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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4650298 - 09/12/05 01:05 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Listening to Al Franken or Micheal Moore makes me want to kill somebody.




for the sake of your neighbours perhapse you should not listen to them


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4650300 - 09/12/05 01:06 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Neither Al Franken nor Michael Moore is a neighbor.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4650305 - 09/12/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Neither Al Franken nor Michael Moore is a neighbor.




no, for the sake of YOUR neighbors


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4650312 - 09/12/05 01:09 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmmm...now I will flip over to the other side of the coin....

Let's say, someone killed your beloved one(s) (family, lover,...).
One day, you will find him, and as occasion will play, you only have the possibilities to shoot him, let him kill you, or let him run (with the dangers, that you won't see him again, or he will return, killing you).
So then if, possibilities are big, you shoot him and he dies, what would you feel ?

I will try to ask this question a little bit different:
Are there reasonable situations, you could imagine to feel happy to kill someone ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4650339 - 09/12/05 01:16 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
no, for the sake of YOUR neighbors



No, you don't get it. Al Franken and Micheal Moore don't make me want to kill my neighbors. Now, take your time and keep in mind that I wasn't serious, fill in the blanks and then tell me what I was alluding to.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4650355 - 09/12/05 01:20 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Hmmmm...now I will flip over to the other side of the coin....

Let's say, someone killed your beloved one(s) (family, lover,...).
One day, you will find him, and as occasion will play, you only have the possibilities to shoot him, let him kill you, or let him run (with the dangers, that you won't see him again, or he will return, killing you).
So then if, possibilities are big, you shoot him and he dies, what would you feel ?

I will try to ask this question a little bit different:
Are there reasonable situations, you could imagine to feel happy to kill someone ?




first of all, you are askin ME this, not the guy that got his loved one killed. In a highly emotional state my decision could be affected by emotions.

But my rational none-emotional part, the guy you are speaking to now, would definitivley let him run in hopes I never see him again.
If he pointed a gun at me trying to kill me, I would sacrifise myself and kill him or at least disable him.

If I decided to kill him in an emotional moment, I would feel satisfaction at the moment but it would pass in a couple of seconds, being replaced with sorrow and pain.

I can not kill someone I care for and not be punished by my own self.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4650357 - 09/12/05 01:20 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There is no duality




Left, right
up, down
life, death
good, evil
male, female
day, night
wrong, right
happy, sad

and yes of course

love, hate

Just because you choose to pick one emotion and hold it high doesn't change the duality that it fits into. Hate is one end of the spectrem and love is the other. There is duality in every form of life that is known to exist. It's all around you, just open your mind and take it all in.

Yes humans will dominate each other, it does seem to be in our instincts. But that by no means is our sole purpose for being on earth. Only some people choose that as their sole purpose. We can choose the path we walk and weather that is helping people or hurting them, it boils down to a choice. What do you choose your sole purpose in life to be? Mine sure isn't domination, I have no need to enforce my will on others. There are other ways of getting things down without enforcing your will, just a matter of what way you choose to go about doing it.

When you choose massive organized acts of violence to enforce your will you can ensure more acts to be wrought against you. Thus the only thing accomplished by war is more wars. And you can count on some very happy military contractors.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4650366 - 09/12/05 01:21 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
no, for the sake of YOUR neighbors



No, you don't get it. Al Franken and Micheal Moore don't make me want to kill my neighbors. Now, take your time and keep in mind that I wasn't serious, fill in the blanks and then tell me what I was alluding to.




In threads like this, humour about such things is often not detectable. How do I know you really don't have an urge to kill someone? It is a pretty common feeling these days


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Sycronica]
    #4650383 - 09/12/05 01:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
Quote:

There is no duality




Left, right
up, down
life, death
good, evil
male, female
day, night
wrong, right
happy, sad

and yes of course

love, hate

Just because you choose to pick one emotion and hold it high doesn't change the duality that it fits into. Hate is one end of the spectrem and love is the other. There is duality in every form of life that is known to exist. It's all around you, just open your mind and take it all in.

Yes humans will dominate each other, it does seem to be in our instincts. But that by no means is our sole purpose for being on earth. Only some people choose that as their sole purpose. We can choose the path we walk and weather that is helping people or hurting them, it boils down to a choice. What do you choose your sole purpose in life to be? Mine sure isn't domination, I have no need to enforce my will on others. There are other ways of getting things down without enforcing your will, just a matter of what way you choose to go about doing it.

When you choose massive organized acts of violence to enforce your will you can ensure more acts to be wrought against you. Thus the only thing accomplished by war is more wars. And you can count on some very happy military contractors.




the everlasting human fetish to classify, stick numbers,and find oposites.

love is love, hate is hate, it is people who consider them to be oposite things. They are just emotions.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4650441 - 09/12/05 01:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

All our thoughts are just 1s and 0s anyhow...


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Sycronica]
    #4650448 - 09/12/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Our brains are not digital, they're analogue.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.

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OfflineMJF
Human Being
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 1,823
Loc: Between 15 and 45 degrees long...
Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: looner2]
    #4650461 - 09/12/05 01:48 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

MJF said:
I'm guessing soldiers tend to lean more towards the retarded side than the sociopath side. Anyone who can follow blind orders to their death and kill others without question....tells me there is something wrong with them. And if they were fine before the war....why do they come out fucked up?





Disgusting post. As long as your not the one doing the killing, then it is easy to degrade those that MUST do it, right?

An over-used quote has relevance once again.

"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-George Orwell





What disgusts you about it?
Why do you think the military recroutes the way that it does?
Yes it is easy to degrade people that are killing..and I think they should be degraded. Two of my best friends are in the military...and they know that I don't condone it. I think they are making more lives less safe than they are making lives safe.

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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4650465 - 09/12/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

the everlasting human fetish to classify, stick numbers,and find oposites.

love is love, hate is hate, it is people who consider them to be oposite things. They are just emotions.




You can kick the stray dog, or you can feed it. 2 possible reactions to a situation, each on the far ends of the spectrum. Therefore, opposite each other.


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: MJF]
    #4650469 - 09/12/05 01:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MJF said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

MJF said:
I'm guessing soldiers tend to lean more towards the retarded side than the sociopath side. Anyone who can follow blind orders to their death and kill others without question....tells me there is something wrong with them. And if they were fine before the war....why do they come out fucked up?





Disgusting post. As long as your not the one doing the killing, then it is easy to degrade those that MUST do it, right?

An over-used quote has relevance once again.

"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-George Orwell





What disgusts you about it?
Why do you think the military recroutes the way that it does?
Yes it is easy to degrade people that are killing..and I think they should be degraded. Two of my best friends are in the military...and they know that I don't condone it. I think they are making more lives less safe than they are making lives safe.




Are you a pacifist?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
Loc: Inside my head
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: looner2]
    #4650482 - 09/12/05 01:53 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Are you a pacifist?




Don't say yes, he will sick his bulldog on you!


--------------------
Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

Edited by Sycronica (09/12/05 01:53 PM)

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OfflineMJF
Human Being
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 1,823
Loc: Between 15 and 45 degrees long...
Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: looner2]
    #4650483 - 09/12/05 01:53 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
It is his duty to kill, so spare him the psychobabble and demeaning
attitude towards his profession.




Spare him? Demean his profession!
Why do you want to take away his brain and his heart? Let him decide his own duty...not brainwash it into him.

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: MJF]
    #4650500 - 09/12/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MJF said:
Quote:

looner2 said:
It is his duty to kill, so spare him the psychobabble and demeaning
attitude towards his profession.




Spare him? Demean his profession!
Why do you want to take away his brain and his heart? Let him decide his own duty...not brainwash it into him.




You are an American.

Psssssst. We have an all volunteer army.

Are you a pacifist?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflineMJF
Human Being
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 1,823
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Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Sycronica]
    #4650504 - 09/12/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
When you choose massive organized acts of violence to enforce your will you can ensure more acts to be wrought against you. Thus the only thing accomplished by war is more wars. And you can count on some very happy military contractors.




:thumbup:

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: Sycronica]
    #4650518 - 09/12/05 02:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sycronica said:
Quote:

Are you a pacifist?




Don't say yes, he will sick his bulldog on you!




Not true at all, but I find very few true pacifists when the questioning begins. Most agree with having a military but then at the same time demonize those who do the duty.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflineMJF
Human Being
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 1,823
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Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
Re: sociopaths in war [Re: looner2]
    #4650522 - 09/12/05 02:03 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I refuse to wage a war I have no business waging. I can fight if the occasion arises...it has to arise...I will not make it arise.

Why do you insist on not answering any of my questions? I answered your question.

As much as our army may seem completely volunteered...our soldiers are deceived by recruiters and in many cases they have been brought up to think they must join the military because "what else are they supposed to do?"

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