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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Christ died for our sins?
    #1962831 - 09/29/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what Christians mean when they say Christ died for our sins. So does that mean all our sins are forgiven? If that's the case, then why would anyone not go to heaven?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1962851 - 09/29/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, Christ died for all our sins. Yet you yourself, not your mother, or father, or best friend can make the decision for you. You have to acknowledge the fact that Christ was born of a virgin, lived a perfect, sinless life (which was necessary to die for our sins), died on the cross, and was resurrected. Once you truly, sincerely accept Christ, ALL sins, past and present, are forgiven. Let me go ahead and share the Gospel for you. The ABC's:

A- Admit. Admit that you are a sinner.
B- Believe. Believe that Jesus died for your sins.
C- Confess. Confess that you are a new creation.

It's that easy! Try to find a church that you like. Yes, you may noth agree with everything, but churches are not just about listening to a pastor. It's about fellowship. Christianity are for imperfect people, because nobody's perfect. But through Christ and the Holy spirit we can work together to overcome our differences. Even if we can't exactly see eye-to-eye, we can still walk arm-in-arm. SilverSoul7, God and Christ will always be there for you, and so will I. God bless.


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OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1962855 - 09/29/03 03:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> So does that mean all our sins are forgiven?

The way I understand it (as a non-christian) is that before Christ came along, we were stuck with our sins. Once you picked them up there was no getting rid of them.

When Christ came along, and died for our sins, he provided us a way to ditch the sins that we have been collecting by asking for forgiveness through him.

> If that's the case, then why would anyone not go to heaven?

Because you have to accept Jesus into your heart and ask him to forgive you for your sins. If you don't do that, then you are not a christian, and you will burn in hell with the rest of us for all eternity.

Maybe Enter or one of the other Christian members on the board can clear this up a bit better than I.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Seuss]
    #1962865 - 09/29/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you truly, sincerely send me money, or even just some food or some marijuana, I, fireworks_god, will forgive you all of your sins.
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Funguy]
    #1962868 - 09/29/03 03:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So I have to blindly accept certain unproven assertions as fact in order to be forgiven? Sounds too conditional for you to honestly say he died for all our sins. Seems like you're saying in effect that he died only for the sins of those who worship him.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Seuss]
    #1962870 - 09/29/03 03:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Jesus rebelled against scapegoat-ism. He choose to be the last scapegoat, a last offering to appease God, so no human after him would have to sacrifice anything unto God to be forgiven for his sins. Check the writings of Paul Ricoeur and R?n? Girard on this issue.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1962894 - 09/29/03 03:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If you look at how many different denominations there are, there are many different ways people interrupt the idea of ?Christ dying for our sins?. The general idea however, is that before the New Testament, there were many rules to obey, but after Jesus came and made ?his sacrifice?, those rules essential became obsolete. People no longer had to live in fear of sin if they accepted Jesus as ?their savoir? which redeemed them from their sins against God. Now that?s the basic theology, however different people have different details and beliefs along those lines.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1962896 - 09/29/03 03:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As far as I'm concerned all our sins are forgiven whether Christ died or not. That's not to trivialize Christ's life and sacrafice coz he was a rad guy.... but before Christ did everyone go straight to hell? How about amazing people that didn't accept Christ as thier personal saviour... is gandhi in hell?


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1962898 - 09/29/03 03:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Before Christ came along, the Jewish people had to have an atonement sacrifice once a year to cleanse the people of the sins for that year. Christ's 1st coming was prophesied several times in the Old Testament (the first time in Genesis). In the wilderness, God sent poisonous snakes to the Israelites because of their complaining. Moses went before God on the people's behalf. God told Moses to build a bronze serpent on a staff and have the people look at it. Anybody who just looked and the serpent would be spared.
Imagine some of these people's thoughts. Some looked right away, others fought the idea, then looked. Still some decided that it was a crock, and didn't look, therefore they died. Something that was so easy and free, yet they didn't believe. Yes, I know what many of you think about the Bible, and it may have its inconsistencies, but I still believe that it is the infallible word of God.

SilverSoul7, Christ was basically God in the flesh. You cannot accept that Christ died for your sins and then denouce the Christian faith. You become a Christian. It is not an easy road, and you will not find all of the answers. I still have questions about the Bible, most of which cannot be answered by humans. It is hard to accept something for which you have no proof, yet Christ hiself said that those who see and believe are good, those who do not see and still believe are great. I left my Bible at home so I cannot directly quote the scripture.
I became a Christian at a young age, and I have fallen away and came back. I now believe based on my own accord, not force-fed religious dogma that I have received from various individuals (though many Christians are not like that).
Here is a great website that I recommend:
www.godandscience.com

"Many people will hate you because of me."


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OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Funguy]
    #1962906 - 09/29/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

sorry, it's www.godandscience.org

That stuff is always confusing.


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OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Alan Stone]
    #1962907 - 09/29/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

bob dobbs promises salvation or double your money back...
or at least a really good excuse to hand in to the gatekeeper...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1962925 - 09/29/03 04:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

well...
christianity went through some major convolutions during its first couple/three centuries of development...
and has blended several quite different takes on how the universe is put together and our place in it (galillean phariseeism, essenism, zealotism, gnosticism... with different "takes" on the situation from the jerusalem church, from the far-flung gentile communities (many founded or influenced by saul/paul), from john (the gospel author, and the revelations author, tho prolly not the same guy), and of course input from gentilism & competing mystery cults like mithraism, etc...)
one thing is fairly certain --- the crucified carpenter/rabbi/massiach would prolly not even recognize the organization which claims to be made up of his modern-day disciples...
oy veh, don't even get me started...
shalom...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1962951 - 09/29/03 04:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

well, I just ate 10 babies and raped a retarded 10 year old.

But thats OK, because Christ died for my sins, and all I have to do is believe that and I can eat as many babies as I want
:rolleyes:


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1962956 - 09/29/03 04:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> But thats OK, because Christ died for my sins, and all I have to do is believe that and I can eat as many babies as I want

Nope, it doesn't work like that. You have to repent, otherwise you are just pissing in the wind pretending that your not getting wet.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Seuss]
    #1962969 - 09/29/03 04:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, OK.

"sorry jesus, for eating all those babies."

now I'm in the clear


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1962978 - 09/29/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> now I'm in the clear

Yep... :grin:  (assuming you are truly repentant)


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1962981 - 09/29/03 04:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You cannot just say you're sorry. You have to truly repent, and not want to ever do it again. You may and probably will slip up, but your faith in Christ can help you. Even true Christians are human beings, and all humans make mistakes. Salvation is available to ALL, if you truly believe.


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1962985 - 09/29/03 04:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So I have to blindly accept certain unproven assertions as fact in order to be forgiven? Sounds too conditional for you to honestly say he died for all our sins. Seems like you're saying in effect that he died only for the sins of those who worship him.


You must have faith. You also must have perspective. How are they unproven assertions? Do you claim that the bible is a lie?

So, here is my take on it.

In the beginning, God created Adam and Eve. He intended for them to live in paradise forever, with no death and no suffering. He only asked of them that they not eat from the tree of knowledge. This is the start of free will. He asked them to make a choice, but he left the tree there to give them the option of making their own choice because worship with no will is pretty pointless, the Lord might as well of just created some robots. Of course, we know what choice they made.

Upon eating from the tree of knowledge they gained just that... knowledge and sin (death) the seperation of themselves from God. Prior to Jesus's crucifixion there was no redemption for your sins, because we as humans are eternally flawed. We fuck up. We are far from perfect. Alot of people dont accept christianity and say, Im not worthy of original sin. Ive done nothing wrong.. they cant acknowledge their humble nature and the fact that they are short of perfection. They also dont filter and decipher original sin for themselves.. and what the word sin really entails.

You said that it seems like he only died for the sins of those that worship him. That isnt true. Previously there was little hope for a flawed and imperfect man to ever be with God. All sins were created equally.. So wether you coveted or murdered.. it was equal. You fell short of the Glory of God. When he sent Jesus to die on the cross, he died for all men, his life was traded for their forgiveness all they had to do was have faith, to believe. Why would someone who didnt accept that be any different then those before? To whom much is given, much is required. Life is not a free ride and its a pretty small thing to ask that we just accept that we are flawed, that were arent perfect, that most of the time, we dont get it right. To think otherwise is to aspire to be God. To think that you are perfectly deserving, perfectly divine.

My .02


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OfflineJhadAgainstReality
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: Funguy]
    #1963002 - 09/29/03 04:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

this is the first board ive been on where christians and nonchristians can discuss stuff like this without it leading to a 9 page flaming session of back-and-forth bullshit.


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"Listen Bush, i dont have any weapons. are you listening asshole? i dont have any fucking weapons! whats your problem, you fucking prick? Do you, like, WANT to go to war or something?! hey! whats all that laughter? whats so fucking funny?! Bush? BUSH! *click* Hello? HELLO?"


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Christ died for our sins? [Re: JhadAgainstReality]
    #1963096 - 09/29/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I really feel that most of the people in this thread who are asking questions are really doing so on a quest for knowledge. It's not a "lets ask the Christian a question so we can laugh at them." To me, eternal salvation for others is an important thing to me (and to God), that is why I am posting. I do this out of love, not because I want to conform as many people as I can. I don't want people to go to Hell.
I'm sure this can remain an open, intellectual discussion without flames as long as people don't start making fun of each other. Many people have poked fun at Christianity, but have I ever made fun of what they believe?


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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