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Does God Exist? part one
    #544039 -

My question is this:
Who here believes in a single, omnipotent, and all knowing GOD? I am trying to do this in two parts. (kind of like a experiment, wich should pleases the swamster!) I am not looking for personal beliefs and theories at this time. (however I will in a future post in part 2) A simple yes or no will do just fine. I know it will be a boring thread untill I collect my "data" as it were, but I promise to get into interesting territory in the second part of this whole charade. For now I just want to put belief or non belief with some names. Thank you for your participation!!!!!!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544077 -

no


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544115 -

Why are you putting names with unbelief/belief? Are analysing me/us?


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: carbonhoots]
    #544128 -

Who created Adam and Eve then? If there is no god.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: carbonhoots]
    #544159 -

Nothing personal, I assure you. I am just using answers to support or not support a theory. your answer is appreciated!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544196 -

"Who created Adam and Eve then? If there is no god."
what the fuck kind of retarded logic is that?


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544235 -

Who created Adam and Eve then? If there is no god.
The chicken, of course!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #544237 -

God is said to have created adam and eve, if he did not who did? Then there is a god, right?

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544246 -

I hope that was deadpan humour...

Adam and Eve are part of the Christian creation myth. They were not literally real.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544250 -

"God is said to have created adam and eve, if he did not who did? Then there is a god, right?"

I've got to hand it to you. that is some of the funniest shit i've heard in a long time.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Pynchon]
    #544305 -

In reply to:



Adam and Eve are part of the Christian creation myth. They were not literally real.



They are a part of Islam too, and they were real and they started the first human tribes. Yes, there is a God. Look how complicated this world is. Only a designing mind could have created it. Look how complicated your body and mind is.


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Edited by Zahid (02/07/02 10:57 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544316 -

OH YEAH! Prove it.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: DEnoG]
    #544324 -

You can't argue a case for God with reasoning because nobody has or can have any "evidence" in the traditional sense of the word. Either you feel God or you do not. For those that feel him, he is real. For those that don't, he is not.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #544330 -

Exactly. So saying with absolute certainty that there is a God is foolishness. Beliefs and feelings are just that, not Ultimate Justification.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: DEnoG]
    #544335 -

a god of somesort is beleived to
exist in all/almost cultures.
I believe that the christen god was
created by man to help people have
better morels(sp)? and not to fear
death.
I myself don't believe there is a god,
but the evolution theory that all life
came from a chemical reaction doesn't make sense to me either.
sorry if the sp is bad, I have been
drinking alitle tonight.
peace,
zero


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sk8 or die

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: zero]
    #544426 -

If Christianity was created to help with not fearing death, then it has failed miserably in my opinion. Christianity, as well as all organized religions is based on fear and guilt. Both of wich are used to keep members of the respective churches in "Check" . How else could someone possibly be led to believe that donation for a better place of worship is necesary to be close to God. If the preechers on t.v. are wearing more bling bling than P. Diddy in his latest video, I have a hard time believing that they are in it for god!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544766 -

I find it difficult to play along with your game. It would also be wrong to say that there is no definite answer, because there definitely is a definite answer. But it is not a "yes" or "no" answer. It is not even any answer in any existing human languages. To elaborate I will present some sides of the question "Is there God?"

Is there a thing that is God? No.
Where are all the things coming from? From God.
Where is God? Nowhere.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544776 -

no, not as an external omnipotent entity
as a word then yes i believe god is a word that can be used heedlessly


look under my name over to the right a little bit, that's all the proof you need

Edited by The Insect Priest (02/08/02 11:48 AM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Swami]
    #544840 -

The chicken, of course!

Ahahah.. I seriously need you for my debate team vs. xianism

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544848 -

Zahid:

They are a part of Islam too, and they were real and they started the first human tribes. Yes, there is a God. Look how complicated this world is. Only a designing mind could have created it. Look how complicated your body and mind is.

You got perspective about God's "first human tribes." I see no way Yahweh could account for other ethnicities developed through history. Even if there is a Presence, it does not mean Universal Totality.. I just don't recongize the ethocentrism of xianists. This world's progressive complexity cannot be reduced to absolute relativism. It's not even tangential.. It's grasping for the fibers of the air!

As for the question, you didn't define the versions of God so I will: Xian-God is a no.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544855 -

Why don't you actually do some research on other religions? The one and only God, that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam teach to worship are all the same God. The periods in which the messengers taught the religion were far apart, by centuries. Even today in Western society, people believe in God but don't follow his way. They have it set in their mind that "God is love" so they do what they want. The existance of God, or the use of the word is a direct result of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. God cannot be disproved or proven; that's the genius part of religion. It's up to you to believe. If there was proof, everyone would be religious, and life would hardly be a test for the righteous. In the West, following God is a lifestyle. In the old world, following God is life. Why is religion lost in the west? Two reasons: The presence of freedom, and various flaws in Christianity and the contradictions in the Bible. This combination has resulted in the western society we see today. If any of you read the Koran, you would find that Islam makes alot more sense than Christianity. Religion, is an obvious logic what the Creator of everything would do if he decided to make little creatures with self-awareness and the ability to do good or evil. The presence of Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, Abraham, Joseph, etc. in the past is even more reason to accept faith. But unfortunately, too many people are victims of their own society.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544863 -

Thank you for supposing that I know nothing of other religions, I surely appreciate it! Jumping to conclusions is always a great thing to do. Religious studies is my hobbie, and I happen to realize that they are all one god. My point of this post was just to get people into conversation, so they could possibly see different wievpoints. Obviously we have seen yours. thanks!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544872 -

Just a side note: Your quote, "There is no god but allah, and muhammed is his messenger" kind of contradicts your statment of All of the gods are one. Very obviously Christians do not believe that their God is called Allah. Their God also has extremely different characteristics. Also you come with a very biased opinion towards Islam. This might be more productive if you were not preaching! thanks again


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544874 -

Then you should know that religion isn't about fear and guilt. I pay my zakat, it's a duty as a Muslim. Donations to mosques and Islamic centers too. Why do you say it's about fear and guilt? Yes, you must fear God, for he is your Creator. To fear him, shows that you know he is greater than anything else. But guilt? No. God brings peace into the heart that is unmatched by any other happiness in this life. If you experienced God in your heart, you will see. Yes, many Christians view Islam as a false religion because of the use of the word "Allah". Allah is Arabic for God. Many Arab Christians call God Allah. Alot of that reply was also directed to zero as well.


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Edited by Zahid (02/08/02 01:16 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #544881 -

Arch_Templar: How does Islam explain the different ethnic groups? Well, the first human tribes grew bigger. Over time, humans spread out all over the earth. Their appearance is a result of the environment they live in. Africans are very dark because they live near the equator, as with Arabs in southern Arabia. In Northern Africa, the people are alot lighter. And then you're more north, near Europe and Russia where everyone is white. I hope this enlightens you.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544889 -

I really don't know why you are caught up in the conflict with Christianity!! I never claimed to be suppoorting them. And you prove my point: I highly doubt that Allah told the leaders of your church that you have to pay to be a good Muslim. Also if you did not feel guilt why would you pay? No one needs a 30 million dollar building to show their love to god -Allah. By making you believe that it is your "duty", they are instilling guilt in you wether you see it or not.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544891 -


Zahid: Fear is like fearing judgment and suffering. Reverence, respect, and humbleness are better. Even if it was not meant for anybody, you're still superimposing [[insert your fav God being]] into the objective domain: everybody.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544892 -

The zakat is one of the five pillars of Islam: Paying charity to the needy. Muhammad taught that it is your level of faith in God and good deeds that get you into Heaven. I pay charity to my mosque as a good deed, not out of guilt.

Arch_Templar: God is greater than... he is greater than everything, that is why he must be feared. But he is also the Merciful, the Compassionate, and the Sustainer. Of course, every Muslim fears Hell at one point. That is why we obey God, so we no longer fear the Fire, nor do we fear Judgement.


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Edited by Zahid (02/08/02 01:33 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544898 -

Zahid: Ethnicity of each culture is very distinct with phsyical characteristics. YOu're telling me (Asian) I originated from Israelites?

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544905 -

Arch_Templar: God is greater than... he is greater than everything, that is why he must be feared. But he is also the Merciful, the Compassionate, and the Sustainer. Of course, every Muslim fears Hell at one point. That is why we obey God, so we no longer fear the Fire, nor do we fear Judgement.

Be careful about how you claim God is "greater than everything." The moment you speak of such, you speak of no truth. It's Egoism at it's finest..

Fear? Then I do not fear God, guess I won't discover the fruits of his generosity

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #544906 -

They have different features because of their environment (including Oriental people, the people of Eastern Asia). They developed their own cultures over time as well. This should make sense to most people, even non-religious folks.

Arch Templar, this topic is called "Does God Exist", and thus I'm stating my opinion. I don't preach Islam unless the topic persists. (i.e., the recent "Is Jesus the son of God?" topic). It isn't egoism at all. All Muslims believe that God is greater than everything because He is. He created everything.


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Edited by Zahid (02/08/02 01:47 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #544907 -

Hey Zahid, could you explain to me more clearly what Zakat is. Once I read that Zakat is similar to a tax. A tax that demands one fourth of all revenue. Is this true? If so do you pay every day, at the end of the year? When do you get double taxed for your belongings. Because zakat includes belongings, not just revenue, right? Just curious

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544909 -

Zakat, one of the pillars of Islam, is the duty to pay 2.5 of your annual income to the poor and needy. By not doing this, it is a sign of greed because it is generally not alot of money (the Zakat).


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Edited by Zahid (02/08/02 01:46 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544911 -

That's a nutty claim unless you can provide more detail information.  The environemnt has nothing to do with ethnic distinction [facial characteristics].

Well, I'm countering your opinion through godlessness.. :laugh:

EDIT: I forgot to add:  I fail to see the connection since the arrival of pilgrims to nother america that was dominated by indians.  you don't see generations upon generations of pilgrims turning into indians, do you?

Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (02/08/02 01:54 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544912 -

2.5 percent? That does not seem like alot of money. So when can a new prophet come, and raise taxes?

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544916 -

As far as his statements, I can only state what I have read from recent chinese/american anthropoligy studies. Skull dates have led researchers to believe that the first human life was african. Africans migrated north creating middle eastern and european culture. From these the asians were descended. So no you are not descended from israeli persay, because that is from a different migrational pattern.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544919 -

Arch_Templar: It isn't a nutty claim, it's a logical claim. Over hundreds of thousands of years, each race gradually developes its own characteristics.

Nugsarenice: Muhammad was the final prophet from God.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544927 -

Bollocks.. the claim is not even anthropological but theological association.. which means you got little for data to help you..


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: nugsarenice]
    #544931 -

Ya know where I could look this up? Thanks

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #544933 -

Show your data then.

I have my views, you have yours.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544941 -

Actually environmental charachteristics have everything to do with human traits. For example people from asia have "slanted" eyes because of the adaption to blowing dust, extreme hot and cold etc


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #544945 -

My point exactly :smile:


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #544953 -

See we CAN agree on some things.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #546284 -

Zahid - I was born in texas but grew up in saudi arabia because my dad worked in oil. I was not allowed to practice christianity in SA and somewhere in between here and there I have come to the conclusion that all of the organized religions are the biggest forms of Satan on the planet. All they are is places for scared people who are afraid of individuality to congregate and pretend like they all have something in common. It gives them motivation in life because they believe that if they follow the precepts of their respective texts then they will go to paradise. But I guess you have been brainwashed and no one will ever convince you of that.

There is a God and it can be proven. Look closely at the carpet, God is in the carpet. I am serious, not being sarcastic.


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The above post is entirely fictional and should not be taken out of context.

Ali-G
www.boyakasha.co.uk

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #546305 -

If you say that then explain all the other ethnicities destroyed or still present, then maybe you got something for me to bite onto. :P


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #547429 -

I didnt finish reading the replies, cause i was eager to post, but if this was stated before im sorry. I think we evolved, just liek science says, and adam and eve were more of a fable, you are told what you need to know, and thats all that matters..kinda matrix like. :P It fills in the blind spots. And YES. I dont know what kinda god i believe in yes, i dunno if i blieve in it as a soul, or single entity, or just the whole everythign and existace, but im here so i guess i must believe


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #547543 -

My thoughts:

God is the experiencer, observer, within you and everything.

To experience, one must first have something to experience, so most likely, God is also the original creator.


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its all placebo

Edited by Divine_Madness (02/11/02 05:52 AM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #547749 -

.....yes

It feels really good to not be infinite (like the God I believe in)...I don't have to know or be able to do everything....

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Tannis]
    #547880 -

You do not believe that we are also infinite? Do you think we just blow away when we die? just curious


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: LeGrouper]
    #547937 -

LeGrouper: First, Saudi Arabia is a corrupt regime. Islam, in fact teaches tolerance of Christianity and Judaism as they are religions of the book, and followers of Allah (only following the teachings of different prophets.) How can say that organized religion are the biggest forms of Satan on the planet? Satan is about evil, Muslims, Christians, and Jews are righteous people. The presence of these three religions that call to follow God are logical as to what God would do to keep man-kind in his place. Yes, there are people who harbour negative views towards organized religion simply because they only see the black and white area (i.e., if you don't follow this religion, you're going to hell.) But Islam, for example goes into such great detail explaining itself, mankind, and the afterlife and it's interfaith dialogue, that people who are Muslims follow Islam because it makes perfect sense, the readings of Muhammad (peace be upon him) are not altered one bit since the prophet's time, unlike the other religions of the book. Christianity is God's word made flesh, Islam is God's word made book. 1 in 5 people on this earth are Muslim. Unfortunately, Westerners have adopted Atheism or Agnosticism mainly as a result of their own culture. If you do not wish to believe, that is your choice. I don't understand why people would even want to take the risk, especially with the presence of people who have near death experiences and they see demons in vivid detail around them before become conscious again. Anyone who says a Muslim, a Christian, or Jew is afraid of individuality is completely false, because you will never, ever know where a Muslim, Christian, or Jew is coming from unless you truely experience God with heart. Once you experience Him, it's impossible to let go. And don't assume I was brainwashed. I found Islam on my own, an un-usual path for a white 18 year old Canadian to follow. I embraced Islam because I found it with my heart, and it made so much more sense to me than Christianity did to me (I strayed from Christianity years ago as a kid). I have always been happy all my life, everything is simply more clear now. I am naturally introverted and have always searched for the meaning of things. I concluded that I believed in God, but did not know how to find him. I eventually learned (much so through the use of LSD) that if there was a God, how would he go about doing things? He would create a place for the bad to punish and purify (Hell isn't forever for everyone in Islam). He would never show himself to man, but He would send messengers for man to follow or reject. If He showed himself, everyone would willingly submit to Him and there would be no test in life, the test to get into Heaven. Eventually he would end it all, and restart. The universe at one point had to have started by a single particle, action, or matter. What created that? How can you say everything happened by itself? Look how complicated life on earth is; I mean, look at the human body. How everything works perfects, how every organ as an importance. You cannot question a believer LeGrouper, and there will always be Kufr on this planet even after the second coming of Isa and the arrival of the Dajjal because they refuse to believe.

"Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will never return to the right path." Qur'an 2:18


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Edited by Zahid (02/11/02 01:41 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #548034 -

You make some very valid points, but do you not view buddhism, or hinduism as REAL religions?


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #548036 -

Jeepers, that looks like the biggest run-on sentence I've ever seen. Do you breath when you talk? :P

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #548059 -

Very God like actions my friend! How about answering the question insteat of pulling a SWAMI and being critical? By the way you forgot a couple of words in that last big post smart guy! P.S. two commas in a thought does not constitute a run-on sentence.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #548074 -

Humor.. humor.. if you didn't noticed -> :P One of my pet peeves, I guess. Big phat paragraphs I dislike to read unless they were broken down to digestable forms..

I am unlike Swami..

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #548077 -

God is you, and God is me.

I am that I am

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ]
    #548080 -

Do you realize "I AM" translates to EGO? Edit: ooips


Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (02/11/02 03:31 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #548084 -

Oh you mean this question I missed, sorry Hygiene.

Show your data then.

I have my views, you have yours.

You made the claim, it is your responsibility to provide more details. I have none as far as views. The only view I have is viewless.. compared to yours


Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (02/11/02 03:39 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #548090 -

I interpret I AM as recognizing our connection with Creation, the God in me acknowledges the God in you. That's how I see it anyway.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #548212 -

Got ya on the humor thing! The question I was refering to is weather or not you view buddhism and Hinduism as real religions.

While we at at it, How did you find Islam growing up as a caucasion Canadian?


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #548401 -

Are you still talking Arch_Templar?

MentalHygene: Allah is Merciful, and surely those who are Buddhist and Hindu who have never learned the basics of Islam, well be granted Paradise as well, for Islam states that the other religions were also a message from God to call upon a righteous life. But overtime, the messages changed drastically. God will judge by what you know. But upon discovering Islam, and realizing its sincere truth, he should convert and become a Muslim because it is considered the final message of Allah, in the readings of Muhammad (peace be upon him). I became a Muslim about 10 months ago when I started to read about world religions, I became very interested in Islam and my heart felt it.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #548461 -

Thank you for the info, and insight into the religion! I am truly glad that you have found happiness. I am glad that you are willing to respond without bias.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #548676 -

I know that I'm not infinite, but I believe I will continue to exist now that I have come into existence.

In the story of Lucifer, he believed he could be infinite when he said, ..."I will ascend on high...I will be like the most high God...." (paraphrased)

That incident kind-of ended badly for everyone....

Tannis

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #548770 -

i ask again...
have you sought admission to a sufi (dervish) circle ?
~
salaam


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Tannis]
    #549052 -

I definately understand your main point. I am, however unclear on what you think about where you go. Where do you think you will end up? I guess that is my question.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #549587 -

No, God does NOT exist.

And I have to comment on this from the first page...
"If God didn't create Adam and Eve, Then Who did"

They did not exist! They are not real people you goof.
And just think about this..

If we all came from 2 people... We would be the most retarded people in the Universe right now since we would all be FUCKING RED NECK INCESTUOUS IMBREEDING SONS OF BITCHES. I guess God Promotes lots and LOTS of Incest and imbreeding eh? Since Adam and eve fucked, their sons/daughters must have fucked as well. God Promotes incest!!! Same thing happened when Noah went on his arc with his family! INCEST ALL AROUND! Wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn't that a sin???????

Explain that one.....

Oh yea baby! A whole lot of Imbreeding goin' on!!!

GOD PROMOTES INCEST AND IMBREEDING!!! GO FUCK YOUR SISTERS AND BROTHERS YOU CHRISTIAN RETARDS, is that why your all so stupid?

Because you have sex with your blood relatives and give birth to retards?

I'm going to go to a bar and get laid the way it should be, you can go fuck your daddy.... and suck on your brothers wanker...... Like God wants you to.

yea, that's harsh, but that's how stupid religion is.......


And um, 2 of EVERY Species on a boat? Um.. Yea, good fucking luck.....

And uh, what did they eat on that boat for 40 days and 40 nights... The lions and tigers and bears would eat the other animals.. The insects/spiders would have been squashed and stepped on... And well, it's just fucking impossible to fit EVERY single animal in the world onto a boat for 40 days and 40 nights....

And then all the Incest sex amongst every species on earth including humans...

All the animals would be retarded to!


Remember this everyone: Be a good christian and have sex with blood relatives like God wants you to! He promotes Incest!

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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: MentalHygene]
    #549622 -

Mr. Hygiene:

In reply to:

Got ya on the humor thing! The question I was refering to is weather or not you view buddhism and Hinduism as real religions.



Oh, I thought that question was for Zahid. I don't belong nor practice any type per say. For now, I can say it's real to the practitioner. Though, there are the dangers of enculteration, one being: Ethocentricity.

Oh yeah, you're confusing me with Zahid!!

Zahid:

In reply to:

Are you still talking Arch_Templar?

MentalHygene: Allah is Merciful, and surely those who are Buddhist and Hindu who have never learned the basics of Islam, well be granted Paradise as well, for Islam states that the other religions were also a message from God to call upon a righteous life. But overtime, the messages changed drastically. God will judge by what you know. But upon discovering Islam, and realizing its sincere truth, he should convert and become a Muslim because it is considered the final message of Allah, in the readings of Muhammad (peace be upon him). I became a Muslim about 10 months ago when I started to read about world religions, I became very interested in Islam and my heart felt it.



I'm here..

Welp, tracing the source of non-islamic traditions back to Allah is grasping for straws. If you don't have any comparisons, it's not much of an assertion? I've come across a channeller for Melora who states:

Yes. Buddha was. Mohammed, however, was not. So the divinity Allah is not Yahweh, is not a Christed Being, is not of the Order of Melchizedek. [Allah] came in not as a creator god but to kind of test the waters of his power. He did not create that race. If you remember, Iran was called "Arya," which is where you get "Aryan," and so Persion/Farsi is part of the Indo-European languages. Arabic came much later into their language and into religious influence as a result of Arab conquest.

The full article is here: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/3365/Yahweh1.html

About Paradise: Mahayana traditions of East Asia, from 480 BC, is dominated by Ch'an with two great sects:

Zen of Japan
Pure Land (Amidism) of China

Pure Land has been sitting under my nose for years until yesterday when I visited one of the temples. From my first impression, it is similar to God-based traditions since Amitabha is revered as a transcended Buddha. His err sidekick is Quan Yin, another transcended Buddha. My understanding is:

Amitabha created a domain called "Western Paradise." The faith emphasize meditation, recitating his sutra, following the wisdom of Eigthfold Path, and the goal to be reborn in his domain. There are two aspects of this paradise:

Transcendental. The practitioner is reborn into a realm of bliss, all his/her karmic dues are washed clean if it was not done so in life.

Transitional. The practitioner is there to learn and attained Enlightenment before he/she incarnates back to Earth.


The conditions of acceptance into WP are flexible:

1. Accepts anyone
2. Intent of wanting Amitabha's help
3. Attempts to follow the precepts of EP
4. Final intent at the moment of death

This is the least ethocentric tradition I've seen to date. I need to do more reading.

My idea about your faith: It's called frequency of affinity [ethos]. The frequency is latent potential that lies in your unconscious via ego manifesting as you follow this tradition.

af?fin?i?ty (-fn-t)
n. pl. af?fin?i?ties
A natural attraction, liking, or feeling of kinship.
Relationship by marriage.
An inherent similarity between persons or things. See Synonyms at likeness.
Biology. A relationship or resemblance in structure between species that suggests a common origin.
Immunology. The attraction between an antigen and an antibody.
Chemistry. An attraction or force between particles that causes them to combine.

And..

e?thos (ths)
n.
The disposition, character, or fundamental values peculiar to a specific person, people, culture, or movement: ?They cultivated a subversive alternative ethos? (Anthony Burgess).


First, so speaking from the above meanings, I see a connection as a frequency. It is the way we are 'tuned' to certain faiths, certain resonance that's not defined within reason or facts. When I mentioned Unconscious Egos:

"Only after I had familiarized myself with alchemy did I realize that the unconscious is a process, and that the psyche is transformed or developed by the relationship of the ego to the contents of the unconscious."

- C. G. Jung; Memories, Dreams, Reflections: P. 209"


Second, I made a notion on Jung's theory that our individuation process in 'faith' manifests from the unconscious via the ego. You are not necessarily aware of the process happening directly unless you have the awareness to observe it indirectly.

Third, since the potential of the frequency is there, the person will possibly 'tune' out other 'frequencies' irrelevant to the individuation process.


Toodles
ArCh

Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (02/13/02 02:16 AM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #549777 -

I guess that depends on "who is right"..... ( religion wise )....

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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550000 -

Zylo: Don't bother adding your opinion to this topic, it's worthless, much like yourself.

Arch_Templar: Interesting data. Carl G. Jung is a smart man, but a theory from a single man cannot explain why 1 in 5 people in this world believe in what they believe in. There can be a million theories, but non will completely explain the process of faith, how humans are able to literally go from an animal-like state of self to a righteous and devout one that brings complete peace of mind. Several other Shroomites have mentioned it before, faith cannot be explained. We don't understand the non-believers and why they do what they do, and the non-believers don't understand us, why we do what we do.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zylo]
    #550056 -

Very valid points here! Maybe a little too much emotion, but hey no one ever said thats not allowed right? Try not to hold these things against them though! (christians) I am not christian myself, but for the majority they are good people regardless of what they believe.


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: Zahid]
    #550113 -

Single man? He was a prodigy of Sigmund Freud. Both psychologists were great contributors of psychology. They both spent their whole lifetime refining the theories. No small undertaking. Jung was the one who studied Eastern mysticism.

I gave you a pertinent psychological impression of faith using Freud/ Jung pyschology. It is a template observable with any believer. Simply put, if you don't have a healthy developed ego, you cease to be a high-functioning human being.

Your reasoning about "million theories...........why we do what do" is circular. Why? You say Allah is the basis of all mysticism, then you say faith cannot be explained fully.. Guess your theory is better than the rest, I suppose.. Though I recognize transformation is an important phase in the process, I treat it no more than phenomenology.

Be mindful of your beliefs or else you become ungrounded..

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550121 -

Actually, I wouldn't mind if Zahid flames that petard! :laugh:

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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550229 -

You guys are both from the same religion correct? Shouldn't you be able to agree on some things?


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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550241 -

Err....... No, if you look back in this thread, you'll see I am not aligned with any particular faith. My interests are in Buddhist schools and other Eastern mysticism.



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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550278 -

Arch_Templar: It's just that though, a theory. From one person, who while smart and introverted, thought up a theory about people who have faith while he alone has never truely experienced faith, but only made an analysis.

In reply to:

Single man? He was a prodigy of Sigmund Freud. Both psychologists were great contributors of psychology. They both spent their whole lifetime refining the theories. No small undertaking. Jung was the one who studied Eastern mysticism.



There are many great psychologists, but it doesn't mean all their theories are correct. He studied Eastern mysticism. Does that mean he truely understands it? No. Journalists study Islamic fundamentalism, but that doesn't mean they truely understand the fanatic, why they do what they do. I'm going to have to go ahead and dismiss this theory for a) He has not truely experienced faith, only studied it and made what he thought was an intelligent opinion on the matter. And b) It is just that, a theory. Many people harbour these, smart and average.

In reply to:

I gave you a pertinent psychological impression of faith using Freud/ Jung pyschology. It is a template observable with any believer. Simply put, if you don't have a healthy developed ego, you cease to be a high-functioning human being.



It's an opinion of faith. How would you describe a "high-functioning human being"? It sounds like you're saying the non-believers of organized faith are "elite". You're saying that the believers are "unconscious"? Hah.

Muslims are all different from eachother. Many of them are very intelligent, and all of them are at peace with themselves. Algebra, was invented by Muslims. Muslims became known for being elite in the world of learning and astrology. The Mystics of Islam, the Sufi's, are often wise, introspective, and at complete peace and harmony with life and humanity. Once again, a Prophet who did not know how to read or write, a pious man, came running down from the mountains to Mecca one day calling his people (who were idol-worshippers before Muhammad) to worship the one and only God. Muhammad explained the Moses and Jesus (who had the ability to channel miracles) were also prophets from Allah, the Merciful.

In reply to:

Your reasoning about "million theories...........why we do what do" is circular. Why? You say Allah is the basis of all mysticism, then you say faith cannot be explained fully.. Guess your theory is better than the rest, I suppose.. Though I recognize transformation is an important phase in the process, I treat it no more than phenomenology.



Transformation? Faith would not do anything to interupt this. This theory that faith has to be overlooked in order to complete "transformation" is baseless. And Yes, my theory is better than the rest because there are alot more who share it, compared to two people and your theory. There may be other Westerners or Euopeans who read it, and vaguely agreed with it out of respect to a known psychologist.

In reply to:

"Only after I had familiarized myself with alchemy did I realize that the unconscious is a process, and that the psyche is transformed or developed by the relationship of the ego to the contents of the unconscious."

- C. G. Jung; Memories, Dreams, Reflections: P. 209"



This proves my point even more. Realization that someone may experience is often not right. On psychedelics, people often realize things they truely believe themselves, but that doesn't make it correct. It's not an "ultimate truth" or a form of satori enligtenment that C. G. Jung got. "Familiarized"? Heh. How well did he get familiarized?

Since the dawn of faith, it was never explained nor will it ever be explained. I would normally reply to a flame, but Zylo's post is just pathetic and doesn't deserve to be quoted.


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Edited by Zahid (02/13/02 03:59 PM)

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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550292 -

I'd like to appoligize for that question. Obviously I was confusing you for Zahid. My fault! I wish I would have known That these were your interests earlier, and we would have had a whole lot more to talk about. When you say schools, Do you mean that you are activly involved in these schools? If so I would like to know more about them. I am searching for people with similar beliefs and interests that I can discuss things with. Sorry again for the confusion!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #550329 -



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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #550333 -

Cute. :smile:


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Edited by Zahid (02/13/02 04:45 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #550334 -

Damn.....  Obviously God doesn't exist if Innocent Lego People Have to suffer such a tremendous tragedy!!!!  :smile:   
Thanks for that one man!  Thats a good laugh


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #550341 -

There are many great psychologists, but it doesn't mean all their theories are correct. He studied Eastern mysticism. Does that mean he truely understands it? No. Journalists study Islamic fundamentalism, but that doesn't mean they truely understand the fanatic, why they do what they do. I'm going to have to go ahead and dismiss this theory for a) He has not truely experienced faith, only studied it and made what he thought was an intelligent opinion on the matter. And b) It is just that, a theory. Many people harbour these, smart and average.

More than me and you.  Once again circular reasoning..  cuz you don't understand me either.. and I did say "potential" as an approximate not unequivocal..

It's an opinion of faith. How would you describe a "high-functioning human being"? It sounds like you're saying the non-believers of organized faith are "elite". You're saying that the believers are "unconscious"? Hah.

high-functioning is best left for you to decide.  If you're not mentally retarded, you're high-functioning. :laugh:

huh?? I didn't say that at all.  Obviously, you misunderstood it..

Muslims are all different from eachother. Many of them are very intelligent, and all of them are at peace with themselves. Algebra, was invented by Muslims. Muslims became known for being elite in the world of learning and astrology. The Mystics of Islam, the Sufi's, are often wise, introspective, and at complete peace and harmony with life and humanity. Once again, a Prophet who did not know how to read or write, a pious man, came running down from the mountains to Mecca one day calling his people (who were idol-worshippers before Muhammad) to worship the one and only God. Muhammad explained the Moses and Jesus (who had the ability to channel miracles) were also prophets from Allah, the Merciful.

Errr... And??

Transformation? Faith would not do anything to interupt this. This theory that faith has to be overlooked in order to complete "transformation" is baseless. And Yes, my theory is better than the rest because there are alot more who share it, compared to two people and your theory. There may be other Westerners or Euopeans who read it, and vaguely agreed with it out of respect to a known psychologist.

Hmm.. A little tint of egoism showing finally, aye?  You still didn't get my comments.  I recognize the process of transformation in "faith" as phenomenology, singular to only the individual.  When the individual oversteps the process and attempts to enculturate his/her experiences + faith with the world, that's trouble..

I must be speaking in alien language or something in those posts.. Go figure..

West?  That's pure conjecture..  The Freud / Jung psychology is relevant in understanding faith to an approximate degree because:  Well, hmmm... You have an ego.. You exist..

This proves my point even more. Realization that someone may experience is often not right. On psychedelics, people often realize things they truely believe themselves, but that doesn't make it correct. It's not an "ultimate truth" or a form of satori enligtenment that C. G. Jung got. "Familiarized"? Heh. How well did he get familiarized?

When did I say he experienced??  And when did I say he tried psychedelics?  What makes your experience + faith more better than his theories or mine?  I did say observable, a quality of measurement not judgment.  Never once did I say his theory + my creative jamming was correct or true.  I don't buy Ultmiate truth, and neither did Jung claim such.

Familarized?  Contemplation... Long long periods of gestation spanning 40 years.  Though, modern psychology has trouble accepting all of his theories since ahahah it's all to mystical for them.. 


Since the dawn of faith, it was never explained nor will it ever be explained.

Forget it...  "Allah is the source of all faiths"  That'll explain it..

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Re: Buddha of Infinite Light and Life [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550347 -

No, I'm not active. My parents are. The two main Buddhas worshipped is Amitabha and Quan Yin. I've always noticed them in the temples.

I got 5 Pure Land books from the temple's library.. Too bad the translation gets butchered from Chinese to English. Even pronouncing Amitabha in english is brutish.. much more eloquent when spoken in Chinese..


What do you want to know? I"ve only started reading Pure Land a couple of days ago! How far do you want me to take you? eheheh


Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (02/13/02 05:18 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550396 -

Look... Over there, its a bird, its a plane, well wait a minute.. No, actually its only my reflection in the window....

Whew! That was wierd.... I thought I saw, no never mind...

Breaktime.... What if while were relaxing we took a minute or two to figure some things out for ourselves? I believe that its within our grasp to gain a deep understanding of just what your referring to by exploring within our own consciousness.

Some quotes from Harry Palmer...

Philosophy is the exploration of consciousness by consciousness. Its thinking about thinking. It's the difference between a disciple and an enlightened man. A disciple is thinking. An enlightened man is watching. - HP

According to some, the creation of a God is a surrender of personal responsibility for our own minds. According to others, the creation of a God is the first sane thing we have done with our minds. - HP

Check out the exercises that this guy came up with for exploring consciousness (Harry Palmer). www.starsedge.com Go Harry!!! Go everybody!!!


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[blue]*******************************************[/blue]
Control your own mind.
[purple] Seek an experiential clarity..... [/purple]
www.StarsEdge.com
[blue]*******************************************[/blue]

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: BigYetti]
    #550434 -

Ahhhhhhh.... how refreshing to have some one think that thinking is the best path to spiratuality! I was never asking questions about god to "find him". It was just a very general question to get people discussing different beliefs. I know my God and he ghanges every day. Much in the same way I do! Meditation, and projection have been huge tools in finding my place in the spiratual realm. I do not believe that I will ever stop mind expanding exercises, because they have proved far too valuable. Do you practice projection by any chance? Because I would love to hear some of your techniques if you do!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550497 -

Describe what 'thinking' means you?

A near thinkless mind is the best thinker.. hehe


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550520 -

In response to: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THINKING?


Hmmmmmm..... Let me THINK.......Wait, what does that mean? Now I have to THINK about THINKING. Its a viscious cycle!!!!! Anyway, basicly I mean sitting by yourself, bringing you mind to a complete standstill, and letting the knowledge of the universe flow into you. (also known as meditation). A very valuable tool!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550583 -

Ahhh..  I"m getting scolded.. hehe  :tongue:

"A very valuable tool.... to find a thought of "being free yet together as one."


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550595 -

scolded? nah that was just my pathetic attempt at humor! And your idea of a valuable tool is indeed valuable!


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550615 -

O.Ohhh the God speaks!! :wink:


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #550627 -

(insert deep powerfull voive here) HAHAHA.......I AM GOD!  I WAS JUST WAITING FOR THE RIGHT TIME TO RELEASE THIS KNOWLEDGE UPON THE WORLD. THIS FORUM IS MY VEHICLE OF CHOICE.  FOLLOW MY WORD OR BE PUNISHED!  hahaha  :wink: 


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

Edited by MentalHygene (02/13/02 10:05 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550662 -

Just out of curriosity..... In muslim belief, where do you go when you pass on from this world?


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #550913 -

G'mornin....
To clarify your response to my post, "how refreshing to have some one think that thinking is the best path to spiratuality!". I actually wasen't saying that. If you read closely, Harry is saying that Philosophy is thinking about thinking. His techniques use the mind as a tool to actually quiet the mind, and quickly at that. In a very short time (compared to more traditional methods of meditation) your mind becomes very quiet and can actually shut off using his techniques. Its a very smooth gradient approach. Your from one step to the next before you know it. Without the usual forcing the mind to focus or get still or whatever of traditional meditations. From there he shows you how to move your awareness (the 'I' or "I am") outside of your mind to experience and operate from a higher awareness. But thats not all he's discovered. Also how to deliberalely recognize, encompass and if desired, remove beliefs from your consciousness and more. Excellently cool (I love the feel of a discreate).... Check it out.

Far as projection, yes I use the tools I learned in Avatar Wizards course to bridge across the physical and the astral plane continuously. One foot in the physical and one foot in the astral so to speak.... This step of course after opening the inner vision as I call it (3rd eye so to speak) and after cleaning up some of the mess that was inside and then expanding awareness into more of a higher self aspect. Its the highest clearist (sp) high I have ever experienced (by light years).

Question; with techniques this powerful and effective, can one deliberately and significantly excel their own spiritual evolution?

Anyway, his book is a free download from the site and you can get the section one exercises from a book called Resurfacing from the same site for around 15 bucks I think (underpriced if you ask me).....

So in a nutshell, no, I wasen't referring to using the mind to find God. The mind only creates endless scenario loops. More like finding your own experience of God can only be done when one gets out of their mind (strange as that sounds - hehe). Or put another way, expands their awareness beyond the confines of the mind.

We only really know what we experience. - HP


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[blue]*******************************************[/blue]
Control your own mind.
[purple] Seek an experiential clarity..... [/purple]
www.StarsEdge.com
[blue]*******************************************[/blue]

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: BigYetti]
    #551069 -

Hey, I definately agree that exploring our own selves is the path that leads to an expanded consciousness. I find most organized religions extremely arrogant, that God, or Allah, or whatever, chose them and speaks to them which makes their religion the "right" one. I think there is definately something else besides this Earth, but it seems like it would be impossible for our very human minds to comprehend whatever it is.



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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: BigYetti]
    #551203 -

Again, I will dare to say "refreshing".maybe I didn't word the last one right! I wasn't really referring to thinking untill you find god. I tend to use the word thinking as a broad generalization for meditation and spiratual practices. Witch in actuality makes no sense because meditation is the absense of thought. And the "god" I was referring to is not the image that is readilly accepted in religious circles. Personally I have found that there is just as much "god" in me as there is in the rock sitting on the side of the road, or the tree in the yard.
Thank you for the source on projection. I'll definately check that out! By the way you refer to "one foot in and one foor out". I have been researching and practicing projection for some time, and have never heard of this approach. Is it different from full out release from the body?

thanks again


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #551343 -

Arch_Templar: You cant get it out of your system to "disprove" God to me. You've argued one theory to another, that you're convinced the theories you use are correct. You're claiming egoism on my behalf? Egoism? How? I don't have any set mantality that I am superior to non-Muslims. My closest friends are not religious, I don't preach Islam to them because I can sense somewhat that they're too set on their atheist beliefs. My belief is that Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) was the final prophet from God. My heart has truely experienced God, and thus I am a believer for life. There is no turning back. Other friends I have opened the doors of Islam to them and they found it interesting, and after months of self-discovery, they made the conversion too. I only did this with two friends who were very open minded. A "theory" that faith is some ignorant crutch that the ego clings onto subconsciously sounds completely void to me. You can't just study religion, read the Bible, or the Torah, or the Koran and make an analysis of it what you think is the truth. You have to experience it. I don't care if you're reading the Koran or the Gospel everyday for 40 years, you have to truely experience it, and believe in it. Arch_Templar, if you experienced it, you would know that it's deeper than anything that manifests in the brain. It's spiritual, and at the same time it abides by God's physical laws (the way God made the brain work, the feeling is unique on its own). I understand what you're saying quoting Carl Jung, but I disagree with it. But for some reason you feel it's your duty to disprove God to me, using anything from psychological theories to saying that environment does not shape a race's physical features. There are non-believers who are not sure, and are confused if there is a higher power or not. They are confused by all the religious conflict, the clashing of religions, and of course, living in a society like the United States or Canada doesn't help much when God is only a lifestyle here, not life. Then there are the set non-believers who are absolutely convinced that God does not exist. They'll find anything to support this belief. God calls these people the "Deaf, dumb, and blind." Claiming organized faith is arrogant, is, itself arrogant because once again I'm stressing that the kufr cannot see God or understand him because their heart's are inflicted with a disease that has them living through the concept that life is a game to be played, good or bad. The blind belief that everything happened by accident. This topic has turned into a clash of beliefs. Some of you are claiming there is nothing beyond the physical world, others are claiming that "God is within" and we have to look for it ourselves, and some feel that the afterlife is so beyond human comprehension that they decide to wait and embrace the moment of death with no particular mindset or belief except that it's going to be wonderful, no matter who you are. Enough said.


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Edited by Zahid (02/14/02 02:05 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #551469 -

Question: You always speak of "experiencing god" What exactly do you mean be this? What makes YOU able to experience him, and the person that has religiously studied the book for 40 years not know him at all? It sounds like you are a little full of yourself... You definately carry the "hollier than thou" attitude! Also why is it necesary to say "peace be upon him" every single time you say muhammed? (peace be upon all!!!)


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

Edited by MentalHygene (02/14/02 03:30 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #551579 -

In reply to:

Question: You always speak of "experiencing god" What exactly do you mean be this? What makes YOU able to
                        experience him, and the person that has religiously studied the book for 40 years not know him at all? It sounds like
                        you are a little full of yourself... You definately carry the "hollier than thou" attitude! Also why is it necesary to say
                        "peace be upon him" every single time you say muhammed? (peace be upon all!!!)



When I say "experiencing God", I mean that in a sense of belief: those who truely believe in God with their hearts, believe in the Last Day, believe that Muhammad (pbuh) was the final in a series of prophets, and have absolute faith in the Merciful and the afterlife that awaits, are those who truely experience God. What makes me experience God? I believe. There are those who think they believe in God, but they don't with their hearts. This is what I mean when I talk about people who "observe" other religions, especially those of the book. They can study Islam in a learning matter (not spiritual) for 2 years or 40 years, but they have to believe with their hearts. The experience of God can go either way for a Christian or a Jew. It is generally the same thing, except they follow the teachings of a different prophet. When you die, an angel will ask you three questions: Who is your Creator? What is your Mission? Who was your Messenger? The correct answers are God, to surrender yourself to the will of God, and Muhammad (pbuh), Jesus (pbuh), Moses (pbuh), or whatever messenger you followed (according to God, He sent hundreds). I don't carry the "hollier than thou" attitude, I compare myself (a devout Muslim) to the kufr (non believers in God, who while some are good people, many of them do not obey Him). And it is generally customary in Islam to say "Peace and Blessing be upon him" when a messenger of Allah's name is spoken (after all, they did deliver the messages for us). And yes, peace be upon all. :smile: One thing I learned in Sufism that higthens the peace in my heart is selfless love for all living creatures.


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Edited by Zahid (02/14/02 04:39 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #551641 -

Hey MH,
To clarify my post this morning;

One foot in and one foot out
----------------------------------
The 'one foot in and one foot out' description is actually referring to a way of continuous operation in daily life once you can do it (called in Avatar lingo 'Wizard consciousness'). With that level of expanded awareness you can go about your daily stuff in the physical plane while still expanded into the astral. Both planes simultaneously. This level of control requires you to have a clear awareness of your higher self. Once achieved, it allows you to have a much greater ability to influence not only your universe (your experience of reality) but also the universes of others (hence the label 'Wizard'). Mere words can not describe this way of being/operating, you must experience it for yourself. My description of it here is trivial in comparison. I refered it to your question about projection to give you another viewpoint about projection. This for me is the ulitmate projection ability due to its unlimited potential and the personal power it gives one.

Conscious Projection
-------------------------
In reference to the projection you originally referred to (astral projection). In my experience to do this with a good (and real) result, one needs a good quantity of free attention particles, well disciplined attention skills, and a strong will power. Also a good ability to distinguish between ones own imagination and actual experiences not generated by the imagination (know thyself?). With these foundational skills developed there are several good techniques to explore. The fully conscious techniques require well disciplined attention skills (I.E. flawless focus and concentration). With that in mind, I recommend a book called 'The art and practice of astral projection' by Ophiel. If its not in print, try to find a copy used. His penmanship isn't the best but I have found his techniques really work, unlike some dead end techniques out there. Even before one develops attention mastery, his 'Dream Method' can be used to produce full conscous projection by awakening on the astral during sleep. All of his techniques will take some days or weeks to produce results for one new to this sort of thing. By the way, section 3 of the Avatar course has a rundown (procedure) called 'Body Handle' that will allow you to induce from lucid dreaming to full projection in somewhere between a few minutes to a few hours of working on it and depending on your skill level. Quite effective, of course, since its from Harry Palmer's research.

One thing I would suggest is that if one doesn' t have Wizard level skill in controlling consciousness (which by its very nature protects one), its a good idea to protect oneself deliberately. Especially if one tends to use things like mushrooms to alter consciousness. Do yourself a big favor and don't leave yourself open to hidden influences in consciousness. The method you use is really one of personal preference. I prefer the LBRP and still use it for clearing, when appropriate. Done properly in consciousness it works remarkably well. Of course one could choose some ritual from Wicca for protection or if ritual work isn't for you, a 'light' meditation works good (If you don't know a good one, try Al Mannings book "The miracle of universal psychic power" for a good light/chakra protection exercise). Others on this site may be able to recommend other good protection methods from their experience. However, my top recommendation to cover all the bases is still the Avatar course. Just do it. It will give you back your source, teach you skills to create deliberately in consciousness, to remove unwanted creations from consciousness, and alot more... Its cutting edge... It blows all the others away...

Happy Trails........................


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[blue]*******************************************[/blue]
Control your own mind.
[purple] Seek an experiential clarity..... [/purple]
www.StarsEdge.com
[blue]*******************************************[/blue]

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #551700 -

You cant get it out of your system to "disprove" God to me. You've argued one theory to another, that you're convinced the theories you use are correct. You're claiming egoism on my behalf?

You still misinterpret my frequency model. I didn't do it to DISPROVE. I gave you PERSPECTIVE on the basis of attraction to faith! Frankly, I'm getting tired of silliness. I will not reiterate the model again. Find me a stinking line in there that tries to disprove it, we might have something..

Egoism? Look at your suppositions:

He has not truely experienced faith, only studied it and made what he thought was an intelligent opinion on the matter. And b) It is just that, a theory. Many people harbour these, smart and average.

How presumptuous.. He's travelled and studied other cultures [ie: hopi indians, elgonies] to gain a refined understanding of his theories. He studied Eastern mysticism in years greater than your present age. He wasn't our "average" analyst sitting in an armchair spouting rhetoric.. He took serious risks against orthodoxy. I admire his 'individuality' and his spirituality.

And Yes, my theory is better than the rest because there are alot more who share it, compared to two people and your theory.

Ehhh.. The Frequency model has nothing to do with your God-based claim, assertion, theory.. Make up your mind. You can't claim yours to be a theory unless you have some solid smidgen of facts to back it up. Either case, I wasn't not making a comparison. I was providing psychological perspective and implications about your 'attraction'.

There may be other Westerners or Euopeans who read it, and vaguely agreed with it out of respect to a known psychologist

That's quite amusing.. Since you do know nothing about Freud and Jung, but somehow you can formulate an (informed?) opinion on the consensus's agreement with them..

This proves my point even more. Realization that someone may experience is often not right. On psychedelics, people often realize things they truely believe themselves, but that doesn't make it correct. It's not an "ultimate truth" or a form of satori enligtenment that C. G. Jung got. "Familiarized"? Heh. How well did he get familiarized?


Wrong. His work was his Satori, his dedication and his ability to sever ties with a domineering mentor, Freud -- displays his devotion and character in faith for 48 years. He needs no religion to experience Enlightenment.

In reply to:

A "theory" that faith is some ignorant crutch that the ego clings onto subconsciously sounds completely void to me. You can't just study religion, read the Bible, or the Torah, or the Koran and make an analysis of it what you think is the truth.



You're reading more subtext from your imagination.. I didn't state the obvious implication, hoping you would get it: Past life [unconscious] potential manifesting in the present one. The ego has two stratas:

Master
Super-ego

Super is subdivided into 2 levels:

Conscience ideal
Ego ideal

The mind has 3 stratas:

Subconscious
Unconscious
Consciousness

You figure out the rest..

In reply to:

if you experienced it, you would know that it's deeper than anything that manifests in the brain. It's spiritual, and at the same time it abides by God's physical laws (the way God made the brain work, the feeling is unique on its own).



I have.. I found a God unlike yours. He's in a golden temple but the throne is empty. My experiences do not abide by Allah's laws.

In reply to:

I understand what you're saying quoting Carl Jung, but I disagree with it. But for some reason you feel it's your duty to disprove God to me, using anything from psychological theories to saying that environment does not shape a race's physical features. There are non-believers who are not sure, and are confused if there is a higher power or not. They are confused by all the religious conflict, the clashing of religions, and of course, living in a society like the United States or Canada doesn't help much when God is only a lifestyle here, not life. Then there are the set non-believers who are absolutely convinced that God does not exist. They'll find anything to support this belief. God calls these people the "Deaf, dumb, and blind." Claiming organized faith is arrogant, is, itself arrogant because once again I'm stressing that the kufr cannot see God or understand him because their heart's are inflicted with a disease that has them living through the concept that life is a game to be played, good or bad. The blind belief that everything happened by accident. This topic has turned into a clash of beliefs. Some of you are claiming there is nothing beyond the physical world, others are claiming that "God is within" and we have to look for it ourselves, and some feel that the afterlife is so beyond human comprehension that they decide to wait and embrace the moment of death with no particular mindset or belief except that it's going to be wonderful, no matter who you are. Enough said.



I'm tired of this. You didn't even tried to interpret the simple model correctly so all your arguments are moot. It means nothing to me, all it does is redirects right back at you..

AND FOR THE LAST TIME, there were certain instances I wascountering (with some humor and sarcasim) you not trying to disprove. You have no ability to prove your claims anyways so how am I suppose to disprove it? And please, I have no duty to enlighten the misguided, it's up to the person.. *roll_eyes


Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (02/14/02 07:38 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #551709 -

BWahahah..  I knew you were up to something.. :laugh:


and err... I'm not a muslim!!!

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #551724 -

God does not exist. The scriptures were written by many psycotic men who lived in caves. They created an illusional God to prevent chaos. These scriptures were passed on, edited, compiled into the bible, and translated. This is what we now consider the book of god?

No
There is no god


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Maybe this world
Is another planet's
Hell

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: BigYetti]
    #551744 -

I foud your posts very intriguing.  I even visited the website.  Awatar is a nice ring to it..

It seems Harry offers quicker and more efficient way to solidy the foundation than traditional ones of Buddhism.

and MH:  I was reflecting yesterday about deception.  It's like a disease of the ego.  My parents have administrative responsibility in the temple.  They  have to deal with it for quite a while.  The internal quarrelling and power politics cost the temple in 5 digits figure.  Even when that was settled with the lawyers, some of the friends are doing it behind my parents back. 

I thought of your alias.. ahaha Good hygiene to keep the mind free of diseases. :tongue:

These people could benefit from uh your Godliness.. :wink:

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Menace]
    #551746 -

Maybe, you should direct your thoughts at Zahid, he's the expert on Allah. Not me


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #551840 -

    Arch:  Sorry about that, I should have specified.  I was asking Zahid about the afterlife thing....  (at leats thats what I assume you are refering to)  I am aware now that you are not muslim. I mean I am dumb, but not that dumb to forget so quickly. :wink: 


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #551873 -

Np.. 

Afterlife:  I never asked I just provided Ch'an(Pure land)  perspective on it that traces back to Siddartha's teachings.  He basically taught theravadin, mahayana, and vajrayana.  The schools just took pieces of it and taught it in a specailized way to capture the diversity of people's needs.

That's my understanding so far. 

Well, I'll forgive you since you're a err God.. :wink:

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #551952 -

HEY YOU....I AM GOD AND I SHOULD BE DOING THE FORGIVING!!!!  :smile:
  Ok sorry, I couldn't resist, but I promise thats the last time.  Speaking of Siddartha, have you read the book by Herman Hesse of the same title?  If you have not I would highly reccomend it.  It chronicles the buddha's life in a very easy to read, and very easy to understand manner.  Traveling in a linear fashion from birth to enlightenment to death. This is the best book I have ever read on the subject.  Just thought you might like to know!! 


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #552377 -

hell ya ive read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse, I was just reading that you reccomended it. That book is great, it pretty much states what i belive, that you shouldn't spend your life searching for religion from other people.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: LeroyBr103]
    #552482 -

Exactly....you have to find your own god! :smile:


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"WHATS THE USE OF AUTONOMY WHEN A BUTTON DOES IT ALL?"

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #552778 -


Oh yeah, I forgot.. Excuse my insolence.. *LMAO

No, I haven't, but I will. Siddartha's teachings speak in depths beyond what ears could hear. I consider the best way to learn, to understand, and find insight is to never recite his sutras unless it was necessary. I instll my understanding in my own words and creativity instead.

Exactly....you have to find your own god!

Then tell me, God, the answers to this:

Four kinds of hourses
The excellent horse moves before the whip touches its back.
The good horse runs at the slightest touch of the whip.
The poor horse doesn't go until pain is felt.
The worst horse doesn't budge until pain is felt to the bones.

Which is the best horse for cultivation?

Technically, there's two answers.


Zahid: I've noticed when I look back at my posts that I mirror the thought processing of the recipient [you]... Sometimes with a little too mustard. heh So if you're still around, see if you notice I match your self-righteousness with my fierceness, a reflection of you. I am nothing compare to what you will find out there waiting for you, the kuhrs. And kuhrs sound like dogs.. Woof! *LOL

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #552925 -

Arch_Templar: I still stand by everything that I've said so far. The non-believers will never understand why we believe, and the believers will never understand why the non-believers do not believe. Throw as many theories as you would like, Feud and Jung.. are what, two people? (well no shit). How many people are on this planet? Heh. The way you sound, you think your "perspectives" are right. These are theories. Look it up. I sense a alot of egoism here. But go ahead, rant all your theories and your perspectives all you want. Maybe I'm right in my beliefs, maybe you're right in yours. I believe in what I believe. People like you will never understand that. :-) If you're right, then we'll all experience complete nothingness or enter some mystic afterlife that everyone (including people like, Albert Fish?) can experience. If I'm right though, would you be able to handle it? Have a nice day.


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Edited by Zahid (02/15/02 06:34 PM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #552944 -

"The non-believers will never understand why we believe, and the believers will never understand why the non-believers do not believe."

you forgot to add that the nonbelievers are going to suffer a just fate of eternal damnation


i dont believe, but i understand why you believe


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #552951 -

No, you don't. :laugh: You would like to think that.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #552996 -

im pretty sure i know.
-you want to belong, the social aspect
-you are afraid of what happens when you die (the scariest thought probably being "nothing")
-you have been brainwashed by others
-it makes you happy. Heaven sounds like a cool place huh?
-gives purpose and direction in your life
-allows you to adopt someone elses morals, values and rules instead of taking the time to create your own
-it makes you feel secure. you take comfort in believing there is something higher than all of us ...its kind of a crutch, or safety blanket. you like ?knowing? there is a ?big picture? and it all means something
-its believable to you, makes sense, and you probably really honestly believe it, and FEEL GOD RUNNIN THROUGH MY VEINS PRAISE JESUS
-you like closure. this is the way it is, i dont want to have to change it, question it, or even think about it all that much
-your god threatened you (and me!) with eternal hell


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #553035 -

this is directed to no one in particular, i guess it is going back to the original question "does god exist?" i think something does, i dont know what, i go back and forth on the subject. im baptist by birth, southern at that, and thats one messed up denomination, so i dont follow it. i cant say "god" doesnt exist, because i believe there has been times when "whoever" did me favors when i most needed it.
example: i lost my job, i had filed unemployment, i was receiving 125 bucks a week in benifits. after weeks of looking for a job, my savings ran out and this was not enough to pay for rent, food, utilities, car note, insurance etc. i cried myself to sleep with hopelessness, i said a prayer. the next day, and i bullshit you not, i got a check in the mail for 450 dollars. that was enough to pay for food, pay some utilities, rent etc. each week after that i received 250.00 . even though it was bill that was passed in congress to up the benifits for victims loosing there jobs due to 9/11, it came when i needed it most. i can say that was an act of "god" this is coming from someone that has not been the best christian he can be. i hope as i get older, that i can make that connection with my "god" that my parents have such a good relationship with. but, i dont believe in my own birth right religion, ive seen too many shady preachers, wearing jewelry that they dont need, driving vehicles that they dont need, doing things that will make you question are they in it for the money? and if there is a god, how can they do it in his name? that s a sure ticket to hell, if there is one. but then again, all they have to do is ask for forgiveness, thats such bullshit to me. that means i can sin everyday, even kill someone, break every single commandment, and ive broken quite a few and ask for forgiveness and find my spot in heaven. kinda not fair to the individual who has lived a rightous life, but im human. dont put something in front of me and tell me its bad, i have to see for myself. and to the muslim guy, i lived in saudi arabia, ive experienced islam, even though i never practiced. it borders on fundamentalism, im sorry. but thats my opinion. i kinda like buddism, i like that reincarnation thing, come back until you get it right. at the same time, we as a western society with all are liberties and all our evil doings over here, it sounds like you all believe that our whole nation is lost and no one from the west has a ticket to heaven. that could not be our fault, especially if we have the right to worship as we please, a generation or two slacked off with passing religious beliefs. we cannot possibly be punished for that, oh i forgot we can ask for forgivness, we just have to be sincere since god can see into our hearts. but back to the original question, i believe in something, it scares me more to believe that after my life is over, there is nothing. i cease to exist. dying can be no worse than going to the dentist, going to surgery, whatever, i know you feel the apprehension, but there is no use fighting it, it has to happen anyways. i just dont want what makes "me" to die away, fade away to nothing, thats my fear. if thats the case, life was the cruelest torture that was bestowed upon me.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zylo]
    #553039 -

Well as time wears on and mankind continues to spew toxic waste into the atmosphere and eat grease the genetic material that we pass on to our children will become weaker and weaker as has been happening for millenia...since, uh, the "fall" and especially since God stared degrading the human genetic code so that we have that 120 year expiration date now. And as the gene pool get weaker so the dangers of inbreeding. (Imagine two genetically perfect people... Adam and Eve for lack of a better name, inbreeding, theoretically, wouldn't be an issue that would cause retardation. It would only be an issue for people with more trash fucking with the genetic code, like us at 2002.)

Yeah, I believe. Its not like it was a choice or something...it just the nature of the way things are.

God exists.

I exist.

Jesus Christ.

Those mushrooms are funny things!


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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #553160 -

The concept of God is an anthropomorphic paradigm of the
universe, providing easily understood explanations for the
mysterious aspects of nature.

With God, one does not have to trouble himself with the
"Why?" of existence. With God, there is no reason to fret
over confronting our mortality which the survival instinct is
designed to postpone as long as possible, for in God we are
promised eternal life.

God provides humans with a ready made morality, no need to
grapple with the consequences of one's actions if a quick
consultation with the sacred text or the ready answer from
our favorite cleric will do.

After our parents are gone, there's no need to worry because
there's still God. When we are bad children, God will punish
us, when we are good children he will reward us. God will
destroy our enemies (and their God will destroy their's).

Of course, God is all loving and merciful. He shows this by
making little children suffer from a variety of maladies be it
aids, birth defects, being born to physically and sexually
abusive parents, dying of starvation or any one of a number of
horrible things. This kind, loving merciful fellow also brings
upon or allows the innocent to be subject to earthquakes,
tornados, hurricanes, war, genocide, dictators and torture.

The most curious thing about God is that this all knowing, all
powerful being requires to have his ego massaged and needs
us humble weak creatures to worship him. He also requires
that we abandon our most unique human characteristic, the
ability to reason, and provide him with unquestioned
obedience and accept everything on faith.

Beauty, order, the unexplained and the mysterious exist in
our universe as well as natural disasters, disease, accidents
and unfortunate circumstances individuals are born into.
Why people should project human characteristics upon it all
makes no sense to me.

Does God Exist? Yes, in the minds of many people. It is
their way of making sense of the universe.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MentalHygene]
    #553318 -

there is no god as an omnipotent beeing but as a chaotic force which keeps everything alive, working this force only reacts so it is not omnipotent, mankind disturbs this force so mankind is no part of any kind of godlyness.


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ABC-weaponry for world Peace!!!!
Elsass-Lothringen geh?rt Deutschland!!!
Fuck Humanism!!!!
Let's not argue about who killed who!!
Drop Da Bomb Maan!!!!
H84U!

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: MickyFinn]
    #553390 -

I like your honest reply. I'm from a prodestant background and I made the relationship to my God personal. I know there are phony preachers but just because there are crooked car salesmen---doesn't stop me from buying the car. I just go to the honest one....

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #553467 -

In reply to:

im pretty sure i know.
-you want to belong, the social aspect
-you are afraid of what happens when you die (the scariest thought probably being "nothing")
-you have been brainwashed by others
-it makes you happy. Heaven sounds like a cool place huh?
-gives purpose and direction in your life
-allows you to adopt someone elses morals, values and rules instead of taking the time to create your own
-it makes you feel secure. you take comfort in believing there is something higher than all of us ...its kind of a
crutch, or safety blanket. you like ?knowing? there is a ?big picture? and it all means something
-its believable to you, makes sense, and you probably really honestly believe it, and FEEL GOD RUNNIN THROUGH
MY VEINS PRAISE JESUS
-you like closure. this is the way it is, i dont want to have to change it, question it, or even think about it all that
much
-your god threatened you (and me!) with eternal hell



This is an outsider's view faith. You've proven my point when I say the non-believers will never understand, until the day of their death in this life. Read your post over, Lallafa. Hell isn't forever, either. Only the most warped souls stay there eternity. Anyone with any slight faith and belief in God (in this life) will eventually be located by angels after a fixed sentence in the Fire and brought back to the nymphes of Paradise forever. I see religion as the big picture, you see it as a crutch for the weak and thus you refuse to experience it.


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Edited by Zahid (02/16/02 10:43 AM)

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Zahid]
    #553771 -

You cannot define what I see is right or not, nor non-islamic people. You don't even have clue what I believe in.. I'm through with this discussion.. You may not be an egoist but your words show it clearly, without a doubt.. I only mirrored it..


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #555395 -

I need proof. Without visual proof i don't believe in God. The same goes for most things in my life, if you can't see it then it doesn't exist

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ]
    #555448 -

Contact is the best movie. science vs religion, faith vs. fact. i'd just like to stress how religion is SCREWED, but how that is so completely different than believing in God or Jesus Christ. earlier this week 14 Catholic priests in New England were arrested for molesting children. how fucked up is that...
I for one believe there is a greater order and power to everything. but i don't KNOW. and i also believe it doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of a single entity like God in Heaven.
_ry_


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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ]
    #555479 -

"I need proof. Without visual proof i don't believe in God. The same goes for most things in my life, if you can't see it then it doesn't exist"

i agree.
you should read http://www.crystalinks.com/holographic.html
i dont know about the universe being a hologram, but i know that alain aspects stuff is proven

i believe the things that i see, but i am very willing to accept that there are things we dont know or understand, and maybe never will.

the fact that particles can be connected on a molecular level makes me think that there is much more to existence than the physical world i see


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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Lallafa]
    #555790 -

Doing so many drugs i had damaged my brain very much. On one strange evening my mind begain racing with strange thoughts. I then headed outside to see spirits, and started communicating with them and what i had thought to be god. Turns out i went schizo and had a chemical imbalance. A psycotic break they called it. So now i no longer believe in the possibility of humans having a spirit that lives on in the afterlife. I know a few people that believe in god, and all they can say when i question their beliefs is because god made it that way.

We only experience a glimpse of what is really out there. So many things that are happening behind the curtains we cannot comprehend. So to say you have faith in something is simply blind.


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Droz]
    #555954 -

>>We only experience a glimpse of what is really out there. So many things that are happening behind the curtains we cannot comprehend. So to say you have faith in something is simply blind.

you have a lot of faith that there is more out there behind the curtains.

i think that we make this whole "religion" thing must harder than it needs to be. the way i see it... it's useless and harmful, actually, to use the mind to think about the mind. we cannot comprehend what we cannot observe, and we cannot observe existence. "i'm only seen til i arrive" . i think psychedelics are very useful but people should stop once they get the picture. drugs have a purpose, and they have built-in defense mechanisms to keep people from abusing them. their purpose is to make you aware of reality, in case you can't accomplish that some other way.

this is what i believe... reality is a purposeful existence. i don't care to speculate on god, the afterlife, reincarnation, spirits, etc. i exist, it seems like you all exist also. the world is beautiful when we don't put our own definitions and limitations on it. it appears that everything is intelligently developed and serves a purpose of some sort. i feel, although i can't prove it, that all my thoughts and actions are being recorded somewhere, somehow, for some reason. that's all i need to know.


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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Droz]
    #556069 -

I think you may have hit the area I call "the drug dead end"...

This is my opinion and I don't want to get off topic too far but I don't believe you can find God in drug use. I have had several intense "hard" trips that lead me to what I call "the drug dead end". What I mean is that the drugs took my mind to a state of nothingness....a void..... an area where there was nothing at all no God no devil no anything, just a black void that I looked into....
In order to see and relate to God I had to come back to reality. The drugs changed my thinking but I still had to relate to God with the new information.
On the way to this state of nothing you might see spirits....

God is not threatened by our discussion......He knows He exists....

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #556525 -

What is xianism?
What are these models of God you are refering to?
Thanks

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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: ]
    #557017 -

Ulysees_ is not me, just letting you all know (note the "_" at the end of the imposters name). He has some valid points though. :wink:



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Re: Does God Exist? part one [Re: Ulysees]
    #560169 -

Ulysees: Agh.. Sorry, I came back and found this quite humorous. Why do people keep directing such questions at me??? I'm not a muslim, don't believe in any type of supreme God -- yet I keep getting the questions! ahaha

So I'll make it very clear: I am a templar for no one but for myself. No god has will over me.. I cannot be boxed into a belief system, no matter what. It's my nature to question orthodoxy..

Mycoangelo: Xianism = Christain fundamentalism. One faith, one God, everything else not aligned is the source of Devil [stated by one fundamentalist I debated with]. Xianistic precepts are prevalent in any mysticism, it's just more ridiculously pronounced in monotheism. In the end, it's just the person's clarity and right intention, not the belief system.

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