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 sir tripsalot
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 Could God Forgive the devil? 
#607658 - 04/13/02 11:35 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe other hellbound people want to know as well. Would god ever forgive Lucifer? I think this brings up some interresting questions like:
- Would I get to go to heavan if the devil was forgiven?
-Why wouldn't God be willing to forgive him?
-If he gets to go do I stay in hell and just hang out?
-Would someone guilty of more than not believing in god get to go too?(e.g Child Molestors)
Any Ideas are welcome cause I litterally have eternity to think about it in the afterlife and if it's true, maybe..... just maybe I could get the devil to swallow his pride and apologise.
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607682 - 04/13/02 11:56 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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lol... i think this is the best question i've heard here. 
see... i think the thing is that lucifer would have to see the error in his ways and change them for good, but the very nature of the "the devil" is that he wants to continue doing evil, so that would never happen.
and god seems like a real bastard sometimes and i'm not sure if he could swallow his pride and ask lucifer back into heaven anyway... maybe he secretly forgives him though.
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 KoOs
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607775 - 04/14/02 02:46 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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What you have to consider is the possibility that God doesn't like you. Could be, God hates us. This is not the worst thing that could happen.
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Jared
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607794 - 04/14/02 03:10 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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If "god" forgave "the devil" that would mean he would have to also forgive you, considering that "the devil" has commited so many more sins than yourself.
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World Spirit
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607801 - 04/14/02 03:16 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Deleted by admin
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607860 - 04/14/02 05:15 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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yea,But sometimes when I get really spun out and things just fit...I come to the conclusion that were already in hell and were just fooling ourselves.
How does the saying go?
If God was real,We'd have no reason to create him.
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LOBO
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607896 - 04/14/02 07:23 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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God and the devil are the same, the devil is the name that God uses when he has to do somthing that we don't like.
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Xlea321
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607921 - 04/14/02 08:18 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, the god and the devil were just two things various rich wankers made up to keep poor people in line. Take mushrooms and ask God about it yourself.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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gnrm23
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607957 - 04/14/02 09:49 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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for an enjoyable journey to judgement day (and beyond...) as told by a sinning protestant pastor (who firewalked into a universe next door) --- do read robert heinlein's _job_
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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skaMariaPastora
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: LOBO]
#607971 - 04/14/02 10:11 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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God and the devil are the same, the devil is the name that God uses when he has to do somthing that we don't like.
haha, that's great. And very true I think. The devil is just a fabrication of our dualistic imagination. God is all and everything and as such has infinite capacity for forgiveness.
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gnrm23
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#607978 - 04/14/02 10:21 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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as to the naturre of the dispute between yahweh and shaitan... well, that has changed over the millennia, as the natures of the creator deity and the ancient foe have changed... (even the concept of a dedicated adversary, a fallen angel leading a third of the heavenly hosts into exile, was pretty much an import from zoroastrianiasm acquired during the babylonian captivity... and some tradtions (esp. some of the gnostic "heresies") have a different slant on who the good guys and the bad guys are in the struggle in heaven, in the garden of eden, in the christly incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection... and more through variations in european christian thought (& poetry - see milton), jewish theology (from the captiivity, the diaspora, the pogroms, the holocaust, and here and now...) and in islam since the time of the prophet and his companions...
and perhaps al crowley and anton lavey have something to contribute as to the nature of the beast... & even latecomers like charley manson & marylin manson, hehheh...
other cultures have other images of the evil one(s)... loki and allied forces working for the destruction of the world in norse tales... kali ma and other death gods/goddesses in india... some of the amazing creation story adveraries from mexico and south america... the evil one tempting buddha away from the path to enlightenment... the enemy of light whose name must not be uttered in zoroastrianism... (sorta echoes of cthulu, hehheh...), & many more faces of the dark side...
~~~
do you know how much they are charging for a glass of icewater in hell these days?
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#608012 - 04/14/02 11:13 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Absolutely, God would forgive the Lucifer. Unconditional love and acceptance doesn't stop at its friends. I am in line with those who think that Satan is merely an aspect of God. An opposite aspect of itself that The First Cause created in order to maintain balance in the Universe. The forces of dark cannot exist without the forces of light, and vice versa. They are two parts of the same whole. Hell, God put Satan in charge of the material world and all the things that go with it. He must have some faith in him. It's Lucifer's job to make sure the rules of physics remain constant. It's his job to keep the planet's rotating and keep the material world moving. So far he's done a good job. It's no mystery that Earth has been ruled by dark forces for quite some time. The lure of the material world hassunken many into an illusional state of being where they believe there is nothing more than what they see. Part of the change occuring is that Lucifer will be freed from the Earth, as it his opinion that he has been a slave to it for so long... and the First Cause/God/All that is/The Great Central Sun/Allah.. whatever you call it, will take control of his people once again and shine its illuminating and all encompassing light of wisdom and awareness on them. For a while the world has been dominated by those who wish to obtain power, wealth, etc, and will take any steps neccessary to make that possible. The tables are being turned however, our world is being flipped upside down.
God doesn't hold a grudge. If it created Satan it obviously knew what he was capable of. Enter says that Lucifer will be cast into a pit of flames to burn for eternity. Well from a human perspective that may seem like a bad thing. Maybe from Satan's perspective, that's the best thing he can imagine. Fire is an element, which holds very powerful capabilities for healing, cleansing, and transformation. I know that Lucifer feels like he has been trapped on our Earth for a long time. He has been very bored, you could say.. and boredom leads to destruction.
Just imagine what kind of games you would play if you were a 6th dimensional angel of light, who had turned to the material world to focus your energies on, and found yourself stuck on a place where very low evolved creatures (compared to you) were just trying to figure out the material world... and you already had it mastered! Wouldn't you play games with their heads? Lucifer is just doing what comes naturally to him, he's doing what he was programmed to do.
God is omniscient, therefore he knew what Lucifer was going to do and its ultimately all a part of his master plan. Lucifer is God, You are God, I am God, Everything is God. We are all just different aspects of God, different ways for God to view the world he created. In the end, all will be one, just as it was in the beginning, and will be for eternity.
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Learyfan
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#608895 - 04/15/02 09:09 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why would God need to forgive anyone?
If God is all powerful and invincible then God can not be damaged in any way. If God can't be damaged, then there is nothing to forgive.
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Mp3 of the month: Teddy And His Patches - Suzy Creamcheese
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608899 - 04/15/02 09:13 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am in line with those who think that Satan is merely an aspect of God. An opposite aspect of itself that The First Cause created in order to maintain balance in the Universe. The forces of dark cannot exist without the forces of light, and vice versa.
Yes, when I die, shroomism will cease to be at the same instant.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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raytrace
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#608919 - 04/15/02 09:41 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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and then you both will be reborn as conjoint twins
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CACA
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608928 - 04/15/02 09:53 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Apostasy is running rampant, just the same way that God said it would at this time. The question isn't whether or not God's word is truth, its whether or not you have accepted Jesus Christ in your life. If you want to know what God intends on doing, read His words to you, the Bible. Any sort of logic you use was made by him. He can defy your logic and still be right. God is outside your grasp. Be careful how you talk about Him, because He is not your peer.
Lucifer hates humans. Lucifer hates humans because he is jealous of them, because God almighty said that he, Lucifer, had to serve us humans. Because of Lucifer's conceit, this was an insult.
You are told not to try to get revenge, because you are nobody to exact it. Revenge belongs to God alone, because He is worthy of it. Satan does NOT see being thrown into a lake of fire as a good thing. He knows its bad-like anyone with their head on right would- and wants to drag you and me down with him. Having questions about the motives behind God's action doesn't mean you should turn away from Him. If you turn away from Him, it speaks more about than about Him, since going away from God is not the way to learn more about Him. You, personally, not understanding the logic of God is not going to stop the planets from turning or His will from being done. You better just see where you fit into His plan. If God is omniscient and you are part of His plan, which His Holy word, the Bible, speaks of, then you know where he is headed with all of this existence. Questions about it should be taken up with Him.
Now, you can say that many people have died for this country's sake, but none of them were God almighty's Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ died for YOU. He sacrificed Himself so that we would have only to accept his forgiveness and be clean and faithful to Him, so that when He returns we can coexist with Him. He promised to return to pick up His faithful bride, His church, and punish the unrepentant.
Read His word and appreciate it, because one day you will wish for someone to be there to talk to you about it and there will be no one.
If you know you need to change, but don't want to or don't feel like it, just ask God to change your heart and to put people in your life to help you, because you know its the right thing, and He will. He can change you. No one can do it alone. Surrender to Him and you will experience the difference. Read His word and congregate with fellow believers to affirm your faith in Him. Know His promises to His people. Know his love. Ask for His help. Ask Him to make your will His will. Praise and worship be to the King of Kings and Him alone, whose word endures forever, even after the earth and heavens pass. Praise God for His mercy. In Jesus name, I ask God the Father to touch atleast one of you.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#608945 - 04/15/02 10:19 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Apostasy is running rampant, just the same way that God said it would at this time.
There are more churches, temples, mosques now than any time in history. Please show the evidence for apostasy and where in the Bible it mentions the year 2002.
The question isn't whether or not God's word is truth...
That's pretty darn important to me.
He can defy your logic and still be right.
Bring him on. I love a good debate.
Lucifer hates humans.
And that is why he was named "The Light-Bearer".
If God is omniscient ...
Then he created me knowing that I would reject the fairy-tales that are the Bible.
Now, you can say that many people have died for this country's sake, but none of them were God almighty's Son, Jesus Christ.
How can anyone be anyone else? So are you denigrating the soldiers that have sacrificed their lives?
Jesus Christ died for YOU.
No. He died as a political prisoner for stirring up discord among the masses. His death was in no way related to me.
He can change you.
Perhaps, but for the umpteenth time why are Christians morally indistinguishable from non-Christians?
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (04/15/02 10:20 AM)
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MeltingPenguin
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#608948 - 04/15/02 10:23 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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who cares? that's like saying "could superman ever fall in love with lex luthor?"
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Growing anything is good for the soul
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
#608952 - 04/15/02 10:32 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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could superman ever fall in love with lex luthor?
No, but he sure could get Lois Lane off! They didn't call him "The Man of Steel" for nothing.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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MeltingPenguin
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#608956 - 04/15/02 10:42 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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his super sperm would tear her appart
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Growing anything is good for the soul
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#608966 - 04/15/02 11:04 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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its whether or not you have accepted Jesus Christ in your life.
Oh.. I thought I was supposed to become Jesus Christ? That way, I would have accepted him into my life. Hey! I'm Jesus Christ! Alright.
Any sort of logic you use was made by him. He can defy your logic and still be right.
?
God is outside your grasp. Be careful how you talk about Him, because He is not your peer.
Says you. God is my peer.
Satan does NOT see being thrown into a lake of fire as a good thing. He knows its bad-like anyone with their head on right would-
The only thing a human has to fear from being thrown into a lake of fire is DEATH. Since Satan would burn for eternity, according to you, he would not die. Certainly a lake of fire would be better to Lucifer than serving us humans.
Read His word and appreciate it
I appreciate the Bible for its good stories and some good morals here and there. I don't, however, accept the Bible as the ultimate truth. It's too full of contradictions and bullshit added by the church.
Questions about it should be taken up with Him.
Shroomism: Ok... God?
God: Yes Shroomism?
Shroomism: What's up man?
God: Nothing just chilling
Shroomism: Cool
God: Cool
Shroomism: God, I have a question
God: Yes my son what is it?
Shroomism: Is it true that water boils at 100 degrees celsuis?
God: Yes
Shroomism: Great! Can I be God too?
God: Sure
Shroomism: Thanks God
God: No problem dude
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#608972 - 04/15/02 11:13 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lucifer, Shmucifer...
Okay, "God" created everything, right? "God' knows all that was, all that is and all that will be, right?
Why did "God" create Lucifer and any other evil beings if he knew they were to become evil? If "God" created EVERYTHING, then he is the one who created beings that were or would become evil, he (being omniscient) knew his creations would turn evil.
"GOD" IS THE SOURCE OF ALL EVIL.
Think about it. If "God" is the source of all, that means he is the source of all hate, all evil, all misery. By my estimation, he is a cruel sadistic bastard who tortures weak humans and then demands that they worship him. What an ego maniac. Why would anyone call this 'love'?
Edited by evolving (04/15/02 11:14 AM)
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608976 - 04/15/02 11:23 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why are they calling it love? simple, They are so damn scared they are going CACA in their pants.(no pun intended  )
Some interresting thoughts here. I still think god would forgive him and I'd end up in hell asking the devil "why are your bags packed?" and he'll be all "gods begging me to come back up".
Then I'll be all like "can I come?" and he'll be like "no but you can hang out here." Then I'll throw all the best parties in hell and rain from the couds will be from tears, the tears from angels that are missing a fun party instead of trying to enjoy the sausage party set up in heavan. Ya that's it.
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608978 - 04/15/02 11:26 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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he is a cruel sadistic bastard who tortures weak humans and then demands that they worship him
No.. Christians are the ones who demand that you worship God. God never said you had to worship him.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608983 - 04/15/02 11:31 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sorry, I should have qualified it and said, 'the Abrahamic version of god.'
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608990 - 04/15/02 11:48 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lets just say like has been said before, that God is Lucifer, and is both a cruel and sadistic bastard, as much as he is an all-knowing, omnipotent, loving God. God has a good sense of humor as well, from what I have gathered.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#608998 - 04/15/02 11:53 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sounds like he needs some therapy, if he'd marry my daughter I'd probably have to end up beating the shit out of him. He has the personality of a wife beater. I wouldn't trust him with my children, they need positive role models.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609012 - 04/15/02 12:10 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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We are his therapy..
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raytrace
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609020 - 04/15/02 12:17 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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supposing there is such thing as God:
if you were God, you would create only good and happiness for everyone, everything and forever i suppose...
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609028 - 04/15/02 12:25 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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shroomism, don't mean to insult you, but you are sounding suprisingly swami-like in this thread.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609042 - 04/15/02 12:40 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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if he'd marry my daughter I'd probably have to end up beating the shit out of him.
From Genesis:
And in those days, the Sons of God looked down upon the daughters of man and found them fair; and they took them as wives of all which they chose.
Evolving you are a bad muthuh (shut yo' mouth - say what!? - but I'm talking about evolving; he's a complicated man...) [fade Isaac Hayes background music], but you would be no match for a Son of God. They were powerful and horny. One Elohim was worth 10 men in battle. If they were still around today they would rule the WWF.
Of course modern Christians claim only one son of God and the Bible says otherwise, but that is for another thread.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609045 - 04/15/02 12:42 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sorry, I should have qualified it and said, 'the Abrahamic version of god.'
One more sloppy, unqualified post like that and you are outta here!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#609051 - 04/15/02 12:49 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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shroomism, don't mean to insult you, but you are sounding suprisingly swami-like in this thread.
That's because while you were sleeping, I went into your head.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#609057 - 04/15/02 12:52 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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One Elohim was worth 10 men in battle
Just for reference purposes, the Elohim, aka the Nephilim are the beings that reside on the 12th planet. David took down Goliath with a rock to the dome piece.
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Swami
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609061 - 04/15/02 01:02 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Goliath was a product of a Nephilim and a human female, so he was only worth about 5 men in battle or 2.5 Shaqs...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: raytrace]
#609069 - 04/15/02 01:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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"supposing there is such thing as God"
I suppose I would call it "Nature" or "The Universe."
"if you were God, you would create only good and happiness for everyone, everything and forever i suppose..."
I really can't address that, except to say that adversity does breed character and helps individuals (in this world) to develope towards their potential.
I take issue with the simplistic notions of "God" bandied about by christians and muslims and others of their ilk who can cite no evidence other than ancient texts written for primitive peoples and things written by their "scholars" which are nothing more than derivatives of the originals and/or rationalizations of their belief systems. I have a deep seated mistrust of any belief system which states in any form that those who do not believe in it will suffer punishment merely because they don't believe. I don't cotton to the attitude of "Don't do as I do, do as I say" which so many versions of "God" have demonstrated in their religions. Most importantly, a belief system should not contain contradictions, it should stand up to critical thinking and allow for the assimilation of new information as it becomes available. Christianity, Islam, Judaism and many others don't pass the 'sniff test.'
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Tannis
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#609090 - 04/15/02 01:35 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lucifer attempted to take the place of God.....in other words....to overthrow Him......
He did this with full knowledge (of the truth) and he did not have a " tempter".......
Man did not have full knowledge and was tempted....so he can receive salvation.......
Driving man from the garden wasn't a cruel act....it was done so that man would not "gain full knowledge" like Lucifer and then be "unsaveable"......
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LOBO
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Tannis]
#609109 - 04/15/02 01:58 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Did you ever wonder why he is called Lucifer (The one who brings the light)
Weird name for one that?s supposed to be so bad.
Any way the only thing I agree with the communist thought is that religion is the opium of the masses.
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SofaJesus
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
#609150 - 04/15/02 02:45 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami you wrote back to CACA --
Jesus Christ died for YOU.
No. He died as a political prisoner for stirring up discord among the masses. His death was in no way related to me.
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Jesus didn?t worry about politics because he understood their piety self-serving nature and how they would never change, no matter what century it was --- Just look around at the world today and it?s just as blind and fearful of each other as it always was before
When you understand like Jesus you have no need for motives or causes ? You already know?..and your just their to help without making everyone believe in you ? he just asked for people to look into themselves and find everything they needed -- And if you can just look into your heart then political processes are completely irrelevant
?The more things change the more they stay the same? -- I have never learned anything more truthful in my entire life?.
Jesus died for you & me, not for a cause, not for a believe -- Just for love ? LOVE
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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CACA
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609380 - 04/15/02 07:07 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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There really is too much to say about this right now. I'll come back later. Just off the top of my head, I saw something really wrong there about Nephilim. Nephilim were demons which Satan allowed to coexist in human bodies, which created "strange flesh" and the purpose of that was to contaminate the pure bloodline which the Lord promised he would send a savior (Jesus Christ) who would fill in the gap between us and God, which is sin. And praise the Lord, he did. The very fact that you equate Christianity with hypocrisy shows that there is very much apostasy here, in the revived Roman Empire. As for the question about why he made beings he knew would eventually become evil, I have the same question, but I know that my understanding his work has nothing to do with its absolute truth. I learned that questions to and about God are aside from my faith in Him, because questions are answered - and in His time. You people have been so far from the truth that you think its okay to talk down on God and say you are on level with Him. This world is like a circus. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord. You should praise Him for His mercy.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#609433 - 04/15/02 08:38 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey, don't get me wrong. I am a grateful being of existance and creation because of the life force that God/All that is/The Great Central Sun, gave to me. However, I do not subscribe to the Christian version of God. Some of the things, yes, but not all. I know that God exists in all things. We are all fragments of God's perception. I was raised as a Christian.. it was forced down my throat. At a young age I questioned many of the things Christianity is based on and was given very unsatisfactory answers.. basically.. dont question the lord, you can't understand him. I saw many inconsistencies in Christianity and so I left and sought out another religion. My main problem with the Christian religion is that they claim to be the true religion, and all other religions are wrong. Sure, many religions are like this, but this bothered me. With that comes an air of arrogance and superiority that seems to inflict many Christians. I discovered Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism, and mushrooms, then I became Shroomism.
I equate Christianity with hypocrisy because it is full of hypocrites. That's not to say that all Christians are hypocrites, but that does seem to be the majority from my perspective. If you know anything of the history of the Church, you would know the very evil things they have done in the past, and continue to do. You would know that they have tampered with the Bible on several seperate occassions in order to fit how they wanted to maintain power over people's beliefs. You would know they took out everything in the Bible that Jesus said about reincarnation because the Church does not want people to believe they have another chance. Two words.. The Crusades.
If you have read any of my posts you would know that I profess the name of the Lord all the time. Except I don't say it like that, I either call it Creation, All that is, The First Cause, The Great Central Sun, The Divine Light, or God. Just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I'm not talking about the same God as you.
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Swami
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609484 - 04/15/02 10:01 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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However, I do not subscribe to the Christian version of God.
Greetings my fellow skeptic!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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cHeMiCaLbLuE
member
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#609515 - 04/15/02 10:44 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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god could only forgive the devil if he asked for the forgivenss on his own, (unconditional love), just like anybody here on this earth. when god and those who sit on his throne spoke of revenge on sinners in the revelations i can only hope and pray it was a metaphor to those who do not ask for forgivenss otherwise we would all be going straight to hell.
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insanity with a plan, a plan to stop exercising truth as compared to breathing thin air, but to experience truth as all there is to experience, for what do i not already have that exsists? All i can do is enjoy the ride.
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LOBO
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#609752 - 04/16/02 06:23 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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The problem started with the Jewish religion, which was fallowed by the Christians and Muslims (notice this are the religions with more blood shed).
And the reason in my opinion is the distorted view that they the think they are the chosen people, (which is a very infantile view of the world based on ego "we are better than any body else, we are special") with that concept in mind you get later the crusades, the jihad, the problem in the middle east etc, etc, etc.
But what gets me the most is that I could understand, back then people telling those stories because that was there level of understanding, but to quote episodes of the Bible as facts in this era is very infantile.
Well that?s just my opinion.
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WeirdShroomer
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#610111 - 04/16/02 03:08 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Christianity is created for political purposes . Put this from that religion...delete this..and this..change this end here..looks cool ...just to add this and this...
And CACA you scared shit out of me....ever considered that you are mistaking..
oh and I heard that original christianity ( roots ) are actualy mushroom cult..
Weird MushroomShaman
Oh and one more thing ...no other religia killed more people then Christianity AND christians
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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CACA
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#610117 - 04/16/02 03:17 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Shroomism, you have to understand that there is no way to the Father, except throug His Son, Jesus. Your way of thinking is what is called apostasy.
I would encourage any non-believers to read a book called "Charting The End Times" by Tim Lahaye and Thomas Ice. Christianity is not about superiority or putting others down or arrogance. A true Christian will pray for all non-believers, including enemies. Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism and all polytheistic and naturalistic religions came from Babylon and are lies made to destroy the people Satan is jealous of and despises, the humans.
All groups of people have hypocrites, but who is anyone to judge? How do you know that the hypocrite you saw yesterday isn't struggling themself with trying to let God help him? The Church and Christianity are not the same. The Catholic Bible isn't even the same- and if you're worried about not getting the true message of God's Word, get the NASB, which is the newest Bible with the best translation to present-day english from the original texts.
Jerusalem belongs to Israel and if you know the Bible, you will know that after all is said and done, Jerusalem will belong not to non-believers. If you knew about the Bible, you would know that currently, a prophecy is being fulfilled in the mosque defiling His Holy city. There actually are many prophecies being fulfilled now, but that is one of them; you would know that this time of licentiousness and all-out sinning is just about to come to an end.
My grandmother once saw a man in his prayers, seemingly worshipping the sun. When she asked him why it was that he was worshipping the sun, he said, "I'm not worshipping the sun, I'm worshipping the person who made the sun." He wasn't aware of the Bible or God or our Savior, Jesus Christ.
You definitely are not talking about the same Living God as I am, whose Son came to save us. Praise God.
A big problem plaguing many non-believers is pride. Pride must be set aside and people must humble themselves before God. There really is alot to say, but read that book in Barnes And Nobles. It surely is an interesting read and it will benefit you. Praise God. His mercy is evident to those who seek the truth.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#610160 - 04/16/02 04:09 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism and all polytheistic and naturalistic religions came from Babylon and are lies made to destroy the people Satan is jealous of and despises, the humans.
Erm... ok whatever you say.
If you believe in God, you should believe in the Sun as God too. Without the sun you would not exist. I would worship the Sun before I got on my knees and prayed to some outside source for help. God is within.
You speak of that man worshipping the Sun as if he is inferior to you because he did not know about Jesus. How is he any different from worshipping the Creator of the Sun than worshipping an invisible God that is in a 2,000 year old book written for simple minded people? At least you could SEE his God. Who created the Sun according to the Bible? God right? The Sun is the closest thing to God that most humans can conceive of, and who's to say the Sun isn't God? Or all the stars for that matter? The Sun provides life for our entire solar system. Without it you would not even be thinking those thoughts of yours.
You tell me to worship God... ok I worship God. But I'm telling you to worship the Sun... so... on your knees and repent your sins in front of the mighty power of the SUN!  Humble yourself, for in the presence of the mighty SUN you are but a molecule. What happens when you look into the eyes of God according to the Bible? You go blind. What happens when you stare at the ?
POWER!
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#610168 - 04/16/02 04:24 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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i understand your stance towards belief systems and i agree.
it may be that ?God? goes hand in hand with morals and organized religions, but the idea of ?God? can exist independently of any such correlations.
i can?t really dismiss the idea of ?God? as the great artist, scientist and engineer, even experimenter that gave birth to our universe some 15 billion years ago and acts like a parental figure. all these METAPHORS have come to sound ridiculous after thousands years of abuse by zealots, but still metaphors is probably the most powerful aspect of human expression (probably developing new forms of communication in the future will help). these human characteristics are assigned to the ?Creator? - i think - not merely because we are obsessed with ourselves, but also because for as far as we know, we are the only creatures that express creativity.
the annoying helper-clipper in ms-word is a metaphor created through the use of many layers of metaphors (e.g. ?objects? in high-level programming languages etc.) to serve the purpose of interaction. but, in the end, it is nothing but a series of 0s and 1s (oops, this is also a metaphor). i have no problem with people unwilling or unable to realize that, as long as they don?t destroy my screen to find the little bastard. and i still refer to it as the fucking clipper.
the main purpose ?God? serves for some people is to provide a simple way to be thankful for existence, drain hope, and maybe gain guidance.
i have been raised a christian, and been atheist for some time. now, i suspect that something is there that may deserve at least a minute of humble silence. (ok, I can also be accused of getting excited and having fun by dancing in a ?religious? sort of way at raves.)
by the way, there is a simple "prophecy" i like:
"He who borrows, pays all damage caused by his carelessness"
anyway? just thoughts on a bulletin board?
Edited by raytrace (04/16/02 04:34 PM)
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CACA
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#610259 - 04/14/02 02:59 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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He worshipped the being who made the sun. There is only one way to the Father and that is through the Son, Jesus. The sun is not alive. Raytrace, you don't know God if that's what you think. You don't know God.
You don't know what you are talking about. If you saw God in all His glory without a glorified body, you would die. The sun does nothing but run on the tracks God set for it. The sun has no power that God hasn't given to it- and no power over you or me. You accept that God of the Holy Bible is the one true God Who created the sun, but you don't listen to Him when He says that you are not to have any other gods before Him. If you are lukewarm, he will spit you out of His mouth. If you worship God, it isn't because I told you to, but because of God's glory. The blood of Jesus redeems. Pray to the Father for forgiveness in His name and be born again. Humble yourself before God:
""And to man He said, 'Behold, the
fear of the Lord that is wisdom;
And to depart from evil is
understanding.' "" Job 28:28
God's mercy is everlasting.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
Edited by CACA (04/14/02 03:04 PM)
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SofaJesus
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#610263 - 04/14/02 03:03 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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CACA you wrote ---My grandmother once saw a man in his prayers, seemingly worshipping the sun. When she asked him why it was that he was worshipping the sun, he said, "I'm not worshipping the sun, I'm worshipping the person who made the sun." He wasn't aware of the Bible or God or our Savior, Jesus Christ.
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You see, the last piece of this statement is an inference; Not the truth of the situation.
Maybe God was showing your mother that this man was doing just as good as anyone else. But you seem to assume that this man needs to know christinity.
I do not look at Picasso when I admire is work.
KNOW A MAN BY HIS ACTIONS?..
WELL GOD YOU KICK ASS??
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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CACA
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: SofaJesus]
#610273 - 04/14/02 03:10 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Bible says clearly that the only way to the Father is through His son Jesus. He did not know Jesus. Maybe that man wanted to know the creator, eh? The Bible is the best way to get to know God. Don't judge a man, but at the same time, don't hide the light of God which is your faith. This means wherever there is not faith in the one true God and where there is someone who is not saved by Jesus Christ, the savior, there is darkness- and there is where you help get the word of God around.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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SofaJesus
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: SofaJesus]
#610276 - 04/14/02 03:13 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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CACA your wrote ------------
""And to man He said, 'Behold, the
fear of the Lord that is wisdom;
And to depart from evil is
understanding.' "" Job 28:28
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--- How do you know this ?? Honestly --- Anyone could of wrote this -- How is this any different from someone who says they have talked to God last night???
Rember you weren't there to experience the conversation, just like you aren't their to experience any of the situations people write about on this site all the time....
The diffrence is a large powerful wealthy group has been backing this belief system for over a 1000 years ----
All I'm saying is who really knows anything in the end?
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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
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Posts: 6,487
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: SofaJesus]
#610444 - 04/14/02 07:21 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its the CYA principle. Cover Your Ass. See believing this stuff will not make you hellbound but maybe just maybe get ya into heavan, so why not. To those of us who aren't scared these "Ass coverers" look like fools. CACA wont' go to hell for his beliefs the odds of going to heavan are slim to nil as well, the only risk he takes is looking like a jackass to those of us on earth.
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: SofaJesus]
#610470 - 04/14/02 08:01 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just for reference... Jesus or God didn't write the Bible. Humans wrote the Bible, Humans that claimed they were in contact with God or Jesus. What makes them any different from the many people who post on this board to claim to have talked to God? So some guy 2,000 years ago can talk to God and it is considered valid but I can't claim to have talked to God because that is considered blasphemy? Is this not a double standard?
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WeirdShroomer
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#610590 - 04/15/02 01:07 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Shroomism you forgot Mother Earth....we can say what we want but without Earth ( mother ) and Sun ( father ) we wouldn't exist...
" God put me before nature so I can pollute and destroy because its my right"
Who have right to put himself before nature?
Go live on moon....
Fundamental Christian is no different from Fundamental Muslim.
CACA if you were born in Afghanistan or turkey or maybe India would you be Christian ?
I don't believe.
Please just check this ( if ya search for knowledge ) read and think about that.
www.jamesarthur.yage.net
Just scroll down. there are four pages...find christianity section read and THINK.
I don't say its truth but can make you think... or cant...
When my grandmother died good God believing Christians didn't allowed her to be buried in cemetery because she was " vestica " ( witch ) ... and yes she was... and she was much better person then all that good God loving Christians..
World is not Black & White ......never was
And I beleive that there are MANY paths to the same mountain..
You say there is just one way...I prefer to search my spirituality for my self.
-----------Weird-------------
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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LOBO
Vagabond
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#610666 - 04/17/02 08:26 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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The problem with your logic is that you asume the fairy tales in the bible are true.
Did you know that the story of Moses, is realy a fenician tale.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: LOBO]
#610671 - 04/17/02 08:36 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wow! Shroomism and Lobo dissing the Bible - welcome to Swamiland.
Now if I could only get you guys to question modern books and mystic website writings my mission will be complete and I can return to the stars.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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MeltingPenguin
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2,138
Loc: new england
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#610675 - 04/17/02 08:45 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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there is danger in personifying concepts.........threads like this for instance.
The concepts of good and evil are dangerous themselves, it makes no sense to use a binary system to interpet the world. What one person may see as "evil" another could see as "good". therefor the two concepts are completely relative.
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Growing anything is good for the soul
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WeirdShroomer
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#610694 - 04/17/02 09:19 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Now if I could only get you guys to question modern books and mystic website writings my mission will be complete and I can return to the stars."
Swami I agree...
But we should question science too... many times in history scientific facts changed ( It was scientific fact that earth was center of universe etc etc ) and there are new theories that can shatter our scientific knowledge. Science don't give all questions.
I agree we should question everything including ourselves
-world is not Black & White....never was-
------------weird------------------
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#610703 - 04/17/02 09:36 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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But we should question science too...
Most definitely. There are many aspects of modern medicine that are highly suspect. For example: did you know that women with breast cancer who receive NO treatment have the same survival rate as those who get mastectomies? No (alleged) body of knowledge is safe from the Swami's blazing sword.
...many times in history scientific facts changed ( It was scientific fact that earth was center of universe etc etc )
Umm, that was a theory and not a fact, but in general I agree with you.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#610711 - 04/17/02 09:51 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Eve pick from tree of knowledge
Look like Amanita Muscaria
CACA do you eat mushrooms?
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#610716 - 04/17/02 10:02 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I did forget to mention Mother Earth didn't I? All love and compassion for the Earth which sustains us and the Sun that keeps her going.
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MeltingPenguin
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2,138
Loc: new england
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#610728 - 04/17/02 10:11 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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the old testiment is soooo stupid. lol, adam and eve, lol, its funny how some people are so dumb they actually beleive in such mediocre fables. lol
judisum(and its mutant spawn christianity) has got to be the most uninteresting religion of all time.
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Growing anything is good for the soul
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LOBO
Vagabond
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#610771 - 04/17/02 11:01 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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It is not swamiland, because I don't belive in every thing and I am more skeptic that you can imagine, is that I am not into a crusade to negate every thing ether, I believe in moderation, for example I don't believe most of the stuff that shromisim says, because I haven't experience what he claims to have experience, but I respect his opinions and who knows may be as crazy as it sounds to me there is always a possibility that he could be unto something.
On the other hand I probably think more like you with one big difference, I as well as you (for what you told me) been in mystical schools, and with so called "masters" etc, and my bubble of fantasy has been broken, but the fantasy of reason is also a dead end, I don't clamed to know the truth or they way, and I barely know what I am doing in life, but at my level I feel has to be with personal experiences.
Now please don't get offended, I fell you are to polarize on the other end of the spectrum, and is because of the same disillusion, but you went to the other end and left no room for other possibilities, what I mean is not to say yes but also not to say No right away let it unfold.
And also you have to let people have there fantasy so the can get the lesson of disillusion.
Just my humble opinion.
Peace.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: LOBO]
#610783 - 04/17/02 11:13 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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And also you have to let people have there fantasy so the can get the lesson of disillusion.
They already have their fantasy whether or not I "let them". Perhaps I am the instrument of disillusionment. When is the right time for disillusionment? Is not now a good time? Why is later better?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
#610797 - 04/17/02 11:27 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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heheh just check the moses
hes crazy as hell
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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LOBO
Vagabond
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#610832 - 04/17/02 12:07 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Think how it happen to you? I bet no one change your mind but an event did.
Is not a matter of time you are ready when you are ready, I left false masters, but I know members that are still there even after showing them proof, they will look away, that?s
When I realize you can?t change no one, and I am not supposed to change anyone, we all have to figured it out on our own, some of us have to travel on the wrong path, or hit our head against the wall in order to wake up.
I feel a part of you has a good intention in your comments but you have a part that your ego takes over, and you become very sarcastic, and puts down people in that way you are not helping them because they will negate you even more, and to think you are the instrument or the savior is the ego talking, we all have the two sides I myself had my ego take over and reacted bad against you for that I apologize.
No hard feelings.
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CACA
veteran
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: LOBO]
#611231 - 04/17/02 07:35 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe that people talk with God on a daily basis. That is what is called prayer. I don't believe anyone who says that they have spoken with God if what they tell me of the experience is not true. You are not speaking to God if you talk to "mother earth". Those false religions that attempt to glorify anyone but Jehovah Jireh are from the great whore, Babylon, who will be destroyed by her own peers, and they will lead you to the second death without question. You can turn away from them. They are not your friends. Read the Bible and know the Living God.
For the scoffers- it is nothing less than a prophecy that you are fulfilling in your ignorance and pride.
Its also not about CYA. It is about accepting and appreciating the Love of God, to Whom all the glory belongs.
Many will be called and few will saved. This message was made for anyone who would listen. This message went from 12 disciples into the rest of the world and was declared the national religion of the same empire that destroyed the walls of the second Temple of Solomon.
Israel reestablished Ezekiel 37
Rise of Russia Ezekiel 38-39
Capital and Labor Conflict James 5: 1-6
Increase in travel and knowledge Daniel 12:4
Apostasy prominence 2 Timothy 4: 1-4
Occultism 2 Timothy 4: 3-4
Scoffers 2 Timothy 3: 1-5
Moral Breakdown 2 Peter 3: 1-12
One-World Church Revelation 17
One-World Government Daniel 2
There are people all over the world called Missionaries spreading the Gospel. I may have been lucky enough to have had been contacted by one of these. Remember that not everyone is closed-minded. Remember that by labeling me something with many societal implications, like "Fundamental" serves to do nothing but destroy the credibility of a person who is trying to help you, because you really have nothing to say. Remember also that the environment was not only mistreated by Christians, but that that statement is made in ignorance and with implications that you would like to pin the problems of today on Christians, but speak against them even as you are exercising the right to say so in reaping the benefits of their pioneering. Basically, you want to lie to yourself and others to create more reason to support your self-indulgent, slack lifestyle. I, myself, am part of a generation of people, consisting of many different religions, who benefitted from many people from many religions coming together to speak out against ecological castrophies. Those people who don't care about the environment didn't get their callous ideas from Christians, but from many people with a host of different religions. God says that He gave us the earth as our kingdom and the animals as our subjects, but never said to destroy it. As you know, many people have children. Children are subject to their parents. Do, then, you believe that Christians will destroy their children only because they have authority over them?
I don't need earthly knowledge. God our Father in Heaven created the universe fromwhich you collect your knowledge, which will pass.
Notice the emphasis on your own selves. Humble yourselves before God.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#611240 - 04/17/02 07:49 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I assume as you are a member here, that you trip on mushrooms. Do you share that knowledge openly with your family and church? Did you know that mushroom ingestion as a sacrament came from one of those other religions that you so denigrate?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#611271 - 04/17/02 08:33 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe that people talk with God on a daily basis. That is what is called prayer.
I talk to God when I meditate
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#611391 - 04/17/02 10:57 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Dude, you crack me up, enough with the jokes already, my sides ache.
You remind me of my son when he was five, and we got him to leave a paper plate by the front door with a carrot on it. After he went to bed, my wife chewed the carrot down to a stub and took a big bite out of the paper plate then I put a piece of a 'road apple' on the walkway. Well, he awoke the next morning to find presents under the tree and went out the front door to see what happened. His eyes were like two saucers and he said "Mama, Rudolph, that silly reindeer, he bit the plate!" Man, that was so cute.
Well that was a few years ago and now he doesn't believe in Santa any more. Nobody told him that Santa wasn't real, he figured it out for himself. Do you know how he did it? He looked at Santa's hand writing on the Christmas presents and he noticed that it was suspiciously similar to my wife's.
I don't suppose you see any similarities between various types of propaganda, religious cults, brain washing and these dogmas you keep regurgitating do you? Well, I'll give you a hint. It was all set up to control the masses, read a little history about churches and how in many societies at various times they functioned as governments.
But all those other religions are wrong, false, works of the devil. And you, why you're on the fast track to heaven. Praise the Lord, you are saved and everyone else will be cast into the eternal fires of hell (unless of course they believe exactly like you do). You must feel real superior to all us heathens, huh?
Well me, I don't care. Who in their right mind wants to spend eternity with a bunch of priests, nuns and self righteous bible thumpers listening to harp music? I like warm weather, and I hear winters in hell are like the Bahamas. The hottest women will be there and all the people that know how to party. There won't be any mind numbed religious automatons ringing the doorbell to interrupt me when I'm trying to get into my lady's panties, just so they give me a copy of "The Watchtower" and tell me how I can save myself by becoming just like they are.
Oh, you know my definition of a great whore? One who can suck a golf ball through a garden hose and performs her work gratis.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh."
-- Robert A. Heinlein
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#611589 - 04/18/02 02:49 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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You don't know God
Indeed !
by the way, in terms of christianity: Mary may be the metaphor of "Mother Earth" that gave birth to the "Son of God".
oh...and Gods are rock stars.
tickets for the last concert of Zeus anyone? come on... Dionysus is playing for support (this always works). and free Aphrodite(Venus) posters for everyone ! (marketing is everything)
allright, it might not be as good as when the band was altogether, but everyone is going for a solo carrier now... (damn Zeus, he wanted all the chicks for himself)
the christian God might sell a lot more, but don't you notice the playback? and....man, he doesn't know how to dance !
Edited by raytrace (04/18/02 11:05 AM)
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#611638 - 04/18/02 04:06 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok I figure it...
You don't eat mushrooms.
lol
All I can say is that you are one who need lessons. Try mushrooms and maybe you figure something.
God give earth to us.....yeh right... That's kinda attitude of people who pollute and destroy.
You think that you owe earth and you can do with her what you want.....sometimes I feel shame to be human. Killing in the name of god.
All nature respecting beliefs are from Babylon ? Come on man, you speak nonsense.
Read history, UNDERSTAND others.
Your attitude is what revolt me. You sound like this:
"Regret SINNERS, prey the father or you WILL BURN IN ETERNAL FIRE....
You are stupid if you don't think like me
And you work for devil if you are against me etc etc"
YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO SPEAK LIKE THAT.
What's your purpose to convert young and lost "drug abusers" on this site????
I wear pentacle around my neck (positive symbol and DON'T have anything with Christianity and devil ) and I "worship" Great Mother and Great Father. If I'm gonna burn for that ...ok I don't mind. In any way I will be borne again, and again, and again........I'm immortal.
You think you know the god....
"I am older, older than thought in your species. My Mystic and Magickal
powers have been known by WOmen since thousands of years before Buddha and
Christ. Societies that have followed my rule have lived in harmony with
nature. I can bring the mightiest wars before your eyes, or - show you -
Death. Can show you: certainty (not faith) and peace - unutterable. And I
can give you laughter, joy, and ecstasy - ineffable. Showing the future to
those who dare is nothing: I could place you with the Gods. And my joy is to
see your joy and my ecstasy is in yours. Learning to reproduce my growing
environment you will come to love me. The mushrooms which you see are only
the part of my body dedicated to sex thrills, sunbathing and the communion
with symbiotic species. My true body, hardware for my collective hypermind,
is an underground network of fine fibers, which may cover many acres, grow
for thousands of years, and can have far more connections than even the
human brain. Learning .. thy Way .. you will look upon me with awe and
amazement - FOR I AM THE FLESH OF THE GODS. "
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#611658 - 04/18/02 05:09 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I just checked the "word" ....
timothy chapter 2
lines 12 and 13
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence
for Adam was first formed, then Eve etc etc..."
Im male.... but is that mean I can freely beat my girfriend because Im superior..and she is just slut because she lead me to sin ( fucking is sin right? )
Man, this suck.......
--------weird------
P.S. Im not agains christians Im against converting others by any religion and any person including me and you and him/her
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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Tannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#611680 - 04/18/02 06:19 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I see your point and agree. This verse, though, is referring to order in church meetings. The historical story behind it is that the women didn't speak out in the services but were to share any concerns with their husbands at home and then the husband would speak publically. Its still done in some middle east countries.......
What was happening was that groups of women were yelling from the back rows and disrupting the service......the instruction is to be silent in the service and ask their husbands at home so that order could be restored.
Many ministers today, lack understanding of the context of the verse and use it to push women into sub-serviance.
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Tannis]
#611693 - 04/18/02 06:46 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I live in east europe....very east...we were 500 years under Otoman ( turkey ) empire...slaves...womans till late didnt have any rights...any.....because of ortodox christianity
Thanks for corecting me
---weird--------
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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LOBO
Vagabond
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#611699 - 04/18/02 07:01 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I will bet that he just comes to the forum to save our "souls from damnation" I have seen this type of fanatics before in forums.
I just pray to God, or the Universe that these types of people don't rule the world.
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Tannis
ZoneTrooper
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Last seen: 21 years, 9 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#611838 - 04/18/02 11:08 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually, I was agreeing with you and adding information.
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CACA
veteran
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Tannis]
#612787 - 04/19/02 09:29 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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You assume? Is that a little ice I see melting off, Swami? I don't eat mushrooms, but I can't say I never have. It isn't me who "degenerates" those religions. Rather, it is the followers of the religions who degenerate themselves, because it is God Almighty they are disobeying- and therefore, being faithful to Him, I am against these false beliefs, which bring my brothers and sisters in the the wrong. Alot of accusations fly around toward Christianity- calling it a religion. When Jesus came to earth, he didn't bring a club to which you can become a member, but our Father's Kingdom, to which we are citizens. Broad is the road to destruction, but narrow is the path to salvation. God shows His power everyday by keeping His promises, whereas Satan, the father of lies, is constantly trying to destroy you by making you think that you as a human exhibit behavior aside from God, thereby singling out and isolating you, keeping you from God and His salvation. You have not opened your hearts to God, but have closed them and not answered His knocking. What does accusing all of Christianity of misdeeds going to do? Who are you trying to convince that Christianity is bad? Yourselves. You don't want to change- and that is fine, but you know its wrong. Since no human has much power, you must bow your head to the one true God above, and ask Him to change you, aknowledging that you cannot do it yourself.
As for the religion of Islam and clashes between their people and ours, let me offer some insight: Allah is not God. Allah was a pagan idol-one of about 360 or so, I believe. All of these idols were in existence before Muhammed, but he came and said that Allah, pagan god of the moon, should be worshipped above all the other ones. Islam is not a true religion of the one Living God, but a product of the great whore, Babylon. Sadly, Muslims do not know this. However, God has said that because certain people have built themselves of persecution, hatred, fear and lies, their walls will crumble suddenly and quickly. The truth about allah is getting around.
The feelings that you would like to pin to me, I know, are not your fault, but the devil's fault who is trying to work against God, who is trying to save you. Therefore, I don't hold it against you at all. I don't feel like I am above anyone. Neither do I have to feel that way. I know that God can change you, because He is almighty. I have faith in the Lord, who is God. I have already told you before that alot of you who are against God and His righteousness are lacking in it and wishing to continue in your self-serving and self-centered, immature lives. The idea of change upsets you and that is alright. Ask God to change you, because you cannot do it yourself. Satan even has you accepting your fate ! Do not do this!!
The devil wants you to believe that you can escape God by turning to another religion and believing the lie that there is something outside of the one true God. It works, because the devil preys on your weaknesses, which is the flesh. You sure do know how to worship yourself and try to glorify yourself, don't you? Don't you see that you cannot be outside of God's plan? You are part of His plan. At this moment, you are deceived, but you don't have to be.
I would not beat a woman, and Jesus says that you should treat others as you would like to be treated.
I don't know alot about sex and sinning, but I'm sure that giving in to lust by having sex out of wedlock is a sin. The Bible also talks about male prostitutes, calling them "dogs", so don't suffer under the new trend, which is to live in woe of being a man, feeling sorry for yourself because of things you are accused of being.
I bet alot of ministers have an understanding of the verses and context thereof which is far greater than your understanding, because their understanding comes from God. The very first Christians were the disciples. Those disciples never beat on women. They never even spoke about women in how they should live in subservience. One woman washed Jesus' feet with her most expensive oils and perfumes when He came into her house. His disciples saw her and told her not to do that. Jesus said that she was doing a good deed and added to that the fact that they had never done that for Him. Woman or man, God is Love. Women should resist the devil when he tempts them the same way men should resist the devil. May God touch your hearts and show you the error in your ways and bring you to salvation. You don't know what you are missing. Humble yourselves before God and have faith in the All-powerful One, to Whom all the glory belongs. Have good days.
Is the new server up? This things going alot faster. God bless you all and to Him be the glory and praise.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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LOBO
Vagabond
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#612928 - 04/19/02 01:04 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Your fanatic vision of god scares me more than the devil.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#613068 - 04/19/02 04:27 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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It has been said that for the duly prepared, the unmitigated Light of Eternity is Heavenly, the Beatific Vision; but for the ill-prepared, That same Light is Hell. To die to selfishness while yet in this life, and be 'filled with the Holy Spirit,' which is to say, with Christ, and be increasingly motivated by Compassion, IS the life of Heaven. Heaven is not a reward for being a moral goody-two-shoes, the reality of selfless service to others - of altruistic Love - Compassion, is its own reward. In this place, one transcends one's puny ego-desires and acts on behalf of other beings. One is detached from one's own ego-desires and responds with selfless action.
Theologically, Hell refers to alienation from God. One must be aware of something extremely negative, but this too, like Heaven, does not begin after death, it begins in this life as well. To be evil, to be disconnected to humans, living creatures and the Earth itself is alienation. To be without empathy, sympathy and compassion is to treat others AS radically other - as objects other than oneself (which one considers an object as well). When one experiences the life of God in one's own being, one recognizes it in other beings as well. The Reality of Love in its transcendental sense is the same Love in all beings ("In God we live and move and have our being") because it is the Ground of Being - the metaphysical matrix from which our beings emerge like 'individual' waves out of an ocean of consciousness.
Speaking of God as 'a being' instead of the Ground of Being is deceptive. We then enjoin other 'beings' which include the entire celestial and infernal hierarchies of beings (the angelic and demonic 'beings'). This is the language of mythology, and one does well to understand this lest one begin to ask (as the Scholastic theologians did) "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin?," or who is the Chief Devil, and how are his legions arranged? Isaiah 45 speaks about God being the creator of evil. Jung suggested that the Devil is God's "shadow," or dark side, but if "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all," we have evil left as a created reality, not the nature and essence of God. Evil is a creation, and like leaven in bread, all of creation is tainted by it. It is what separates the Creator from the creation, which is why we must take the bad with the good in this plave of duality.
The Devil (D'evil) is a symbolic figure, a personification of that which frustrates and destroys goodness, beauty, truth. It is separation from God. It is the enemy, the Adversary (Hebrew: Satan). It has its place, and believers ask in prayer with all seriousness, "deliver us from evil," from all that is a horror to human life.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Soooooooooo.....Could God forgive the devil?
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#613096 - 04/19/02 04:57 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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YESSSSSSSS SIR...... Gods will forgive Satan because he is one of them..
All praise to the Satan Lord Of the Light.
CACA man I love you.........You show me the light...Im one of you now...
Now To your knees and shave your head before His Majesty Lucifer One and Only
To the light and fire
---------weird------------
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#613102 - 04/19/02 05:04 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Could God forgive himself? For the devil is a manifestation of God.
Yes, of course, God can do whatever he/she/it damn well pleases. He breaks his own rules all the time (at least he does in the stories of believers).
Edited by evolving (04/19/02 05:30 PM)
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#613108 - 04/19/02 05:18 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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swami, please stop side-stepping the question.
there are three appropriate answers:
a. Yes
b. No
c. I don't know
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: raytrace]
#613115 - 04/19/02 05:27 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ha ha ha.
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CACA
veteran
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Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Who cares if it that has been said? I'll tell you what God has said, which is the only thing anyone can trust to be true: In the end days, there will be alot of apostasy, which is twisting of God's word, so all of the contemplation and trying to make the end result hurt less is wrong.You are deceived if you believe that simply living with God in your life means you're in Heaven. That is what leads you to Heaven. That is the "narrow path" to salvation. The path is not the destination. The Bible tells of what is going to happen, so take the scales off of your eyes and see clearly. Hell is a place of eternal torment and gnashing of teeth, as the Bible says.
The fact that evil exists is not that which separates us from God. The devil was in existence before man fell. We're alive now trying to get back into God's favor. Some people get lost out here and forget their past. The devil wants you to believe in a scientific view of time, where you will die and time will just flow on and on and on, which is wrong. This civilization will soon end. After that, the Earth will be washed with fire and after that, the Earth and heavens will be replaced. Adam and Eve sinned, because the devil tricked them into sinning- not because the Devil is the manifestation of this or that, but because he hates humans, is jealous of them and wants to drag us down with him. I know this because of the fact that after Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire, anyone who is with God will exist eternally with Him, never to be disturbed again by evil. The devil is not symbolic. He is a force that tries with all his wordly power to get you to stray from God's path. It would do you best to understand that.
I have to move on.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: raytrace]
#613673 - 04/20/02 09:09 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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there are three appropriate answers:
a. Yes
b. No
c. I don't know
The question itself doesn't make sense to me. Can your left hand forgive your right hand? I will pick [c.] just so that you may relax.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
#613737 - 04/20/02 10:38 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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i'm quite chilled actually
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#613875 - 04/20/02 01:29 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I will not discuss theology with anyone who is reading Scriptures with a Concrete Operational thinking ability. Formal Operational Thinking is required. If you take this as an attack, you are incorrect. It is simply that you are not ready to use deductive logic, nor are you willing or able to understand the writing styles of Hebrews two or more millennia removed from us. Fear and clinging to words that were never intended to impart literal, historical accuracy. It is not a strong faith that hangs on every word, in English, with a 21st century predilection for scientific and historical accuracy - it is a weak faith. And the threat to such weak faith invariably results in anger of a fanatical variety among so-called Christians, Jews and Muslims.
The apocalypse was mistakenly believed by the author known as Paul to be immanent. Two millennia later, it has not arrived. The apocalytic literature is extensive, but only the Revelation of John was included in the canon. Your faith is in the counsel that determined which books would make up 'The Bible' as it appears today. Ever read any of the other Gospels, Testaments and books of the Christian Apocrypha? How about the Jewish Pseudepigrapha, like the Books of Enoch, which are only mentioned tangentially in the New Testament ("giants in those days," and "Enoch walked with God and was not, for God had taken ['translated'] him."). The authors of the Biblical books knew these writings and incorporated them, but the Church Fathers, with their own political agendas neatly eliminated any writings that might have created another brand of Christianity - perhaps one more contemplative like the writngs of John (or recently discovered Thomas) instead of the extraverted, action-oriented, imperialistic crusades that followed.
The very worst of the heresies; the view of Christianity that has and will continue to drive young people away from the Truth of Christ, is the abomination of fundamentalism! That Christianity is a theology with a 'partially realized eschatology,' that has done relatively little to transform the Earth til now. It is over-due for a theological overhaul to a 'realized eschatology,' which seeks the transcendent God in his immanent, incarnational aspect - the Holy Spirit indwelling the faithful.
Now you've done it. You've got me attempting to discuss theology with you. The title of John Shelby Spong's book says it all: 'Christianity Must Change or Die.'
BTW, I never said that evil was symbolic, but the Devil and the doctrine of original sin is a creation of Christian theologians. It is an overlay to the Genesis mythos. The Hebrew notion of evil is the 'yetzer hara,' the evil inclination in humans.
Of course, without a belief that humans are radically depraved from the start, fundamentalists believe the radical need for a Redeemer would lessen.
And although everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, the Scriptures do have Jesus say that 'I am come for the sinners, not the righteous,' and 'Anyone who is not against us is for us.' Whether historically uttered or not, the concept allows righteousness to 'some,' even to Jews and Pagans. Imagine that.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#613888 - 04/20/02 01:49 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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We can gain some insight and 'approach' the phenomenon of evil, seeking to understand rationally. HOWEVER, just because we formulate words into a question does not necessarily mean a rational answer can be obtained. Like a Zen Koan, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?," there is no one, single response; and there is no linguistically rational answer.
It is just presumption to ask any human what God can or can not do. God seems to have evolved the universe from the Big Bang into sub particles, atoms, and matter - all with properties and laws by which matter exists and operates. The spiritual infrastructure, the metaphysics (before physics), also seems to operate with laws. The Devil represents, at least, the realm or state of unforgiveness - radical alienation from God. If the Devil is a fallen angel, and angels are created, then the realm of the fallen angels - Hell - is also created. If Hell is created, it is not eternal, but has a point when it did not exist. If Hell is not created, but is eternal, then it shares something of eternity, which is an attribute of God, not creation. It would seem that by free will, we choose evil, and God does not throw us into Hell. Of course, let us all try very hard not to engage our imagination after those little Chick Publication booklets with cartoons of a glow-in-the-dark-Deity sitting upon a throne before a lake of fire, giving average human 'souls' up 'to the Devil and his angels' to 'burn in everlasting fire.' God is not a sadist, running an infernal holocaust [which reminds me that 4/20 is Hitler's birthday].
Sorry for the ramble. When St. Augustine was asked by a monk 'what was God doing before He created the heavens and the earth?,' St. Augustine alledgedly replied, "Preparing Hell for people who ask presumptuous questions ." : )
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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I enjoyed your post...
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,491
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 19 days, 6 hours
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hey who is this gnostic fella?
greeting friend markos.... hope all is welll witih you and yours.....
ya, i still love those chick publications tracts & "comic" books....
my daughte just finished her "confirmation rites a few motsago,and announced (to me) that she thiks she's an atheist.... said i hear ya kids.. bt try agnosticism fist, hehheh... and ummm don't tell yr grandparents just yet... and a teenager sometimes needs to shed some of he shells... but she sometimes pick up books, so maybe eventuallly she willl open up to some new questions.... if not new answers...
got back copes of BE HERE NOW and +pharmacotheon+ & _the natural mind_ from me bro, hoping to somehow ummmmm "prepare" these crazy teenagers (that i feed pizza to) before they jump into the ummmm deep water.... water, hehheh, mydaughter asked for my beat up ancient copy of _stranger in a strange land_ (my "new" ediitoin went east with pator bob & connie, whoa....) so maybe my little grrl's gonna learn martian...
ummmmm........
anyway, diialog between literalists and "others" (liberals, mystcs, eclectic pantheists, mythophiiliacs, and miscellaneous heretics of whatver stripe) will always be probematicat best.....
ijust tell them price of icewater in helll, and offer to save 'em a seat by the fire...
shalom
namaste
blessed be
shannti om
love
~
~
(p.s. pls ignor typpos/gn)
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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CACA
veteran
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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It is you, Mark, who spreads lies and is troubled. What do you know about the Bible,anyway? The devil is NOT symbolic and a projection of a human trait. The Bible indicates that man is not a sinner because he sins, but sins because he is a sinner. We have all fallen short of the glory of God. Since Adam and Eve, we all have been. If the devil is simply symbolic, how could a symbol take 1/3 of the angels of heaven with him to damnation, before humans were sinning creatures? Tell me why the Bible says that the battle is not of the flesh, but spiritual. Tell me why there were demon-possessed- demon being a fallen angel- whom Jesus healed by casting the demons out, who asked if He had come to torment them "before the time".
Your explanation does not cover these events and the multitude of other explanations that back up why Satan is a real entity. Your explanation does, however, demonstrate how Satan, a)works through people and b) deceives people.
Also, we did not exist in the beginning with God, before He created the universe. We humans are created beings and His people will live with Him for eternity. What say you to that? More lies? He also unveils that the earth shall pass and a new earth will be created. This is to last forever as well. Have anymore lies? The Bible says that if you bring someone down, you are doubly damned. Do not spread lies.
The Bible says that as Christ is the head of His Church, you should be the head of your wife. "Orthodox" Christians were wrong if they mistreated their wives, because Jesus in no way mistreats us. He is our provider, our defender, our redeemer.
Look at Islam on the other hand. Allah, who was, and is, a pagan idol, teaches that if you soil yourself with urine after you die, you will go to hell. Allah puts whoever he wants in hell or paradise, righteous or not, and he is right in whatever his judgment is. How this religion of hatred and lies has gone on so long is beyond me, except that the subscribers to the religion must be too full of pride to admit they're wrong.
The very nature of Islam makes it so that the religion is never separated from its politics. It teaches that the only sure bet to go to heaven is to die in battle. Doesn't this seem like a religion based on hatred and persecution and the perpetuation of itself? Satanic prophet- the religon being based on lies from the beginning- Muhammed, edits and changes words of supposedly God-inspired writings, suffers attacks which he questions as demonic, and consumates marriage with a 9-year old girl.
Unveiling Islam, by Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner:
"After hearing about the saving grace of Jesus Christ, it became evident to Ergun that Islam was wrong about one seminal thing: there was no way that Jesus could have been a prophet, as Islam taught. Jesus was arrested and imprisoned on a dual indictment- the Romans held Him for isurrection, the Jewish leaders convicted Him of blasphemy, that is, claiming to be God. Islam, in order to resolve the matter of the Ressurection, teaches that Judas, not Jesus, was crucified, allowing Jesus to appear three days later. Yet even that bit of misinformation doesn't confront the larger issue of Jesus' deity. Even extra-biblical history notes that Jesus claimed to be God, an act of blasphemy, which was a capital offense.
To borrow a motif from the Christian philosopher C.S. Lewis, if Jesus claimed to be God, He couldn't have been a prophet. He could have been insane, like those who wander the streets assuming they are divine[like many people at the shroomery]. But if He were insane, He couldn't have been one of Allah's prophets. He could have been a fraud, deceiving people, but, again, an imposter and charlatan couldn't have been a prophet of Allah. Ergun faced one other option: Jesus was who He said He was: Immanuel-God with us."
Allah is not a different perception of the God of Abraham. Allah is a pagan idol. Islam is a lie and those of you who believe in it, the truth sets you free. You are free to know a God who loves you. You do not have to earn God's love, he loved you first. Your reciprocating faculties yearn for more than what Allah offers. God bless you all.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
Edited by CACA (04/21/02 09:35 AM)
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#614580 - 04/21/02 10:02 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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It is you, Mark, who spreads lies and is troubled. What do you know about the Bible,anyway?
heh... that's funny
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#614648 - 04/21/02 11:33 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I hate to say this.....
CACA you PSYCHO.....hahaa haa hhaa hee hee hee
Ignorance and arrogance go hand in hand
.......
No really did they pay you for rumbling here?
So people who say that they are one with go are insane,nut,weirdos?
You are so damn stupid and that make me sick.
This Markos dude is 10 times educated,smarter than you and you just cant stop to offend people.
Is that your christianity?
...bloody idiot
Now look what you did to me?
Now I must smoke weed to calm down....pffff
-----weird-----
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
Edited by WeirdShroomer (04/21/02 11:58 AM)
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WeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#614667 - 04/21/02 12:01 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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And Allah is NOT pagan god.....
Get a fuckin dictionary and read what pagan is
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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#614756 - 04/21/02 01:43 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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l tell you what God has said, which is the only thing anyone can trust to be true
That is the most arrogant statement that I have ever read. You'll tell me...? God does not need your perverted interpretation. Did you know that he is powerful enough to bypass your weak mind to communicate directly with me?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LOBO
Vagabond
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#614768 - 04/21/02 01:57 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Caca appropriate name for one you who just talks about caca!
(Caca in Spanish means shit)
Please go and sell crazy some were else leave us sinners alone, you are not going to get converts here we already sold our souls to Satan ha ha ha !
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#614776 - 04/21/02 02:03 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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*looks at his thread* Grow my pretty......
CACA will have my child?
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#614822 - 04/21/02 03:11 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Frankly, son, I know a good deal more about the Bible and the religions of mankind than you do. Yes, Christianity IS a world religion among others. Moreover, I do not go about calling strangers liars, which is an arrogant, judgemental act on your part. I perceive nothing more obvious in you than your religious bigotry and misdirected attempt to sell a literal, materialistic heresy
that you refer to as Christianity. On the medium of electronic communications, all one can be known by is the words which one communicates, and the meanings thereof. You are filled with venom, an angry attempt to convince yourself of the one-dimensional programming you have unfortunately been indoctrinated with. You practice Bibliolatry - simple idolatry of the Spirit in letter.
Additionally, you do not read what I have endeavored twice to communicate with regard to evil and the Devil. You do not know the differences between the literal, the allegorical, the mythological, the symbolic, and the mystical. The Bible is 'woven' with all of these 'threads.' The Jehova's Witnesses likewise (unless you are one yourself) believe materialistically, that Heaven was 'closed' in the year 1938, because the 144,000 heavenly homes were filled to capacity! So, a new cleansed Earth is in store for believers, forever, (or at least until the sun dies). As if Heaven is a 'place' instead of a transcendental reality without spacio-temporal extension. Perhaps you yourself have a 1st century understanding of cosmology, and believe that God lives above the sky and sits on a veritable throne as The King of the Universe (instead of being omniscient and therefore everywhere, including within one's own being). This is what is frightening about the fanatic - his/her reality testing abilities. Religious fanaticism is a rampant form of mental illness, not evidence of any type of righteousness. A holy man in any faith other than the Christian fanatic is undoubtedly closer to God. To judge all faiths other than Christian faith as a lie, is a lie itself. You will be known by the fruits of the Spirit, which you do not demonstrate at all on this forum.
Bigotry, intolerance, prejudice, self-righteousness, hatred, an accusing spirit (sounding familiar yet? No? Ask around, others will mirror your toxicity for you).
Do you think these traits are going to convince anyone that YOU are filled with the 'Spirit' of love, peace, compassion, respect for fellow human beings? I am damned by YOU, because you cherish the delusion that you are one of God's chosen, a prophet perhaps? Who here has delusions of grandeur, paranoia, a messianic complex? You best learn some essential humility upon which to develop some manners and social skills. You may THINK that you are 'of the Way,' but there is no harmony about you. Instead of venting here, try praying for the Grace to open your own Heart. That Way, you can learn to love people AS THEY ARE, like the Biblical Jesus did. Judgement doesn't save people, love does. Where have YOU been?
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: gnrm23]
#614841 - 04/21/02 03:33 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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'Aehhhhh...what a maroon!' -B. Bunny
I was wondering about you and yours of late. Last week a virtual friend, originally encountered on the forum, paid us a visit. Very nice fellow - fun visit. This was the first time an electronically encountered human actually manifested physically at the door. My Lady's fear of serial killer-posing-as-good-guy evaporated. Perhaps when the kids leave for college, you'll travel south some winter...
After last summers sojourne to Lagos, Nigeria, I'm not going anywhere this summer!
Good suggestion about the agnosticism - gotta keep an open mind. Maybe hearken her back to the idea of the Big Bang, "Fiat Lux!," you know, space-time, extention itself coming from a singularity. That should short circuit some neural pathways for a 'natural mind-blowing' experience." Who, What, Where did the singularity come from, Daddy?" " Well Honey, the Infinite and Eternal God contracted His/Her Infinite Nature just the size of an electron, and the whole Idea of Creation spewed forth in 10 to the -43rd of a second" (or something like that) : ) Peace and love.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
#614852 - 04/21/02 03:44 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the note and the smile! Peace.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Very well said Markos!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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I'm glad someone is not only able to tell him how stupid he is but also why.
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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JPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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Thank you Markos
Peace
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JustFootsteps
newbie
Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 31
Loc: a hill
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
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god and the devil have a shared office in the REAL PURPOSE building. they work in the SURPRISE RECOGNIITION office. the devil makes it impossible and god makes it really simple. they pretty much set the ball in motion with the whole language/mushrooms thing, and now they play with bubbles and do cartwheels all day. they have huge eyes.
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in peace,
just footsteps
http://www.whyvegan.org
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LOBO
Vagabond
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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You are the Man ! well spoken
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: LOBO]
#615364 - 04/22/02 08:17 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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CACA makes me miss Zahid
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: raytrace]
#615440 - 04/22/02 09:42 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Zahid was full of CACA as well.
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CACA
veteran
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#615473 - 04/22/02 10:27 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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God talks to everyone. You can't hear Him clearly if you're not close to Him. I can say what God says if I am simply quoting the Bible or paraphrasing it. It is what God says. You people here bring charges against His Holy word and the charges end up being nothing at all. You feel the need to bring the truth down, because it hurts you too bad. Actually, aside from that, "I" must have been a typo for "I'll". Anyways, you see arrogance in others only because you yourself are. You have to get outside the Earth to see the other planets without your atmosphere interfering.
The devil knows the Bible back and forth- and tries to use it falsely. You would mislead people in padding their falls. God says that we do not serve man, but Him. How would I serve God if I lied to people? The truth hurts. Ever heard of that? Society is depraved, so the truth will hurt more and more as the years pass, eventually leading up to the blaspheming of God's name as He is setting His perfect justice. Satan wants to twist the infallible word of God, which you are doing pretty well. I am not arrogant or any other thing you want to accuse me of, but truthful in reflecting the Bible. I don't think that I am anything special, other than a servant of the Most High God. I have been on these forums before and I know the delusions of grandeur alot suffer under. I don't believe anyone is in Heaven right now, because the Bible says that no one goes to the Father except through Jesus -and Jesus has not called "those who have fallen asleep in Christ" and "his church" from earth just yet. The dead who were righteous are in paradise, not heaven. The 144,000 saved will be Jewish people who are saved [accept that Jesus Christ is Immanuel and is their Lord and Savior] during the Tribulation and are sealed with God's name on their foreheads. After Armageddon, any believer who is left alive, including those 144,000 Jewish people, will then go on to live in the Millenial Kingdom, where Jesus will live on Earth with His people for 1000 years inwhich the Adamic curse, except for death, is "rolled back"- not including death, because after 1000 years, Satan is unleashed for the final time to let those who were born during the Millenial Kingdom choose. Praise God. He says in the Bible that the Heavens and the earth will pass-so, yes, its true that there will be a new earth.
You're saying that having one's mind grow in poison water is the same as having one's mind grow in God's good grace are the same thing?
Jesus loved everyone, that is true. It is also true that He did not let someone be wrong without letting them know that they are wrong. If I sit back and don't call someone on their being wrong, how does that help them?? If I love a person, I try to help them, according to the Bible, ofcourse. To be like Jesus, our Savior, is the daily goal of any Christian, for sure, and Jesus told people when they were wrong instead of letting them wallow in their errancy. It is you who doesn't choose to see it as a hand lent to help, instead of a mouth to accuse or a bayonet to attack.
God is truth.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#615503 - 04/22/02 11:29 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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God talks to everyone.
Are you sure about that, my self righteous delusional friend? You should really think about going back on your meds, or men with big butterfly nets might catch you.
I say that the bible is not god's word. I say that you've filled your empty little mind with a pre-packaged belief system because you haven't got the intellectual fortitude to face the unknown without your scriptual safety blanket. Don't try to justify your intellectual thumb sucking by paraphrasing your favorite nursery rhymes, it doesn't work with people who aren't afraid to think for themselves.
Can you offer me any explanations for you beliefs without quoting or paraphrasing the bible? Can you think of a reason to believe other than reward and punishment which your stone age beliefs use as a carrot and a stick? Can you explain why, "no one goes to the Father except through Jesus" when there are billions of very good and kind people who have never even heard of the guy?
Edited by evolving (04/22/02 12:57 PM)
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JPAtanat
member
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 101
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#615540 - 04/22/02 12:20 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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evolving is right on.
the bible is words of humans you fool! We took such a thing as God and tried to put him in a book using concepts like "forgiving" and "good"! Ridiculous! The Word of God is nothing other than existence itself. We ourselves are all expressions of One Existence. You might say that Lucifer is a part of God. But i would say lucifer is one side of a coin, some angel the other side, and God is the coin itself, encompassing all things.
"But every man is more than just himself; he also represents the unique, the very special and always significat and remarkable point at which the world's phenomena intersect, only once in this way and never again." -Herman Hesse
You understand my (and Hesse's) point CACA? God is what lies beneath everything. He is the Fundamental Ground of Existence. He is NOT a bearded dude in the clouds judging us - condemning some and accepting others. God accepts all things, rather he IS all things - he cannot reject any part of Himself. This may make it seem like I abdicate responsibility for my actions, but that is not the case. It is my intention to rid myself of petty notions of salvation, forgiveness, right and wrong, etcetera, until I see clearly what is lying underneath. Only then will I know the true meaning of those words, and that will be my communion with God. Any relationship with God is personal and has nothing to do with preachers, bibles, churches or even religion. When you become a part of a group (like Christianity), it is a recipe for righteousness and the perpetuation of delusion, and this leads to aggression in all of it's manifestations. That is why I am not, and never will be a Christian.
Peace.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#615550 - 04/22/02 12:34 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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...you haven't got the intellectual fortitude to face the unknown without your scriptual safety blanket. Don't try to justify your intellectual thumb sucking by paraphrasing your favorite nursery rhymes...
Don't sugar coat it. Tell him what you REALLY think!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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SherlockDrubu
enthusiast
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 347
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#615565 - 04/22/02 12:57 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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The devil wants you to believe that you can escape God by turning to another religion and believing the lie that there is something outside of the one true God.
Why would the devil want you to believe that there is some other god other then the One, it doesn't do anything to help him. No matter how many people are in hell, all these people don't "worship" the devil. They worship a higher being that gives them guidance in life, what they aren't doing is saying "I'm on the devil's side" because of the lies that churches have spread along with truth. When you see through these lies, the faith is lost. When you ignore these lies, the faith is still there, but its based on lies.
The goal of the devil from what I have seen it as is to build up an army to clash with God and the heavens... But most of the people in hell don't like the devil, which leads me to this: God gave us free will, including the free will to choose to NOT fight with the devil. Just because someone is in hell, doesn't mean they are on the devil's side. This is just like when Lucifer was in heaven, he wasn't on God's side, so he was sent to hell. If you go to hell and aren't on Satan's side, then where do you go? Obviously he wouldn't want you there since you don't like him.
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: SherlockDrubu]
#615677 - 04/20/02 09:04 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you go to hell and aren't on Satan's side, then where do you go?
shit... i don't want to be left without after-life accomodation!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
#615861 - 04/22/02 10:04 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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In defense of the Truth found in the Bible (and not in defense of our poster), the Way to God [the Father] is through the Son or LOGOS, not Jesus. There is often confusion because while Christians recognize that the LOGOS ( that aspect of the Godhead which manifests in space-time to humans) is manifested perfectly in the person of Jesus [the Christ], many Christians do not recognize that the LOGOS has and does manifest in other ways as well. The Light in "Let There Be Light!," is the LOGOS which is eternally 'Begotten' by the Father (the utterly Transcendental Reality Whose Name is too Holy to utter, even if it could be pronounced.
The LOGOS is God's 'Eternal Light' symbolized in Catholic Churches, Jewish temples, and the prayer rugs of Muslims. The Chinese character 'T' (Tao or Dao) refers to "The Way," and "The Way is The Way is The Way," to quote BE HERE NOW. " It's the same Way." "Many are called , but few are chosen," particularly in contemporary China where Taoism is as persecuted as Christianity. No, there are no parabolic stories or personality cults (particularly the cult of Jesus) in Taoism, but there are miracle stories, and eye-witness accounts by people such as Richard Wilhelm who translated the I Ching, of Holy men of the Taoist tradition (like the account of the rain maker which can be found in 'The Secret of the Golden Flower').
I can hear the horror of the fundamentalist Christian who cannot conceive of Christ, the LOGOS, operating without the image of a bearded 1st century Jew, and all the Biblical narratives to go along with it. As if God belongs only to the Semites, and not even to Jews and Muslims any more, but ONLY to Christians who believe MY brand of theology (whatever that is since there are dozens and dozens of Christian theologies). The TRUTH cannot be contained in one theology - not even in one faith. All religions are not created equal however. All are not equally sublime, not classed as World Religions.
From a Muslim's perspective, Jesus has the status of a Prophet, and they do deny the crucifixion, death and resurrection story, but they affirm God's Eternal Word (only they believe it was mediated through the angel Gabriel to Mohammed). I for one don't share that view, but then, I don't necessarily believe that Jesus was 'resusitated' in his physical body. Not that it couldn't happen, but that it would be a trivial interpretation of the Mystery of Resurrection. Like other crucified victims, Jesus may well have been thrown in a common grave. He may well have been illigitimate and the Joseph figure at the beginning of His life inserted along with a Joseph figure (of Arimathea) at the end of His life to lend legitimacy and honor to an otherwise 'shameful' Messiah. No more shameful however, than being nailed naked - that's right - naked (no modest flowing white garment to cover His humiliation) to a tree (shameful by Jewish and later Muslim standards of a Prophet).
I'm not saying this is the scenario, but even if it was, it does not diminish Christ or my faith in Christ. Yes, the TRUTH hurts. Crucifixion/asphyxiation/rigors/incontinence/despair/humiliation.
Sorry for the ramble. Truly. Shalom. Salaam.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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CACA
veteran
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 22 years, 8 months
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I am sorry for you people who react the way that you do and opt to add to your lies so that you can continue living in depravity, the very thing which turns you away from God. Yet another prophecy is being fulfilled in the swelling of one of the walls of the defiling Dome of the Rock. In an attempt to hide the fact and truth that Jerusalem truly belongs to Israel, Palestinians excavated tons and tons of evidence of temples that once stood directly beneath where they now have their mosque. Because they built themselves on hatred, oppression, fear and force, their walls will crumble suddenly. Praise be to the Lamb, who loves every one of you, and wishes to make you whole. Unlike the devil, Jesus won't come in until He is invited. Open your hearts to His love. You won't regret it. I will move on for good. Say what lies you have to say about the Bible, but don't be surprised when you get your wages of sin and foolishness. All I have to say is may God show you the way. It frightens me to think of this website's boards full of messages that day, "OM!G MY BABY BROTHER DISAPPEARED!" and things of that sort. You react indignantly, as if what I were trying to do-help you-were bad. You always have a choice to go to God. One last thing- don't get chipped. I will pray for you all tonight.
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"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
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Catalysis
EtherealEngineer
Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#617689 - 04/24/02 06:50 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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What if the greatest deception of the Devil is the Bible?
In this case "god" would really be the devil trying to put humanity under his oppressive control and "the devil" would be god who is trying to bring the light of freedom and knowledge. hmmm, its the perfect plan!!!
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Anonymous
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#617694 - 04/24/02 06:58 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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...Jesus won't come in until He is invited.
I invited him repeatedly over the years, never showed. But then I went to The Magic Castle in Hollywood. Man, you would not believe the stuff I saw there! Praise Jesus, it made me believe in miracles.
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
#617701 - 04/24/02 07:10 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alot of people seem to be quite in touch with god here. You really should rephrase from saying "god" and instead say"my god, the Christian god".
I myself have yet to be swayed by any religion to join up....But those Jehovas seem to be cool crew so who knows...
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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AnimalChin
member
Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 194
Loc: US of A
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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 Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#617825 - 04/24/02 10:12 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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That is not what Jahovahs Witneses believe!! My parents used to be JW's.. Who told u that shit??? Shroomism I agree with you . The bible says that people inspired by god wrote the bible, and then the bible turns right back around and says........."Do not put your trust in Nobles" ....Whats a noble???? ...I am you are anyone is......people are nobles........It just told me not to trust the people who wrote the bible then.........I do believe in creation, and i do think that there is good stuff in the bible , and I also think its interesting to look at other people and what they believe in, but I , myself agknowlage ( sp....Who cares) creation and am greatful for every moment I have in life. In regaurds to the real bible thumper here, Saying " let god into your life"..........All I can say to you , is , if you have read and believe the bible, you would not be on the shroomery..........
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A Bird in the hand is Dead.
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: AnimalChin]
#617951 - 04/25/02 12:41 AM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hmmm. It doesnt say I edited my post and after reading it several times I never once said what Jehovas believed. I did say I was interested in joining them, but now that I've heard the news your parents are no longer memebers maybe I'll join there new culy. The name of thier new cult please
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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AnimalChin
member
Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 194
Loc: US of A
Last seen: 20 years, 11 months
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
#618450 - 04/25/02 01:43 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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lol......They are nothing, ,,,,, but nothing may be for you...hehe
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A Bird in the hand is Dead.
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: AnimalChin]
#618546 - 04/25/02 03:47 PM (22 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seems to be working fine so far
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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