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Some Christians and the Atheist
    #777591 -

On Marriage:

The atheist: I get married to fulfill legal and societal obligations.

Some faithful: I get married because it is a holy sacrament and I make this vow before God and man.

The atheist: How come as many Christians as atheists get divorced?

Some faithful: We are not perfect.

The atheist: So then you don't REALLY believe in marriage?


On Health:

The atheist: What does the Bible say about taking care of your body?

Some faithful: It says that the body is the Holy Temple of the spirit and should be treated as a sacred gift.

The atheist: How come there are as many fat, smoking Christians as atheists?

Some faithful: We are not perfect.

The atheist: So then you don't REALLY believe in the sanctity of the body?


On the Ten Commandments:

The atheist: According to what set of rules do you live your life?

Some faithful: The Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus.

The atheist: How come there are as many thiefs, murderers, pedophiles, adulterers among Christians as among atheists?

Some faithful: We are not perfect.

The atheist: So then you don't REALLY believe in the Ten Commandments?


On the Redemption:

Some faithful: We would like to save your soul so that you can be like us.

The atheist: How would I be different?

Some faithful: You would be saved!

The atheist: Cool. But I could basically do whatever I want to?

Some faithful: No that would be sin.

The atheist: But you sin...

Some faithful: Yes, but we feel GUILTY afterwards.


A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
A difference that makes no difference is no difference.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (07/29/02 10:06 PM)

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: Swami]
    #777672 -

streching it swami.
but peace braa.
to me, atheism is a great excuse out of every moral responsibility. but i like to own up to reality. but that's just me you know. i could be wrong.


--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: Swami]
    #777686 -

Deleted by admin

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: World Spirit]
    #777708 -

Oh, the old holier than thou logic, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: ]
    #777714 -

Deleted by admin

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: World Spirit]
    #777719 -

I feel your Christian love (guess I struck a nerve).

Edited by Evolving (07/26/02 07:10 AM)

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: ]
    #777746 -

Deleted by admin

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: World Spirit]
    #777768 -

Sorry, when I encounter arrogant statements such as this, "To the unbeliever, there is no atonement. Therefore he/she dies in his/her sins with no truthful hope for a future," it begs an appropriate response.

Basically, from what I gather from your post is that Christianity then boils down to the selfish desire to save your own life (or in your parlance, soul). The primary motivation, regardless of the talk and preaching of selfless love, is essentially based on the primal urge for survival of the self. This makes perfect sense as a motivation, but doesn't explain the dogma.

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: Swami]
    #777780 -

Apparently, you can't tell the 'sheep' from the 'wolves in sheep's clothing.' Most Americans who are not clearly Jews, Muslims, or any other non-Christian faith, denote themselves as 'Christians,' not as 'Gentiles.' Most people are shallow and lack even rudimentary self-knowledge. It is NOT what people call themselves that defines them, it is their Way of Being.

The author Matthew does make some provision for divorce, but divorce was granted in Judaism. It was the Roman Catholic Church that set the standard for no divorce. "What God has joined, let no man put asunder." God joins two 'souls' who are willing to join. Marriage is a matter of free-will. When I married my ex-wife, she was thinking 'I Do...for as long as it suits me' when she said "I do." Divorce became the only way for me to escape a pathological situation and maintain my mental health and my faith. The ex remains Alcoholic and Borderline Personality Disordered with Antisocial features. Spiritual marriage never occurred, hence divorcement was only a legal procedure.

It is extremely doubtful that gluttonous, orally-addicted individuals are actually Christian. Instead of being sustained by 'spiritual manna,' inner sources of sustenance, they rely on food, drink, smoke and whatever else to comfort and satify their cravings due to inner emptiness. The Holy Spirit is also called the Comforter, because It is a Transcendental 'energy' {Eastern Orthodoxy] that nourishes our consciousness (spirit).

The Decalogue - Ten Commandments as a summary of the Old Testament plus the teachings of Jesus is a funny stereotype of the average American confession of faith. Don't forget the Golden Rule! Okelly-Dokelly!

Christians don't save people, only God saves people. It is just presumption when religious fanatics insist on hammering someone with their private mission to save people. They're just ego-inflated. If the scheme is predestination, than it is already determined who will be saved for Eternal Beatitude.

Instead of joking about the illusions and delusions that go by the name of Christian, why not get down to the Brilliant Singularity that radiates the Truth of the matter? Why not focus on what is Really Real about the Logos of God - this Christ - in one's moment-to-moment awareness? It is far easier for the average 'Christian' to sing hymns of praise about Jesus, than to Think/Feel/Intuit [i.e., experience] Christ with each breath and heartbeat. 'Nope...no time for that...I have important things to do at work today. I gotta wheel and deal; buy and lie; spiel and steal. No time for heightened compassionate awareness til next Sunday at church...'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: ]
    #777782 -

Deleted by admin

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: Swami]
    #777798 -

Swami, I really expected so much more from you. Your caricature of the Christian is known as "poisoning the well". If you are trying to show evidence that some "believers" are not devout, why bother? If you are trying to show there is no difference between some "believers" and some atheists, again, why bother?

What is the point you were trying to make? Without directly stating your reason or the conclusions you draw from your biased dialogue we are left with little to go on.

Of course this always gives you the hiding place of ultraliteralism if one should choose to take your bait and give some meaning to your post. You can always tell us what you didn't say.

But of course you knew that, didn't you?

Cheers,

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: ]
    #777806 -

Deleted by admin

Edited by enter (07/26/02 08:23 AM)

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: ]
    #777808 -

What you deign appropriate others do not. I am afraid you are conflating the subjectivity of the matter.

You are correct when you say that some "believers" are inappropriately motivated. But that has little to do with the verity of the truths of sacred texts.

A little ignoratio elenchi, wouldn't you say?

Cheers,

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: Swami]
    #777810 -

The atheist: How come as many Christians as atheists get divorced?

The atheist: How come there are as many fat, smoking Christians as atheists?

The atheist: How come there are as many thiefs, murderers, pedophiles, adulterers among Christians as among atheists?

The atheist: How come there are as many thiefs, murderers, pedophiles, adulterers among Christians as among atheists?

Hmm... This atheist sure does like to assume a lot of things.



--------------------
Namaste.

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #777821 -

to me, atheism is a great excuse out of every moral responsibility. but i like to own up to reality. but that's just me you know. i could be wrong.

Of course you're wrong

I don't see why so many people think atheists live without morals. Religious people don't have an monopoly on being moral. They just get their morals from a book; I get mine from compassion, empathy and love. Do you really need a religion to make you a friendly, moral person? I like to own up to reality too, and that's why I don't believe in God.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: World Spirit]
    #777824 -

I actually enjoy posts like this because Christians need to have thicker skin than they do.

Damn right!


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #777827 -

Deleted by admin

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: World Spirit]
    #777831 -

Deleted by admin

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: World Spirit]
    #777852 -

Hi enter,

I have read many of Swami's posts/threads but if he is funny to some that must be a matter of subjectivity as well. I could detect no humor in his post.

I enjoy reading his comments but if I detect the slightest error I will be sure to point it out. As I am sure he would do for me.

I like Swami as well as I know him. In other message boards baiting is the sport of trolls.

Cheers,

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Re: The Christian and the Atheist [Re: ]
    #777857 -

What you deign appropriate others do not.
There seems to be a lot of that going around.

I am afraid you are conflating the subjectivity of the matter.
How so?

You are correct when you say that some "believers" are inappropriately motivated.
I never said their motivation was inappropriate, I stated "This makes perfect sense as a motivation"

But that has little to do with the verity of the truths of sacred texts.
Exactly (" but doesn't explain the dogma").

A little ignoratio elenchi, wouldn't you say?
No I wouldn't, I speak English.


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