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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4234171 - 05/29/05 07:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Just because a book can be checked out (and returned) to the local library, just as CDs can be checked out (and returned) to the local library means nothing in terms of this debate.

Would you consider it unethical or illegal to download a new release movie or current bestseller off of a website?


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Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (05/29/05 08:07 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4234865 - 05/30/05 12:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I did not say that the CDs (or books) should be free. Putting the information into a material format is a valid service to perform. Remember I said only the information should be free. Movies I feel the same way about, as it is digital media, though publishing the movies straight to the web on release day would go a long way towards stemming the tide of what is percieved as movie piracy. Services like movielink just don't get it. Using copy protection is never going to work as copy protections will always be cracked by socially concious world citizens (hackers). To make money movies and music, both, are going to have to be provided at a reasonable fee with a wide choice of formats and media and in a timely manner. In the coming years companies that focus on protecting their intellectual property will perish while companies offering services will flower. The music and movie industries are no different. These services are going to have to provide users with ultimate conveniance and customization. As our society becomes increadingly more technical this is a necessity.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleKackleDude
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Registered: 06/11/02
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Diploid]
    #4235055 - 05/30/05 01:43 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Good topic.
I understand that my downloading of music is receiving something without paying for it, but I feel it's acceptable 'theft' for a few reasons. If I really need a solid copy or feel like supoprting the artist because they could use it, I go out & either buy the LP or CD if it's not available on vinyl. I spin records so I gain so much more enjoyment if I can toss a track on during a set, which is near-impossible as a dj (CD turntables & mp3 scratch sytems not considered).


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yeeeahh, it's gonna be well wicked


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InvisibleKackleDude
transmundaneother

Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 863
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: KackleDude]
    #4235332 - 05/30/05 03:12 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

oh yeah, and I don't care if people steal my music. if it's at the point where it's being distributed, then if someone doesn't want to give me their money for whatever reason, meh.


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yeeeahh, it's gonna be well wicked


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Diploid]
    #4235394 - 05/30/05 03:35 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The RIAA says it's theft.

I say music should be free anyway. I give my music out for free.
Plus, downloading music gets more fans in a wider audience. Besides, most recording artists make most of their money from touring, not albums. They get more fans from people downloading their music, which equals more people coming to their shows. And a lot of people will go out and buy the album if they like it just for the better quality and the cover art. People love that cover art.

So yeah. downloading music pwns.
It's a win/win situation. The only one's getting screwed in the deal is the recording industry.. so hah! But they are still banking anyway, so who cares. Not me.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Shroomism]
    #4235669 - 05/30/05 05:09 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It's interesting how those who claim the most enlightenment are also the ones who deftly rationalize unethical behavior. :rolleyes:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Diploid]
    #4235759 - 05/30/05 05:46 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

who claimed the most enlightenment?

And what's unethical?


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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Diploid]
    #4235940 - 05/30/05 09:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

the ones who deftly rationalize unethical behavior.

There is no universal set of ethics. What you find unethical I do not.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Posts: 20,793
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Diploid]
    #4235973 - 05/30/05 10:05 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It's interesting how those who claim the most enlightenment are also the ones who deftly rationalize unethical behavior.

That's a value judgment on your part. Your values may or may not coincide with my values.

You still haven't answered my question, either :wink:

Can you provide an example of "theft" where there is no loss of money or material property? (other than file sharing, as that is the idea in contest)


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: trendal]
    #4236015 - 05/30/05 10:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

You still haven't answered my question, either

You asked the question, I gave you an answer (stealing garbage before it is thrown away), then you asked for another example. Why don't you address the given answer first before asking for another?

Taking someone's garbage without their permission before they've tossed it is theft; it doesn't matter that the garbage is worthless, you have no right to take it without permission.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,793
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: Diploid]
    #4236025 - 05/30/05 10:41 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Can you provide an example of "theft" where there is no loss of money or material property? (other than file sharing, as that is the idea in contest)




Garbage is a material property.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: trendal]
    #4236084 - 05/30/05 11:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"theft" where there is no loss of money or material property

Stolen innocence.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,793
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Ethics And Downloading Music [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4237680 - 05/30/05 08:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't call that "theft" :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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