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InvisibleTrueBrode
Stranger

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: Swami]
    #2324243 - 02/11/04 03:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think, at least for the room example, the people that believe in this argument would say that your observing the room has now made it definite for everyone else, and the builders who originally built the room- their observing of the process (and belief in the process) has cemented that room into this shared matrix like reality.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: muhurgle]
    #2324666 - 02/11/04 04:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Please re-read the forum rules, especially #2...


Edited by trendal (02/11/04 06:20 PM)


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: ]
    #2324726 - 02/11/04 04:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think you better go back and read Ped's argument. The first premise doesn't assume God exists.
Next.


this is really stupid. take off your blinders.
it's the SECOND premise that assumes God exists

the first premise:
In order for matter to exist there has to be an apprehending consciousness.

IF THIS PREMISE IS TAKEN TO BE TRUE, the second premise - The universe existed before man - CANNOT be true unless you ASSUME that god exists.
this is simple LOGIC. the argument is recursive and it's internally inconsistent.
-the second premise is predicated on the presupposition that God exists, which is what you're trying to prove in the first place.

the sad thing is, this is the kind of BS is that passes for "philosophical evidence"...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: ]
    #2324740 - 02/11/04 05:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Please re-read the forum rules, especially #2...


Edited by trendal (02/11/04 06:21 PM)


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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2325007 - 02/11/04 06:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Here's what I think (but feel free to correct me wrong, as always).

Quote:

1. In order for matter to exist there has to be an apprehending consciousness.



Agreed. Matter is the "suchness" (Istigkeit) of energy. "Suchness" in this context is the totality of observable qualities - of all characteristics of the energy that can be tasted, felt, smelled, heard or seen. The suchness doesn't exist without the apprehending consciousness.

Quote:

2. The universe existed before man.



Energy existed before mankind came around. Even this is an assumtion, because there is no means of verifying this. But the "suchness" of the energy (matter with its observable qualities) didn't exist without doubt, because when we cannot be sure that what we all call "green" isn't observed by one person as "red" and as "blue" by yet another. There are no absolutes in observation.

The universe is the combination of the totality of suchness and the energy itself. Without suchness, "the universe" is reduced from universe to boundless, amorphous blob of energy. As proven before, the suchness of the energy has to be observed in order for matter to exist. Conclusion: "the universe" didn't exist before life came around, because conscious creatures are needed to apprehend the suchness of the energy.
Energy can be there without being apprehended. Simple example: the invisible bio-electric field around our own brains.

This, to me is where the flaw lies: the premise that matter existed before mankind came around. It's a perfectly logical thing to assume, just like we assume we're a seperate entity from the rest of the world.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Offlinedaba
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: Alan Stone]
    #2325801 - 02/12/04 04:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, perhaps the universe was created by man.
We limit ourselves (and our minds) into this little entity called earth, and we attribute the unknown, much like our brains, to "outer space."

I have not made much sense of it yet, but it is a key puzzle piece! :eyemouth:


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
Male

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: Swami]
    #2332912 - 02/14/04 12:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Swami gots a point, don't you guys think?


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: David_Scape]
    #2332954 - 02/14/04 01:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Don't know.  Haven't seen it yet.  :devil:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisibletimetravel
I'm going toMars!

Registered: 12/08/03
Posts: 163
Loc: Holland
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: ]
    #2332981 - 02/14/04 01:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Even if god came down and showed itself to the world it still won't change the situtation your soul is in. It might make people ACT nicer, and it might make people ACT eviler, but getting into heaven is still going to be just as hard. So why the big deal about needing proof of god? You're either heaven material or you're not.


--------------------
Everything in this post happened 7 years ago. If you do not feel good get a hobby like r/c airplane flying.


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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: I have philosophical evidence for the existence of God! [Re: timetravel]
    #2333037 - 02/14/04 01:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

So why the big deal about needing proof of god?





It comes in handy during tax season.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


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