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Offlineporcupine
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why is paedophilia so common?
    #5985703 - 08/22/06 03:47 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

why is it that some people find their primary sexual interest is children?


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Offlinekoppie
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5985731 - 08/22/06 04:21 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It's actually quite rare, but every case (real or suspected) gets enormous amounts of sensationalist news coverage.

But why people are that way? I don't know. Some people like granny porn, some people like furry costumes, some people like children.

Perhaps when they were kids themselves their sexuality was so repressed that they're trying to catch up what they were missing (or what they think they were missing) the rest of their lives.


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: koppie]
    #5985769 - 08/22/06 05:00 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koppie said:
It's actually quite rare, but every case (real or suspected) gets enormous amounts of sensationalist news coverage.




i don't know how we are defining rare but according to wikipedia:

The extent to which pedophilia occurs is not known with any certainty. Some studies have concluded that at least a quarter of all adult men may have some feelings of sexual arousal in connection with children.[28] A study by Hall et al. of Kent State University, for example, found that 32.5% of their sample — 80 adult male volunteers, 20% of whom reported some attraction to prepubescent girls — exhibited sexual arousal to heterosexual pedophilic stimuli that equaled or exceeded their arousal to the adult stimuli.[29] Freund et al. (1972) remarked that "with males who have no deviant object preferences, clearly positive sexual reactions occur to [nude] 6- to 8-year old female children."[30]

In 1989 Briere and Runtz conducted a study on 193 male undergraduate students concerning pedophilia. Of the sample, 21% acknowledged sexual attraction to some small children; 9% reported sexual fantasies involving children; 5% admitted masturbating to these fantasies; and 7% conceded some probability of actually having sex with a child if they could avoid detection and punishment. These sexual interests were associated with negative early sexual experiences, masturbation to pornography, self-reported likelihood of raping a woman, frequent sex partners, and attitudes supportive of sexual dominance over women. The authors also noted that "given the probable social undesirability of such admissions, [one could] hypothesize that the actual rates ... were even higher."



so if 7% admitted some probability of having sex with a child, that doesn't sound all that rare to me. that means there are probably even paedophiles who post on these forums.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5985797 - 08/22/06 05:22 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I always thought pedophilia meant any one under 18 (legal age). Biblical age is 13 I think, and 13 is still legal age to marry in some cultures if I'm not mistaken. So I guess pedophilia is basically flirting with youngsters who are too young to have any kind of sexual response whatsoever?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5985805 - 08/22/06 05:29 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

well, thats one definition but im talking more about pedophilia in the sense of molesting actual children (like people under 10). 18 is simply the legal definition i think, i mean there would be nothing pedophilic about me finding a 17 year old girl attractive even though im 22. you could argue a relationship between us would be innappropriate but i think its a wholy different thing to find a 5 year old girl sexually attractive and have your main sexual interest lie in children that age.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5985808 - 08/22/06 05:37 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

If I may Go out on a limb I'd like to say that I thought Mrs. Ramsey a hot number. I don't know the facts of the matter but ley's say there was some pedophile tensions within the family. I'm not judging anyone but there could have been a jealousy that led to that death. What do you think?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Invisiblerod
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5985809 - 08/22/06 05:38 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
why is it that some people find their primary sexual interest is children?




powertrip.
easier to control children, versus adults.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5985810 - 08/22/06 05:40 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
So I guess pedophilia is basically flirting with youngsters who are too young to have any kind of sexual response whatsoever?




Even babies respond to sexual stimuli. In virtually any child with sufficiently developed language skills (unless, as so often happens, said child is taught something equivalent to the "sex is dirty" mantra) Sexual interest can be found. Hell, erections have been witnessed in utero.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: rod]
    #5985811 - 08/22/06 05:40 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

You think Jonbennet couldn't be pulling a powertrip?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Offlinextiml
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is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5985843 - 08/22/06 06:17 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

it is not "common"usually it is the unexpected source which baffles us.and trhere are different types or distinctions.. But the main turn on for them is playing with the innocence of a chold and acting what in their mind is seductively to them ,( the sadistic is in a whole new category and as it is paedophilia has a inherent sadistic component to it, but i mean the killers ) the source is often a family member,usually the parents let the charming sociopath intrude into an assumed position of trust not even thinking of such a thing. an aduklt that displays an unwarented desire to get the kids out from supervision or devising ways to get them away from adulyts is of course suspect.being friendly to kids is not a sighn of paedophilia, overly familiar and scheming ways may be.the worst thing is to think it wont happen.after the adult behaviour pattern is formed it is nearly impossible to extiguish.15 year old's are not children and if they do let an adult goof around it may be indicative of a idiot adult and a curious adolescent.and thats the favorite age of some people, and lately heard women put in prison for it. i dont think the dynamics warrant this.and to step further into the mud , the male as the supoposed initiator is and seeker is usually accused rightly of seduction when the girl is 14 or 15 but that is not paedophilia.some males ewhen left alone with an infant put their penis into its mouth, amongst other things. it a not very nice topic but parents sjhould be aware of adults who express over interest in children. 13 and under. around there.oh neve,mind. also it is a self perpetuating behaviour in that kids then go on to reapeat it to other kids when they are adults, not all do by any neabs abd it is up to them not to perpetuate it in themselves , thats howw to stop, repetition just makes the behaviour stronger.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: is paedophilia so common? [Re: xtiml]
    #5985848 - 08/22/06 06:23 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Where do you get this stuff from?

Quote:

xtiml said:
.some males ewhen left alone with an infant put their penis into its mouth,




--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineRoker
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Re: is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5985916 - 08/22/06 06:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

as far as I know it is pretty rare - the natural instinct is to protect the young, but there are some african tribes where ongoing child abuse is part of the culture - much like genital mutilation has become an intergenerational practice among semitic and northern african tribes. These primitive rites are very strongly defended by their practitioners but it is child abuse none the less (most mutilation takes place between infancy and the onset of puberty).


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5986152 - 08/22/06 11:18 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
I don't know the facts of the matter but ley's say there was some pedophile tensions within the family. I'm not judging anyone but there could have been a jealousy that led to that death. What do you think?




I think you simply do not know the facts of the matter. :smirk:

You are aware that they found the man who expressed that he committed the ("accidental") murder in Thailand, right? He just arrived back in the States and is awaiting trial. It was her school teacher. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5986254 - 08/22/06 11:54 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, you can accept what you're told while reserving judgment. Do you think the facts of the matter are known by the 'Spirit World'? And why would there be a division between the World of Spirit and the World of Incarnation anyway?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5987071 - 08/22/06 06:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

"I'd like to say that I thought Mrs. Ramsey a hot number"

Yeah, but I wouldn't get her too hot...she's been dead for 6 months now.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflinePed
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5988179 - 08/23/06 12:19 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I may never live this down, but I, "Ped", have found myself sexually attracted to children before. Youngest was 10. I was 18. Did I act on it? Of course not. Did anybody get hurt? Nope. Am I a bad person? I don't think so.

I think it's a perfectly normal and natural part of our sexuality. It's when people start acting on those feelings that problems arise. Why is this so? It's because children have not yet come to terms with their own sexuality, and this is a growth process which is vulnerable to interruption should they have sexual experiences, especially negative ones, prematurely. That being said, I think it's important to point out that while it's true children lack the intellectual and emotional capacity to handle the complicated nature of a sexual relationship, it's adults who have made sexuality such a convoluted issue in the first place. The problem is dependent-related. This needs to be recognized.

We are all sexual beings, even children. Sure, our sexuality isn't fully expressed until a certain biological process has reached it's denouement, but that alone is not a cause for these paranoid taboos that exist in our society. The revulsion to sexual feelings about children, as well as the obsession some people develop with those feelings: both of these are equally indicative of a profound and extremely problematic cultural insecurity about the natural and wholly beautiful sexual dimension of being alive.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
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Edited by Ped (08/23/06 12:30 AM)


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Ped]
    #5988232 - 08/23/06 12:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


I may never live this down, but I, "Ped", have found myself sexually attracted to children before. Youngest was 10. I was 18. Did I act on it? Of course not. Did anybody get hurt? Nope. Am I a bad person? I don't think so.




i still think this is different from peadophila. you see, men are attracted to the female form and in some cases anything that resembles a female form (for example drawings, statues, etc). a 10 year old girl isn't fully developed but she's "close enough" to arouse the sexual interest. to me, what characterizers peadophilia is having your main sexual interest lie in children and to actually prefer the undeveloped child figure to the adult figure.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Ped]
    #5988346 - 08/23/06 01:17 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I've sometimes looked at young girls and thought "She's going to grow up to be beautiful," which may be a sort of socialized filter in my brain to avoid directly admitting to finding them attratractive.


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OfflineRoker
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5988747 - 08/23/06 06:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

getting the hots for kids is a sure sign your wirings screwy or you've got too much time on your hands - get a job or join the army.

Thinking a pretty girl is going to grow into a beautiful woman isn't paedophillia any more than thinking that if your gf's mom is hot chances are so will your gf when she gets to that age (and if she's an old bag - run like fuck!)


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Offlinekoppie
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Roker]
    #5988786 - 08/23/06 08:01 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Roker said:
getting the hots for kids is a sure sign your wirings screwy or you've got too much time on your hands - get a job or join the army.





That would make a great recruiting poster:

Join the army,because society is better off when psychotic perverts have been properly trained in how to kill their fellow human beings.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5988909 - 08/23/06 10:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Yeah, you can accept what you're told while reserving judgment. Do you think the facts of the matter are known by the 'Spirit World'? And why would there be a division between the World of Spirit and the World of Incarnation anyway?




Not sure what it is that you are talking about. :shrug:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Roker]
    #5988950 - 08/23/06 11:01 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

getting the hots for kids is a sure sign your wirings screwy or you've got too much time on your hands

Getting the hots for a PREPUBESCENT kid is a sure sign your wiring's screwy.

Getting the hots for a 13 year old with boobs who's been menstruating for a year is nature asserting itself.

Whether or not you should act on those feelings is another matter. Many people don't want to hear this, but truth is truth.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Diploid]
    #5989101 - 08/23/06 12:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Don't get me started about 13 year old girls. :laugh:


--------------------
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5989610 - 08/23/06 04:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

Having worked with adolescents for the last 20 years, this relatively new word - ephebophilia - is particularly relevant. I have explored any personal attraction to adolescents in analysis and in fantasy, and fortunately for me, I do not seem to have any. Now, sexually aggressive high school adolescents have always caused me some disturbance. Almost every time I've visited a high school, some girl has singled ME out - has literally walked into me, then met me at the door after school (a perfect stranger), or I've been shamelessly flirted with. I've also been pushed into a corner by a junior high school 9th grade girl and told "I have needs!" I've walked into my room to find a junior high school girl sprawling on her back on my desk, another one lying down on the floor and tossing around long red hair from a wig she was wearing. One girl jumped up on a table, lay down in front of me and asked if I'd go out with her "...if my tits were bigger?" I've had junior high girls become hookers only to return years later to leave 'calling cards' and condom wrappers to solicit me as a new John. None of these behaviors have ever aroused me.

Now, I've had a 20 something former stripper turned middle school teacher who pushed me into the bathroom at my last school and came onto me. She also met me at my car after school and asked me if I wanted her to come home and turn my Lady on. THAT turned me on and I drove into my garage 25 minutes later with major wood and a s**t-eating smile that made my Lady ask immediately "What happened?"

The psychiatric literature surrounding pedophilia is extensive and well known. Watch a Law & Order show on TV with Special Victim's Unit and pay attention to the psychiatrist. Watch the news this week and listen to the recordings about the man involved in the Jon Bennet Ramsey case of 10 years ago. He was obviously infatuated and turned on by a 5 year old in full makeup, veiled hat, who could wiggle her hips, sashay and wink at her audience like a Vegas showgirl. Such an act is an obscenity (it seems that her mom died of ovarian cancer. Karma I suppose). The practice of training a prepubescent child to don fetishistic apparel, wear makeup that males associate with glamour, and move in provocative ways that the child could only imitate but not comprehend is sick, and those with insufficient detachment to such a spectacle are likewise sick. Hell, I was worried when the animated android on 'Tripping the Rift,' replete with bouncy animated breasts caused me arousal, but I inwardly would refuse to admit sexual impulses to manifest in the presence of a child. But obviously, that's just me. 'It would be better for one if a millstone were hung around one's neck and be thrown into the sea to drown than to harm one of these little ones.' (paraphrase Luke 17:2)


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Diploid]
    #5989617 - 08/23/06 04:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Getting the hots for a 13 year old == Ephebophilia

Getting the hots for a PREPUBESCENT kid == Pedophilia


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Ped]
    #5989648 - 08/23/06 04:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
I think it's a perfectly normal and natural part of our sexuality. It's when people start acting on those feelings that problems arise. Why is this so? It's because children have not yet come to terms with their own sexuality, and this is a growth process which is vulnerable to interruption should they have sexual experiences, especially negative ones, prematurely.




Gods, does nobody remember their childhood but me? It seemed like every kid on the block would accept, if offered, random sex. It was the most sexually free and active (away from the eyes of adults/apart from the kids brought up by asshat adults) time of my life. Nobody I know regrets it, to my knowledge. (Of those that will admit it)

Quote:

Ped said:
That being said, I think it's important to point out that while it's true children lack the intellectual and emotional capacity to handle the complicated nature of a sexual relationship, it's adults who have made sexuality such a convoluted issue in the first place. The problem is dependent-related. This needs to be recognized.

We are all sexual beings, even children. Sure, our sexuality isn't fully expressed until a certain biological process has reached it's denouement, but that alone is not a cause for these paranoid taboos that exist in our society. The revulsion to sexual feelings about children, as well as the obsession some people develop with those feelings: both of these are equally indicative of a profound and extremely problematic cultural insecurity about the natural and wholly beautiful sexual dimension of being alive.




Damned straight!


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5989723 - 08/23/06 04:53 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
'It would be better for one if a millstone were hung around one's neck and be thrown into the sea to drown than to harm one of these little ones.' (paraphrase Luke 17:2)




At the risk of incurring more wrathfull ratings I'm going to disagree with your interpretation of Luke 17:2.

"2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." is the King James version if I'm not mistaken; and 'offending' a child covers a lot more ground than simple rape. Offending a child can happen when one refusesto discuss sex with them should they inquire. Offending a child can happen when we try to fit them into a cookie-mould existence of one-size fits all. in my opinion.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5989748 - 08/23/06 05:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, one of the references was about prohibiting a child to come to Christ. The Biblical reference was not about sexual molestation at all. I was adapting it to the harm of a child, and paraphrasing rather than quoting. Nevertheless, the sexual abuse of a child will in all liklihood destroy or severely damage the ability to trust in a child, thereby destroying the child-like openness that is likened to the Kingdom of Heaven.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5989754 - 08/23/06 05:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Abuse period; sexual, psychological, physical...


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But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5989760 - 08/23/06 05:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
destroying the child-like openness that is likened to the Kingdom of Heaven.




Let us count the ways society destroys child-like openess.


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Let it not be remembered
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But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineTelepylus
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dishonesty and evil is common [Re: Booby]
    #5989797 - 08/23/06 05:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

pedophilia is just a sexual dysfunction, like other sexual dysfunctions that i won't name because many are social acceptable, and i don't want to start a war here.

it's just dishonesty, that's all.
it's fixation on one kind of sex.
children are beautiful, so are men and women, don't fixate on things, because it leads to dysfunctions.

there are two kinds of pedophiles, the kind that seek control and want to abuse and inflict savage harm, like a rapist.
then there are the kinds of pedophiles who actually love children and wish to make sweet love to them.

both of these are forms of dishonesty.

because anybody who really cares about children (or people) knows that this is not assisting the childs life.
an honest person seeks to help life out, to raise children properly to know right from wrong.
a dishonest person is selfish and concerned with his own life rather than anybody elses.

some children want to be touched inappropriately, but they also might think they want to throw rocks at ducks, or eat pounds of chocolate.
this doesn't mean it's healthy to give it to them.

pedophilia is the hand of the devil, and it has totally destroyed our civilization beyond any chance of repair.

in america, if you are a man who honestly loves children, and you want to teach them ABC's, or enjoy them.
you will be called a pedophile.
and this calling an innocent protecter of children evil, is just as evil as the pedophiles.
so now, males are totally cut off from children altogether.
unless they have their own of course, and still, 90% of the fathers i meet, don't even want their kids.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: dishonesty and evil is common [Re: Telepylus]
    #5989936 - 08/23/06 06:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
there are two kinds of pedophiles




Just like there is more then one attitude about sex between adults, there is more then one kind of pedophile.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
some children want to be touched inappropriately, but they also might think they want to throw rocks at ducks, or eat pounds of chocolate.
this doesn't mean it's healthy to give it to them.




Your definition of inappropriate is based on cultural norms which have rather little basis in reality. There is a difference between eating craploads of sugar, harming other life, and having sex. Sex is not inherently harmful, and in fact may help prevent violence in a society.

Most know this. I regret most of the crap I ate purely for flavor as a child, yet I regret none of my sexual experiences (save for the ones the restrictive adults at the time saw). I do believe, that both for me and others, being more open about sex, and having less taboo sex is a good thing. I am backed up by violent crime rates in areas where kiddie sex is not taboo.

http://almapintada.puellula.com/index.html
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/GUS_MAIN_INDEX.HTM

Quote:

Telepylus said:
pedophilia is the hand of the devil, and it has totally destroyed our civilization beyond any chance of repair.




If so, then according to the evidence, the only solution is to immediately de-tabooify child sexuality, thus reducing/eliminating pedophilia.

Encourage your kids to exploratory sex today!

This religious hatred of physical pleasure is worse then crazy/ignorant. It's stupid.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (08/23/06 06:35 PM)


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5989950 - 08/23/06 06:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
destroying the child-like openness that is likened to the Kingdom of Heaven.




Quote:

Booby said:
Let us count the ways society destroys child-like openess.




Ratings for 1, wouldn't you agree?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Ped]
    #5990237 - 08/23/06 08:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

"i may never live this down, but i have been sexually aroused by a child"

bravo ped, A for honesty. I think it is a sign of human maturity to recognize that each of our minds contains a great deal more than what we allow it to actualize in the physical world. Almost all of us has at some point fantasized about murdering someone or attacking someone who had wronged us, but we restrain those feelings. similarly, many of us would secretly admit to have had thoughts of rape. Few males can honestly say he wouldnt hypothetically like to grab any hot woman he wants and freely have sex with her, without asking or having to consider her wants/feelings.

But the sign of a mature human is being able to recognize that although we have certain impulses, we need to control them. Being able to both acknowledge and control our impulses is a sign of wisdom and strength.

Or something.

Peace


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Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5990287 - 08/23/06 08:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, and your point is? Being made suspicious and even paranoid is one thing but destroying a soul is of another order of evil. I've been at a workshop with Dr. Fred Berlin, who has been on '60 Minutes' more than once over the years. After the lunch break, about 1/4 of the room stood up - convicted, imprisoned, released pedophiles sitting among us students and clinicians. I was shocked like the other normal people. Some gave their testimonies and descriptions of the painstakingly slow introduction to sex with 6 and 7 year olds. Any psychologist using methods of progressive behavioral modification would be amateurs compared to the methods of some pedophiles. After they were done, little boys and girls would avidly offer their little bodies in every manner of sexual variation for sweets, toy, gifts. They had been turned into tiny polymorphously perverse prostitutes by the second grade. When these individuals left the seminar, some insipid clinicians voiced heartfelt thanks. I'll not forget the expression of total contempt on the face of one of these court-mandated participating perverts as he left the room. I could imagine him thinking: 'Listen to these f**king ass***es thanking me for being a convicted child molestor!'

I'm not a parent, but I think Dr. Berlin's work with the drug Depoprivera was too tame. The child molestors just need to be castrated, plain and simple. It's the only Islamic Shariah-like law I would subscribe to. 'If your eye offends you, pluck it out' - or we'll do it for you only it won't be your eye!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5990422 - 08/23/06 08:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

it works like this

sex is sacred
are you disagreeing that sex is sacred?

life is sacred

nothing you do in this world matters as much as securing the future of the human race

this means raising children properly

i've worked with alot of abuse victims in my day
and most children (not all but most) who have been sexually molested in their youth, they develop alot of strange ideas about what sex is,
they develop ideas that it's not sacred
that it's not important to life and the future of the human race

so they go on to hurt other people, and to spread this dishonesty-

family unity is the only remedy to the world's problems
and having sex with kids isn't a remedy

sure i can agree, to help your kids explore their sexuality
as long as there is a firm understanding of what sex is HONESTLY

it's sacred to Life, and should be bound to Love

i'm making a generalization when i say pedophilia is the hand of the devil, because 99.9999% of the time it's destructive and dangerous, it disrespects children, womanhood, life, and all that is sacred and honest.

if you really love children, as i do, then you want to help them grow and experience the goodness and wholesomeness of things in the world.
you want to protect their innocence and purity as long as possible.

i'm glad there is some honesty in this thread, men unafraid to announce their attraction to children.
kids are beautiful, and i believe it should be de-tabooized.
because the fear factor is equally destructive to our society.

an honest person enjoys children
a dishonest person fixates on the joy children bring them
and they go too far sometimes

sex is sacred, and should be generally reserved for those bound by Holy Matrimony.

arousal can be healthy too.
but, do you think with your heart, and your soul, and can you control your urges?
or do you think with your cock, and that is all that matters?

if a person is wise, and wholesome, and honest, and good, and right, basically they can do whatever they want.
but the problem is our society is not filled with wise, wholesome, honest, upright people
therefore, you go to prison if you try to be intimate with children.
AS IT SHOULD BE.


if you want to touch a child, then you make sure it's okay with the parents first, and the child- then you don't have anything to worry about do you?

the thing is, no parents, and no children want to be touched by some gross old man.

have you ever got drunk and fucked an ugly fat chick?
at first maybe you thought you wanted it
just like a child might think they want it

but the honest truth is NO, nobody wants that
so leave it alone

it ain't fittin'
it just ain't fittin'


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Offlineinsectvhore
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5990472 - 08/23/06 09:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i dont think its all that common, though i get called one a lot >_< because i like this 17 year old girl..thats ephebophilia though, and in canada (among other places) would be perfectly legal, but there seems to be some idea that on midnight of someones 18th birthday they are now able to think for themselves. i dont advocate in any way the abuse of pre-pubescent children, but we've all seen some hawt 15 year olds


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990621 - 08/23/06 09:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
it works like this

sex is sacred
are you disagreeing that sex is sacred?




Abso-fucking-lutely.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
life is sacred




I disagree with this too. Consciousness is sacred, not life. I could care less about life that's not aware of it's on existence.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
i've worked with alot of abuse victims in my day
and most children (not all but most) who have been sexually molested in their youth, they develop alot of strange ideas about what sex is,
they develop ideas that it's not sacred
that it's not important to life and the future of the human race




It's not sacred. It's just illogical to say it's not needed for the continuation of the human race. Aside from that, I've said nothing about molestation. I agree that forced sex is always bad. But I disagree with the concept that children cannot make that decision, which is only loaded with taboo because of the very people that made the laws are ignorant.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
so they go on to hurt other people, and to spread this dishonesty-




I do believe this is only cyclic, (as you would see if you checked out my links) because of the already-present and tremendously unhealthy sexual repression that you apparently believe is good and holy.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
family unity is the only remedy to the world's problems
and having sex with kids isn't a remedy




No, but kids being able to have sex with each other without fear of having done something evil damn well wouldn't hurt (as you would see if you read the links)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
sure i can agree, to help your kids explore their sexuality
as long as there is a firm understanding of what sex is HONESTLY




Sure. And honesty can only occur in an environment where some kinds of knowledge isn't restricted. Otherwise you're telling perverted and distorted half-truths.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
it's sacred to Life, and should be bound to Love




One opinion based on religion, not any rational/empirical system of ethics. (I suppose you could circumvent that claim if you claim that violent societies are superior to peaceable ones.)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
i'm making a generalization when i say pedophilia is the hand of the devil, because 99.9999% of the time it's destructive and dangerous, it disrespects children, womanhood, life, and all that is sacred and honest.




While I do think your numbers are a bit high, it still seems that most of the destructive relationships are part of the repressive cycle. If there was no taboo about sex, and children were taught that they have power to choose their own sexual encounters, I doubt many abusive pedophiles would ever get away.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
if you really love children, as i do, then you want to help them grow and experience the goodness and wholesomeness of things in the world.
you want to protect their innocence and purity as long as possible.




Firstly, I'm not too terrible sure about this cult of "childhood innocence and purity." I've seen/experienced supposedly "innocent" and "pure" children do horrible things (from both sides of the relationship). Secondly, I'm quite sure that healthy sex is included in the category of "goodness and wholesomeness."

Quote:

Telepylus said:
sex is sacred, and should be generally reserved for those bound by Holy Matrimony.




I call that irrational BS. See everything I've posted.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
arousal can be healthy too.
but, do you think with your heart, and your soul, and can you control your urges?
or do you think with your cock, and that is all that matters?




One can't think with both? (regardless of my soul-less status)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
if you want to touch a child, then you make sure it's okay with the parents first, and the child- then you don't have anything to worry about do you?




Nope.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5990625 - 08/23/06 09:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

(separated into two posts because of quote limit)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
the thing is, no parents, and no children want to be touched by some gross old man.




Not sure about the parents, but I'm damn sure there's some kids (like myself) who'd more then happily screw someone like me silly. (BTW, I don't consider myself gross, only really young kids would consider me anything remotely close to old, and I still don't yet consider myself a "man")

Quote:

Telepylus said:
have you ever got drunk and fucked an ugly fat chick?




Nope. Can't see myself doing so either. I never drink enough to lose that much control.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
at first maybe you thought you wanted it
just like a child might think they want it

but the honest truth is NO, nobody wants that
so leave it alone




Have you read anything I've posted? I wanted it, and even years later, still think it was a good thing. Same with most I've spoken with about it (who admit it).

Quote:

Telepylus said:
it ain't fittin'
it just ain't fittin'




You seem to view sex as a very male-centric and penis-centric activity. I've had sex with no penetration whatsoever, and it was still great.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: insectvhore]
    #5990626 - 08/23/06 09:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i'm 35, and my ex-girlfriend was 19
and the one before that was 18

there was nothing dishonest about it
i met the parents and it was fine

i wouldn't be afraid of loving a woman who was 17
but i wouldn't have sex with her unless her parents new it was happening
and i'd want her to marry me and mother my children too.

once a girl, or a boy even, turns 16 or so
they start thinking about life and sex

do you think a 16 year old boy is good for a 16 year old girl?
do you really think he can treat her right?
how can he, when he has no experience with manhood or womanhood?

so there is this period between 15-18 where kids kinda foolishly experiment with others their own age, and it should be that way.
but it rarely turns into anything real.

a boy who is 16, needs an older woman to teach him how to treat a lady.
same with a 17 year old girl, she's not going to learn about life and her womanhood and manhood with some teenage boy.
so there is a conundrum there.


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990636 - 08/23/06 09:47 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Xanthas
i couldn't read the dribble above

when you said sex and life isn't sacred but consciousness is

you lost me

that doesn't even make sense if you understand anything about consciousness, so sorry.


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Invisiblesurf rat
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990662 - 08/23/06 09:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

milfsssssss
yesssss


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990673 - 08/23/06 09:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Is the mosquito sacred?


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990675 - 08/23/06 09:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Life has no inherent value other then to provide a platform for consciousness. Explain how this makes no sense.

Don't call it dribble unless you take the time to actually READ it. Then, instead of insulting without really responding, or even comprehending, you can comment on what I said (I'll take the insults with it, though. I don't care much for false civility)

Edit: You eat? Ever? You're killing things. You should suicide to make way for a greater number of microbes, as well as to cease your consumption of huge numbers of living things for sustenance.

That's the reason I can eat. I place no inherent value on life, only consciousness. Thus, my consciousness can justifiably consume that which is mere life.


Edited by Xanthas (08/23/06 10:25 PM)


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990709 - 08/23/06 10:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Why can't a person learn about their "manhood or womanhood" from someone their own age? Why do you feel that a "mature" person should do this. That is a huge miscarriage of logic...that young people cannot learn about their sexuality from those their own age? Why is such experimentation foolish? It is at least honest. There is a lot of justification going on here. Why do you need a self percieved moral high ground to have a relationship with an 18 year old? They are an adult. What does "treat her right" mean? Young people of 16 to 18 years have all been socialized as to how to address other humans. They do not need horny old guys to do it further. Your justifications are suspicious...that fact that you need them to engage in relationships with younger adults indicates conflict. Why the guilt? I have no prob with age differences, but I suspect that you do. In any case there is no logic in what you stated on this subject. Adult humans are adult humans no matter the age. No one needs anyone to give them sex as some sort of half assed lesson from a superior human.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineinsectvhore
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5990736 - 08/23/06 10:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

learn about you man/womanhood from your own family!


i had to post this cause its too ridiculous..
and for you arguing about what is sacred. theres no such thing as 'sacred' its just your own subjective thoughts about what is sacred/taboo to yourself. nothing universal about it


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5990752 - 08/23/06 10:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
once a girl, or a boy even, turns 16 or so
they start thinking about life and sex




Gods.... Nobody remembers their childhood? Maybe it's just 'cause I'm relatively young. I (and numerous friends) started thinking about life and sex far, far earlier. Some of my earliest memories were of sexual experimentation. It was fun, non-coerced, and not suggested, that I can remember, by anyone else.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
do you think a 16 year old boy is good for a 16 year old girl?
do you really think he can treat her right?




Sure.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
how can he, when he has no experience with manhood or womanhood?




Kindness, understanding, tenderness, and compassion are not only traits of elders. Such thinking is profoundly ignorant and blind.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
so there is this period between 15-18 where kids kinda foolishly experiment with others their own age, and it should be that way.
but it rarely turns into anything real.




Hate to disappoint you, but it starts way earlier.
Childish emotions may be short-lived, but it doesn't completely invalidate them. I've loved things/people as a child. Experience/age enriches/prolongs the experience, but I still think people underestimate the potential of a child's emotions.

If childish emotions really don't count for much, then what's ever the problem of abuse? They'd bounce back. Or (from your world view) sex, as it can't hurt that much, a child's emotions are short-lived and easily manipulated by the older and wiser.

Just because it doesn't last for years, doesn't mean it's not real then. It doesn't need to turn into anything to be real.

That's a sick attitude.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
a boy who is 16, needs an older woman to teach him how to treat a lady.
same with a 17 year old girl, she's not going to learn about life and her womanhood and manhood with some teenage boy.




Bwahahahaha.... Um... No? It may help, but it's really not needed.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
so there is a conundrum there.




Sounds like you're trying to justify walking the line of what you view to be a negative cycle you're helping to perpetuate.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: insectvhore]
    #5990763 - 08/23/06 10:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

insectvhore said:
learn about you man/womanhood from your own family!


i had to post this cause its too ridiculous..
and for you arguing about what is sacred. theres no such thing as 'sacred' its just your own subjective thoughts about what is sacred/taboo to yourself. nothing universal about it




Wow. People so in fear of breaking some sort of moral code they can't even be nude in front of their children to teach basic anatomy.

Nice find. Or horrible, depending.  :grin:


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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Offlineinsectvhore
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5990800 - 08/23/06 10:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i find it hilarious that the daughter is grabbing her dad's cock

on the subject of pedophilia though, i disagree with it, having sex with a pre-pubescent person cannot be justified by any means, however, ephebophilia (post-pubescence) is perfectly fine in my mind, even if she/he is 11, if they are pubescent, i see no wrong as long as it isnt forced..and nobody better say shit about they cant decide what they want, im 23 and cant decide for myself, i make mistakes, i live with them. as long as no one is being tricked, coerced, manipulated, or forced the age makes no difference as long as the biological process has begun.

fucking morality of some people...


oh yeah, the mom is pretty hawt too


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: insectvhore]
    #5990818 - 08/23/06 10:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Why does puberty matter if sexual desire is already present? Does puberty automatically make one more responsible/less easily manipulated? I would argue the exact opposite.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5991060 - 08/23/06 11:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Because, numbnuts, there is the reality of 'infant sexuality.' Infants masturbate and Freud exposed the obvious by the year 1900 to Western society. I have talked to cops in my line of work about sexual battery and it's resultant murder, on infants. If I were you (and I'm not) I would take your issues to psychotherapy before you increase someone else's suffering. How little you know, yet how loud you crow.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5991092 - 08/23/06 11:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Because, numbnuts, there is the reality of 'infant sexuality.' Infants masturbate and Freud exposed the obvious by the year 1900 to Western society.




Indeed. But who said anything about infants? That wasn't the question.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I have talked to cops in my line of work about sexual battery and it's resultant murder, on infants.




Somehow, to me, murder seems to harm one party, thus making the encounter wrong. There are some things which physically can't happen without harm, and, therefore, shouldn't. Namely, as you said, what I assume to be rough sex with infants.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
If I were you (and I'm not) I would take your issues to psychotherapy before you increase someone else's suffering. How little you know, yet how loud you crow.




Where did you get the idea that I'm an infantophile/pedophile? I'm not, numbnuts.

Learn to read.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (08/23/06 11:59 PM)


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5991095 - 08/23/06 11:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Why can't a person learn about their "manhood or womanhood" from someone their own age? Why do you feel that a "mature" person should do this. That is a huge miscarriage of logic...that young people cannot learn about their sexuality from those their own age? Why is such experimentation foolish? It is at least honest. There is a lot of justification going on here. Why do you need a self percieved moral high ground to have a relationship with an 18 year old? They are an adult. What does "treat her right" mean? Young people of 16 to 18 years have all been socialized as to how to address other humans. They do not need horny old guys to do it further. Your justifications are suspicious...that fact that you need them to engage in relationships with younger adults indicates conflict. Why the guilt? I have no prob with age differences, but I suspect that you do. In any case there is no logic in what you stated on this subject. Adult humans are adult humans no matter the age. No one needs anyone to give them sex as some sort of half assed lesson from a superior human.




first of all,
sound ideas of what womanhood is, needs to start at birth
and manhood is something that is only measured in it's relation to womanhood.

young people who understand womanhood, can do whatever they want, that's perfect.
trouble is, very few people understand what womanhood is.
so there is confusion in what i'm saying, first because i'm drawing from my own personal experiences.
i became sexually active at 15, and i knew a few virgins in my time.
sadly, it wasn't until i was 18 and met a woman who was 35, that i actually learned how to fuck a woman correctly.
to the misfortune of my young girlfriends who had to be devirginized by a fool who didn't really know how a pussy worked.
and young teenage girls in love usually won't say "no" or "i like this" or "i like that" because they mostly just want to be in love, etc..
i know it's not like this all over the world, but very typical among american youth, with parents who don't raise them properly.

also, i have more to offer any 18 yr old girl, more than some teenage boy, and that's a fact, in my region anyway, in my experience, where i live- i know it's not like that all over the world, but kinda.

and, basically, i would want my teenage daughter to experiment with boys her own age, but i definately trust her in the hands of a real man who is secure and honors womanhood, rather than some teenage wigger full of angst.
that's all i was sayin'. makes sense? in my neighborhood anyways.

most of what you say is too trivial for me to try and defend, for example you said "why is experimentation foolish if it is honest?"
of course i already said, anything that is honest is pure and holy.
my point is, you don't find abundant honesty in teenagers, that's all.
at least not where i come from. i'm generalizing.

xanthas-
consciousness and life and sex are intrinsically bound together.
even the consciousness inherent in water and stone is bound to human consciousness ie. life and sex.
not to mention consciousness itself is made from the singularity, polarity, and trinity, which always implies the male/female or positive and negative. and more accurately the Man, Woman, and Child, who are actually One Being if you know anything about human consciousness.

you also said "why does puberty matter if sexual desire is present?"

well, when you become honest with who you are, and your consciousness, and womanhood, you'll realize that sex is bound to something called LIFE. and although sex is fun, it's even way better when you realize that it makes babies. and even still, some 11 year old girls can get pregnant and have babies. doesn't mean their ready to meet with those lessons yet. and especially not with some common fool who just thinks about sex as coming and coming.
you can wear a condom, you don't have to have children if you don't want, but you do need to understand that that is what sex is for, otherwise you're defiling womanhood, and your ancestors.
and yea, kids, even 19, in my town, are way less responsible and much easier manipulated than middle aged woman. (generally)


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5991157 - 08/24/06 12:19 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
xanthas-
consciousness and life and sex are intrinsically bound together.
even the consciousness inherent in water and stone is bound to human consciousness ie. life and sex.
not to mention consciousness itself is made from the singularity, polarity, and trinity, which always implies the male/female or positive and negative. and more accurately the Man, Woman, and Child, who are actually One Being if you know anything about human consciousness.




I know quite a bit about consciousness, but you're talking to an atheist who possesses as few superstitions as possible. From any halfway empirical/rational perspective, what you just said is nonsense, unless it's metaphor.

Consciousness is bound to life. But that doesn't make life any more valuable relative to consciousness any more then the ground is valuable relative to someone's home. (disregarding concepts of the ground having a "spirit" or somesuch)

If you think so, explain why in terms that don't involve things that can't be seen, heard, smelled, touched, tasted, felt, or generally sensed in any way other then those which are under some sort of stress/drug (produced internally or otherwise).

Quote:

Telepylus said:
you also said "why does puberty matter if sexual desire is present?"

well, when you become honest with who you are, and your consciousness, and womanhood, you'll realize that sex is bound to something called LIFE.




I am honest with who I am/my consciousness. I am someone who hates superstition, ignorance, and generally all things that they corrupt.

Already understood. However, that relationship is being slowly divorced by modern science, and the two are not as interconnected as you seem to think. Both can, have and often do, occur entirely separate from each other.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
and although sex is fun, it's even way better when you realize that it makes babies.




Already known and disagreed with. Purely opinion.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
and even still, some 11 year old girls can get pregnant and have babies. doesn't mean their ready to meet with those lessons yet. and especially not with some common fool who just thinks about sex as coming and coming.




Agreed. Pregnancy is not for the young. Yet, as I have already said, one doesn't always have to lead to the other.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
you can wear a condom, you don't have to have children if you don't want, but you do need to understand that that is what sex is for




Sex is can be for whatever you want it to be. There is no reliable god-given rule for it.

Quote:

Telepylus said:
otherwise you're defiling womanhood, and your ancestors.




This just makes no sense. Why aren't women who think exactly like me defiling manhood as well? How the hell am I defiling anything by having sex with a willing partner for fun?

Quote:

Telepylus said:
and yea, kids, even 19, in my town, are way less responsible and much easier manipulated than middle aged woman. (generally)




Likely true. So?


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5991243 - 08/24/06 12:51 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

nothing more to add here
but, when you FULLY understand consciousness
you will no longer be an atheist
that's a fact you'll either one day arrive at, or you won't

and just my opinion but, people who have sex for "fun" rather than for love and healing the planet, and honoring the mother and father- they're basically ignorant.
so not sure what you mean when you say you hate ignorance.
simply doesn't add up.
the geometries of what you're saying ain't fittin'.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5991290 - 08/24/06 01:04 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
nothing more to add here
but, when you FULLY understand consciousness
you will no longer be an atheist
that's a fact you'll either one day arrive at, or you won't

and just my opinion but, people who have sex for "fun" rather than for love and healing the planet, and honoring the mother and father- they're basically ignorant.
so not sure what you mean when you say you hate ignorance.
simply doesn't add up.
the geometries of what you're saying ain't fittin'.




So basically, you're just another believer who thinks he knows what rationally/empirically cannot be known and calls me ignorant for not "knowing" what you do?

That's a common tactic among believers. Simply state that the opposition doesn't REALLY understand. You can never be wrong that way. How fundamentalist of you. Weak.

Debating as such, is pointless, because you cannot back up ANYTHING that is based in faith. Hence the definition of faith. The geometries of what you're doing ain't fittin'

Forgive me if I say I will never be convinced. I will always be "unenlightened," if what you say is true. I hate faith. I hate what it does, and I hate it philosophically.

Stop pretending to absolute infallible knowledge.


Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 01:20 AM)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5991616 - 08/24/06 04:25 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Getting the hots for a PREPUBESCENT kid is a sure sign your wiring's screwy.

Getting the hots for a 13 year old with boobs who's been menstruating for a year is nature asserting itself.

Whether or not you should act on those feelings is another matter. Many people don't want to hear this, but truth is truth.




Well said.

:bow:

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
He was obviously infatuated and turned on by a 5 year old in full makeup, veiled hat, who could wiggle her hips, sashay and wink at her audience like a Vegas showgirl. Such an act is an obscenity. The practice of training a prepubescent child to don fetishistic apparel, wear makeup that males associate with glamour, and move in provocative ways that the child could only imitate but not comprehend is sick, and those with insufficient detachment to such a spectacle are likewise sick.




:congrats:

My thoughts exactly.



What really bothers me about this "pedophile issue" is the medias desire to cash in on it.

These "Catch an Internet Predator" shows just bother me to no end. Most, if not all, these men were "talking" to girls who were well into puberty (12-15) and sexually interested in them. The only deception came on the side of the police.

For the American public to believe that teen-agers don't want sex is ridiculous. When I was 14-16 I would have given my left nut to have had sex with an older person. I know people who did and their was no harm done.....to anyone.

How can sex between two consenting, post-puberty people, regardless of their ages, be harmful?

Problems only arise when one person is coerced, bribed or forced into having sex.

For a 13 or 14 year old to want to have sex with an older person is perfectly natural. If they can find an adult that wants to have sex with them, why is that a problem?


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Don't be bogged down by your past
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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5991792 - 08/24/06 07:28 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yeah, and your point is? Being made suspicious and even paranoid is one thing but destroying a soul is of another order of evil.




I wish people would stop bantering 'Evil' about as if it was some kind of mutually understood phenomena.

Evil is simply an obstruction to one's own ends as in the following citation:

"The present is embodied in Hexagram 19 - Lin (Approach): There will be great progress and success, while it will be advantageous to be firmly correct. In the eighth month there will be evil."
http://www.facade.com/iching/personal/?UID=122920&Name=Anonymous&Query=for+knightwulf&Deck=

An obstruction is not 'Evil' in the sense we have all been indoctrinated; so anyone who uses the word is using fear to leverage a weak argument. Congrats Markos?


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That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5991842 - 08/24/06 08:21 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Was the Spanish Inquisition 'Evil' Markos?; because that is the reality you appear to advocate.


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That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5992069 - 08/24/06 11:45 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I really don't get this kick people have about puberty. Someone please explain it? Why does an increase in sex hormone automatically make one better able to handle sex?


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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Offlineinsectvhore
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5992476 - 08/24/06 02:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

"Why does an increase in sex hormone automatically make one better able to handle sex? "

maybe something to do with the increase in sex hormone...


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: insectvhore]
    #5992787 - 08/24/06 04:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

insectvhore said:
maybe something to do with the increase in sex hormone...




Umm... What? A sex hormone is something that causes sexual changes in the body, not a greater ability to handle sexual situations.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5992827 - 08/24/06 04:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think the main problem with a pre-pubescent child having a sexual relationship with an older partner is that it often seems to be coerced, manipulative, etc. Aside from simply experimenting with their body, something they do not need an older partner for, does a pre-pubescent child have any motivation to have sex? It seems to me that this sort of behavior is simply taking advantage of a child, who can probably not defend himself/herself physically or emotionally, and not an mutual relationship. Being taken advantage of as child like this could bloom into personal/psychological problems later on in life.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5992947 - 08/24/06 05:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
I think the main problem with a pre-pubescent child having a sexual relationship with an older partner is that it often seems to be coerced, manipulative, etc.




Ahh, but I challenge this notion. I propose that most people are good, and that simply having pedophilic attractions does not change it. I also propose that more people care about children/their development, and having pedophilic attractions does not change that. I also propose that a more open atmosphere about such adult/child relationships would help to weed out the harmful from the neutral/positive relationships.

Additionally, I lack the confidence some here seem to have that a child who undergoes puberty magically has more control/less potential for malicious manipulation then one young enough to not have undergone that process.


Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Aside from simply experimenting with their body, something they do not need an older partner for, does a pre-pubescent child have any motivation to have sex?




Yes indeedy. I was once, and met, and can still observe, if I cared to, just quite how horny the little munchkins can be, away from adult eyes.

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
It seems to me that this sort of behavior is simply taking advantage of a child, who can probably not defend himself/herself physically or emotionally, and not an mutual relationship. Being taken advantage of as child like this could bloom into personal/psychological problems later on in life.




Quite possible, yet I believe that there will be even lower rates of harmful sexual relationships if it wasn't stigmatized. A parent naturally has a position of power and potential for abuse of a child, yet most parents are kind and loving, doing their best.

There is a huge industry of information on raising kids. It seems natural that there would be a somewhat smaller sector that would give advice/present studies on how adults can, if they so choose, maximize potential benefit/minimize potential harm to a child within such a relationship, were such information not looked upon as an accessory to evil.

Edit: Hmm... Apparently I cause enough dissonance with sound enough arguments, that, unable to be refute logically, some just give me horrible ratings.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 07:29 PM)


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993341 - 08/24/06 07:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

this reminds me of the end of the south park episode about NAMBLA. where the NAMBLA guy starts trying to argue and reason why it should be ok to love young boys and fuckem. then stan interrupts and is like "dude you want to fuck kids, not cool".

basically im saying no matter what kind of argument you are coming up with.. an adult fucking a kid is WRONG. it almost always screws up the kid forever.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993373 - 08/24/06 07:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
basically im saying no matter what kind of argument you are coming up with.. an adult fucking a kid is WRONG. it almost always screws up the kid forever.




The evidence is against you. Reason is against you. You have only a deeply rooted cultural taboo. Look at my above links/posts.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993376 - 08/24/06 07:51 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

ill tell ya where pedophilia comes from. look at the people youve seen who have been pedo. they are almost all really ugly or really "nerdy" looking...people who probably dont meet many women. i dont think ive ever seen a good looking, brad pitt pretty boy who is busted for pedo. there are lots of guys who just cant get laid, EVER. there are men who just couldnt get a woman if they tried. there are tons of fat guys, nerd, etc.. who are virgins well into their 30s, 40s, maybe their whole lives. these people are the ones you see when they bust pedos. its because getting women their own age isnt an option. they dont have the looks or social skills to find a woman to act out sexually with. so they seek out kids because they can control them, dominate them. trick them. they just want someone to be sexual with.

this is why i think you rarely see woman pedos. because just about any woman no matter how gross can get laid of find a guy. they dont have the problems ugly guys do...just cuz any chick can find someone horny enough to stick her.


think about this how many times have u heard someone say "he looks like a pedophile" their definently is a type.


also did u know pedos are less common in the african american community??


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993412 - 08/24/06 07:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
ill tell ya where pedophilia comes from. look at the people youve seen who have been pedo. they are almost all really ugly or really "nerdy" looking...people who probably dont meet many women. i dont think ive ever seen a good looking, brad pitt pretty boy who is busted for pedo. there are lots of guys who just cant get laid, EVER. there are men who just couldnt get a woman if they tried. there are tons of fat guys, nerd, etc.. who are virgins well into their 30s, 40s, maybe their whole lives. these people are the ones you see when they bust pedos. its because getting women their own age isnt an option. they dont have the looks or social skills to find a woman to act out sexually with. so they seek out kids because they can control them, dominate them. trick them. they just want someone to be sexual with.

this is why i think you rarely see woman pedos. because just about any woman no matter how gross can get laid of find a guy. they dont have the problems ugly guys do...just cuz any chick can find someone horny enough to stick her.


think about this how many times have u heard someone say "he looks like a pedophile" their definently is a type.


also did u know pedos are less common in the african american community??




That pretty much sums it up man. It's all about dominating kids because they can't even get a fatty to fuck them. They're pathetic and wastes of space. These people should be castrated and stuck in a hole.


Xanth - How would you feel about a grown man having sex or molesting your 9 year old daughter? (assuming you had kids, hopefully you do not)


--------------------
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993424 - 08/24/06 08:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

"they seek out kids because they can control them, dominate them. trick them."

This bears itself out clinically, but it is only a partial picture. Object choice is what is being called into question and even unattractive males can purchase sex from prostitutes. Unavailability of a sexual partner in the case of heterosexual males does not result in pedophilia so the bulk of your 'opinion' is erroneous.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993435 - 08/24/06 08:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Edit: Someone got to it first.


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If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 08:07 PM)


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5993442 - 08/24/06 08:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

yeah but dude some guys dont wanna pay for it...i think they go after kids cuz they're almost fooling themselves into thinking the kid wants it... ya know its all a mental thing. believe me, only ulgy guys or really nerdy dude pedo out


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993451 - 08/24/06 08:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Xanth - How would you feel about a grown man having sex or molesting your 9 year old daughter? (assuming you had kids, hopefully you do not)




Firstly, I'm nowhere near old enough to consider having kids.

Secondly, I'd hate if anyone molested my daughter, assuming I had one. However, if they both wanted to have sex, my daughter was knowledgeable about her rights within that relationship, he was free of disease and whatnot, I doubt I'd have a problem.

(In case you haven't noticed, I really, really don't look at sex the same way others do)


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993459 - 08/24/06 08:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
yeah but dude some guys dont wanna pay for it...i think they go after kids cuz they're almost fooling themselves into thinking the kid wants it... ya know its all a mental thing. believe me, only ulgy guys or really nerdy dude pedo out




Misconception based on popular media image. Noticed any of the (fairly attractive) women in the news semi-recently that were accused of having sex with young boys? Think how many more we've never heard of.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineLily_Morgan
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5993460 - 08/24/06 08:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Booby said:
I don't know the facts of the matter but ley's say there was some pedophile tensions within the family. I'm not judging anyone but there could have been a jealousy that led to that death. What do you think?




I think you simply do not know the facts of the matter. :smirk:

You are aware that they found the man who expressed that he committed the ("accidental") murder in Thailand, right? He just arrived back in the States and is awaiting trial. It was her school teacher. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Stop smirking.  There is no way in hell he did that murder.  He had never been over to the house and the person who killed JonBennet had to have EXTENSIVE knowledge of the floor plan of that house.

For example, in the basement there was a hidden light switch.  It has been wallpapered to match the walls.  How did he know where to find it if he had never been down there?

It seems to me that the police just want someone to blame.  I still believe it was her parents.

Why?  I'll give you one reason: the handwriting analysis on the ransom note matched Mrs. Ramsey's handwriting done with her left hand.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993461 - 08/24/06 08:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993473 - 08/24/06 08:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Lily_Morgan]
    #5993474 - 08/24/06 08:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Some people believe the Ramsey's killed her in a Satanic ritual (mostly Illuminati conspiracists)


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993482 - 08/24/06 08:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstanced happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




edited so I don't get banned..

I'll let the smileys talk for me:

:plzdie:

:laser:

Please don't have any kids.


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


Edited by mattzdope (08/24/06 08:25 PM)


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993495 - 08/24/06 08:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Forum Rules: Philosophy & Spirituality
#4526664 - 08/12/05 02:06 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Welcome to the Philosophy & Spirituality Forum

This forum is for the open discussion of a wide range of philosophical topics that often enough also relate to our spirituality. From aesthetics to epistemology, metaphysics to ethics and more. The rules for posting in this forum are simple and few:

1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link.



You are free to present pretty much anything of a philosophical nature you want for consideration - you can even espouse ideas most people would find ludicrous or repugnant. What you can't do is attack the person making the ludicrous or repugnant statements. You can bring to bear all your rhetorical skills and articulate arguments in an attempt to expose the idea under discussion as ludicrous, repugnant or whatever - as a matter of fact you are encouraged to do so - but the acceptable method is to direct all your weaponry at the idea being presented, not at the one presenting the idea.

If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993499 - 08/24/06 08:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Forum Rules: Philosophy & Spirituality
      #4526664 - 08/12/05 02:06 PM  Edit    Reply    Quote    Quick Reply   



Welcome to the Philosophy & Spirituality Forum

This forum is for the open discussion of a wide range of philosophical topics that often enough also relate to our spirituality. From aesthetics to epistemology, metaphysics to ethics and more. The rules for posting in this forum are simple and few:

1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link.



You are free to present pretty much anything of a philosophical nature you want for consideration - you can even espouse ideas most people would find ludicrous or repugnant. What you can't do is attack the person making the ludicrous or repugnant statements. You can bring to bear all your rhetorical skills and articulate arguments in an attempt to expose the idea under discussion as ludicrous, repugnant or whatever - as a matter of fact you are encouraged to do so - but the acceptable method is to direct all your weaponry at the idea being presented, not at the one presenting the idea.

If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.




:imslow:

I already cleaned up my previous post.

Barring admitted pedophiles from having kids is a good argument in my honest opinion.


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993503 - 08/24/06 08:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
I'll let the smileys talk for me:

:plzdie:

:laser:

Please don't have any kids.




Please refute intelligently. The solution to a bad argument is a better one, not insults. Insult all you want if you actually do, though.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993514 - 08/24/06 08:30 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993518 - 08/24/06 08:30 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Forum Rules: Philosophy & Spirituality
      #4526664 - 08/12/05 02:06 PM  Edit    Reply    Quote    Quick Reply   



Welcome to the Philosophy & Spirituality Forum

This forum is for the open discussion of a wide range of philosophical topics that often enough also relate to our spirituality. From aesthetics to epistemology, metaphysics to ethics and more. The rules for posting in this forum are simple and few:

1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.

2) Although not always possible, when quoting a source please provide a link.



You are free to present pretty much anything of a philosophical nature you want for consideration - you can even espouse ideas most people would find ludicrous or repugnant. What you can't do is attack the person making the ludicrous or repugnant statements. You can bring to bear all your rhetorical skills and articulate arguments in an attempt to expose the idea under discussion as ludicrous, repugnant or whatever - as a matter of fact you are encouraged to do so - but the acceptable method is to direct all your weaponry at the idea being presented, not at the one presenting the idea.

If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.




:imslow:

I already cleaned up my previous post.

Barring admitted pedophiles from having kids is a good argument in my honest opinion.





Firstly: Hahaha....

Secondly: I'm not a pedophile.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993521 - 08/24/06 08:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

In my honest opinion admitted pedophiles such as yourself should have their hands + dicks castrated, and their lips sewn shut, so that they can cause no harm to young children. Is this a bad proposal?


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993522 - 08/24/06 08:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993525 - 08/24/06 08:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Barring admitted pedophiles from having kids is a good argument in my honest opinion.




Why? Because they might molest their own kids?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993535 - 08/24/06 08:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
In my honest opinion admitted pedophiles such as yourself should have their hands + dicks castrated, and their lips sewn shut, so that they can cause no harm to young children. Is this a bad proposal?




Firstly: Yes. As I've just stated, the solution to a bad argument is a better one. If you can't think of a reason why I'm wrong, you likely are.

Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile, admittedly or otherwise. Do you have to be black to argue against racism? A women to argue against sexism?


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993542 - 08/24/06 08:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
(FYI, it is)




Surely it wouldn't be pleasurable for a pre-pubescent...Does anyone think different?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineRRRR
Rapture Ready

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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993544 - 08/24/06 08:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Lina Medina (born September 27, 1933 in Paurange, Peru) gave birth at the age of 5 years, 7 months and 21 days and is the youngest confirmed mother in medical history. This world record is closely followed by a similar case in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993545 - 08/24/06 08:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: dishonesty and evil is common [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993548 - 08/24/06 08:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

"If so, then according to the evidence, the only solution is to immediately de-tabooify child sexuality, thus reducing/eliminating pedophilia.

Encourage your kids to exploratory sex today!

This religious hatred of physical pleasure is worse then crazy/ignorant. It's stupid."

This sounds very much like a victim of sexual abuse turned potential or actual victimizer. Clearly these kinds of statements would not proceed from a parent, certainly not a normal parent. Exploration of one's own body is normal, exploration of sexual intercourse and its variants before moral, emotional, cognitive and socio-cultural developments are matured is destructive of youth.

"Religious hatred" is an oxymoron, and the fact that religious explanations given as justification for hatred exists, it is too is a clearly pathological condition. "Religious hatred of physical pleasure" usually entails a form of sexual masochism cast in a mindset that is medieval in its exaggeration of an ascetic ideal. However, these words which appear to condemn religious models of self-control over the instinctual life actually say something else. These words minimalize and marginalize human sexuality, reducing the phenomenon to mere physical sensations of pleasure. Since atheism is an aberration belonging to modernity, an atheistic position fails to understand the breadth and depth of the human condition. Human sexuality from time immemorial has been viewed as having a legitimate place within certain cultural contexts, but deeper still has been its place in the domain of 'the sacred.'

Without a working understanding of 'the sacred' versus 'the profane,' an individual is grossly handicapped in any real understanding of the human condition. Such a person will relate to others with a shallowness of character and values such that any other human being with even a moderate view to spirituality will avoid any attempt at a deep relationship for the simple fact that the atheist admits of no depth (or height, whichever metaphor is chosen)!

The ethics and moral of the professing atheist likewise have serious limitations and may rest upon mere cultural and moral relativism. Not someone I would want to (figuratively) turn my back to, or trust with any degree of depth. These mores would not be welcome around any parents and especially not around their children. Sexual taboos are an important part of normal human sexual development. They have purely biological values in the avoidance of incest and genetic damage at a foundational level, but such taboos also form the basis of civilization and human societies from the tribal organization and upward in complexity. Questioning sexual taboos are an immediate red flag to anyone trained in psychoanalytic forms of psychotherapy. That says a great deal about the person professing such ideas - it is never just academic.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993550 - 08/24/06 08:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: RRRR]
    #5993552 - 08/24/06 08:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Lina Medina (born September 27, 1933 in Paurange, Peru) gave birth at the age of 5 years, 7 months and 21 days and is the youngest confirmed mother in medical history. This world record is closely followed by a similar case in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina




So she wasn't pre-pubescent altho very young. Can pre-pubescent girls conceive?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993560 - 08/24/06 08:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
(FYI, it is)




Surely it wouldn't be pleasurable for a pre-pubescent...Does anyone think different?




I know different. Nobody reads the previous posts? I had a lot of sex as a kid. I don't think a girl of five has yet learned to fake orgasm.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993562 - 08/24/06 08:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
Lina Medina (born September 27, 1933 in Paurange, Peru) gave birth at the age of 5 years, 7 months and 21 days and is the youngest confirmed mother in medical history. This world record is closely followed by a similar case in Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina




So she wasn't pre-pubescent altho very young. Can pre-pubescent girls conceive?




Nope.


--------------------
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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993568 - 08/24/06 08:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

you had sex with a 5 yr old?


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993572 - 08/24/06 08:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
you had sex with a 5 yr old?




As a 5 year old, yes. Or I might've been six. Or four. It was a long time ago.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993574 - 08/24/06 08:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993575 - 08/24/06 08:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i dont like you


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993587 - 08/24/06 08:47 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
you had sex with a 5 yr old?




As a 5 year old, yes. Or I might've been six. Or four. It was a long time ago.




You had sex as a 5 year old? (I think I've passed my credibility horizon.)


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993596 - 08/24/06 08:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I can't stand reading this thread anymore. This guy needs to google up "long term effects of child sexual abuse" and do some reading before he ruins some kids life, if he hasn't already. :nonono:


--------------------
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OfflineXanthas
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Re: dishonesty and evil is common [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5993623 - 08/24/06 08:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"If so, then according to the evidence, the only solution is to immediately de-tabooify child sexuality, thus reducing/eliminating pedophilia.

Encourage your kids to exploratory sex today!

This religious hatred of physical pleasure is worse then crazy/ignorant. It's stupid."

This sounds very much like a victim of sexual abuse turned potential or actual victimizer.




Of which I am neither.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Clearly these kinds of statements would not proceed from a parent, certainly not a normal parent. Exploration of one's own body is normal, exploration of sexual intercourse and its variants before moral, emotional, cognitive and socio-cultural developments are matured is destructive of youth.




Once again, the evidence for which is against you. Read the damned links.


Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"Religious hatred" is an oxymoron, and the fact that religious explanations given as justification for hatred exists, it is too is a clearly pathological condition.




Incorrect. I've seen much hatred stem directly from religion. If you want to argue that the religion was perverted from it's original or "pure" form, you can, but it's still a religion, one way or the other.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
"Religious hatred of physical pleasure" usually entails a form of sexual masochism cast in a mindset that is medieval in its exaggeration of an ascetic ideal. However, these words which appear to condemn religious models of self-control over the instinctual life actually say something else. These words minimalize and marginalize human sexuality, reducing the phenomenon to mere physical sensations of pleasure.




Maybe. But what if that's what it is? Ever consider being wrong? Then you're building it up to be something that it's not. You can assign whatever importance you want to anything, that doesn't make it right.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Since atheism is an aberration belonging to modernity,




This is simply a falsity.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
an atheistic position fails to understand the breadth and depth of the human condition.




Also a falsity. You should start supporting your claims.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Human sexuality from time immemorial has been viewed as having a legitimate place within certain cultural contexts, but deeper still has been its place in the domain of 'the sacred.'




Maybe. And since time immemorial, the sun has been viewed as a god.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Without a working understanding of 'the sacred' versus 'the profane,' an individual is grossly handicapped in any real understanding of the human condition.




From where did you get the idea that I have no notion of sacred or profane? Consciousness is sacred. Intelligence is sacred. Senseless slaughter of aforementioned consciousness is profane.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Such a person will relate to others with a shallowness of character and values such that any other human being with even a moderate view to spirituality will avoid any attempt at a deep relationship for the simple fact that the atheist admits of no depth (or height, whichever metaphor is chosen)!




You don't know many atheists, do you? I could say the exact thing about the deeply religious, and I'd be sometimes correct, sometimes wrong.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The ethics and moral of the professing atheist likewise have serious limitations and may rest upon mere cultural and moral relativism. Not someone I would want to (figuratively) turn my back to, or trust with any degree of depth. These mores would not be welcome around any parents and especially not around their children.




Common misconception, often refuted, and shows nothing more then a lack of knowledge about non-theistic philosophy.

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Sexual taboos are an important part of normal human sexual development. They have purely biological values in the avoidance of incest and genetic damage at a foundational level, but such taboos also form the basis of civilization and human societies from the tribal organization and upward in complexity.




I've no disagreement with close relations not having kids together, but sexual taboos don't form any sort of rational basis for any civilization. Look at how much they've changed in the past few hundred years!

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Questioning sexual taboos are an immediate red flag to anyone trained in psychoanalytic forms of psychotherapy. That says a great deal about the person professing such ideas - it is never just academic.




Like most of what you just said, you have nothing to back it up. Admittedly, I'm not trained in psychoanalytic forms of psychotherapy, but that's generally not the most scientific field of research.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993628 - 08/24/06 09:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
I can't stand reading this thread anymore. This guy needs to google up "long term effects of child sexual abuse" and do some reading before he ruins some kids life, if he hasn't already. :nonono:




I'm not arguing against child abuse. I'm arguing against the notion that all sex with children is child abuse.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993629 - 08/24/06 09:00 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
you had sex with a 5 yr old?




As a 5 year old, yes. Or I might've been six. Or four. It was a long time ago.




You had sex as a 5 year old? (I think I've passed my credibility horizon.)




It's really not that uncommon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993639 - 08/24/06 09:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.




Once again, everyone is too damned penetration-centric. Besides, if it hurt her, she could stop. Otherwise, it would be abuse, which I am not defending.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993644 - 08/24/06 09:03 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
you had sex with a 5 yr old?




As a 5 year old, yes. Or I might've been six. Or four. It was a long time ago.




You had sex as a 5 year old? (I think I've passed my credibility horizon.)




It's really not that uncommon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports





Yeah but kids fooling around isn't pedophilia.


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That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993650 - 08/24/06 09:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Yeah but kids fooling around isn't pedophilia.




Yes, and? To which comment was this directed towards?


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: porcupine]
    #5993651 - 08/24/06 09:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

beating dead (really dead) horses.


--------------------
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5993656 - 08/24/06 09:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Is Xanthes trolling us?


--------------------
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993663 - 08/24/06 09:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Probably...we are all trolls...it is just that this subject has been beat half to death 50,000 times on The Shroomery...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5993666 - 08/24/06 09:08 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
beating dead (really dead) horses.




Mayhap. But this both sharpens my debating skills (not much, considering my opposition's arguments), is fun, and will hopefully make someone think a bit.

Edit: Besides, most of the posts in P+S are too much like those in MR+P for me. I prefer lively debate which it is at least possible (hypothetically, at least) for both sides to back up their arguments.


--------------------
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Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 09:15 PM)


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993672 - 08/24/06 09:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Is Xanthes trolling us?




Nope. I was never good at playing devil's advocate.

If I was, would I be doing a good job?  :grin:
I don't think I've ever been called a troll before...


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 09:12 PM)


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5993691 - 08/24/06 09:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Probably...we are all trolls...it is just that this subject has been beat half to death 50,000 times on The Shroomery...




So has everything else.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993692 - 08/24/06 09:15 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.




Once again, everyone is too damned penetration-centric. Besides, if it hurt her, she could stop. Otherwise, it would be abuse, which I am not defending.




This is a slippery slope which obviously puts the child on a cliff's edge, literally on a fence with the potential of immense harm on the other end should she fall. Placing a child in a situation that has potential for harm is in itself a form of abuse.


--------------------


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5993703 - 08/24/06 09:19 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Placing a child in a situation that has potential for harm is in itself a form of abuse.




Life has potential for harm so life is a form of abuse.


--------------------
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5993714 - 08/24/06 09:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile




Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
wait if you have a 9yr old girl and a 40 yr old guy who is disease free wants to fuck her...and your daughter says yes, you're ok with a guy fucking a 9yr old?




I'd allow/disallow it depending on the guy in question/laws at the time/whatever the circumstances happen to be. But I wouldn't immediately bar it from happening.




I wouldn't think it's even possible with a nine year-old or younger. Is it?




Why the hell is everyone so penetration-oriented? (FYI, it is)




How do you know this? (in refernce to you saying it is possible to penetrate a nine year old kid)




As I've said in this thread before, several times, I was rather sexually active as a kid.




So apparently I have to take your word that the nine year old you had sex with as a kid enjoyed it. OK, you were kids and there really wasn't much going on down there in the way of size. A 40 year old would be an entirely different matter.




Once again, everyone is too damned penetration-centric. Besides, if it hurt her, she could stop. Otherwise, it would be abuse, which I am not defending.




This is a slippery slope which obviously puts the child on a cliff's edge, literally on a fence with the potential of immense harm on the other end should she fall. Placing a child in a situation that has potential for harm is in itself a form of abuse.




There is immense potential for harm in a child being alive. To minimize such harm, one should keep said child under supervision at all times, never let them handle sharp things, keep them away from every possible danger, every threat.

I don't think that a child having sex puts that child at the level of danger you think it does. Once again, see all my other posts.

Or rather, I'll rehash: People are mostly good, pedophilia doesn't change that. People mostly don't want to harm children: Pedophilia doesn't change that. Such sex doesn't have to be harmful.

(Wow that's a lot of quotes.)


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993736 - 08/24/06 09:25 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

an adult having sex with a child is indeed always child abuse.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993748 - 08/24/06 09:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

A child is not able to make a solid decision on whether sex with an adult is right or wrong. You being an adult should know that it is very wrong. That's the bottom line here. If you want proof as to why it's wrong look up the long term effects of child sexual abuse, and yes any sexual contact with a child by an adult is abuse. Your long winded posts do nothing to deter this fact, if your mind is so fucked you can't see this then just look at the statistics.


--------------------
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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #5993754 - 08/24/06 09:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingOftheThing said:
an adult having sex with a child is indeed always child abuse.




Read the goddamn posts, please! There are links I've posted! They contain useful information!

Your statement is composed of circular logic. An adult having sex with a child is child abuse. Why? Because it harms children. How so? It's child abuse.

It's not always child abuse. In fact, I'll wager that it's usually not child abuse. I'll go even further to say (as I already have) that child abuse could be better prevented by the de-stigmatizing of pedophilia.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993760 - 08/24/06 09:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
A child is not able to make a solid decision on whether sex with an adult is right or wrong. You being an adult should know that it is very wrong. That's the bottom line here. If you want proof as to why it's wrong look up the long term effects of child sexual abuse, and yes any sexual contact with a child by an adult is abuse. Your long winded posts do nothing to deter this fact, if your mind is so fucked you can't see this then just look at the statistics.




Look at the statistics yourself. Most contact is not abuse. There is no inherent right or wrong in sex.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993778 - 08/24/06 09:35 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
There is no inherent right or wrong in sex.




Between 5 year olda or 9 year olds. But we were talking about pedo sex.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993802 - 08/24/06 09:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
There is no inherent right or wrong in sex.




Between 5 year olda or 9 year olds. But we were talking about pedo sex.




I know. And if such sex is not harmful to anyone, enjoyed by both, then it is not wrong.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993814 - 08/24/06 09:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It's not just a potentially dangerous situation, it is one with potential for immense harm to not only the child's emotional well-being, but their psychological development. Furthermore, you have no idea how that child will react to that situation years down road. Most people, with adult articulation, will look back on such experiences as exploitive even if they were not explicitly harmful. You are forgetting that a prepubescent child is still a developing personality.


--------------------


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993820 - 08/24/06 09:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
if such sex is not harmful to anyone, enjoyed by both, then it is not wrong.




You should consider discussing this in a philosophy forum where you are not subject to personal attacks and character degredation.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5993828 - 08/24/06 09:48 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
a prepubescent child is still a developing personality.




A twenty year old college student is a developing personality.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5993835 - 08/24/06 09:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
It's not just a potentially dangerous situation, it is one with potential for immense harm to not only the child's emotional well-being, but their psychological development. Furthermore, you have no idea how that child will react to that situation years down road. Most people, with adult articulation, will look back on such experiences as exploitive even if they were not explicitly harmful. You are forgetting that a prepubescent child is still a developing personality.




First half-decent argument I've heard. If you have the links to back it up. Some that focus on number of abusive/total relationships or negatively remembered/nonabusive, maybe?


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Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 09:56 PM)


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5993868 - 08/24/06 09:54 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
You should consider discussing this in a philosophy forum where you are not subject to personal attacks and character degredation.




When such a deeply rooted taboo subject is discussed, I think it'd be rather difficult to find one. Thanks for the sympathy, if that's what it is, but hell, I'm not quite a thin skinned as that to be deeply offensed by random people on a forum who've never even spoken with me. Especially when most have no valid argument as to why I'm wrong.

Would you be insulted if a kid called you "stupidhead"?


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993886 - 08/24/06 09:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

An adult male having sex with a little girl will not only fuck her up mentally (she could end up with a take on sex akin to yours) but she would be wrung the FUCK OUT and no one in her adult life would enjoy having sex with her.

Let kids be kids. this isnt a brave new world you fucking wack job.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: moosehead]
    #5993910 - 08/24/06 10:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moosehead said:
An adult male having sex with a little girl will not only fuck her up mentally (she could end up with a take on sex akin to yours) but she would be wrung the FUCK OUT and no one in her adult life would enjoy having sex with her.

Let kids be kids. this isnt a brave new world you fucking wack job.




Wrong and what the fuck is with everyone's fixation with penetration?

Tell me what is wrong with my view of sex rationally, please? In a manner suitable for P+S, please? With evidence/opinions that I haven't already refuted, please?


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993914 - 08/24/06 10:07 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
A child is not able to make a solid decision on whether sex with an adult is right or wrong. You being an adult should know that it is very wrong. That's the bottom line here. If you want proof as to why it's wrong look up the long term effects of child sexual abuse, and yes any sexual contact with a child by an adult is abuse. Your long winded posts do nothing to deter this fact, if your mind is so fucked you can't see this then just look at the statistics.




Look at the statistics yourself. Most contact is not abuse. There is no inherent right or wrong in sex.




Basilides summed it up a little better than I did.

You show me statistics saying adult sexual contact with a child is not both mentally and physically harmful to them. You are obviously very delusional as to what is right and what is wrong.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993924 - 08/24/06 10:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

moosehead said:
An adult male having sex with a little girl will not only fuck her up mentally (she could end up with a take on sex akin to yours) but she would be wrung the FUCK OUT and no one in her adult life would enjoy having sex with her.

Let kids be kids. this isnt a brave new world you fucking wack job.




Wrong and what the fuck is with everyone's fixation with penetration?

Tell me what is wrong with my view of sex rationally, please? In a manner suitable for P+S, please? With evidence/opinions that I haven't already refuted, please?




Does it make somebody wrong because they don't type out long winded posts full of bullshit like yourself? I don't think so. His compact down to the point reply made more sense than anything you've typed in this thread thus far.


--------------------
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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993957 - 08/24/06 10:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
A child is not able to make a solid decision on whether sex with an adult is right or wrong. You being an adult should know that it is very wrong. That's the bottom line here. If you want proof as to why it's wrong look up the long term effects of child sexual abuse, and yes any sexual contact with a child by an adult is abuse. Your long winded posts do nothing to deter this fact, if your mind is so fucked you can't see this then just look at the statistics.




Look at the statistics yourself. Most contact is not abuse. There is no inherent right or wrong in sex.




Basilides summed it up a little better than I did.

You show me statistics saying adult sexual contact with a child is not both mentally and physically harmful to them. You are obviously very delusional as to what is right and what is wrong.




Edit: Hold on


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Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 10:18 PM)


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5993963 - 08/24/06 10:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

moosehead said:
An adult male having sex with a little girl will not only fuck her up mentally (she could end up with a take on sex akin to yours) but she would be wrung the FUCK OUT and no one in her adult life would enjoy having sex with her.

Let kids be kids. this isnt a brave new world you fucking wack job.




Wrong and what the fuck is with everyone's fixation with penetration?

Tell me what is wrong with my view of sex rationally, please? In a manner suitable for P+S, please? With evidence/opinions that I haven't already refuted, please?




Does it make somebody wrong because they don't type out long winded posts full of bullshit like yourself? I don't think so. His compact down to the point reply made more sense than anything you've typed in this thread thus far.




No, but it's wrong because if, as you say, my posts are full of bullshit, someone (anyone) should have been able to rationally refute them. Nobody has, so it's only reasonable to assume I'm right, or the closest thing to it.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993984 - 08/24/06 10:22 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The American Psychological Association published a fairly controversial study several years ago that indicated that boys experienced less pervasive harm than girls as a result of the clinical definition of Child Sexual Abuse as they experienced it, especially in the case of adolescents. The study involved college student samples. This was a meta-analysis taking on previous moral preclusions in science that were non-empirical, mainly the claim that sexual abuse was absolute and gender-blind. What the study did show was that child sexual abuse was a spectrum with various degrees of pervasive harm, ranging from post-traumatic stress disorder to indifference and even positive retrospection. Nearly all however, regardless of the degree of harm, felt it was a form of exploitation and rightly so. Would you let a young child drink alcohol or drive a car? In theory, the child can come out of such a situation un-harmed; that doesn't change how utterly wrong it is. Likewise, sexual contacts between the sexually mature and immature are wrong, as it is unknown how it will effect the child's psychological and psychosexual development.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5993986 - 08/24/06 10:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Ahh, but I challenge this notion. I propose that most people are good, and that simply having pedophilia attractions does not change it.

(While I may be well-versed in Gender dysphoria and Gender Identity disorder, I cannot say my knowledge of pedophilia or child sexuality is up to par.  :frown: Please keep this in mind.)

I don't think being a pedophile necessarily makes you a sadistic person, but I do think sombunall (some, but not all) pedophiles use surrogate and manipulative behaviors in order to coerce the child into performing sexual acts. I'm definately against this type of pedophilia and it seems clear to me that it is a form of child abuse. I'm cannot say with any amount of certianty how many pedophiles use these tactics, but from my (limited) perspective, it seems to be a lot. 

I believe that there will be even lower rates of harmful sexual relationships if it wasn't stigmatized.

I definately agree with you there.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Ped]
    #5994001 - 08/24/06 10:27 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think it's a perfectly normal and natural part of our sexuality.

prepubescent children are not capable of reproduction and do not display the signs of being so. there is no biologically useful reason for sexual attraction to prepubescent children. it's pathological.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994014 - 08/24/06 10:32 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
I think it's a perfectly normal and natural part of our sexuality.

prepubescent children are not capable of reproduction and do not display the signs of being so. there is no biologically useful reason for sexual attraction to prepubescent children. it's pathological.




By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'. Pedophilia may or may not be pathological. Simply because it is wrong when acted upon does not in itself generate empirical definition of the attraction.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5994022 - 08/24/06 10:34 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think what Xanthas is trying to say is that if two children can "experiment" with sex and it's OK, then the same "experimentation" can safely occur if the age difference was much greater.

I'm sure that this is true.....to a point.

There are not many situations when this will occur.

But it probably has happened.

The majority of people in America place some kind of religious significance to sex. When sex is just natures way of preserving the species. It is neither moral nor immoral. They get too fixated on the taboo of "experimental sex" even when it is between consenting post pubescent people.

I think that they forget that kids do have sex drives and a curiosity that goes along with it. I can remember masturbating as early as 4. I didn't know what it was, just that it was fun. If our society was more open about sex, I would have asked my parents about it then. Since touching yourself down there was "bad" I didn't tell anyone. It is almost like we are setting our children up to be abused, because we refuse to discuss the subject with our children, in a rational way.

Those who try to dictate morality, from their own point of view, are the true fools.

If both parties were willing and no one was forced or tricked. I don't see a problem with it. Each situation has to be judged on its own merits.....not just broadly swept into the same category of abuse.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5994030 - 08/24/06 10:36 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Ahh, but I challenge this notion. I propose that most people are good, and that simply having pedophilia attractions does not change it.

(While I may be well-versed in Gender dysphoria and Gender Identity disorder, I cannot say my knowledge of pedophilia or child sexuality is up to par.  :frown: Please keep this in mind.)

I don't think being a pedophile necessarily makes you a sadistic person, but I do think sombunall (some, but not all) pedophiles use surrogate and manipulative behaviors in order to coerce the child into performing sexual acts. I'm definately against this type of pedophilia and it seems clear to me that it is a form of child abuse. I'm cannot say with any amount of certianty how many pedophiles use these tactics, but from my (limited) perspective, it seems to be a lot. 




Quite right, however, I do believe that this particular subject has had a lot of media coverage. As the media like to show horrible things, more horrible relationships will be shown. Also, One should keep in mind that due to the power an adult has over children, they're likely to be the victim of sexual crimes at a higher rate then would be true is sexual attraction was the only determination on who one victimizes.

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
I believe that there will be even lower rates of harmful sexual relationships if it wasn't stigmatized.

I definately agree with you there.




Nifty.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5994035 - 08/24/06 10:37 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

moosehead said:
An adult male having sex with a little girl will not only fuck her up mentally (she could end up with a take on sex akin to yours) but she would be wrung the FUCK OUT and no one in her adult life would enjoy having sex with her.

Let kids be kids. this isnt a brave new world you fucking wack job.




Wrong and what the fuck is with everyone's fixation with penetration?

Tell me what is wrong with my view of sex rationally, please? In a manner suitable for P+S, please? With evidence/opinions that I haven't already refuted, please?




Does it make somebody wrong because they don't type out long winded posts full of bullshit like yourself? I don't think so. His compact down to the point reply made more sense than anything you've typed in this thread thus far.




No, but it's wrong because if, as you say, my posts are full of bullshit, someone (anyone) should have been able to rationally refute them. Nobody has, so it's only reasonable to assume I'm right, or the closest thing to it.




Young children are not able to make rational decisions on their own. Their minds are still developing and they have a very narrow understanding of the world. An adult taking advantage of this is wrong.

Studies show that sexual interaction between adults and children almost always leads to mental health issues (for the kid involved) years down the road.

What's not rational about this? This is a pretty cut-and-dry topic man. There have been years of studies done on the subject. Do a simple google search. I'm not going to sit here and waste my time writing a long winded post citing sources for you.

edit: If you want sources there's 12 million links. Take your pick.


--------------------
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Edited by mattzdope (08/24/06 10:44 PM)


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994061 - 08/24/06 10:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
The American Psychological Association published a fairly controversial study several years ago that indicated that boys experienced less pervasive harm than girls as a result of the clinical definition of Child Sexual Abuse as they experienced it, especially in the case of adolescents. The study involved college student samples. This was a meta-analysis taking on previous moral preclusions in science that were non-empirical, mainly the claim that sexual abuse was absolute and gender-blind. What the study did show was that child sexual abuse was a spectrum with various degrees of pervasive harm, ranging from post-traumatic stress disorder to indifference and even positive retrospection. Nearly all however, regardless of the degree of harm, felt it was a form of exploitation and rightly so. Would you let a young child drink alcohol or drive a car? In theory, the child can come out of such a situation un-harmed; that doesn't change how utterly wrong it is. Likewise, sexual contacts between the sexually mature and immature are wrong, as it is unknown how it will effect the child's psychological and psychosexual development.




I wouldn't let a child drink, because there is definite physical/developmental harm in such.

One does not license people for sex.

Nearly all however, regardless of the degree of harm, felt it was a form of exploitation

Where is this from?

So if abusive relationships are removed from the study, what's left/how is that perceived? I'm having a somewhat difficult time finding the study.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994065 - 08/24/06 10:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'.

yes, any sexual attraction that does not have as its root cause a biologically useful reason is pathological. don't fixate too much on the negative connotations of "pathological". for example, homosexuality is pathological, but it's a neutral pathology (socially speaking).


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994077 - 08/24/06 10:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Pathology can be fun.  :cool:


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5994078 - 08/24/06 10:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i totally agree with everything mattzdope has said.
it's clear, consise, sane, rational, and logical.
i don't think it's conjecture or opinion either, it's fact.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #5994079 - 08/24/06 10:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Young children are not able to make rational decisions on their own. Their minds are still developing and they have a very narrow understanding of the world. An adult taking advantage of this is wrong.




Yet, the adult need not take advantage of the child. Once again, if there is no damage, it's not wrong.

Quote:

mattzdope said:
Studies show that sexual interaction between adults and children almost always leads to mental health issues (for the kid involved) years down the road.




Find ones that don't involve abusive relationships. It's quite simply never been done, because it's too stigmatized.

Quote:

mattzdope said:
What's not rational about this? This is a pretty cut-and-dry topic man. There have been years of studies done on the subject. Do a simple google search. I'm not going to sit here and waste my time writing a long winded post citing sources for you.

edit: If you want sources there's 12 million links. Take your pick.




It's only cut-and-dried if you're too deeply immersed in cultural taboo that you cannot ever question it.

Secondly, the way you phrase it is setting yourself up to be technically right, but not counter to what I'm arguing, I.E. A straw man attack.

I'm not arguing for letting people abuse kids. I'm arguing that sex between adults and kids isn't always abuse. And such studies haven't been done.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994083 - 08/24/06 10:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'.

yes, any sexual attraction that does not have as its root cause a biologically useful reason is pathological. don't fixate too much on the negative connotations of "pathological". for example, homosexuality is pathological, but it's a neutral pathology (socially speaking).




So jerking-off is pathological.


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But that life in all it's glory
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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5994089 - 08/24/06 10:52 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

wilshire said:
By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'.

yes, any sexual attraction that does not have as its root cause a biologically useful reason is pathological. don't fixate too much on the negative connotations of "pathological". for example, homosexuality is pathological, but it's a neutral pathology (socially speaking).




So jerking-off is pathological.




Yeap.

Edit: G'night. I'll be back tomorrow.


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Edited by Xanthas (08/24/06 10:53 PM)


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5994096 - 08/24/06 10:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


I'm arguing that sex between adults and kids isn't always abuse. And such studies haven't been done.




yea, but i thought we already established that fact 5 pages ago?
there are cases of incest between royal pharoahs, etc...
or the mother of christ was 14, yadda yadda
thing is, it's only healthy among perhaps one-billionth of the population, or generously 99.999% of cases lead to dysfunctions which go on to hurt many other people as the victim lives it's life with the trauma of being violated or, different than "normal" people.


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5994120 - 08/24/06 11:01 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
Young children are not able to make rational decisions on their own. Their minds are still developing and they have a very narrow understanding of the world. An adult taking advantage of this is wrong.




Yet, the adult need not take advantage of the child. Once again, if there is no damage, it's not wrong.





The child cannot determine whether or not it is damaging to them. They are still very innocent to the evils of the world. They are not in a position (mentally) to be making such decisions. They are little people but very very far from being able to rationalize things like a fully developed adult can. Children put blind trust into adults. You can sit there and explain to them everything involved in a sexual relationship, the possible repercussions, everything and they still won't understand. They are too young to understand things of such a nature. They are children!

You keep referring to your own childhood. Think back on all of the ignorant impulse choices you made, not at all understanding the consequences, that you wish you could take back now. We all have a couple.

Is it alright for a child to tip over a can of gasoline, light a match, and drop it into the gas from about a foot up? Yes it's possible the match will go out but it's highly likely the kid is going to blow themselves up.

Furthermore any adult who finds prepubescent girls/boys even remotely attractive has some serious mental issues they need to deal with. Modern psychology has proven this time and time again. What happened to you as a child to make you feel the way you do now? You have some serious soul searching to do my friend.

Please don't betray a child's blind trust and do permanent mental damage to them. A little common sense and a healthy mind goes a long way.


--------------------
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5994129 - 08/24/06 11:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So really, anything that isn't definitive to you is "OK", even if there is potential developmental harm? Again, all children grow up to be adults eventually. You do not know how, in any possible definitive way, how such a situation will effect that child's development. Since you do not know, you are putting the child at risk of harm, which to me is exploitive and abusive even if it does not dilate into harm and trauma later in that child's life.


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OfflineXanthas
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5994133 - 08/24/06 11:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
Quote:


I'm arguing that sex between adults and kids isn't always abuse. And such studies haven't been done.




yea, but i thought we already established that fact 5 pages ago?
there are cases of incest between royal pharoahs, etc...
or the mother of christ was 14, yadda yadda
thing is, it's only healthy among perhaps one-billionth of the population, or generously 99.999% of cases lead to dysfunctions which go on to hurt many other people will the victim lives it's life.




My apologies. I was wrong. Such studies have been done.

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/story1c032602.html

Just not terribly much.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994143 - 08/24/06 11:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'.

yes, any sexual attraction that does not have as its root cause a biologically useful reason is pathological. don't fixate too much on the negative connotations of "pathological". for example, homosexuality is pathological, but it's a neutral pathology (socially speaking).




Ok, first off - what's a "neutral pathology"? Is this your own use of language?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994150 - 08/24/06 11:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathology

Quote:

Pathology (from Greek pathos, feeling, pain, suffering; and logos, study of; see also -ology) is the study of the processes underlying disease and other forms of illness, harmful abnormality, or dysfunction.




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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5994165 - 08/24/06 11:17 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So jerking-off is pathological.

i jerk off because i have a sex drive which draws me to adult members of the same species and opposite sex.


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5994194 - 08/24/06 11:24 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
Quote:

mattzdope said:
In my honest opinion admitted pedophiles such as yourself should have their hands + dicks castrated, and their lips sewn shut, so that they can cause no harm to young children. Is this a bad proposal?




Firstly: Yes. As I've just stated, the solution to a bad argument is a better one. If you can't think of a reason why I'm wrong, you likely are.

Secondly: I'm no kind of pedophile, admittedly or otherwise. Do you have to be black to argue against racism? A women to argue against sexism?





this is where it gets really funny, lol
because the truth is, if you read this whole thread and view your stance, from any perspective whatsoever, you maybe might not be inclined to pedophilia, i won't say that, but i will say you lack a certain integrity for protecting children, and for knowing the power of their pure beauty and innocence.
nobody who cherishs youth, and family unity, and honestly cares about the wellfare of children would talk the way you do.

in your defense i'll say that i don't think it comes from your heart, but your mind, as you ceaseless want to debate any topic no matter what. I say this because half of what you say makes me think "this person is speaking without thinking first- think before you speak" and for example, please don't try to defend yourself against this observation of mine, my personal opinion is not our topic. i just thought i would add this to excuse away some of the reason behind your incessant taking of the side of the uncommon sexual ideation.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5994206 - 08/24/06 11:26 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

"Pathology (from Greek pathos, feeling, pain, suffering; and logos, study of; see also -ology) is the study of the processes underlying disease and other forms of illness, harmful abnormality, or dysfunction."

the purpose of a sex drive to ensure reproduction. homosexuality is a malfunctioning sex drive. so is asexuality, and is also pathological for the same reason. i say it is a "neutral" pathology because it doesn't really harm anyone. i qualify this with the word "social" because biologically speaking, a lack of desire to mate with the opposite sex does reduce an animal's fitness in the biological sense of the word.

that should answer Basilides' question.

i hope no one is getting all politcal-correctness on me here. i have a number of friends that are homosexual. i don't have a problem with homosexuals, what they do, or talking with them about this the same way i'm talking with you folks now. however, i don't see how you can deny that from a detached, scientific point of observation, it's clear that their sex drive is in fact not functioning properly.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994229 - 08/24/06 11:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This doesn't follow the definition of pathology though. Unless a homosexual is somehow disturbed or bothered by his/her attractions, it cannot by definition be considered pathological.


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994261 - 08/24/06 11:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
"Pathology (from Greek pathos, feeling, pain, suffering; and logos, study of; see also -ology) is the study of the processes underlying disease and other forms of illness, harmful abnormality, or dysfunction."

the purpose of a sex drive to ensure reproduction. homosexuality is a malfunctioning sex drive. so is asexuality, and is also pathological for the same reason. i say it is a "neutral" pathology because it doesn't really harm anyone. i qualify this with the word "social" because biologically speaking, a lack of desire to mate with the opposite sex does reduce an animal's fitness in the biological sense of the word.

that should answer Basilides' question.

i hope no one is getting all politcal-correctness on me here. i have a number of friends that are homosexual. i don't have a problem with homosexuals, what they do, or talking with them about this the same way i'm talking with you folks now. however, i don't see how you can deny that from a detached, scientific point of observation, it's clear that their sex drive is in fact not functioning properly.




wow, thank you for your honesty, that was refreshing.
i see homosexuality as a sort of fixation, almost like pedophilia, so yea, they are pathological disorders, or dysfunctions.

i have nothing against gay people at all, because all people are dysfunctional in different ways (that's the nature of the sin of man).

my stance is, i think sexual dysfunctions should remain socially unacceptable and taboo.
because sex is sacred, if my child sees two men kissing or married, this is eliminating their human rights to have a concept of a sanctified marriage (marriage is to confirm that two bloodlines are mingling with the potential for offspring).

de-stigmatizing pedophilia or any unwholesomeness is generally a bad idea.
i think people forget that kids are the future.
you aren't going to save the rainforest by being a tree-hugger or activist.
you are going to change the world by touching kids in a wholesome manner and teaching them right from wrong, so they grow up to be artists or genius.

and i imagine there are some families that do weird sex stuff that i can't even imagine, incest and pedophilia and stuff.
keep it away from my family.
and that means, you go to prison, or you get shot.


i do vote for de-stigmatizing this huge fear people have-
usually single mothers, or women who think that every man who smiles at their child is a pervert-
these mothers who warn there children to watch out for perverts and they want to get you and rape you-
this warps the childs mind just as much as if they were actually touched-
and this is a huge destructive problem in our society right now.
this fear that is instilled only in people who themselves seem to have no faculty to gauge if a person is good or bad, by merely looking them in the eye. (i do have this power)
they don't trust their own intuition because they have none.


Edited by Telepylus (08/24/06 11:45 PM)


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Re: dishonesty and evil is common [Re: Xanthas]
    #5994278 - 08/24/06 11:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Jeepers...I've never been so consistently wrong before. I mean we all make mistakes, but I'm so relieved that your sources have completely set me straight. I suppose this is why you consider me to be "small minded," but geez, this description comes as a terrible surprise. I always thought that I had a far-to-middlin' expansive mind. Guess I was wrong again. Think I'll go home and eat some worms.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994291 - 08/24/06 11:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This doesn't follow the definition of pathology though.

from what silversoul provided, yes it does. homosexuality is a dysfunction of the sex drive. the function of a sex drive is to ensure reproduction.

i don't want to play the definition game. if your understanding of a "pathology" does not include "that which is dysfunctional" then a dysfunctional sex drive might not be a pathology by your rules. i'm not going to argue the meaning of the word "pathology". we can start using "dysfunctional" in its place if you prefer.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994361 - 08/25/06 12:11 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i think we'll find a small fraction of child abuse is caused by pedophiles.
the problem is not sexual dysfunction even.
the problem is human beings don't worship conception, and procreation.

i see the womb as an organic sort of time-machine that moves souls between heaven and earth.
something to be understood and loved.
like love your mother and father and children.

and i don't think a person is bad for being gay or whatever
but i do think they are bad when they don't understand the miracle power of womanhood

that is why i say dysfunctions are all just dishonesty

nobody honestly wants to be dysfunctional
or put another way, nobody wants to sin
but we are bound the Lie-cycle with lag time, which means, when you try to break free by being wholesome or honest, it takes time before you actually are.

when a person becomes honest, they respect life, and the process of life, and they keep it in mind, because it's miraculous and beautiful.
it's ignorant to ever ignore that miraculous beauty.
because it's a source of Strength.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994610 - 08/25/06 02:08 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Dysfunctional, in a pathological sense, in no way is related to any kind of performance but one's personal psychological function. The inability to reproduce is neither psychological dysfunction - if a particular individual is overly stressed or bothered by the reality that they cannot reproduce, then yes they are suffering from some form of psychological dysfunction. Dysfunction in psychology is consistent discombobulation of one's well being, whatever that may be (alcoholism, addiction, depression, etc). Established psychology has long adhered to this guideline. Finally, "neutral pathology" is a term you conjugated yourself from subjective certitude, it is not clinical terminology.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994664 - 08/25/06 02:34 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

is or is not a sex drive which does not attract one to adult members of the opposite sex fulfilling its biological function?


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994668 - 08/25/06 02:36 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You are conflating biological dysfunction with psychological dysfunction.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Basilides]
    #5994712 - 08/25/06 02:56 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You are conflating biological dysfunction with psychological dysfunction.

i would agree that:

1. homosexuality is the improper functioning the sex drive.
2. the sex drive is a subject of psychological study

i understand that for something to be a dysfunction under the use of the word used by modern psychologists, it has to cause discomfort in the subject. however, the simple fact that the sex drive is a subject of psychological study does not mean that it cannot be disfunctional in a larger, objective biological sense by failing to fulfill its biological purpose. this is so even if someone isn't bothered by their lack of interest in the opposite sex.

yes, their dysfunction doesn't cause them any pain, so as far as the psychologists are concerned, it's no problem at all. that's fine, but to a biologist, something's not working properly.

we got into this because i countered someone's statement that sexual attraction to prepubescent children was a normal and natural part of our sexuality. i reasoned that such an attraction could play no biological purpose and could not be a part of the "normal and natural" functioning of our sexuality. i would never deny that sexuality is extremely complex and there is no such thing as "normal" sexuality. what i will say is that sexual fixation on prepubescent children, as a general behavior, stems from something other than "normal and natural" sexuality. you don't rape children because you have a natural instinct to do so based on your inate desire to reproduce.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5994814 - 08/25/06 03:29 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
is or is not a sex drive which does not attract one to adult members of the opposite sex fulfilling its biological function?



How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5995073 - 08/25/06 06:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?

He doesn't.

He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.

Sex is not sacred.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995085 - 08/25/06 06:17 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:


He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.






It's interesting I think how people tried to stop this discussion from the get-go. I admire Xanthes self sacrificial attempts at derailment. I wonder why people are afraid of discussing this topic. So far I see that there maybe a pathological element to a sexual relationship between an adult and a child. Why is it so hard for people to discuss things? Is it because we are basically violent by nature? that violence by one means or another is our first means autonomy?


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995107 - 08/25/06 06:47 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
Quote:

niteowl said:


He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.






It's interesting I think how people tried to stop this discussion from the get-go. I admire Xanthes self sacrificial attempts at derailment. I wonder why people are afraid of discussing this topic. So far I see that there maybe a pathological element to a sexual relationship between an adult and a child. Why is it so hard for people to discuss things? Is it because we are basically violent by nature? that violence by one means or another is our first means autonomy?




In other words it's an oxymoron to expect a discussion from psychopaths; Interesting.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995114 - 08/25/06 06:52 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

There are raging psychopaths on both sides of every issue.

This thread is a perfect example of extreme views on both sides of an argument.

As always, the truth if somewhere in the middle.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995118 - 08/25/06 06:57 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Sex itself, between consenting adults of the same species and opposite sex, has elements of violence I think. The conventional method is to 'Persue, Subdue, & Screw.'

A release or outlet for violent tendencies perhaps.


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Edited by Booby (08/25/06 06:59 AM)


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995142 - 08/25/06 07:38 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I think that is a personal opinion that needs to be looked into.

I see no violence in my sexual experiences


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5995313 - 08/25/06 10:37 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?

if not to ensure procreation, for what other reason(s) do you think we've evolved a sex drive?


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995333 - 08/25/06 10:54 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

He is projecting is own religious morality into sex, and expecting everyone else to have the same morality.

will you please show me where i supported any of my arguments using religion as opposed to reason? what were you thinking when you read my posts?

"hmm... 'purpose of sex drive is reproduction'... that sounds like a catholic thing, /hand over ears, la la la la la"

?

i am an atheist and have been my entire life. i'm looking at this as a scientist, not a catholic. i don't have the slightest problem with use of birth control, masturbation, homosexual sex, oral sex, or any other non-procreative sexual behaviors you can come up with.

i personally love sex (even the occasional meaningless, semi-anonymous one night stand), yet i have never done it for the purpose of reproduction.

looking at things from a biological perspective, the core reason why i have a desire to do any of this is because a powerful sex drive has been handed down to me through billions of years of natural selection.

there is a reason why nature would grant men a sexual attraction to adult women and women a sexual attraction to adult men. it's also very reasonable to believe that homsexuality results when things get a little mixed up and a man is given an attraction to men, a woman is given attraction to women, or asexuality when a person is not given any sex drive at all. how, through any mistake of nature, could something such as sexual attraction to children be so common? what possible biological function could this serve?


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Edited by wilshire (08/25/06 11:06 AM)


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OfflineBooby
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995353 - 08/25/06 11:05 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
So jerking-off is pathological.

i jerk off because i have a sex drive which draws me to adult members of the same species and opposite sex.




Quote:

wilshire said:
By this logic any sexual attraction that is non-productive is 'pathological'.

yes, any sexual attraction that does not have as its root cause a biologically useful reason is pathological. don't fixate too much on the negative connotations of "pathological". for example, homosexuality is pathological, but it's a neutral pathology (socially speaking).




Oral sex is basically not reproductively orientated and is therefor pathological by your definition.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995361 - 08/25/06 11:10 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Oral sex is basically not reproductively orientated and is therefor pathological by your definition.

we've been over this already. i like getting oral sex from women because i am sexually attracted to them and because it feels good. both of these conditions are traits which i have been endowed with through natural selection encouraging reproduction.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995371 - 08/25/06 11:13 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
i like getting oral sex from women because i am sexually attracted to them and because it feels good. both of these conditions are traits which i have been endowed with through natural selection encouraging reproduction.




Barring pre-pubescents the same can be claimed by pedo's.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995399 - 08/25/06 11:25 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

So basicaly the classification of Pedo' is a group consensus arrived at by choosing almost arbitrarily a cutoff point whereby one is a Pedo' if one crosses that line; but nothing to do with sexual appetite otherwise. Pedo' is not a genetic thing.


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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: niteowl]
    #5995407 - 08/25/06 11:29 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I find the gender double standard that society has on the issue of child abuse to be of interest.

When the 35 year old teacher from Seattle has sex with her 12 year old student, she gets probation and no jail time UNTIL she is found later again with the same student ready to skip the country. Society feels sorry for her, she gets a TV interview and writes a book and is later forgiven by all and allowed to marry the boy after she gets out of jail.

When the 35 or so Portland area male teacher and softball coach ran off with his willing 15 year old girl on the softball team he was hardballing, her wanting to be with him meant nothing after they got caught. Kidnapping charges were added to the child abuse and rape charges and by now he's probably doing a quiet 20 years in the big house. No TV interviews, no book, no sympathy from society. And certainly no marriage, that girl's parents will make sure she never sees him again.

Just another case of the boy getting "lucky" to have met such a caring loving older woman to teach him about sex and love compared to a poor young girl who was abused, raped and victimized by some pedophile.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Booby]
    #5995486 - 08/25/06 12:02 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Barring pre-pubescents the same can be claimed by pedo's.

that is precisely my point. pedophiles are not attracted to prepubescent children due to an inherited trait, or even a biological "accident". it's a learned behavior.

So basicaly the classification of Pedo' is a group consensus arrived at by choosing almost arbitrarily a cutoff point whereby one is a Pedo' if one crosses that line

the line is puberty, it is not some arbitrarily chosen number of years after birth.

a great deal of human sexuality is explained by natural selection. a very large part of it is also learned behavior that has nothing to do with being biologically beneficial (disclaimer: that isn't to say it's wrong).

pedophilia is not a natural human urge. it's a learned behavior, often resulting from abuse of some sort.

i'm going to retract my earlier statement that pedophilia is the result of a dyfunctional sex drive. that would be more accurate for homosexuality or asexuality. a pedophile's sex drive is usually functioning just fine, but it's been hijacked by a learned preference for children that results from psychological reasons other than sex drive.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5995492 - 08/25/06 12:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

being attracted to a 15 year old is not pedophilia unless he or she is very behind in sexual development.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995513 - 08/25/06 12:11 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I used the word pedophile there because whether "technically" correct or not I feel the majority of society would view this male teacher that way. Yet, they view the female teacher in similar circumstances entirely differently. The question is are women truly loving who have kind willing caring sex with young men and are men truly pigs who abuse and rape and victimize young girls the way society portrays it?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5995532 - 08/25/06 12:20 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

here is a very thought provoking article about sex, youth, law, and western culture: http://www.thecanadiangeek.ca/archives/in-defense-of-the-pedophile

when i use the word "pedophile" i am using it in the proper sense and referring to someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. sexual attraction to adolescents is ephebophilia.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995576 - 08/25/06 12:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
How do you know that procreation is the only biological function of sex?

if not to ensure procreation, for what other reason(s) do you think we've evolved a sex drive?



I certainly won't deny that procreation is the primary biological function of sex, but that alone doesn't explain the sex drive of humans. For example, women remain sexually active long after menopause. In this case, it is believed that sex serves to reinforce bonds between partners, thus allowing children a better chance of surviving to adulthood. Masturbation also serves a biological function, as it cleanses the body of old, lazy sperm, and makes way for new, healthy sperm. Even oral sex is believed to serve a biological function, as it allows someone to subconsciously sense if their partner has recently been sleeping with anyone else(at close range, one can pick up on others' pheromones). Given all this, it should not be too much of a leap to assume that homosexuality also serves a biological function.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: wilshire]
    #5995579 - 08/25/06 12:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting article. The guy with a naked photo of his young son in danger of being charged with child pornography is typical of the hysteria we have reached with regard to child abuse, even where there is none as in that case.

Some nights practically every story on the local news is related to sex offenders and related cases whether national or local, teachers caught with child porn, etc. It's no wonder people are hysterical when they are fed hysteria every day. I guess car wrecks and murders are out of vogue...


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5995662 - 08/25/06 01:13 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The dynamics of an older female having a sexual experience with a young boy versus the other way around is quite a bit, I met the kid who had sex with Mary Kay Letourneau, he was 13 and she was 36, she was in a previous marriage, but actually Villi made the first move, at the age of 13 he was having sexual fantasies about women.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: capliberty]
    #5995670 - 08/25/06 01:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I can't imagine having that much sex at that young of age with an older women, I also heard about other kids who went to the same school trying to hookup with her, for some reason they knew it was possible with her, I never felt it possible to have sex with any of my older teachers, and their were a few that I would liked to


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: why is paedophilia so common? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5995746 - 08/25/06 01:40 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

it's only healthy among perhaps one-billionth of the population, or generously 99.999% of cases lead to dysfunctions

I think at the core of Xanthas' argument is that if society, and parents in particular, took these things in stride rather than freak out about them, far fewer of those relationships would be harmful.

In other words, it's the stigma that's responsible for much of the harm.

This used to be true for gay people before gay relationships became widely accepted. Suicide rates among gay kids was much higher than the general kid population. The cause was societal attitudes not gay tendencies.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinewilshire
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