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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers  [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6224856 - 10/30/06 04:00 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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But it would be so easy at the Mart. It's hard to get in to Congress with a machine gun. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Veritas]
#6224863 - 10/30/06 04:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree with what you say. However, I do have compassion for others in such positions...it makes me feel important.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
#6224876 - 10/30/06 04:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Possibly, but a machine gun can be persuasive.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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daytripper23
?
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: 
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6225717 - 10/30/06 08:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Diploid have you ever thought of the benifits of piracy??? maybe people are a bit dodgey to your questions but you seem to be just as dodgey about the benifits.
What were leading up to now is a simplification of an already very corrupt buisness, which I believe will lead to a survival of the fittest for the musicians. Music should be a simple buisness, for the musics sake. Simplicity will lead to a world of music that is based on the quality of music, and not the superficialities that come with the system.
is evolution unethical? Maybe, but it is the best answer for the bigger picture.
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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6226017 - 10/30/06 05:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a question for you Diploid. Are you involved in the music business? Do you derive your living in any way from music sales?
Just curious. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
#6226154 - 10/30/06 07:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a question for you Diploid. Are you involved in the music business?
Nope. I have nothing to do with the music business. The thrust of this thread is to explore the ethics of piracy, nothing more.
BTW, I hate the music industry as much as the next guy, especially after the recent spate of brutish, heavy-handed lawsuits against little old ladies whose grandkids installed P2P software unbeknownst to her.
But stealing from an asshole is still stealing, or so I believe.
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6226568 - 10/30/06 10:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes , stealing is stealing for sure. I like to steal sometimes. Sometimes I don't do it for ethical reasons. It's like most of life. We choose this and not that and every person chooses a little differently. From observing this I know that there is no right way or wrong way to be.
If it were up to my principles society would not be the ultra smooth running machine it is today.
Naked and ecstatic in the forest. Fornicating and sharing. 
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
#6226871 - 10/30/06 11:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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here is a good compromise for everyone.
I pay 14 dollars a month for a Rhapsody subscription... I can listen to any album I want to.
It is even better than DLing shit because I dont have to wait for it to DL to see if the music sucks or not....
Also, if you dont have a subscription, Rhapsody gives you 25 free listens a month.... Also, Pandora does a really good job of streaming rare music... so If you really want to listen to a band, just to check them out, you dont have to burn their intellectual property onto your hard drive.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6227089 - 10/31/06 12:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Information cannot be stolen.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6227093 - 10/31/06 12:28 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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All of it is bogged down in limiting DRM.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/16/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6227247 - 10/31/06 01:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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people always say you are only stealing from the huge labels, and not the artist, but you are stealing from the artist. They get points on CD's, and for every CD sold, they get a certain percentage.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6227369 - 10/31/06 01:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't really care if the artist gets screwed or not. That is their affair...who am I to cry over the problems of millionaires, BUT DRM does concern me because it circumvents my rights.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#6227773 - 10/31/06 03:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Information cannot be stolen.
So, if I break into your computer and copy your diary with all sorts of embarrassing personal information, including your account of that incident with the chicken, it's alright with you? 
It's only information after all.
For that matter, I can take your social security number and banking records too (more information), and check out semi-personal information like where you like to shop and the kind of things you buy... so long as I don't use the information to steal money from you.
who am I to cry over the problems of millionaires
Right, so it's OK to steal from Walmart, but not from the corner grocery store. 
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 23 days, 15 hours
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6227795 - 10/31/06 03:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wal*Mart is the corner grocery store, as it would be the same effect.
I feel guilty, in that I've only contributed to this thread by making side-points that involve Wal*Mart in some way. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: fireworks_god]
#6227812 - 10/31/06 03:24 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Guilt is what this thread is all about.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6228074 - 10/31/06 04:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
But stealing from an asshole is still stealing, or so I believe.
If it's not too much to ask, I'd appreciate it you'd address my comments and questions about intellectual property, and how copying amounts to stealing.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Silversoul]
#6228260 - 10/31/06 04:51 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry SS. I like you and you're a cool guy and all, but in the past when I've tried to debate points of philosophy with you and you find yourself being painted into a corner by my carefully crafted questions intended to zero in on a flaw in your argument, you summarily refuse to answer.
It's no fair making me do all that legwork, then shutting down when you see where I'm going. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6228307 - 10/31/06 05:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
Sorry SS. I like you and you're a cool guy and all, but in the past when I've tried to debate points of philosophy with you and you find yourself being painted into a corner by my carefully crafted questions intended to zero in on a flaw in your argument, you summarily refuse to answer.
If you're referring to debates about mysticism and religion, I try to stay away from such debates because one view is rationalist while the other is transrational. However, on matters of philosophy and ethics, I believe my track record hardly reflects this accusation. This is a subject having nothing to do with the spiritual world or the paranormal, so I think we can both operate within the same paradigm here, and therefore I shouldn't have any problem keeping up a debate.
However, I'm somewhat upset that you seem to see this as a debate between people rather than between points of view. Even if I don't respond to a particular point of yours, others can do so. But so far, my points have gone unaddressed. Would you be willing to respond to them if someone else were to bring up the same points? If you feel that my point is not a valid one, please say so, but I hardly see how it matters who brings it up, so long as it gets addressed. So far, you seem to be dodging it.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Silversoul]
#6228334 - 10/31/06 05:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe my track record hardly reflects this accusation.
On this very topic:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4233279#Post4233279
Would you be willing to respond to them if someone else were to bring up the same points?
Up until the point where they stop answering my direct, simple questions, yes.
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
#6228427 - 10/31/06 05:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
I believe my track record hardly reflects this accusation.
On this very topic:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4233279#Post4233279
I just read through that thread, and notice that I answered all your questions. You may not have liked my answers, but they were answers nonetheless.
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