DNKYD said:

Religion is merely a tool to control ignorant masses. It divides, not unites. It's a disease to humanity. Free yourself from the bondage you have called "salvation" and learn to think freely. Fairy tales and myths are good as bedtime stories for little kids, nothing more. Learn from the mistakes of those who have passed and rise above these lies.

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I honestly thought this way at one time....  I did....  There is no reason for me to hide a truth....    But, how does religion itself "divide" people....?    Besides the people that fight to keep a religious freedom from being taken from them - from another "religion" of people....? 

And, I do think very freely, as I freely chose to give myself to GOD....  Key point: "I Freely Chose".... 
To also be noted as "self-control" to "follow" my heart in the name of Jesus Christ.... 
I do not feel this as to be "controlling" at all, as I chose to "follow", and I can choose not too "follow" at ANY time.... 


So DNKYD, do you live on an island that is not part of some form of Governmental CONTROL system....?  Hhhhmmmm....  So choosing to follow the teachings of the Bible is for the "ignorant" huh....?  BUT, "freely" living in a country (say, the USA), you HONESTLY don't feel like you are a person that is COMPLETELY FORCED AND LEAD BY "a tool to control ignorant masses. It divides, not unites. It's a disease to humanity."....?  After all, "they" know what is BEST for us....    Come on man, open your eyes and put the blame where it belongs....      GOD does not force ANYONE to do ANYTHING that they do not wish to do, it is a true freedom of choice to "believe" or "not believe"....  So, where is this "control" at anyways....??  The teachings of the Bible (as I know) are about LOVING and being KIND and/or COMPASSIONATE, and "LIVING RIGHT" with respect to other's choices.... 

I have NEVER seen any kind of Governmental "control system for the ignorant masses" (set up by the errogant power hungry men) "as a tool" to have ANYTHING to do with "LOVING", and/or having "COMPASSION" for other PEOPLE....  Otherwise, there would be no such thing as "hungry people" amongst the many RICH money hungry people that own 6(or more) HUGE homes that have hired hands to " take care of" the houses for the other 10 months of the year....  (I won't even mention the homeless people....)    And you speak of division and uniting....? 



Just so I can sum up your perceived thought on this (and correct me if I am wrong) based on your post here...:

1)  Religion, or just the Bible, and it's teaching love, morals, and respect to others is an "ignorant" thing to follow and abide one's life by because it is a 100% free choice for anyone to choose to "believe", (commonly known as SELF-CONTROL)....         


2)  Governmental Control, to which YOU indeed "FREELY" CHOOSE TO LIVE UNDER, allows you to truly choose to do whatEVER you want in the ULTIMATE of choices.... 
Well....  Except for the draft.... 
And, well, the enforced laws.... 
And, being Taxed.... 
And TAxed again.... 
And those Taxes being raised for "your good", or just WASTEFUL spending and FAT salaries....
And again....
And again....
BIG BROTHER....!!!!  YEAH BABY YEAH....!!!  FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMM....!!!   

Embrace your freedom of choice - FREE FROM ALL CONTROL....  Might wanna~ bend over to take your freedom "straight-up", as you have FULL CONTROL to perceive this "diseased tool" as pleasure or pain....    The way I see it, and this is VERY generalized, Governmental control is what *TRIES* to remove the negative physical "sins" from society by way of ENFORCED LAWS that are fundementally based off the Bible's teachings....  I guess THAT depends on how you perceive it too.... 

Funny how much "control" you really have, well, as I see it....  And funny how much real "choice" you have....  Still I would like to know where the true "disease to humanity" really is, and also where the "bondage" is....    I am also wondering who you think is ignorant by time you get to this point....   



To be noted:
Religion, or "Fellowship" as described in the Bible, just asks that two or more people "assemble" to speak of GOD and the Bible TOGETHER....  It doesn't have to be "organized", nor of any certain denomination....  PERIOD....







OK, I have to admit my mistake....    I made a statement the the Bible was "unchanging"....  I dunno~ why I said that, and you can call that a mistake on my part....  I know the Bible was translated by man from many different languages....  That alone would change some of the original words used....  But HOW MUCH do you suppose the context or meaning really changed in translation....?

Psychoactive1984 said:

Now that statement will surely place you in hell.
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Anyhow, I'd much rather be a shepard then a sheep. If you place yourself in all of that symbology, then follow the shepard's that are the wolf's. Like I've mentioned in my previous posts, I've nothing to gain from this, and a hell of a lot to recieve negatively.

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If you CHOOSE not to believe in the Bible or Religion, there is no possible reason one should EVER question or even bring up heaven or hell....  For you have chosen not to believe in a religion, or the Bible....    People seem to somehow forget that fact....  How could ANYONE in their "right" mind CHOOSE to throw guilt at a believer by asking that person questions about going to heaven or hell if you do not BELIEVE in them...?         

Not sure how you are planning on being a "Shepard"....??  If you meant that in religious terms, the metaphoric "Shepards" Save the sheep -ONLY if you DO believe in the Bible(and I guess other encompassing religions as well? --Don't mean to step on toes in my beliefs)....  If you do not believe, you are really only being a "Shepard" to yourself, and being a non-religious "Leader" of yourself in a non-believing kinda~ sense, seems like a redundant/non-true statement in itself....     

I guess one could also be a "Shepard" in a different religious sense as well....  But, if you were to be a "Leader" (or perhaps a GOD?) to yourself, you would only be "Leading" yourself, and I guess I would ask, "Where are you going to lead yourself too....?"    Do "Shepards" or "Self-Leaders" of Self-Religions get some sort of Map to heaven mailed to them....?  I wouldn't mind if you explained this, IF this was your meaning of being a "Shepard".... 

If you meant being a "Shepard" in a non-religious way, and if you did mean it as to be a "Political Leader"(in the USA), you would be constantly leading your "Sheep" into the slaughter....  That is how "Political Leaders" lead when opposed....  And if you choose not to be a "Political Leader", then you are a "Sheep", and was another non-true statement on your part....   

Confusing, you are....! 



Unless I am not seeing your words in their true presented context....?  To which I ask you to correct ME....   

Either way, ya~ both (may)know I ain't out to "get" anyone.... 
I did put the funny face icons for humor,
but none of my words were of a negative intent....   


ME....

PhanTomCat said:

Psychoactive1984 said:

Now that statement will surely place you in hell.
.
Anyhow, I'd much rather be a shepard then a sheep. If you place yourself in all of that symbology, then follow the shepard's that are the wolf's. Like I've mentioned in my previous posts, I've nothing to gain from this, and a hell of a lot to recieve negatively.

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If you CHOOSE not to believe in the Bible or Religion, there is no possible reason one should EVER question or even bring up heaven or hell....  For you have chosen not to believe in a religion, or the Bible....    People seem to somehow forget that fact....  How could ANYONE in their "right" mind CHOOSE to throw guilt at a believer by asking that person questions about going to heaven or hell if you do not BELIEVE in them...?         

Not sure how you are planning on being a "Shepard"....??  If you meant that in religious terms, the metaphoric "Shepards" Save the sheep -ONLY if you DO believe in the Bible(and I guess other encompassing religions as well? --Don't mean to step on toes in my beliefs)....  If you do not believe, you are really only being a "Shepard" to yourself, and being a non-religious "Leader" of yourself in a non-believing kinda~ sense, seems like a redundant/non-true statement in itself....     

I guess one could also be a "Shepard" in a different religious sense as well....  But, if you were to be a "Leader" (or perhaps a GOD?) to yourself, you would only be "Leading" yourself, and I guess I would ask, "Where are you going to lead yourself too....?"    Do "Shepards" or "Self-Leaders" of Self-Religions get some sort of Map to heaven mailed to them....?  I wouldn't mind if you explained this, IF this was your meaning of being a "Shepard".... 

If you meant being a "Shepard" in a non-religious way, and if you did mean it as to be a "Political Leader"(in the USA), you would be constantly leading your "Sheep" into the slaughter....  That is how "Political Leaders" lead when opposed....  And if you choose not to be a "Political Leader", then you are a "Sheep", and was another non-true statement on your part....   

Confusing, you are....! 



Unless I am not seeing your words in their true presented context....?  To which I ask you to correct ME....   

Either way, ya~ both (may)know I ain't out to "get" anyone.... 
I did put the funny face icons for humor,
but none of my words were of a negative intent....   


ME....

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/cuts away the spam.

So... just because I do not believe in your god and I question it I'm at fault for having a disagreement? Classic argument

Beyond that, that is just detracting form your unwillingness to approach any of the facts I've submitted in a logical manner. It's equivalent to you saying, you don't believe in republican doctrine, you dislike it... please just leave it alone... Sorry, I'm about finding contradictions and proving them to be contradictions.  (Note: Repbulican doctrine was for illustrative purposes only)

Shepard in way of leading those out of their selfless incoherent babble.. yes, I'd much rather expose fallacies then follow them. Shepard in way of a Biblical sense? Hell no (and I do mean "hell" no). Just of a metaphorical context. I'd choose to lead those out of what I believe to be manipulation, and the ignorance that has been protracted for centuries..

You on the other hand have choosen the other connotation in both senses of the word. I'm not suggesting that it is a bad choice... just one that I shall never take.

You either lead... or you follow.
You either think for yourself... or you preach others beliefs and allow them to think for you.

You are attempting to clean up dogma with dogma... I've tried to clean up dirt with dirt.... it's about the equivalent... sometimes you just need to know when to throw in the towel and get something else beyond the substance which is causing the mess.

I don't mean to express anything in a negative manner either... If I come off that way, it is not my intention... I often am percieved as an asshole but... it doesn't bother me nonetheless.

JCoke said:

1) Horus had followers and was ruler of the living and of the underworld, is this the facts your talking about that links to jesus?? it's just not much for me to see i really have to use my imagination..hercules on the other hand, why don't switch to that connection? there's not much i can say about that..

2) and once again, the God of the old testement is the same in the NT, God in the old, kills those who sin and loves those who don't, the new testement God loves those who don't sin, and kills those who do, there is no diffrince.

3) some of those "footnotes" were fine, others though, meh, like paul talks in galatians about meeting with Jesus's half brother "peter", not to mention he talks about christ rising from the dead (i beleive that's also in galations??), which would make jesus more than just a teacher but the miracle worker he was in the gospels and he talks about Jesus appearing to him, himself, making it a firsthand account of Jesus..

4) also, there's a diffrence between giving Gold to God as an offering and using the laws of God for self profit, please, we both know the diffrence, you like to waste my time, don't you? not that i mind, i'm bored myself..

5) look at it this way, God hates the things we love and value, by not using the Gold themselves and giving it to God as offering, it would please God, if they killed and destroyed the city and used the Gold for themselves, they would become self indulgent,<---this is exactly what was happeing at the temple that jesus kicked shit around for..

6) on the other hand, God gives good gifts, many times he gave them Gold to use to buy booze and food and to party and what not, it's all about where your heart is with Gold and luxury...

7) as for as the patriarchy, make up your own mind, like you've already have, if you read the bible and all you get is kill the sexually immoral and make women less the men you missed the whole point of the bible..

8) i'll leave this thread now, you can have the last word, my ego is the only thing that keeps me coming back to this discussion, and it's only feeding it when i come here,, have fun, i know i did.. 

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1) Please, review the full context and version thereof also the symbolism of the myth provided. All of those are of general detail, attempt to get the full version and not one that makes abstractions.

2) Nyet. Try again.... Their is a VAST difference... but ok whatever... If you fail to see it, not my problem. The point of the matter is that it is an ego-centric religion, and only those loved by god, and only those that offer their lives in way of lifestyle changes, and piety to a certain group, are granted that. Sorry... it's reminescent of prepubescent children and their "girls/boys" only clubs... all those that aren't of the nature, are cast out of the group and shunned by "god" for not believing in him.

3) Ermmm ok, although Paul was around after Jesus's death ya know... choose to believe whatever you wish, the book of Paul was written well after the death. However, I'm sure god is powerful enough to create time loops, and to allow his believers to follow them and leave the "sinners" in the dust.

4) You reply... we're wasting each others times if you tend to look at it like that  . Anyhow... their is no difference... really, why would a god request an offering like that? Of what purpose would an offering have in any merit? Don't talk about Cain and Able or whatever now please... either:

A: God's playing chess, and toying with us
B: Man is altering the bible to retain his control on society, and selling it as the belief of god... I know, I realize this is a relatively foreign concept, It's probably never happened before. 
C: An all powerful being who has the ability to create situations as well as everything else for that matter and is amusing himself, for himself... and by himself.

5) pffft. He could of destroyed it himself... I bet the church held the gold in their treasury, awaiting for god to come down and transfer it to his... As a matter of fact they're probably still doing that, awaiting Armageddon until Jesus returns, as he'll need the gold for some reason or another

6) Hence promoting the sin that he is directly against... what a mindfuck of a god.

7) And make women less then men... STOP! I believe it is you that has missed the entire point. No wonder why it takes so fuckin' long for women's movements and "equality" to come about. The bible expressely prohibits it.

8) Ego and a display of it is overrated. The ability to show your beliefs and to share others, as well as to reason your beliefs on the other hand... isn't. I believe that is why you are on these boards to begin with. I wouldn't know though.

Psychoactive1984 said:

PhanTomCat said:

Psychoactive1984 said:

Now that statement will surely place you in hell.
.
Anyhow, I'd much rather be a shepard then a sheep. If you place yourself in all of that symbology, then follow the shepard's that are the wolf's. Like I've mentioned in my previous posts, I've nothing to gain from this, and a hell of a lot to recieve negatively.

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Unless I am not seeing your words in their true presented context....?  To which I ask you to correct  ME....   
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Either way, ya~ both (may)know I ain't out to "get" anyone.... 
I did put the funny face icons for humor,
but none of my words were of a negative intent....   
.
.
ME....
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/cuts away the spam.
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So... just because I do not believe in your god and I question it I'm at fault for having a disagreement? Classic argument
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Beyond that, that is just detracting form your unwillingness to approach any of the facts I've submitted in a logical manner. It's equivalent to you saying, you don't believe in republican doctrine, you dislike it... please just leave it alone...  Sorry, I'm about finding contradictions and proving them to be contradictions.  (Note: Repbulican doctrine was for illustrative purposes only)You are attempting to clean up dogma with dogma... I've tried to clean up dirt with dirt.... it's about the equivalent... sometimes you just need to know when to throw in the towel and get something else beyond the substance which is causing the mess.
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I don't mean to express anything in a negative manner either... If I come off that way, it is not my intention... I often am percieved as an asshole but... it doesn't bother me nonetheless.

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Fault....?    My unwillingness to what....?    UUuuummmm....    I didn't perceive your words as to you being an asshole (your words, not mine),
but you most CERTAINLY didn't clean up shit with Jack shit....   

I said nothing about your God....  You have not stated what you believe in, but I am starting to get the idea of what you stand for....  I actually ASKED what you to "correct" me, but instead you have dodged around in a very "shitty" confrontational way of trying to use the "shock and awe" of a smoke screen to confuse the facts that what I said was NOT wrong....   

So you are in a thread I created for people to speak freely about Jesus Christ, and you start double talkin some crap about what I believe in....?
And you want me and my "unwillingness" to,  "leave it alone", "throw in the towel", and "give up"....?    Tisk Tisk....    That just seems silly to me....!   

So, NoN-Master and NoN-Commander of ME, anything else I should find of NoN-Relevence to your doubtful(to some) and confusing(to some) rheteric....?       
Take your doubting, double talking, commanding, and FALSE accusational SHIT, and ummmmmmmmm.... 
OH WAIT, where does shit come from....?   



Nice balancing act ya~ got going there.... 

(you sure do use that jag-off icon a lot....!)   

::::throwing you the towel::::
(Not to be confused with THROWING IN THE TOWEL....   

PUHHLLEEEEZZZZzzzz~.....   
/cuts away the Shit.... 

But, please don't take this as negative, as I mean it with the BEST intents....!
Some people just take me as a person standing up for what I believe in, JESUS RULEZ....!     


ME....






And for the record, and without confusing anything with a bunch more contradicting double crap,
what exactly is it that you DO believe in....?

Psychoactive1984 said:

(whatever Icon btw... you shouldn't be thinking about that anyhow... tis a sin)
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I'm not suggesting you throw in the towel... I'm suggesting you provide a basis for your argument rather then disseminating everything I type... as it only detracts away from the discussion. Smoke screen? I believe I'm presenting anything but a smokescreen. It is you that is refusing to speak on the issue at hand.
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Didn't clarify my beliefs as this thread isn't about Psychoactive1984's beliefs... I'm seeking how to be SAVED!!! (every see that movie?) My god isn't being discussed here... it'd be too hard to discuss it in relative terms... however if you made a post talking about my god, I'd be more then willing to humour you.
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I don't believe in a god that gives and mandates a lifestyle, nor a god as it were in the typical fashion more so as a force... that has no mandate nor will on our existance. God as uncertainty itself... nothing more, nothing less. My god is a quarter . My god has never commited a foul, never told anyone what to do, never was their a war fought due to the belief in it (directly)... their's a chance my god doesn't exist... hence the uncertainty. Agnostic? Nope. Atheist? nope. I don't care if it exists or not, I choose to embrace uncertainty... that way, I figure theirs a 50/50 chance It'll be ok when I die... either way... /flips a coin A bit more complex then that.. but you get my drift I hope. I believe in people... that's enough for me. They've shown all the traits of many gods throughout history... suffice to say, good enough to be an emulation. Basically... I'm my own god, that needn't another's, nor his own worship, nor respect, and needn't the certainty nor the affirmation of another to provide that. I'll be the one that determines just what happens to me on earth... not some external influence tempting me. (Note: 50% of the time)
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Take it out of context as much as you will. I was merely suggesting you throw in the towel with doing as you just did.... as it doesn't exactly further the discussion in any manner.
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Dodged you? never... ask if you need clarification... I just would rather talk about the subject itself rather then talking about us talking about thinking of talking about it .
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Anyhow... take it out of context as much as you wish... (which you have several times now with select quotes).
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And please... don't curse at me... it's also a sin.

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Cursing isn't a sin, thinking about sex is not a sin, and the greed for money is the root of all evil....   
(and I didn't curse at you at all....?) 
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Taken out of cointext....? 
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Simplicity would be a lot easier....  No...?
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So, with that pocket full of cash, would you Sink or Swam....? 
Keep your cash, because when it is all said and over with, money IS worthless to me.... 
Money cold and not stable, ever shifting in "value", covered with LOTS of faces, dirty, thin, AND hollow.... 
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Money has a promise of nothing, because there is nothing to back it up but sold out promises....
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And I am pretty sure you cannot find a way to be offended about that at all.... 
UNLESS you are unwilling to see the "TRUTH" for face value....   
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Feel the love....!  FEEL the Love....  <===That is ESPECIALLY for you....
In Jesus's name, hopefully you will find something in this thread more worth something than money to believe in....
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ME....
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(or did you mean something other than "money" when you said "quarter"....? )