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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end?
    #1476900 - 04/20/03 06:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Do you believe that just before you are about to die you sill succumb to the awesome power of GOD? Your father and maker, the beginning and the end.
Are you willing to wager the ultimate prize?

Btw I'm not a believer although i might just be before i die.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1476979 - 04/20/03 06:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome power of who?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1477052 - 04/20/03 07:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i won't walk into death like a scared little puppy. face your demons before the time comes.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: ]
    #1477188 - 04/20/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i won't walk into death like a scared little puppy.

No, it will be more like a scared little human.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Swami]
    #1477274 - 04/20/03 09:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yes, i would be a scared human, but i wouldn't shatter my principles and belief in a god at the notion that i might die.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1477446 - 04/20/03 10:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I refuse to base my beliefs on fear of the unknown. Until I see definitive proof that there is such a place as hell and that I will go there if I don't believe, I refuse to take up Pasqual's wager.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedjd586
Underpants Gnome

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 1,655
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1477470 - 04/20/03 10:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That's a good question... I don't know what I'll do till the time comes in which I have to face a situation like that. I'm agnostic so I do believe that there is a higher power, who or what it is remains to be seen in death. I believe I'll stand by my spiritual views until I die, but hopefully I have many more years to come.

I'm sure if I get diagnosed with cancer and I have a set time frame to live, I might change my mind and seek refuge within The BIble. But to me, as of right now, The Bible isn't much more then a glorified epic fable.


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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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Invisiblebert
bodhi

Registered: 10/14/02
Posts: 2,819
Loc: state
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: djd586]
    #1477493 - 04/20/03 10:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I thought agnostic meant that you believe that knowledge of God or a higher power is unknowable or unprovable.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinedjd586
Underpants Gnome

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 1,655
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: bert]
    #1477539 - 04/20/03 11:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, that's exactly what is it and what I said... "I'm agnostic so I do believe that there is a higher power, who or what it is remains to be seen in death."


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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1477644 - 04/20/03 11:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If something is proven to me during/after death that I hadn't believed previously, like for instance, if when I died suddenly God appeared before me and said "I am God and you are dead - this is the afterlife; these are angels, those are demons down there, yadda yadda," then certainly I'd become a believer..

Otherwise, I'm sticking with what I KNOW and can prove; everything else is just a large orgy of possibilities/probabilities dancing in my brain :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
as above, so below
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 1,947
Loc: Malice, Tx
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1478095 - 04/21/03 03:07 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

it seems highly unlikey that i'd "submit" to the bible on my deathbed, Christianity as a whole has always seemed kinda...... wrong, I don't believe that you need to follow all of christianity's rules, god isn't as simple as they make him/her/it out to be, as long as i've lived a life that I feel has been "right" I'll go to "heaven" or whatever you might call it.

so what if the Christians are wrong?


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OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,275
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Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #1478274 - 04/21/03 07:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

There is a difference between an agnostic and an atheist in this situation. The atheist would be proven wrong , the agnostic (like myself) will be accepting and proving one of the previous probable theories.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: MAIA]
    #1478737 - 04/21/03 12:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I don't believe in agnostics. Either you believe its possible or you don't.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1478773 - 04/21/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Either you believe its possible or you don't.

I thought that's what agnostic was...believing that god is possible yet unprovable.

Am I not alowed to think this way?


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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: trendal]
    #1478846 - 04/21/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

so has anyone besides me ever been a member of the "society of evangelical agnostics" ???
~
oh, and pascal's wager is a sucker's bet... (cheap CYA, ante up... ummm, no thanks...)
i'd rather go for the spiritual exercises of the tassawuf, or of dr charles tart, or most buddhist schools...
~
& there seem to be degrees of agnosticism...
like:
i dunno
i dunno & neither do you
cain't nobody know nohow
dunno & don't care
dunno but care a great deal
don'givadamn
& what was the question again
etc...
:wink:
~
~
saw james watson on TV at a bookstore pushing his new DNA book... he was glad he was raised by a non-beliving dad...

~


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (04/21/03 01:30 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1478866 - 04/21/03 01:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well...
If I were to "succumb", I wouldn't really be better off, because I'd be choosing one religion of thousands. My odds really wouldn't be any better.

If you were to change over in the end, you weren't much of an atheist or agnostic to begin with anyways.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1479688 - 04/21/03 07:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

silversoul7: I refuse to base my beliefs on fear of the unknown. Until I see definitive proof that there is such a place as hell and that I will go there if I don't believe, I refuse to take up Pasqual's wager.

You took the words right out of my mouth.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1479711 - 04/21/03 07:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Despite the seeming logical impossibility of God existing, some would raise the point that you should believe anyways, just in case.  This argument, known as Pascal?s Wager, goes as follows: If you believe in God and He really exists, you?ll go to heaven.  If you believe in God and He doesn?t exist, you have the misfortune of being wrong.  If you don?t believe in God and He doesn?t exist, you only get the benefit of being right.  If you don?t believe in God and He does exist, then you?ll go to hell.  So the best bet lies with belief because if you?re wrong it?s no big deal.  Right?

If it were simply a choice between believing or not believing in God, believing would be correct.  But we have to account for the possibility of other gods existing.  If we add up all the multitudes of gods that might send us to heaven or hell, the odds that you believe in the right god are astronomically small.  Furthermore, the possibility exists that there is a god that sends Christians to hell and unbelievers to heaven.  By Pascal's logic you should be an atheist, just in case.

Even the odds against God existing are not the only consideration.  Think about all the forests cut down to produce Bibles instead of houses, all the money spent on huge churches instead of on the poor, and all those who died, killed, or otherwise wasted their lives for Christianity.  All of which may be for nothing.  Incorrect belief does have  some drawbacks when you add up the costs to humanity.


- Wrote that for the Atheist and Agnostic Student Group at university :smile:


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man = monkey + mushroom


Edited by pattern (04/21/03 07:19 PM)


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: pattern]
    #1479913 - 04/21/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i just go with the flow


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Agnostics and atheists will you succumb just before the end? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1479946 - 04/21/03 08:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Fear and enculturation may well indeed bring most of us to pray during our last moments. So what?

I almost died many years ago from eating tainted hashish. My resting heart rate was 250 bpm and I was near fibrillation. I prayed with all my heart (no pun intended!) and found no one to be home; no release from pain or fear nor sense of peace, just pure terror.

*voice from the back* Hey, ya lived didn't ya Swami?

Yes, but that is neither evidence for nor against God, but more for the fact that I was young & healthy.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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