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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
    #6223135 - 10/29/06 10:44 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a few more rationalizations for stealing free music off the internet to add to the pile of BS. 

"They need me to download their music for free and listen to it in the hope that one day I might like it enough to buy their CD so they can get the 50 cents the record company will give them a few months later as a royalty check."

"It's better keeping those musicians hungry and thinking about music instead of food or having enough money for too much booze or too many drugs."

"Those rich record companies or artists who have gone commercial can afford for me to download their music.  In fact, those rich bastards deserve it.  Robin Hood was right."

Recently I hired some plumbers to come into my house and install a water filter.  To try to help them get the job done (particularly since they are charging me by the hour) I brought them a ladder (what plumber doesn't carry one?) and a pry bar and a nail puller to help them remove a 2x4 that was blocking a pipe.  At the end of the day I find my $ 16 nail puller has disappeared.  So I call them on my cell phone and get what I like to call a "guilty denial".  "No, I didn't see that, I saw the larger pry bar but if I see it in my tool box I will let you know."  Why am I not expecting the phone to ring?

Now, these are plumbers working for a licensed and bonded union shop making good money doing a job at my house and and they still fucking steal from me.  I wonder what their rationalization was.

"That rich bastard lives in a nice house and can afford it". 
"I can use that nail puller on my dog house project this weekend and this rich bastard probably won't use it again after today." 

Then I thought about all the wrongs I have done in the past that somehow were "right" at the time and just what my rationalizations were or still are.  The pile of BS was large and smelly and I didn't want to dig around in it too much.  :frown:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (10/29/06 10:52 AM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
    #6223138 - 10/29/06 10:45 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

The media companies are trying to set themselves up as the controllers of all information. If you control the flow of information you control the ideas and perceptions of the population...not too cool. Piracy is an act of civil disobedience that should be engaged in until our laws are relaxed a bit so as to favor the individual more.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: adrug]
    #6223143 - 10/29/06 10:48 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
I don't see how internet music piracy is any different than making copies of your cassette tapes on blanks and giving them to your friends. That was a very common practice for a long time and there were never any legal repurcussions involved.

Was that immoral too?





the difference is either you or one of your friends still has to buy it. with internet piracy, you dont.


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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Diploid]
    #6223154 - 10/29/06 10:51 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I think justice is finally being served with the whole celebrity pay-rate. The mainstream shit is the pirated stuff, causing them to lose money, but still make enough to be wealthy. Doctors should be the ones making millions, not someone who slaps a cheaply written song to a choppy beat and goes platinum. People who support real music are the one's who are actually paying for it, and the real bands are still making money because their stuff isn't all over the place for everyone to grab. I think it's finally balancing out.


Edited by Newbie (10/29/06 10:51 AM)


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: porcupine]
    #6223160 - 10/29/06 10:53 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Someone has to rip the songs off the cd to get them into MP3 format...which means someone is buying the cd.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6223180 - 10/29/06 10:58 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

If the whole music industry went belly up I could care less. I am a musician myself and I feel that I would be more inspired to go back to creating my own music and listening to musicians in my community if that occurred... Like back in the old days before radio. This would cause a renaissance in music I believe. people would return to art for love and a modest living instead of a quick buck. There are a few artists applying this community based attitude to putting their music online for a small sum and publishing it under the creative commons license which guarantees freedom of information...in other words it is tradeable. I do not see myself wasting money on another cd ever again. Fuck all those greedy bastards in the media business!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6223190 - 10/29/06 11:04 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Be careful with talk of civil disobedience or you risk being named an enemy combatant and ending up incarcerated in a detention camp for many years with no due process and not enough bad food. And certainly no internet connection. Of course you can complain to the guards about individual rights and right after that you will get individual attention.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6223226 - 10/29/06 11:16 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

That has been my experience as well.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Newbie]
    #6223235 - 10/29/06 11:18 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

'Doctors should be the ones making millions,

:tongue: :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
    #6223245 - 10/29/06 11:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Information Technology workers should make the millions...thats a no brainer :smile:


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
    #6223259 - 10/29/06 11:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

We should feel better knowing that many doctors insist on providing the highest quality pharmaceutical products instead of questionable generics. It shows they care about their patients and the cruise that Pfizer took them on was nice too.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6223284 - 10/29/06 11:36 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

And they should be very generous with their friends.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
    #6223289 - 10/29/06 11:38 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Would a couple mill buy your support?.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6223293 - 10/29/06 11:39 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

My first experience with prison life began in the fifth grade when living in London.  We were bused with military kids to a school that had previously actually been a prison for German soldiers in WWII.  Talk about a bad place with some bad karma still around.  :eek:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6223299 - 10/29/06 11:41 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

My first experience with prison began the day I was born :smile: I am currently planning an escape.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6223319 - 10/29/06 11:47 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yes!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNewbie
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
    #6223337 - 10/29/06 11:55 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
'Doctors should be the ones making millions,

:tongue: :thumbdown:




Not the doctors who work to make drug companies money, I'm talking about the one's really dedicated to healing.  I guess their paychecks can't really discriminate, but you know what I mean.  There are professionals out there that deserve wealth more than some singers/dancers do.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Newbie]
    #6223371 - 10/29/06 12:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Relative and subjective. Who decides what and who is important? I get your point but I can't go their anymore. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: Icelander]
    #6223399 - 10/29/06 12:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ethics: Music Pirates = Spammers [Re: aNeway2sayHooray]
    #6223471 - 10/29/06 12:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

20 motherfucking dollars for a cd is quite ridiculous.

You're not compelled to buy it. What's ridiculous is that some people feel if the price is high enough, it's OK to steal it.

Piracy hurts record labels,not musicians.

That's not true. More and more musicians self-publish. Ripping off their music hurts them DIRECTLY. And the ones on a label see lost royalties. No matter how you rationalize theft, if it wasn't given to you, it's still theft. By the way, I copy music too. The difference between us is that I don't kid myself about it. I am a thief.

As far as music piracy goes,there is a big difference between downloading music for your own listening pleasure and making copies and selling them.

Why? Copying music doesn't hurt anyone, or so I keep being told. If you sell it after you copy it, no one's hurt, right? I mean, you already 'own' it once you copy it, right?

software patents should be eliminated completely

Wow, let's all break into the Shroomery servers and steal the database and software Ythan and company have worked so hard to perfect, then start our own Shroomery. For that matter, let's abolish ownership of the intellectual property called Domain Names so we can steal that too. Nobody should 'own' information. :shake:

But if they are and are still complaining (or their representatives are complaining) about wanting more money, and for people to pay for downloads and such, then that's just greedy.

By this reasoning, it's OK to steal from WalMart because they're a big, rich, greedy company and it hurts the company, not the employees. And while I'm at it, it's OK to go to the 'rich' part of town and burglarize houses because, what the fuck, those people are rich, right?


I'm really dismayed (but not surprised) at all the self-serving opinions so far in this thread. Were someone with less money than you to steal your car for the same reasons you're giving (you're rich compared to them), I think you'd side with me (but only in the case of YOUR loss).

As for the tie to spamming, spammers use MY bandwidth without permission to send me advertising on MY nickle. Pirates take MUSICIAN'S music without permission. Very similar in my book: taking something you have not been given.

Also, most of you are not in a business requiring your email to be public, so you see a handful of spams each day. My email has to be public so I get ballpark 150 to 200 spam emails a day depending on the day of the week. That amount steadily grows as my address ends up on more and more spam lists. About twice a year, I have to change my email address, update my business cards, web sites, phone book entry, and send updates to everyone I correspond with, losing a few customers each time. If I didn't do that, my in-box would be getting two or three spams per minute by the end of the year.

Spam filters don't work because if you set them aggressive, you lose customer email, and if you set them lenient, you spend 5 minutes of every hour sifting through shit and hoping you don't accidentally delete a customer order.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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