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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation....
    #3909358 - 03/12/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Belief in Jesus Christ our Lord GOD to be YOUR very Salvation....



Quote:

Quick Blaze said:
The devil is now working overtime becase he knows his time is coming to an end and he will try to gather as many followers as he can. All he can do is try and " play god" until the time comes and he is casted away into the bottomless pit and the new world will come....cast away the fear of the devil by loving one another which will ultimately destroy him




As I spend a lot of time here at the Shroomery (now, in this forum mostly), I consider you all to be an extended family of sorts, just as everyone else here on the earth....  I would do what I could to save ANY family member of mine so I could continue to enjoy the wonderful personallities in the afterlife of eternity known as HEAVEN....  It is of selfless intentions that I try to find ways to let someone (of how I used to think) of "LOGIC" scientific proof thinking, or Black/White thinking, to find ways to WANT to seek this "knowledge" for yourself with OPEN MIND, OPEN EARS, and OPEN HEART....  :heart: 

As I have come to the "realization",
"Heaven" is a part of YOU, it IS fully encompassing and perfectly attainable in your LIFE -- Right HERE, Right NOW on Earth as it is in HEAVEN....  Just as the choice to consider your existance to be in a place of suffering thru FEAR, DOUBT or HELL, Right Here, Right Now....  It is all of one's free choice, and/or finding that FAITH in the face-off with fear itself....    Do YOU live in FEAR...?  It is because YOU live life in DOUBT....  You just *have* to find Peace and Unconditional Love by letting go of fear itself with the exceptance within your heart for GOD in this life, so you can enjoy that eternal peace in the afterlife -as opposed to eternal suffering, doubt and fear.... 

One CAN condition themself as a self perceived "master" of A Disciplined Consciousness, to intermittenly cast out fear and suffering by the Perceived "removing" of feeling and emotions as "becoming" nuetral to a true spirituality of the Devine....  It is to be noted that this is a pure disciplin of the mind, and NOT to be considered to be TRUE Spirituality....  For the doubt and fear IS still there, as this mental conditioning is not a permenent "fix" of the EGO....  One CAN attain an instant Purging of the EGO....  This, as I have truly experienced myself, is 100% possible thru the acceptance of Jesus Christ our Lord GOD into our hearts....

The bringers of DOUBT and FEAR to instill in others are the ones who suffer in their own self induced HELL, because they cannot look past that very suffering - be it mental or physical....  Perhaps lead by the evil forces themselves unknowingly embracing that to which they call the SUFFERING that they allow to plague and rule their lives, Right HERE, Right NOW, as it is a CHOICE....   

It is not of SCIENCE that can prove anything, as FEELINGS of the Heart, or MATTERs of the Heart cannot be scientifically measured with scientific measurement tools, created by MAN....  That of Science, or SCIENTIFIC nature can't even prove science itself, as THEORIES are just that, or more of a theoretical DISTRACTION of EVIL as created by Design by the inherent EVIL Influences of ORIGNAL SIN....  It seems that intelligence is that of a CURSE to mankind....  You either choose to Believe in them, or you don't....  That is a simple and SOLID FACT, as mankind tries to understand the oddities and ~*Wonders*~ that of the Universe we all live in, otherwise known as the UNIVERSE and the HEAVENS were created by GOD....

So, would you consider your current Belief and/or Faith to be something of what man created thru interpretation of speculative perception and expressed ideas of "measurables" and "theories" thru the wonders of cognitive creativeness, or are you able to see past that of an imperfect "staind" man plagued with that of EVIL and SIN as inherent parts of our very existance, and see that GOD did breath LIFE itself into YOU at the beggining of YOUR very LIFE....


**********************************************
"This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit the orphans and widows in their distress,
and to keep oneself unstained by the world...."

.
James 1:27....  This is a quote from the Bible I received this from a trusted friend yesterday, perhaps for this very thread....  :wink:
**********************************************


You *should* not be leading your very meaning of life in the ways of man made knowledge (as to be a distraction for the thinking, intelligent minds of this world), and go with the Pure Instictual Feelings of the Heart.... :heartpump:  For *most* people, There is a Strong Bond with that and SPIRIT of FAMILY....    If that family bond is kept ALIVE and NURTURED as expressed by FEELINGS of the LOVE that you feel for those members, one can have the CAPACITY to let one's self also use the HEART in living Family to help create a RELATIONSHIP with that of GOD....

How does Science Measure SPIRIT of one's LIFE....?  It can't, just as GOD cannot be measured with scientific tools created by MAN....  As GOD can only be "Measured" by that of one's relationship with GOD in the HEART thru FEELINGS and eMOTIONS --to which also cannot be measured by anyone other than yourself....


**********************************************
KNOWLEDGE, THE EVIL cursed TEMPTATION that serves to be the "Wolf in Sheeps Clothing", as it was attained thru ORIGINAL SIN.... 
.
KNOWLEDGE, as developed and created by MAN, serves to put DOUBT in the pure INSTINCT and FEELINGS of the heart, and FULLY effects the most ULTIMATE of FREE CHOICES that MANKIND is inherently born with.... 
**********************************************


The writtings of the Bible do not change, unless an IGNORANT and ARROGANT MAN chooses to DEFILE that of the DEVINE thru "interpretation, or actual re-writing....  All other religions were created by MAN to serve as an alternate DISTRACTION to that to which is REAL.... 


**********************************************
Just consider for a moment....  What if I am right....?  What IF....
I am lead by my HEART a selfless intentions, a soldier of GOD as it were,
to perhaps cast out the fear doubt instilled by the inherent EVIL that all choose to let reside within us.... 
**********************************************


Just consider for a moment....  What if I am right....?  What IF....
If I am not, you will have lost nothing.... 
If I am right and you realize this yourself, you will understand what HEAVEN is RIGHT NOW, within your very heart....


Question...:  To what are the intents that guide my hands to type this stuff....?   
Answer...:  It is the full selfless intentions of helping others find the HEAVEN that fully resides within yourself.... 


Live everyday like it is your LAST, because it just may be....


ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:



Dream Theater, from "Train of Thought"
Song:  As I AM....



For those who understand, I extend my hand....
For the DOUBTFUL I COMMAND, Take me as
I AM....
NOT under your command, I know where I stand...
I won't CHANGE to fit YOUR plan, Take me as
I AM....


Question...:  Why would I sit here and step on the toes of all other personal beliefs not pertaining to GOD....?   
Answer...:  Perhaps I just know what is RIGHT thru my now PURE UNSTAIND feeling in my heart of HEARTS :heartpump::heartpump: as filled with the PURE LOVE of GOD....

Again, I am NOT doing this for me....  It is Pure TrUth....  <===And the heart of "Truth" is YOU....


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3909513 - 03/12/05 11:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

/sigh

One thread is enough for me today :lol:

I'll get back to ya.

If their was a god I wouldn't have to though. 

:hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: =6
:hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: =6
:hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: :hellfire: =6

OMG, mark of teh beast. 

Edit:
If knowledge really was the issue at hand and what caused all of this sin... wouldn't it be better that drugs remained legal then as they supposedly cause brain damage, halitosis, delusions, hemorages, flautence, upset stomach, etc...? Yet... for some reason most of those that are tied in with government are espousing that drugs are to remain illegal including most of those with religious orientation... seems to me that if you guys are all in line with intelligence as a sin... we should be passing those drugs out as they cause the human mind to lose it's capacity to think.

Edit the Edit:
As long as intelligence is a sin, we all have no place even discussing it... for we are sinning by virtue of sharing our expression of a sin. /stops sinning for the night.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/13/05 02:46 AM)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3909552 - 03/13/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Do you believe that people who do not believe that Christ is the Savior will go to "Hell"


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: niteowl]
    #3909582 - 03/13/05 12:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

We already have a thread about that niteowl :lol:

Or is this part 2?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp Just a little something I found over in "Political Activism and Law" :cheers:
It might make you think differently about the image you're projecting via your associations... might not :shrug:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/13/05 12:58 AM)


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3909600 - 03/13/05 12:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbdown:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3910491 - 03/13/05 07:02 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
One thread is enough for me today :lol:
.
I'll get back to ya.
.
If their was a god I wouldn't have to though. 



.
Is one thread enough....?  That would be a matter of personal perception....  :wink:   
Thank you for getting back to me, twice, or, three times total....(?)  :smirk:
and, I don't understand the last comment, wouldn't have to what....?  :heart:  You don't have to do anything, it is ALL free choice, you don't even have to read these very words, but I thank you for reading what you did read....  :smile:  :heart:
.
.
.
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Edit:
If knowledge really was the issue at hand and what caused all of this sin... wouldn't it be better that drugs remained legal then as they supposedly cause brain damage, halitosis, delusions, hemorages, flautence, upset stomach, etc...? Yet... for some reason most of those that are tied in with government are espousing that drugs are to remain illegal including most of those with religious orientation... seems to me that if you guys are all in line with intelligence as a sin... we should be passing those drugs out as they cause the human mind to lose it's capacity to think.



.
WHOAAA....! :eek:    It was never knowledge that caused any sin  -except for Orignal Sin (remember, they ate from the tree of "KNOWLEDGE"....?)  And even "Knowledge" is different than "Intelligence" - to which you even changed the context again (#2)....  You will certainly see if you read that I never said that at all....  :wink:  Knowledge(to which I stated was a "evil curse of temptation" to man) gives us all more choices to be able to freely sin, makes it seem like some sins are "harmless" (deception), and also makes it much more easy to sin with these additional choices....    It still boils down to individual choice -it always has.... 
.
I really like the "mark" of symbolism you left up on your post, FIRE is cool....!  :lol:  Gotta~ love the 18 digitally flaming devils....!  :rotfl:
.
The governmental rules/laws started out as fundementally based on the morality of the Bible -for the most part....  But the very signs of religion is slowly getting sucked out of public facilities as people get "offended" by it's very presence for some reason....(?)  Just like some people might get offended by my writing this very thread....(?)    But, I have said really nothing wrong in stating opinions based on my beliefs here for those that wish to veiw and understand my new belief, plus there is the whole "free speach" thing, so....  :smile:
.
As far as governmental control (which is not to be confused with MY Spirituality) of drug use, some drugs are legal....  But with society and how it sidesteps a lot of drug laws as a whole already, the "guidlines" that could be set up for the "responsible" person *may* not be followed by the "non-responsible" people....    Responsibility is a choice, and when that responsibility is neglected, the free choice of another might be taken away....    I am still thinking that one out, and may be thought about for some time to come....    There are MANY sides to this coin....
.
.
.
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Edit the Edit:
As long as intelligence is a sin, we all have no place even discussing it... for we are sinning by virtue of sharing our expression of a sin. /stops sinning for the night.



.
Well, you have taken one thing that I did not say and are trying to confuse it with what I actually did say, perhaps....  It was never knowledge that caused any sin  -except for Original Sin....  Sin is ALWAYS about making the wrong choice....  Not sure why you are standing on that point that seemingly was taken out of context....?  :wink:
.
.
.
.
Quote:

niteowl said:
Do you believe that people who do not believe that Christ is the Savior will go to "Hell"



.
As far as I know to be true in my beliefs as I know them, with what bits and pieces I do know about what is written in the Bible, it says that people who do not believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord GOD and savior, will not be going to Heaven....  I would not be respecting what I believe to be the truth if I did not respect this as written in the Bible....  But hey, my belief is my belief, as your belief is yours....  It is always about an individual person's free choice....  I have asked MANY MANY questions of people that know the Bible looking for a "loophole" when I did not believe about this very question you asked....  As I have been told, playing "ignorant" and NOT casting out doubt is treated the same as someone who is truly evil in their intents....  I found this to be not necessarily "fair" back then, but I understand more about it now, and I would ask, "what in life IS "fair"....?  As before I made my positively life changing CHOICE, I DID lead my life in a mindful, respectful, Loving, "right" way, towards myself and others....  I had thought I was living "saftely", and would still go to Heaven because of that....  Apparently as I have learned, I was wrong in my ignorance and not asking the right questions....  Perhaps for fear that I already knewn the answer to the question, so I kept myself "blind" to the truth (as I know it now)....    :heart:
.
.
.
.
Quote:

DNKYD said:
:thumbdown:



.
HEEEEYYYYY....!!!  We got one person in here that is down with Jesus....!  :laugh:  :heart:
But please, tell us all what you really think....!  :smirk:  :cool:
:::::waits in anticipation::::: 



ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3911460 - 03/13/05 02:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Religion is merely a tool to control ignorant masses. It divides, not unites. It's a disease to humanity. Free yourself from the bondage you have called "salvation" and learn to think freely. Fairy tales and myths are good as bedtime stories for little kids, nothing more. Learn from the mistakes of those who have passed and rise above these lies.


Edited by DNKYD (03/13/05 03:03 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: DNKYD]
    #3911957 - 03/13/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DNKYD said:
Religion is merely a tool to control ignorant masses. It divides, not unites. It's a disease to humanity. Free yourself from the bondage you have called "salvation" and learn to think freely. Fairy tales and myths are good as bedtime stories for little kids, nothing more. Learn from the mistakes of those who have passed and rise above these lies.




Now that statement will surely place you in hell.

1) Don't think... listen
2) Don't question
3)  :thumbup: you've lost your Sin

The reason why I made such a big deal of intelligence/knowledge is due to the fact that you made such a large issue of its inherent evil by way of speaking of the original sin. In which case you are sinning atm by espousing your knowledge of sin... Let's all close our minds, and stop sinning... It'll make us feel better...

/end facetious rant

Anyhow, I'd much rather be a shepard then a sheep. If you place yourself in all of that symbology, then follow the shepard's that are the wolf's. Like I've mentioned in my previous posts, I've nothing to gain from this, and a hell of a lot to recieve negatively.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3912089 - 03/13/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
Belief in Jesus Christ our Lord GOD to be YOUR very Salvation....
The writtings of the Bible do not change, unless an IGNORANT and ARROGANT MAN chooses to DEFILE that of the DEVINE thru "interpretation, or actual re-writing....  All other religions were created by MAN to serve as an alternate DISTRACTION to that to which is REAL.... 





*BUZZ* WRONG!

The bible as you know it has changed so many times... I can provide you with historical evidence. So basically you're asserting that a changed Bible that hasn't changed is the true Bible?  :whatever:

Beyond that... get off you religionist notions (racism, racist: religionism, religionist).

That could, and most likely is by some parties on theses forums taken as a flame. Thanks for asserting your divine truth.  :rotfl:

/sigh

Anyhow, I suggest you look up the other post about Crist as your salvation... I've provided links and several forms of evidence detailing the changes made to the bible througout history... some shortly after Christ's arrival. Beyond that... please, drop this dogma, you're only huting yourself. Unless you have an original copy of the bible before it was altered... that one time... :lol: (it's been altered a lot  :smirk:)... then please, continue to espouse your beliefs about the Bible being a superior religion containing the "ultimate truth" and further... share your original documents with us.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Registered: 09/24/04
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3912113 - 03/13/05 05:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Parallels between the lives of Jesus and Horus

Christianity was created by man, as was every mythological belief structure that you call religion. It was a copy from a few different religions that were prevalent at the time. It may be a real good story, but it's not a good REAL story.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: DNKYD]
    #3912145 - 03/13/05 05:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

DNKYD... You and I should stop posting about this. If someone wants to believe in a religion that parallels many a Paganistic allegory among others... they should be entitled to.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleDNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3912188 - 03/13/05 05:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Agreed. Who am I to point out the many errors in the ways of chronic fairy tale believers? I shall bow out of this pointless battle.


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Offlinestarptv23
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: DNKYD]
    #3912902 - 03/13/05 08:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

what is this:?????
Jesus Christ is our Lord GOD and savior, will not be going to Heaven.... I would not be respecting what I believe to be the truth if I did not respect this as written in the Bible...

Jesus was a Jew --not a Christan--a Jew that did not like the way the Romans took Judaism to a money making thing...as far a Christian bible the Romans took the Jewish law and made it there own way to conform people into being scared...Jesus was just another man that did not like the way his people was being treated and wanted to change things back to the way it was with out being charged for simple things like taking a bath in the temples to purify themselves...Christan's stolid the Jewish religion and made Jesus into a icon of money....speak for your self when you say he is our god...cus he was just a hippie not a god...if Jesus was here today in America and saw how things got out of hand with the Christan churches and all the money that goes into the church for his name would make him sick..and how many people had to die and lose there own culture for the Christan beliefs he would cry and be ashamed..sorry that is the way i feel...


--------------------
"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: DNKYD]
    #3913234 - 03/13/05 09:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DNKYD said:
Parallels between the lives of Jesus and Horus

Christianity was created by man, as was every mythological belief structure that you call religion. It was a copy from a few different religions that were prevalent at the time. It may be a real good story, but it's not a good REAL story.





http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: JCoke]
    #3913640 - 03/13/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

/puts on his flame proof jacket.

Where to begin?

starptv23:
That is only if you have faith in Jesus's actual existence... as it requires you to, as history shows no direct proof of his existence beyond rhetoric and hearsay.

JCoke:
History doesn't lie, research the beliefs of older religions and the correlations between those of Christian origin as well as Paganistic, Egyptian, and several other prominant other religions at the time.

It's blatant theft, with a few changes.

Look to history, don't look to a website that is used as damage control. I can make a religion up just as easily, deviate slightly form tales told in the past... and call it a religion... Actually some on the shroomery members have helped initieate this. Creative inspiration is the essence of it all.

For a man that is of peace... why is it that the author of the website puts him in a context in which he is being challenged? (VS.)

If George Washington or another prominant figure has any issues with Jesus... I'm sure his supporters (Jesus's) will be on the offensive. If your belief is so secure... one needn't prove it to such an extent... Beliefs are challenged for a reason... one sees a fallacy in it. Not because they're tools/children/minions/servants of the Devil.

~one last thing to say in this post.
If I told you of a Man born of a Virgin, impregnated by god and this happened recently... would you not require proof? Or would you take my word on it?  :smirk:

Or is god but an unidentified Father? In which case, God might have visited these boards on several occasions.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/13/05 11:43 PM)


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3915901 - 03/14/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

JCoke:
History doesn't lie, research the beliefs of older religions and the correlations between those of Christian origin as well as Paganistic, Egyptian, and several other prominant other religions at the time.

It's blatant theft, with a few changes.

i've looked, i've read nothing that backs up the claims of any of those other religions that seem to have influenced or were stollen by the christians story of Jesus.

Look to history, don't look to a website that is used as damage control. I can make a religion up just as easily, deviate slightly form tales told in the past... and call it a religion... Actually some on the shroomery members have helped initieate this. Creative inspiration is the essence of it all.

i've read up on my history, still did'nt see anything to what you two claim.

For a man that is of peace... why is it that the author of the website puts him in a context in which he is being challenged? (VS.)

please, VS = Versus = "As the alternative to or in contrast with.." a hardly would think that would make him anything less than peaceful.

If George Washington or another prominant figure has any issues with Jesus... I'm sure his supporters (Jesus's) will be on the offensive. If your belief is so secure... one needn't prove it to such an extent... Beliefs are challenged for a reason... one sees a fallacy in it. Not because they're tools/children/minions/servants of the Devil.

so i should have just said you all were right, whatever, and move on?? trust me, i do this for your education aswhell as mine..

~one last thing to say in this post.
If I told you of a Man born of a Virgin, impregnated by god and this happened recently... would you not require proof? Or would you take my word on it?  :smirk:

it does'nt matter to me if the virgin birth story is true, i believe it, but it's nothing important, if someone told me a new virgin birth story i could careless, i want the fruit of the story, i could careless about the rest...


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: JCoke]
    #3916170 - 03/14/05 02:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the response JCoke.

No, I'm not saying that you should "fold" as it were. I'm glad you're open to debate.
http://www.fillthevoid.org/Gospel/ButtherearethousandsofreligionsJIL.html (This is light compared to some of the stuff I've seen)

I'm merely suggesting.... that not many "truths" need to be so dogmatic in their assertion of what is "right".
http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible6.htm
(contradictions)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm
(Patriarchy)


http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
(I choose to use this site, as it is a great source of reliable information... full resources provided, feel free to check the facts)
THEN WHY THE MYTH OF JESUS?

Some people actually believe that just because so much voice and ink has spread the word of a character named Jesus throughout history, that this must mean that he actually lived. This argument simply does not hold. The number of people who believe or write about something or the professional degrees they hold say nothing at all about fact. Facts derive out of evidence, not from hearsay, not from hubris scholars, and certainly not from faithful believers. Regardless of the position or admiration held by a scholar, believer, or priest, if he or she cannot support their hypothesis with good evidence, then it can only remain a hypothesis.

While the possibility exists that an actual Jesus lived, the possibility also occurs that a mythology could have arrived totally out of earlier mythologies. Although we have no evidence for a historical Jesus, we certainly have many accounts for the mythologies of the Middle East and Egypt during the first century and before that appear similar to the Christ saviour story.

If you know your ancient history, remember that just before and during the first century, the Jews had prophesied about an upcoming Messiah based on Jewish scripture. Their beliefs influenced many of their followers. We know that powerful beliefs can create self-fulfilling prophesies, and surely this proved just as true in ancient times. It served as a popular dream expressed in Hebrew Scripture for the promise of an "end-time" with a savior to lead them to the promised land. Indeed, Roman records show executions of several would-be Messiahs, (but not a single record mentions a Jesus). Many ancients believed that there could come a final war against the "Sons of Darkness"-- the Romans.

This then could very well have served as the ignition and flame for the future growth of Christianity. This coupled with the pagan myths of the time give sufficient information about how such a religion could have formed. Many of the Hellenistic and pagan myths parallel so closely to the alleged Jesus that to ignore its similarities means to ignore the mythological beliefs of history. Dozens of similar savior stories propagated the minds of humans long before the alleged life of Jesus. Virtually nothing about Jesus "the Christ" came to the Christians as original or new.

For example, the religion of Zoroaster, founded circa 628-551 B.C.E. in ancient Persia which roused mankind in the need for hating a devil, the belief of a paradise, last judgment and resurrection of the dead. Mithraism, an offshoot of Zoroastrianism probably influenced early Christianity. The Magi described in the New Testament appears as Zoroastrian priests. Note the word "paradise" came from the Persian pairidaeza.

The Egyptian mythical Horus, god of light and goodness has many parallels to Jesus. [Leedom, Massey] For some examples:

Horus and the Father as one
Horus, the Father seen in the Son
Horus, light of the world, represented by the symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
Horus served the way, the truth, the life by name and in person
Horus baptized with water by Anup (Jesus baptized with water by John)
Horus the Good Shepherd
Horus as the Lamb (Jesus as the Lamb)
Horus as the Lion (Jesus as the Lion)
Horus identified with the Tat Cross (Jesus with the cross)
The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, Ra the Holy Spirit
Horus the avenger (Jesus who brings the sword)
Horus the afflicted one
Horus as life eternal
Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti (Jesus' 12 disciples)

According to Massey, "The mythical Messiah is Horus in the Osirian Mythos; Har-Khuti in the Sut-Typhonian; Khunsu in that of Amen-Ra; Iu in the cult of Atum-Ra; and the Christ of the Gospels is an amalgam of all these characters."
Osiris, Hercules, Mithra, Hermes, Prometheus, Perseus and others compare to the Christian myth. According to Patrick Campbell of The Mythical Jesus, all served as pre-Christian sun gods, yet all allegedly had gods for fathers, virgins for mothers; had their births announced by stars; got born on the solstice around December 25th; had tyrants who tried to kill them in their infancy; met violent deaths; rose from the dead; and nearly all got worshiped by "wise men" and had allegedly fasted for forty days. [McKinsey, Chapter 5]

The pre-Christian cult of Mithra had a deity of light and truth, son of the Most High, fought against evil, presented the idea of the Logos. Pagan Mithraism mysteries had the burial in a rock tomb, resurrection, sacrament of bread & water (Eucharist), the marking on the forehead with a mystic mark, the symbol of the Rock, the Seven Spirits and seven stars, all before the advent of Christianity.

Even Justin Martyr recognized the analogies between Christianity and Paganism. To the Pagans, he wrote: "When we say that the Word, who is first born of God, was produced without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ, our teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven; we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter (Zeus)." [First Apology, ch. xxi]

Virtually all of the mythical accounts of a savior Jesus have parallels to past pagan mythologies which existed long before Christianity and from the Jewish scriptures that we now call the Old Testament. The accounts of these myths say nothing about historical reality, but they do say a lot about believers, how they believed, and how their beliefs spread.

In the book The Jesus Puzzle, the biblical scholar, Earl Doherty, presents not only a challenge to the existence of an historical Jesus but reveals that early pre-Gospel Christian documents show that the concept of Jesus sprang from non-historical spiritual beliefs of a Christ derived from Jewish scripture and Hellenized myths of savior gods. Nowhere do any of the New Testament epistle writers describe a human Jesus, including Paul. None of the epistles mention a Jesus from Nazareth, an earthly teacher, or as a human miracle worker. Nowhere do we find these writers quoting Jesus. Nowhere do we find them describing any details of Jesus' life on earth or his followers. Nowhere do we find the epistle writers even using the word "disciple" (they of course use the term "apostle" but the word simply means messenger, as Paul saw himself). Except for two well known interpolations, Jesus always gets presented as a spiritual being that existed before all time with God, and that knowledge of Christ came directly from God or as a revelation from the word of scripture. Doherty writes, "Christian documents outside the Gospels, even at the end of the first century and beyond, show no evidence that any tradition about an earthly life and ministry of Jesus were in circulation."

These early historical documents can prove nothing about an actual Jesus but they do show an evolution of belief derived from varied and diverse concepts of Christianity, starting from a purely spiritual form of Christ to a human figure who embodied that spirit, as portrayed in the Gospels. The New Testament stories appears as an eclectic hodgepodge of Jewish, Hellenized and pagan stories compiled by pietistic believers to appeal to an audience for their particular religious times.

Footnotes for "Origins of Christianity"
http://www.truthbeknown.com/footnote.htm

http://www.geocities.com/darkistrein666/maxinest001.html
relatively biased, but backed by historical evidence... (trying to find objectivity on the internet... is... rarely possible)

Edit:
I'm still not sure why you disagree with the ramifications of the Virgin account that I presented, and yet still hold onto your belief. Nonetheless you are more then entitled to believe as you wish.

DNKYD also provided evidence of the shared elements regarding the virgin birth of Horus and Jesus by a Virgin... coincidence? I doubt it... ultimately the determination of the event and the result of the analysis is by dating the creation of the stories. I didn't mean stories, I meant historical accounts.

More on Horus:
http://www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/horus.html


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/14/05 04:17 PM)


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3916748 - 03/14/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I find it odd you tell me in another thread that God in the NT is nice and all peaceful, but in the OT he was pissed off and angry, and know you give me a website that decribes jesus as angry:

"And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, 'Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise.'" (John 2:14-16)

??

besides that, alot of the other things on this site http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible6.htm where pretty laughable, you have to agree, i mean beast praising God in heaven = sounds like hell to me! ...also, most of revelation i suspect was induced by some kinda potent angelic space acid (read rev. 10) imo anyways..not that it really matters though..

other than that, you do got reason to believe jesus was'nt real, you can think twelve guys got together, got piss drunk, and they decided to write a book and to sell it as the thruth, but after reading up on horus and egypitian mythology, i still don't see it as enough evindence to say it was copied/stollen..like for example, it was'nt a virgin birth, his father was dead when he was born, yes, but his mom fucked his dead body, resulting in his birth..you can still think he was'nt historically real, but to claim you know where they got the ideas for this "story" is liitle tougher for me to accept..but that's not really the part that is important now is it?? oh well..

niteowl: Do you believe that people who do not believe that Christ is the Savior will go to "Hell"

yes and no, (going on the idea that jesus was a real person), you see, when Jesus said he was the only way to the father, he was talking to jews who were evil and corrupted, he very well could have been talking about his teachings being the only way, so if you were to decide being "evil" or whatever and that jesus's teachings were a bunch of crap, than yes, you would go to "hell"..

another way to look at it is (again, going on if Jesus was a real person), that Jesus performed miracles, did the unexplainable ect ect, he gave people he was talking to something to believe in, unless you can do the things Jesus did, i don't think anyone is on any ground to say he is the "only" way, for example, the blind man jesus gave sight too, the pharisees said "this man could'nt have healed your sight, he's a sinner", the once blind man says "i don't know who he is, if he is a sinner or the messiah, all i know is i once was blind and know i see, what can i say?"..


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: JCoke]
    #3916826 - 03/14/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

JCoke... you can be daft as you want to believe... the facts speak for themselves.. I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm not trying to change your opinion.. I'm trying to show you the root of your belief.

You can look at it objectively, and close off your subjective beliefs... or you can continue to be subjective and be inspired by dogma. Make sure you review all sites... I'm sorry, I know the belief in Horus, and all the correlations presented, as well as the historical significance + the fact that it was written well before JC's inception might seem to be a bit off... :whatever:

Also read the footnotes of Christ as well please... even more blatant explanation... If you wish I'll help you decode it.

As far as God and Jesus changing their nature... you need only to read the Bible... it need not to be taken out of context in any form... The Bible speaks for itself... unless these are just minor blunders "lost in translation" as it were.

Quote:

JCoke said:
"And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, 'Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise.'" (John 2:14-16)




From fearfect in the previously mentioned thread:
Jos 6:1 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in.
Jos 6:2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.
Jos 6:3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.
........
Jos 6:16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the LORD hath given you the city.
Jos 6:17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.
....
Jos 6:19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD.
......
Jos 6:24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.


Change of heart? Or an ancient belief contradicting itself?  :smirk:

Or is the LORD picky as to what he values?

/wonders why an omniscient being that is capable of everything would require a treasury.

Guess I'd need to be one.... damn those "mysterious ways".

Edit:
Their are several accounts of Horus... all older then the Bible. Beyond that, you can read whichever version that supports your belief... or you can be objective and look to history.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/14/05 06:13 PM)


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Belief in GOD and Jesus Christ to be YOUR very Salvation.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3916892 - 03/14/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I was raised Roman Catholic. However, I will not base my life's goals on a medley of writings by men whom I know nothing about. I don't know anything of the social and political situations of the time. I don't know anything of the people's reasons to perhaps stretch the truth, or not to. I cannot be 100 percent sure that some crooked men did not write or alter the book for their own personal gain. I will never be a Christian again. I would be nothing but a fool to do so. This I believe, with all of my being.


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