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Anonymous

Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
    #609057 - 04/15/02 09:52 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

One Elohim was worth 10 men in battle

Just for reference purposes, the Elohim, aka the Nephilim are the beings that reside on the 12th planet. David took down Goliath with a rock to the dome piece.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
    #609061 - 04/15/02 10:02 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Goliath was a product of a Nephilim and a human female, so he was only worth about 5 men in battle or 2.5 Shaqs...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: raytrace]
    #609069 - 04/15/02 10:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

"supposing there is such thing as God"

I suppose I would call it "Nature" or "The Universe."

"if you were God, you would create only good and happiness for everyone, everything and forever i suppose..."

I really can't address that, except to say that adversity does breed character and helps individuals (in this world) to develope towards their potential.

I take issue with the simplistic notions of "God" bandied about by christians and muslims and others of their ilk who can cite no evidence other than ancient texts written for primitive peoples and things written by their "scholars" which are nothing more than derivatives of the originals and/or rationalizations of their belief systems. I have a deep seated mistrust of any belief system which states in any form that those who do not believe in it will suffer punishment merely because they don't believe. I don't cotton to the attitude of "Don't do as I do, do as I say" which so many versions of "God" have demonstrated in their religions. Most importantly, a belief system should not contain contradictions, it should stand up to critical thinking and allow for the assimilation of new information as it becomes available. Christianity, Islam, Judaism and many others don't pass the 'sniff test.'


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #609090 - 04/15/02 10:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Lucifer attempted to take the place of God.....in other words....to overthrow Him......

He did this with full knowledge (of the truth) and he did not have a " tempter".......

Man did not have full knowledge and was tempted....so he can receive salvation.......
Driving man from the garden wasn't a cruel act....it was done so that man would not "gain full knowledge" like Lucifer and then be "unsaveable"......


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Tannis]
    #609109 - 04/15/02 10:58 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Did you ever wonder why he is called Lucifer (The one who brings the light)
Weird name for one that?s supposed to be so bad.
Any way the only thing I agree with the communist thought is that religion is the opium of the masses.


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OfflineSofaJesus
journeyman
Registered: 03/05/02
Posts: 69
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: MeltingPenguin]
    #609150 - 04/15/02 11:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Swami you wrote back to CACA --

Jesus Christ died for YOU.
No. He died as a political prisoner for stirring up discord among the masses. His death was in no way related to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus didn?t worry about politics because he understood their piety self-serving nature and how they would never change, no matter what century it was --- Just look around at the world today and it?s just as blind and fearful of each other as it always was before

When you understand like Jesus you have no need for motives or causes ? You already know?..and your just their to help without making everyone believe in you ? he just asked for people to look into themselves and find everything they needed -- And if you can just look into your heart then political processes are completely irrelevant

?The more things change the more they stay the same? -- I have never learned anything more truthful in my entire life?.

Jesus died for you & me, not for a cause, not for a believe -- Just for love ? LOVE



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"...and to the left where up is down now stand a zebra made of shapes of me and silver and the sun so bring no guilt with you up above the flatline let's just hit the sky exploding into one." [ HUM ]


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OfflineCACA
veteran
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
    #609380 - 04/16/02 04:07 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

There really is too much to say about this right now. I'll come back later. Just off the top of my head, I saw something really wrong there about Nephilim. Nephilim were demons which Satan allowed to coexist in human bodies, which created "strange flesh" and the purpose of that was to contaminate the pure bloodline which the Lord promised he would send a savior (Jesus Christ) who would fill in the gap between us and God, which is sin. And praise the Lord, he did. The very fact that you equate Christianity with hypocrisy shows that there is very much apostasy here, in the revived Roman Empire. As for the question about why he made beings he knew would eventually become evil, I have the same question, but I know that my understanding his work has nothing to do with its absolute truth. I learned that questions to and about God are aside from my faith in Him, because questions are answered - and in His time. You people have been so far from the truth that you think its okay to talk down on God and say you are on level with Him. This world is like a circus. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord. You should praise Him for His mercy.


--------------------
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5


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Anonymous

Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
    #609433 - 04/16/02 05:38 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, don't get me wrong. I am a grateful being of existance and creation because of the life force that God/All that is/The Great Central Sun, gave to me. However, I do not subscribe to the Christian version of God. Some of the things, yes, but not all. I know that God exists in all things. We are all fragments of God's perception. I was raised as a Christian.. it was forced down my throat. At a young age I questioned many of the things Christianity is based on and was given very unsatisfactory answers.. basically.. dont question the lord, you can't understand him. I saw many inconsistencies in Christianity and so I left and sought out another religion. My main problem with the Christian religion is that they claim to be the true religion, and all other religions are wrong. Sure, many religions are like this, but this bothered me. With that comes an air of arrogance and superiority that seems to inflict many Christians. I discovered Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism, and mushrooms, then I became Shroomism.

I equate Christianity with hypocrisy because it is full of hypocrites. That's not to say that all Christians are hypocrites, but that does seem to be the majority from my perspective. If you know anything of the history of the Church, you would know the very evil things they have done in the past, and continue to do. You would know that they have tampered with the Bible on several seperate occassions in order to fit how they wanted to maintain power over people's beliefs. You would know they took out everything in the Bible that Jesus said about reincarnation because the Church does not want people to believe they have another chance. Two words.. The Crusades.

If you have read any of my posts you would know that I profess the name of the Lord all the time. Except I don't say it like that, I either call it Creation, All that is, The First Cause, The Great Central Sun, The Divine Light, or God. Just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I'm not talking about the same God as you.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
    #609484 - 04/16/02 07:01 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

However, I do not subscribe to the Christian version of God.
Greetings my fellow skeptic!


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinecHeMiCaLbLuE
member
Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 158
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #609515 - 04/16/02 07:44 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

god could only forgive the devil if he asked for the forgivenss on his own, (unconditional love), just like anybody here on this earth. when god and those who sit on his throne spoke of revenge on sinners in the revelations i can only hope and pray it was a metaphor to those who do not ask for forgivenss otherwise we would all be going straight to hell.


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insanity with a plan, a plan to stop exercising truth as compared to breathing thin air, but to experience truth as all there is to experience, for what do i not already have that exsists? All i can do is enjoy the ride.


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
    #609752 - 04/16/02 03:23 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

The problem started with the Jewish religion, which was fallowed by the Christians and Muslims (notice this are the religions with more blood shed).
And the reason in my opinion is the distorted view that they the think they are the chosen people, (which is a very infantile view of the world based on ego "we are better than any body else, we are special") with that concept in mind you get later the crusades, the jihad, the problem in the middle east etc, etc, etc.
But what gets me the most is that I could understand, back then people telling those stories because that was there level of understanding, but to quote episodes of the Bible as facts in this era is very infantile.
Well that?s just my opinion.


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OfflineWeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
    #610111 - 04/17/02 12:08 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Christianity is created for political purposes . Put this from that religion...delete this..and this..change this end here..looks cool ...just to add this and this...

And CACA you scared shit out of me....ever considered that you are mistaking..
oh and I heard that original christianity ( roots ) are actualy mushroom cult..

Weird MushroomShaman
Oh and one more thing ...no other religia killed more people then Christianity AND christians


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----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind


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OfflineCACA
veteran
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
    #610117 - 04/17/02 12:17 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Shroomism, you have to understand that there is no way to the Father, except throug His Son, Jesus. Your way of thinking is what is called apostasy.

I would encourage any non-believers to read a book called "Charting The End Times" by Tim Lahaye and Thomas Ice. Christianity is not about superiority or putting others down or arrogance. A true Christian will pray for all non-believers, including enemies. Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism and all polytheistic and naturalistic religions came from Babylon and are lies made to destroy the people Satan is jealous of and despises, the humans.

All groups of people have hypocrites, but who is anyone to judge? How do you know that the hypocrite you saw yesterday isn't struggling themself with trying to let God help him? The Church and Christianity are not the same. The Catholic Bible isn't even the same- and if you're worried about not getting the true message of God's Word, get the NASB, which is the newest Bible with the best translation to present-day english from the original texts.

Jerusalem belongs to Israel and if you know the Bible, you will know that after all is said and done, Jerusalem will belong not to non-believers. If you knew about the Bible, you would know that currently, a prophecy is being fulfilled in the mosque defiling His Holy city. There actually are many prophecies being fulfilled now, but that is one of them; you would know that this time of licentiousness and all-out sinning is just about to come to an end.

My grandmother once saw a man in his prayers, seemingly worshipping the sun. When she asked him why it was that he was worshipping the sun, he said, "I'm not worshipping the sun, I'm worshipping the person who made the sun." He wasn't aware of the Bible or God or our Savior, Jesus Christ.

You definitely are not talking about the same Living God as I am, whose Son came to save us. Praise God.
A big problem plaguing many non-believers is pride. Pride must be set aside and people must humble themselves before God. There really is alot to say, but read that book in Barnes And Nobles. It surely is an interesting read and it will benefit you. Praise God. His mercy is evident to those who seek the truth.


--------------------
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5


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Anonymous

Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
    #610160 - 04/17/02 01:09 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism and all polytheistic and naturalistic religions came from Babylon and are lies made to destroy the people Satan is jealous of and despises, the humans.


Erm... ok whatever you say.

If you believe in God, you should believe in the Sun as God too. Without the sun you would not exist. I would worship the Sun before I got on my knees and prayed to some outside source for help. God is within.

You speak of that man worshipping the Sun as if he is inferior to you because he did not know about Jesus. How is he any different from worshipping the Creator of the Sun than worshipping an invisible God that is in a 2,000 year old book written for simple minded people? At least you could SEE his God. Who created the Sun according to the Bible? God right? The Sun is the closest thing to God that most humans can conceive of, and who's to say the Sun isn't God? Or all the stars for that matter? The Sun provides life for our entire solar system. Without it you would not even be thinking those thoughts of yours.

You tell me to worship God... ok I worship God. But I'm telling you to worship the Sun... so... on your knees and repent your sins in front of the mighty power of the SUN! :sun: Humble yourself, for in the presence of the mighty SUN :sun: you are but a molecule. What happens when you look into the eyes of God according to the Bible? You go blind. What happens when you stare at the :sun:?

:sun: POWER! 


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: ]
    #610168 - 04/17/02 01:24 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

i understand your stance towards belief systems and i agree.

it may be that ?God? goes hand in hand with morals and organized religions, but the idea of ?God? can exist independently of any such correlations.

i can?t really dismiss the idea of ?God? as the great artist, scientist and engineer, even experimenter that gave birth to our universe some 15 billion years ago and acts like a parental figure. all these METAPHORS have come to sound ridiculous after thousands years of abuse by zealots, but still metaphors is probably the most powerful aspect of human expression (probably developing new forms of communication in the future will help). these human characteristics are assigned to the ?Creator? - i think - not merely because we are obsessed with ourselves, but also because for as far as we know, we are the only creatures that express creativity.

the annoying helper-clipper in ms-word is a metaphor created through the use of many layers of metaphors (e.g. ?objects? in high-level programming languages etc.) to serve the purpose of interaction. but, in the end, it is nothing but a series of 0s and 1s (oops, this is also a metaphor). i have no problem with people unwilling or unable to realize that, as long as they don?t destroy my screen to find the little bastard. and i still refer to it as the fucking clipper.

the main purpose ?God? serves for some people is to provide a simple way to be thankful for existence, drain hope, and maybe gain guidance.

i have been raised a christian, and been atheist for some time. now, i suspect that something is there that may deserve at least a minute of humble silence. (ok, I can also be accused of getting excited and having fun by dancing in a ?religious? sort of way at raves.)

by the way, there is a simple "prophecy" i like:
"He who borrows, pays all damage caused by his carelessness"

anyway? just thoughts on a bulletin board?


Edited by raytrace (04/17/02 01:34 AM)


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OfflineLOBO
Vagabond

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 655
Loc: NY
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: CACA]
    #610666 - 04/17/02 05:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

The problem with your logic is that you asume the fairy tales in the bible are true.
Did you know that the story of Moses, is realy a fenician tale.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: LOBO]
    #610671 - 04/17/02 05:36 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Wow! Shroomism and Lobo dissing the Bible - welcome to Swamiland.

Now if I could only get you guys to question modern books and mystic website writings my mission will be complete and I can return to the stars.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleMeltingPenguin
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/29/01
Posts: 2,138
Loc: new england
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
    #610675 - 04/17/02 05:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

there is danger in personifying concepts.........threads like this for instance.

The concepts of good and evil are dangerous themselves, it makes no sense to use a binary system to interpet the world. What one person may see as "evil" another could see as "good". therefor the two concepts are completely relative.


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Growing anything is good for the soul


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OfflineWeirdShroomer
journeyman
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 78
Loc: Sebia
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: Swami]
    #610694 - 04/17/02 06:19 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

"Now if I could only get you guys to question modern books and mystic website writings my mission will be complete and I can return to the stars."

Swami I agree...
But we should question science too... many times in history scientific facts changed ( It was scientific fact that earth was center of universe etc etc ) and there are new theories that can shatter our scientific knowledge. Science don't give all questions.
I agree we should question everything including ourselves


-world is not Black & White....never was-
------------weird------------------




--------------------
----weird-----
Smoking dynamite can seriously blow your mind


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Could God Forgive the devil? [Re: WeirdShroomer]
    #610703 - 04/17/02 06:36 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

But we should question science too...
Most definitely. There are many aspects of modern medicine that are highly suspect. For example: did you know that women with breast cancer who receive NO treatment have the same survival rate as those who get mastectomies? No (alleged) body of knowledge is safe from the Swami's blazing sword.

...many times in history scientific facts changed ( It was scientific fact that earth was center of universe etc etc )
Umm, that was a theory and not a fact, but in general I agree with you.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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