DieCommie said:

And there is no chance it was a drug induced fantasy that has nothing to do with an external reality?

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Isn't it a living organism's modus operandi to continue surviving?

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I'm not sure what to make of the term "terms of survival" since I didn't even introduce it to this thread...

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What are you talking about?
Aren't you the one that said:
"In terms of survival, hallucinations are useless."
Are you amnesic or what?

Now that we discovered that you're the one who introduced this term to the thread, can you answer what these terms of survival are? Without knowing them, it is logically impossible to continue your line of reasoning that says that it is in these terms of survival that hallucinations are useless.

Cognitive_Shift said:

DieCommie said:

And there is no chance it was a drug induced fantasy that has nothing to do with an external reality?

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Oh no, it could have been a drug induced fantasy.  But it doesn't feel like it.  In fact it feels more real than me here typing this...

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Poid said:

, you think death anxiety manifests itself merely as a physical symptom!

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Cognitive_Shift said:

I mean according to Jaynes hallucinations had everything to do with our survival

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Jaynes's theories on consciousness and the bicameral mind proved highly controversial. An early criticism by philosopher Ned Block argued that Jaynes had confused the emergence of consciousness with the emergence of the concept of consciousness. In other words, according to Block, humans were conscious all along but didn't have the concept of consciousness and thus did not discuss it in their texts. Jaynes and Daniel Dennett countered that for some things, such as money, baseball, or consciousness, one cannot have the thing without also having the concept of the thing.[2] Block's arguments have more recently been meticulously countered by the Dutch philosopher Jan Sleutels

At the time of publication of The Origin of Consciousness, Jaynes was criticized for publishing with a trade publisher and not submitting the work for peer review. The book was, however, reviewed by a number of prominent academics prior to publication, including Stanford psychologist Ernest Hilgard, psychologist Isodor Chein, an anonymous anthropologist, and several others. It was a successful work of popular science, selling out the first print run before a second could replace it. The book was a nominee for the National Book Award in 1978, and received dozens of positive book reviews, including those by well-known critics such as John Updike in The New Yorker, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt in the New York Times, and Marshall McLuhan in the Toronto Globe and Mail. Articles on Jaynes's theory appeared in Time magazine and Psychology Today in 1977. Jaynes later expanded on the ideas in his book in a series of commentaries in the journal Behavioral and Brain Sciences, in lectures and discussions published in Canadian Psychology, and in Art/World. He wrote an extensive Afterword for the 1990 edition of his book, in which he expanded on his theory and addressed some of the criticisms. More than 30 years later, Jaynes's book is still in print.

Other prominent writers and scientists whose works were influenced or affected by Jaynes's theories include Daniel Dennett, William S. Burroughs, Neal Stephenson, Steven Pinker, and Ken Wilbur. Jaynes's theory inspired the investigation of auditory hallucinations by researchers such as psychologist Thomas Posey and clinical psychologist John Hamilton, which ultimately has led to a rethinking of the association of auditory hallucinations and mental illness. Jaynes's theory has been cited in hundreds of scientific and popular books.

In the late 1990s, Jaynes's ideas received renewed attention as brain imaging technology confirmed many of his early predictions. A 2007 book titled Reflections on the Dawn of Consciousness: Julian Jaynes's Bicameral Mind Theory Revisited contains several of Jaynes's essays along with chapters by scholars from a variety of disciplines expanding on his ideas. At the April 2008 "Toward a Science of Consciousness" Conference held in Tucson, Arizona, Marcel Kuijsten (Executive Director and Founder of the Julian Jaynes Society) and Brian J. McVeigh (University of Arizona) hosted a workshop devoted to Jaynesian psychology. At the same conference, a panel devoted to Jaynes was also held, with John Limber (University of New Hampshire), Marcel Kuijsten, John Hainly (Southern University), Scott Greer (University of Prince Edward Island), and Brian J. McVeigh presenting relevant research. At the same conference the philosopher Jan Sleutels (Leiden University) presented on Jaynesian psychology.

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zen buddy said:

Poid said:

, you think death anxiety manifests itself merely as a physical symptom!

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Anxiety is very hard to miss.

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Poid said:

Can you provide his reasoning for believing so?

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At one time, human nature was split in two, an executive part called a god, and a follower part called a man. Neither part was Consciously aware.  According to Jaynes, ancient people in the bicameral state would experience the world in a manner that has similarities to that of a modern-day schizophrenic. Rather than making conscious evaluations in novel or unexpected situations, the person would hallucinate a voice or "god" giving admonitory advice or commands, and obey these voices without question; one would not be at all conscious of one's own thought processes per se.

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Jaynes theorized that a shift from bicameralism marked the beginning of introspection and consciousness as we know it today. According to Jaynes, this bicameral mentality began malfunctioning or "breaking down" during the second millennium BC. He speculates that primitive ancient societies tended to collapse periodically, (as in Egypt's Intermediate Periods and the periodically vanishing cities of the Mayas) as changes in the environment strained the socio-cultural equilibria sustained by this bicameral mindset. The mass migrations of the second millennium BC, caused by Mediterranean-wide earthquakes, created a rash of unexpected situations and stresses that required ancient minds to become more flexible and creative. Self-awareness, or consciousness, was the culturally evolved solution to this problem. This necessity of communicating commonly observed phenomena among individuals who shared no common language or cultural upbringing encouraged those communities to become self-aware to survive in a new environment. Thus consciousness, like bicamerality, emerged as a neurological adaptation to social complexity in a changing world.

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Schizophrenia is the result of intense death anxiety

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I smell the bullshit coming over the ocean.

Poid said:

Schizophrenia is the result of intense death anxiety.

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  Are you a leading researcher in the field of psychiatry?  From what i understand there is a link between low dopamine levels and schizophrenia, but nothing has been proved.

Poid said:

I suppose there are no psychological aspects to schizophrenia.

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yeah there is, its intense death anxiety

Poid said:

Schizophrenia is the result of intense death anxiety, so I see how it and survival are related. I don't, though, see how hallucinations in any way improve one's chances of survival here on Earth.

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Poid said:

You don't even kow the reasoning behind this idea, yet you are mocking it. Hmmm...

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To be fair, mockery is a pretty common response to wild claims made without explanation or support.