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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno
    #2400845 - 03/04/04 01:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineGorian
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2400877 - 03/04/04 01:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Seems the same thing happened to both of us. As you said i was raised in america and to be christian. I also accepted the faith unquestioningly myself , but when i turned 10 , maybe 12 i questioned the fact i had never been spoken to , or given a sign by "God". I then questioned the religion and thought for myself.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2400912 - 03/04/04 01:53 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I too, was raised christian, and grew to despise it. There are any number of reasons, which would take a short story to explain satisfactorily.. but I can sum it up in a few words.. self-righteousness, hypocrisy, judgement, condescending vindictiveness. Of course there are exceptions to any rule, but that is a very large portion of the "christians" I know and have known. I was forced to go to christian church until I was old enough to refuse, and even then it was an extreme struggle and pain in the ass. It was shoved down my throat, and I saw through many years and several denominations, the complete and utter hypocritical behaviour, thinking, and action that plagues it. But now I don't give a shit, unless someone tries to shove it down my throat again, or tell me I am going to burn in hell because I don't go to church. Believe whatever you want, just don't bring judgements on me goddamnit. The only person you can judge is your self. That's a christian principle somewhere, but it got lost under the editing from the Church?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2400954 - 03/04/04 02:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Hate takes too much energy from me. I find christianity to be more of an annoyance than anything. I can usually stop most christians from spurting their bile in about two sentences... so that's not really that much of a problem.

My problem isn't Christianity-specific, though it does affect most (if not all) christians. My problem is one of people not thinking things through to an end and not going back to clean up the inconsistencies.

I won't even bother with trying to simplify my thoughts on this issue... it's far too detailed. I've gone over these memes so much in my life, that they've compiled themselves into archetypes. These archetypes aren't communicable... they're like compressed files that can only be transmitted in an uncompressed form.

I really wish I could download and upload archetypes to and from my brain in a timely manner. Alas....


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401199 - 03/04/04 03:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think the problem on this forum is that people generalize.  You stereotype.  And you all have accused others of doing the same thing, in different contexts.

I have run into the same problem that all of you have run into with Christians.  I remember a Christian saying to me that if I really and truly believed in God, I wouldn't need counseling.  This was at a point in my life when I felt like killing myself, after a lifetime of sexual, emotional and physical abuse, at the hands of my parents.  I think I have a pretty good right to hate Christians.

But I studied the bible, I read books for and against God and Jesus and other stuff, I listened to radio programs, I talked to people. 

There are some fucked up people in this world.  Some of them post here.  Some of them are Christians.  Some of them are Atheists.  Some of them are in-between.

If a black person robbed you, would you go around saying black people are fucked up?  Nope.  Politically incorrect. 

If a Christian is stupid and says you are going to hell if you don't go to church every Sunday, do you say all Christians are ignorant and stupid?  Yep. 

Some of us Christians actually believe in the teachings of Jesus, and don't judge others.  So when you come on the forum and say all of us Christians are fucked up because of the rantings of a few, or even most, you are stereotyping, and generalizing, and judging.  Coincidentally, as a Christian, I've been accused of doing the same thing on this forum.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Frog]
    #2401236 - 03/04/04 03:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401254 - 03/04/04 04:01 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Here's my reasoning for posting here, as a "Christian":

I want someone to knock my beliefs down or add to them.  Yes, believe it or not, I'm not so stuck on my beliefs as a Christian and on what I have learned so far that I'm about to go around shoving themd down your throat.

I have discovered in the last couple of years that there is more to life than what the bible says.  The bible doesn't cover it "all", in my opinion. 

Damn. Starbucks is closing down.  I guess this means I can't finish this discussion.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401257 - 03/04/04 04:02 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Moreso than that, I think, is the Bible. No other book has caused so much controversy, ever. No other book has been so dramatically edited, misinterpreted, and abused. People talk about it like it's a divine entity. It's a collection of writings, written over 2,000 years ago, for people 2,000 years ago. God didn't write it, humans did. Misinterpretations ocurred. The roman church came along, took the bible, changed it, warped it, twisted it to their needs. They were now the middle man to god, in a position of political power and wealth. Woohoo.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: Shroomism]
    #2401263 - 03/04/04 04:07 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401276 - 03/04/04 04:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

and meditation, before they decided that if people can help themselves, they wouldn't need church, and that just wouldn't do. God isn't within you...it's an external force is what they want you to think. Come pay god money and listen to vague semantics and subjective overinterpretations of a tainted message.


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Offlinekb73
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Shroomism]
    #2401306 - 03/04/04 04:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
The only person you can judge is your self. That's a christian principle somewhere, but it got lost under the editing from the Church?




1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:1-2

37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Luke 6:37-38

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Romans 2:1

10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' " Romans 14:10-11

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5


1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
1 Corinthians 6:1-3

11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:11-12


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WARNING chronicshroom will rip you off! Don't trade with him! I sent him 20 spore syringes and he never sent me anything.


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Invisiblesakura
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401326 - 03/04/04 04:50 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I have no comment on the validity of Buddhism, Islam or faith other than Christianity as a belief system... I have, at best, a superficial understanding of these beliefs.

I am always happy to read a citique by someone who has obviously thought deeply about the issues, but I do get annoyed by anti-christian posts written by folks who obviously know very little about it.


I know a little about the life of Siddhartha Guatama. I understand the basic concepts of Buddhism (The eight-fold Path to Enlightenment), however, I don't feel that my knowledge is anywhere near sufficient to comment on the validity (or lack thereof) of the Buddhist faith...

I have read many critiques of the Christian faith (in this and other forums) written by people who seem to know far less about Christian aplologetics than I do about Buddhism...

Simple predjudice and past issues causes many to be antagonistic towards the Christian faith without even understanding why... If you approach any debate totally convinced of the other side's 'wrongness' (Yes, this applies to both sides of the fence) and study the evidence with only the purpose of 'proving' your existing opinions, you probably will...


Calling anybody's 'Holy Book' a load of crap is bad manners anyway. There are much nicer ways to express disagreement and all of us should respect each other and try them...


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401328 - 03/04/04 04:53 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I went through my whole Christian-hating phase and then grew out of it. Now I try to accept Christianity just as I would any other religion. Of course, if you question the validity of a Christian's beliefs, such as creationism, they'll sometimes think you're being mean. But I do the same to any religion. That's actually part of how I came to leave the Wiccan religion--when I figured out that it wasn't some ancient religion going back thousands of years, but rather some beliefs that someone made up sometime in the early 20th Century(then there was also the part about realizing that magick didn't work). Most Christians are well-meaning people, and it's important to see their humanity, even if some of them have some pretty strange beliefs. Like Sclorch said, hate takes too much energy. I just laugh at some of the religious whackos you see on TV or on the street corner. Then I think about how much influence some of those people have on our domestic and foreign policy, and my laughter turns to tears.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesakura
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #2401345 - 03/04/04 05:12 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nice post silversoul...

It's possible to be a Christian without being a fundamentalist. I have a very liberal view of Creation... (I think Genesis expresses the Purpose of Creation in terms a very simple society could have understood easily).

It's OK to question everything, and it's OK to be a 'heretic' if you examine the issues and your heart and your logic take you outside the 'safe' realms of acceptable dogma (you'll be in good company anyway).

It's not good to 'blindly' believe ANYTHING... Evolutionists should have a good hard look at the maths... Christians should
balance their beliefs against the archaelogical record (Yes, I do know of Creation Scientist's creative attempts to balance this against what they are not prepared to disbelieve... Some of the arguments I have found credible, but not many).


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Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401346 - 03/04/04 05:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't hate Christians, in fact, I don't hate anyone. There are worse things than hating someone IMO, like dispising them, or - better yet - ignoring their existance.

Back on topic. My beef, as it were, with Christianity, is that it's become derailed. It's not about the friendly relationship of mutual support with God anymore, it's back to the basics of wanting miracles or interventions into your own life. The reason? The church, any form of centralised, institutionalised institution.
Jesus never spoke about what you have to do to get into heaven, that was irrelevant to him. The type of relationship with God, and interhuman relationships mattered to him. He strived for two things mainly: the exploitation of God through means of demanding his help (friends don't demand help from each other, they just talk about what's going on and the friend helps out on his/her own accord - in ideal situations of course) and the disappearance of the scapegoat mentality that Jews in his times had, and some of today's world leaders still have (Crusades on Muslim Terrorists, anyone?).

Christianity in its core has nothing to do with heaven and hell, angels, demons, saints, or whatever fairy tales. It's a way of life, and a way of relating to God.
The judgement, self-righteousness, closed-mindedness, etc has been supported for centuries by the church, and is in fact its way of running a profitable business. If you can scare people into believing they'll burn forever if they sin, I'll bet you your absolution tickets will sell better.

My idea: blow up all churches (evacuate them if you must, first), hang the pope as an accesory to millions of deaths (prohibiting condoms in today's world, tssk tssk) and start from bloody scratch.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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OfflineMadHamish
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: silversoul7]
    #2401379 - 03/04/04 05:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said: God isn't within you...it's an external force is what they want you to think




Untrue, not a few will argue that the Man is within ye. If it is a lucritive doctrine imposed on the pious by the clergy, that's a matter of opinion. :wink:

I have to agree with Frog concerning one finds himself generalising quite too fast when it comes to this subject. It is, indeed, sometimes infuriating when ye know for certain that this man in front of ye is being brainwashed by the clergy (or others). That his opinions, mindframes, etc, are based on worn-out ideas of an old fashioned "corporation" that specialises in telling people what to think. But that man is not representative for the lot that is labelled 'Christians'. There is such a diversity between Christians that one cannot possibly label them all with the same tag.

Although the bible is a copy of a copy (to the power of,.. what? infinity :crazy:), and rewritten along the way, it definitely, as I see it, holds some valuable lessons. I believe it can have a tremendous impact on society when one familiarises himself with the moral teachings that are introduced by the book. Don't look at it as a book of truths, but a book that may guide ye in a social context. We can all, I believe, agree that one should nog steal, not lie, etc. and that a society based on love is a more attractive one than a society based on hatred.

If yer disgusted, upset, hateful towards Christians will ye then not participate in rituals, that were implemented through a process that surely involved Christianity, like marriage? Or are ye only rejecting the behaviour of a person and letting other Christian elements to remain in yer life?


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Valar Morghulis


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: MadHamish]
    #2401440 - 03/04/04 06:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MadHamish said:
There is such a diversity between Christians that one cannot possibly label them all with the same tag.




Exactly. The phrase "Christian" is useless and shouldn't be used when it comes to a person's personal beliefs. Calling oneself "Christian" or anything else doesn't represent your beliefs because it is a far too general term to be able to accurately portray those acutal beliefs.

I don't sum up who I am as a person as saying I am an "American". That may be where I was born and where I will be soon again, but other than that, the term serves no purpose. And the term "American" actually serves more use than the term "Christian" because it at least says one specific thing: "I am from America". What does saying "I am a Christian" say?

I've read the Bible, I am a confirmed and baptized Lutheran, I've had Sunday School and have went to church many a times... am I a Christian? I don't call myself a Christian. And towards what you said, there are some good lessons of Christianity, in the message itself, and I hold to them.

However, I also draw in ideas and beliefs from many other sources, a lot of them saying the exact same thing. I still don't consider myself a Christian, and it is a general label that is effectively useless.

All we are are vessels passing along ideas. The idea of copyrighting an idea doesn't make sense to me. I've never felt that I've come acrossed something that was special and unique to me and that should be declared its own path or whatever.. I seriously think categorizing us in that way harms us and it pollutes our Experience and our interactions.

Saying "I am Christian" belies your individuality and who you are and allows others to totally make too many assumptions that taint our ideas of who others are. When it comes to discussing beliefs, why can't we just come right out and say what we believe?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401452 - 03/04/04 06:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You think being raised in America dictates your religion, try being raised in a small Caribbean island. Not believing in God is worst than plotting to assassinate a president.  :lol: It's a miracle there not still burning people at a stake down there. This whole continent was founded by Christianity. I sometimes feel as if we deny our children that knowledge for some reason. Anyway i was raised Christian and when my teenage years came by and i saw how far fetched and contradicting it's teachings was i grew further  and further until i saw anyone who believed in God as inferior. But then i started putting pieces of the puzzle together. Saw what these these teachings were really about. Whats wrong about them and whats good about them.

The problem with Christianity is it's separation from science. When you read the bible you have to understand that these are ancient books, written by early men with early ideas. AT that time, religion WAS the only science. Now when through our science we start to contradict these teachings, people abandon these teachings and ideals. We went beyond our atmosphere and saw there was no "heaven" which led Christians to say "Well, then our lord has to exist in some sort of multi-dimensional existence... yeah thats it!". No one cared to think " Maybe those suns and planets out there, maybe thats where our Gods came from?". And thats my problem with the current establishment of Christianity.

I now belive alot of the scriptures are true and read the Bible with the intent of learning and not with the great deal of skepticism i used to. I say if you wish to learn things on your own and not be told what to think, stay away from orginized religion. And YOU yourself read the scriptures and come up with your own interpretation and ideas. Just because you dont believe a boy-hungry Priest dosn't mean you can't believe in God.


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Offlinekb73
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401473 - 03/04/04 07:11 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Why I hate christians




See how my enemies have increased and how fiercely they hate me! Psalm 25:19

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[1] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[2] and pray for those who persecute you Matthew 5:43-44

All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 10:22

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other Matthew 24:9-10

22Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.23"Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their fathers treated the prophets. Luke 6:22-23

The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. John 7:7

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. John 15:17-19

He who hates me hates my Father as well. John 15:23

Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 1 John 3:13

Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. 1 John 3:15


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: kb73]
    #2401476 - 03/04/04 07:16 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

What'd you do? Search the word "hate" on The Electronic Bible" or something?


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