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Offlinebeatlesrock
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how can athiests exist?
    #882074 - 09/13/02 01:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

i have never been able to get a clear answer for this. how can you possibly believe that a superior being, whatever that is, doesnt exist? we are all basically ignorant, we know how to survive but we have no understandings of why we are here and how we got here. so how could we be wise enough to know what is the reason for anything, or just the same, what *isnt* the reason for everything?

as ignorant as we all are, it takes faith to believe that "god" doesnt exits, whatever god may be. so i find it hypocritical, arrogant, and a little funny that athiests attack believers of god.

btw, i resent the idea that "God" is a man who lives in heaven behind pearly gates. i think that athiests think everyone who believes in god believes in this sort of being, this doer of good. but its not like that at all.

i would like it if fliquid responded

btw, i am agnostic.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882080 - 09/13/02 01:58 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I believe in trees


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InvisibleSmack31
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882088 - 09/13/02 02:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

my personal opinion, and this does not apply to all athiests, maybe i am just thinking in general terms of people that i know... people grow up with all theses ideas of christianity getting thrown at them, and they can see something seriously wrong and false in the matter, so they step out. they take the opposition... but instead of starting to seek the truth once they step out, instead of looking further, they built up their defense to hold their ground... but then again i've been drinking a tad, so i'm probably just rambling one aspect of a topic...  :grin:


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Onlinewrestler_az
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882102 - 09/13/02 02:13 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

im not really sure what to believe, i cant put something this important on faith alone. im not sure what happens when we die, as is everyone else.... which i think has alot to do with a lot of peoples dependancy on "god" because if they believe in god, then they have a place to go when they die, making death seem not so permanent and lifeless. my question is, why doesnt god speak through burning bushes anymore? i mean, why doesnt he just show himself so discussions like these wont be necessary? i am truley a NON believer.... i dont believe in gods' existance(or that is, any of the contempory existances i.e. the man behind the pearly gates) nor do i refute the possibility of there being one. i do HOPE that there is something out there, so that when we die we just dont turn into worm food...i also hope that if there is a god, hes not as selfish, petty and erogent as the one so oftenly described on these forums.


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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InvisibleSmack31
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #882146 - 09/13/02 02:30 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

i think one thing to consider is "does god really have human qualities." does he really speak to people, or do these people that "talk to god" really just collect an understanding somehow...

and as far as what happens when you die... you're body may die, but the energy that gives you life cannot. it may transform, but energy does not die. and for the people that believe in evolution as and deny creation... what did we evolve from, there had to be some point at which something was created in order for it to evolve.. and for the people that give a single God the all power... where did God come from, what created him?

we need to takes a few steps beyond the typical arguments of god/evolution, because for me anyway, it all leads back to questions that are impossible to answer.


all i know is that there is an energy that gives us life... where it comes from i don't know.


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Offlinedogkisser
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882395 - 09/13/02 04:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I.......well........i believe in................people with dogs should pick up the fuckin shit after their damn dog........i step in dog shit too often........POOPER SCOOP PEOPLE!....


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Once the doors of perception have been unlocked, Never again can they be locked, Only restricted..if one knows how...
http://www.angelfire.com/clone/hallucinogen/index.html

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Anonymous

Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882456 - 09/13/02 05:24 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I believe in the wind, especially when I break it.


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Onlinewrestler_az
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: Smack31]
    #882460 - 09/13/02 05:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

see.....thats what bugs me....who says it has to be either creation or evolution.....why not both? couldnt it be possible that god created evolution? i mean, the order in which things were created in the bible are in the same order as they supposedly evolved. and the bible makes no reference to how long adam and eve roamed around in the garden naked and eating the yummy mushrooms and what not.... i am neither for creation or evolution.....there seems to be evidence and holes for both.....


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Onlinewrestler_az
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: ]
    #882462 - 09/13/02 05:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

lol :grin: 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: Smack31]
    #882527 - 09/13/02 06:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

you're body may die, but the energy that gives you life cannot. it may transform, but energy does not die.

Unless I'm missing something very obvious here, your statement can be easily argued. What is energy? I'm assuming you are referring to the energy as physicists know it; "the quantity of work a system is capable of doing." If this in NOT the energy you are talking about, you don't need to read the rest of my post.

Ok, so we know that our nervous systems basically conducts tiny electric pulses that control our body movements and thoughts in our brain. Is this the energy that gives us life, or better put, our awareness of existence through our consciousness? All our brain is doing is transmitting little pulses of energy through our neurons. When you die, that energy just dissolves into your body. Whether you die from old age or from a gunshot wound, your organs stop functioning and whatever energy is in them, is stored. That is why we decompose slowly and don't turn into ashes the moment we die. It takes energy to keep your body functioning properly and not eroding away. The life energy you're talking about seems to be going somewhere....may I ask how and where to? That is how does it leave your dead body and where does it go? So in a sense I agree with your statement, energy transforms and it cannot be destroyed, what I'm saying is that it goes back in the earth.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: Smack31]
    #882565 - 09/13/02 06:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I agree Smack... I know alot of people who were fed fundamental Christianity when they were young and as a result rebelled against it, but instead of seeing that some aspects of religion may contain truth, they set up a wall of doubts and fear against questions such as "is there a god?" and "is there an after-life?" and these doubts constantly nag at them and hold them back from one of the main goals of spirituality -inner peace and knowing. To me this is just an imbalance of logic... but who am I to say what is balanced and not? It all comes down to what you feel inside.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Onlinewrestler_az
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: chodamunky]
    #882596 - 09/13/02 06:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

so the earth is our god :grin: 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Invisiblematts
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: wrestler_az]
    #882638 - 09/13/02 07:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: matts]
    #882688 - 09/13/02 07:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

God reminds me a lot of Hitiler. God says "if you don't follow me blindly, and put your faith in me, I will send you to a place where you will suffer for all of eternity."

Something tells me that's people at the top of organized religion speaking, not God...
Don't judge the shepherd by the sheep.  :smile: 


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Invisiblematts
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: Adamist]
    #882696 - 09/13/02 07:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: matts]
    #882700 - 09/13/02 07:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Damn organized religion.  :mad: 


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882714 - 09/13/02 07:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

First of all, how do you know which of the following (if any) is "right"?

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Buddhism
Hinduism
Confucianism
Taoism
Shinto
Ancient Roman
Ancient Greek
Incan
Aztec
Rastafarianism
etc...

Clearly there is no consensus on the matter. As you learn about them, some of them may strike you as being almost "silly". It is good to remember that mythology is somebody else's religion. Also, not all religions have deities.

In the end you also come to the realization that almost everybody just follows whatever beliefs their parents taught them.

Another approach then is to look for ideas and beliefs. How would you choose between the Christian God and, for example, the Titans or Brahma? Saying that this or that happens and we don't understand how isn't a very good basis - it is much too easy to fall into the "god of the gaps" problem. One is also still left with the origin of the deity or deities to explain, and answers like "they were just there" hardly solve the problem.

Of course, I can't just walk up to God and say hi and shake his hand. The Hindus have their gods manifest as avatars from time to time, so you could shake their hands and chat with them. I'll admit that I haven't studied Hinduism enough yet to give it a good evaluation.

From an atheistic veiwpoint, the simplest answer is that the universe was just there and eliminate the deities. Current physics even tells us that matter is spontaneously created and destroyed around us all the time. Why should I need to invoke a being (of whatever nature) to cause things to happen? Attributing ludicrous attributes to the being (omniscience or omnipotence, for example) certainly doesn't help things any.


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Happy mushrooming!


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: beatlesrock]
    #882721 - 09/13/02 07:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I have never been able to get a clear answer for this: How can you possibly believe that a superior being exists?

I believe a superior being doesn't exist for the same reason I believe the tooth fairy doesn't exist: zero indication, zero evidence. Just stories.

In reply to:

we are all basically ignorant, we know how to survive but we have no understandings of why we are here and how we got here.




I think we have a pretty good understanding of how we got here. Nobody wil ever answer why we are here. Man's attempts at doing so have resulted in religion.

In reply to:

as ignorant as we all are, it takes faith to believe that "god" doesnt exits, whatever god may be. so i find it hypocritical, arrogant, and a little funny that athiests attack believers of god.




Hypocritical how?
Arrogant how?
Funny how?

FYI one doesn't have to attack believers of God to be an atheist. It also takes faith to believe ANYTHING. Why is a supernatural God a likely explanation for why we are here?

In reply to:

i think that athiests think everyone who believes in god believes in this sort of being, this doer of good.




That's ridiculous. Why do you think that?

In reply to:

but its not like that at all.




Umm... how do you know this?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: Smack31]
    #882727 - 09/13/02 07:56 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Your Back is smackwards now. What gives?


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: how can athiests exist? [Re: ToxicMan]
    #882753 - 09/13/02 08:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting.

Define matter please.

Cheers,


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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