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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
The Ethics of Cheating
    #6879487 - 05/06/07 08:46 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

A study of graduate university students has found a that a lot of them anonymously self-reported routinely cheating on exams and buying term papers from online sources to submit as their own.

Follow up studies found that these same students later in life self-reported cheating in their professional and personal lives.

It seems to me that when one finds himself immersed in a society of cheaters, honesty becomes a liability, not a virtue.

Say, for example, that everyone around you cheats by exactly $1,000 on their tax return every year and they all get away with it. If you're honest on your taxes, at the end of the year, you'll be effectively out $1,000, relative to your peers. That's like a vacation everyone else went on that you couldn't afford.

In this scenario, would it be ethical for you to join in on the $1,000 yearly theft or would ethics still bind you to honesty even if all it does is make you effectively $1,000 poorer?

Can ethics be absolute or is it relative to your surroundings?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinehummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch
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Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 327
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879551 - 05/06/07 09:34 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Personally, It matters diddley squat what others are doing, ethics is a personal matter of choice. I can choose to cheat on an exam, taxes, in business; or I can choose to not cheat -(which I do)

At the end of the day, what matters to me is how I feel about myself and my accomplishment(s).


--------------------
You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: hummermania00]
    #6879558 - 05/06/07 09:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

How would you feel about stealing $1,000 if everyone else was doing it too?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879586 - 05/06/07 10:03 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You are not out anything, nor are you poorer by not getting something you never had -
whether someone else procured it honestly, OR dishonestly....
I also understand that a lot of people would justify their dishonest actions by exclaiming the weak "but, everybody is doing it" excuse....  :rolleyes:

When the IRS notices the cheating, the consequences will be much much worse than the $1000 they got for "free"....
And this would no more make you richer by not having to face the consequences of being dishonest....

(Have you ever noticed that when you take "The IRS" and make it into one word, you get "Theirs".....!??    IRONY....!?  :lol:  )

Cheating on tests is only cheating one's self out of the correct knowledge in one's chosen future trade/career....

I would say the ethics are absolute - at least in these case scenarios....
Even in your post you referred to the wrong choice as being cheating and/or dishonest - because it is....  :smile:    :thumbup:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: hummermania00]
    #6879591 - 05/06/07 10:06 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You're being very vague in my opinion and kind of off topic, the question was clear and I think it must be viewed also from a social context. You saying that: At the end of the day, what matters to me is how I feel about myself and my accomplishment(s). concerns only you and your own mind set.

Getting back to the subject, I think that ethics are relative but still have an importance, it's very hard to tell which is the right thing since there are so many conflicts of interest. What's "good" and constructive for a group of people is destructive for others.
From which point of view are we choosing really to look and analyze this matter?

Morality is something that is capable of malleability, it's something that evolves and changes along with human structure and society's as well as individual's needs. This requires a more complex view on morality not a fixed set of rules.
Ethics and morality as we know that have a small relevance when it comes to understanding human beings in their complexity and diversity.

A big role in considering and setting ethics depend on what other people think. What a kind of society can find as being totally outrageous, some other kind of society can view it as being ethical.
If we choose th adhere to a set on universal ethics we can easily fall into the absolutism trap which in extent might stop us from being able to observe the multitude of factors which have an influence on our lives.

Could it be that the ethics of reciprocity is the one that's getting closer to what could make a system work?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinehummermania00
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Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879605 - 05/06/07 10:22 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
How would you feel about stealing $1,000 if everyone else was doing it too?




Once again, it matters not to me what eveyone else is doing. I am not a lemming. I make choices based on what I feel is the right outcome for me. In this case the right outcome is that I don't cheat.

Here are other scenario's:
- do you cheat your grow partners out of portions of their end? not me.
- do you cheat other family members out of any portion of inheritance left to them? not me.

My personal choice is to not cheat or steal from anyone. If I find a wallet with cash in it, the rightful owner will get it back. If I find cash loose, with no attachment to anyone then it is fairly mine.

For me it is all about a choice I make. If I say (to myself) that "everyone" else is doing it, I am simply justifying that choice so that I can avoid my own negative feelings about making a decision that I know I would not otherwise make.


--------------------
You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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Invisiblegoobler
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879606 - 05/06/07 10:23 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I would not cheat, goes against my core values that I hold important to myself


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Offlinehummermania00
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Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6879613 - 05/06/07 10:30 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So, 1 person thinks it is ethical, or sees nothing wrong with rape and murder.
Does that mean everyone can now join in?


--------------------
You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879615 - 05/06/07 10:32 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

It seems to me that when one finds himself immersed in a society of cheaters, honesty becomes a liability, not a virtue.

Only if financial gain is your sole system of measuring value.

I find my personal sense of character, integrity and congruence to be more valuable than money or possessions. To compromise (lose) that sense would be far more costly than $1,000 (or even $1,000,000) gained by lying.

Others obviously do not see their integrity as valuable.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: hummermania00]
    #6879622 - 05/06/07 10:37 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hummermania00 said:
So, 1 person thinks it is ethical, or sees nothing wrong with rape and murder.
Does that mean everyone can now join in?




I mean everything is relative, read my post again :rolleyes:
Murder can be very well justified in many reasons, one if them is self defense.
What about euthanasia? Personally I consider it (in some cases) a lot more ethical then just leaving a person in total suffering or prolonged coma.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinehummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch
Male


Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6879627 - 05/06/07 10:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

hummermania00 said:
So, 1 person thinks it is ethical, or sees nothing wrong with rape and murder.
Does that mean everyone can now join in?




I mean everything is relative, read my post again :rolleyes:
Murder can be very well justified in many reasons, one if them is self defense.
What about euthanasia? Personally I consider it (in some cases) a lot more ethical then just leaving a person in total suffering or prolonged coma.




I agree with you completly on the self-defense and euthansaia.

What I don't agree with is that ethics can be measured on a sliding scale.


--------------------
You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6879630 - 05/06/07 10:42 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If everything is relative, then wouldn't the morality of rape be relative, too?

Is it always wrong for one human to force sexual intercourse on another human?

If so, then morality is NOT relative. If not, why not?

Then we take it back to Diploid's example--cheating on your taxes. Is it wrong? Under what circumstances, or from whose moral standpoint, would it be right?

Where do we draw the lines for ourselves and others, if everything is relative?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: goobler]
    #6879648 - 05/06/07 10:53 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

goobler said:
I would not cheat, goes against my core values that I hold important to myself



:thumbup:

Just like I maintain a work ethic, even if my co-workers are slacking off.


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Veritas]
    #6879691 - 05/06/07 11:10 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yes only that there a HUGE difference between the use of common sense and ethics.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6879699 - 05/06/07 11:12 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"Yes" to which question?

Could you elaborate on the difference you see between the application of "common sense" and that of ethical or moral decision-making?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6879743 - 05/06/07 11:31 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Murder can be very well justified in many reasons, one if them is self defense.




If it is self defense, it isn't murder....   
Murder has the distinct characteristic of being unlawful....
(unless I am just misinterpreting your words again....!)  :lol:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #6879749 - 05/06/07 11:33 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, it would be more general (and less legalistic) to say "killing another human" rather than "murder."

There are some situations in which killing another human would be ethically correct, but none in which murder would be correct.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Veritas]
    #6879781 - 05/06/07 11:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly....  :thumbup:

I think that I am also being overly critical of MushroomTrip's choice of words for some reason this morning....  :sherlock:
She prolly~ intended to mean "killing" rather than "murder" in the first place....    :smile:

***repeats to myself ten times***
"lighten up doood"   

:tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879795 - 05/06/07 11:44 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

In raw evolutionary terms, not cheating when you have high confidence in your ability to get away with it puts you at an evolutionary disadvantage?

Agree or disagree?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Posts: 10,662
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Re: The Ethics of Cheating [Re: Diploid]
    #6879820 - 05/06/07 11:52 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I remain to true to myself, not to societies laws and definitions. To discuss the ethics of cheating one must define cheating. As far as cheating on University exams and papers...well your only cheating yourself in that case.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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