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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Spokesman]
    #2401493 - 03/04/04 05:29 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Not the mention the fact that he said right away in his post that he really doesn't hate Christians, or the fact that using the Bible to justify the Bible and beliefs from it doesn't really  make sense. :grin:

Oh no, it says if I don't believe in it I go to Hell! I HAVE to believe in it now!  :lol:
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinekb73
enthusiast
Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 369
Loc: Abilene, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2401498 - 03/04/04 05:33 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah...I was bored...

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OfflineMNS
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/04 Happy 20th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 133
Loc: somewhere
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401527 - 03/04/04 06:00 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Hello all, I just wanted to post a response here.....

I am an American as well as a Christian, I also live in the Bible belt ( the south ) Every where you look there is a Church. In this one very very small town a few miles away there is 126 Churches! I go to Church on Sunday, I belive in God, the Devil, Heaven and Hell. I have questioned my religion several times, and I do think that most of America forces this belief on us. I am not sure that my religion is right, there is many many other religion out there that may be right, I do not know. But what I belive is that if you do right by YOUR religion you will be rewarded in the after life. I say that because, whatever religion you may be, that is usually how you grew up, that is what you were thought all your life, that is all you know. Also if you are a good person, and have a good heart, and if you do something horrible you feel sorry that you did it, you will be rewarded in the after life. This is just how I belive, I do not know if you would call it a Christians beliefs, I am not sure what you would call it. It makes sense to me though. REMEMBER : this is IMO, it is not right or wrong.... it just works for me.


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OfflineMNS
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/04 Happy 20th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 133
Loc: somewhere
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401532 - 03/04/04 06:05 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

I wanted to state another opinion from a Christians point of view..........

I do think that the fact that the Chruch tries to scare us in to beliving in God and Jesus is a little screwed up, well a lot screwed up.


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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 164
Loc: jungle of love
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: MNS]
    #2401626 - 03/04/04 07:48 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

i think, in the end, it doesnt matter what you believed in or worshiped.
in the bigger picture it doeant matter whether you belived in napkins, or were a devote buddhist monk, or a "church" christian, or satanist, or new age spiritualist, or what have you.
im not saying that its worthless though. here on earth it does bring people peace, comfort, solace, joy, and even brings people together (yes, im well aware that it can do the opposite of these things as well).
imho, to believe that your faith is the only "right" one, or to bash someone elses, whether you do it in public or in privacy, shows bad form.
also, just b/c one was one raised a certain way doesnt mean he cant educated himself to something else (this goes for anything).
all religions hold great wisdom to be aquired with an open mind.
things are more integrated than they seem, they are better than they seem, and they are more mysterious than they seem...


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.

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OfflineMadHamish
Tourist on Earth

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 24
Loc: A coffee shop in Holland
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Atomisk]
    #2401733 - 03/04/04 08:19 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said: The problem with Christianity is it's separation from science.




How would ye combine the two (back then or nowadays)? That's a tough nut to crack, methinks.


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Valar Morghulis

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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2401748 - 03/04/04 08:23 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Instead of centralizing our discussion on Christians themselves, it is probably more helpful to speak about our experiences with Christians. It's our experiences with Christians which determine our view of them. Most of us, including the Christians here, have had many uncomfortable and sometimes traumatic experiences with Christians. We should not confuse our experiences with the object of those experiences. Our habit to confuse our experiences with the object of our experiences is precisely the reason why Christians come under such heavy fire on this board, or in any public forum. It's this trend which Fiend was intending to address, I believe.

Upon encountering uncomfortable feelings in any situation, it's our habit to believe that those uncomfortable feelings are emanating from the object which appeared immediately prior to those uncomfortable feelings. If our boss at the workplace behaves unreasonably and with contempt, we eventually come to view him as an actual object of aversion, inherently and from his own side. We say "He is a mean person" and go on believing so, sharing our belief with others who nod their heads in sympathy. We receive affirmation from our friends because discord with the boss is a common experience to which many can relate, directly or indirectly.

In the same way, if Christian people have caused us repeated discomfort, our natural human tendancy is to assume Christians to be actual objects of aversion, inherently and from their own side. It is a process of association over which we have very little control, similar to the excitement a domestic cat feels upon detecting the sound of a can opener, and the frantic actions that follow. This isn't the same as overgeneralizing, or being judgemental. It is a mental habit that all of us engage in continuously. Because this is something common to all of us, we should not view it as a crime when we see inviduals reacting strongly against Christians.

In fact, if it is our tendency to criticize individuals who interact poorly with Christians, we are caught in the same rut of a mental habit as those we accuse. We have confused our experience with the object of that experience. We have confused the appearance of undue hostility with the individual conveying the undue hostility, and have assumed that appearance to emanating from it's own side, from the individual. On this basis, we then erroneously conclude that individual to be misguided, and perhaps even develop our own undue hostility! Instead of looking for the source of the uncomfortable appearance, we have stopped our investigation at the object which appeared immediately prior to that appearance. How then can we criticize others while we ourselves are committing the same crimes as they?


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: MadHamish]
    #2401801 - 03/04/04 08:45 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

i believe moses was one of their times greatest natral scientist. the order of creation in genesis is the correct order evolution. he just did his best to make sense of the world/universe/self...just like we do.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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OfflineMadHamish
Tourist on Earth

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 24
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Ped]
    #2401886 - 03/04/04 09:12 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Yet the source of the problem may change, 'corrupt', the individuals, altering their behaviour. See it as a blend, if ye like, between source and object whereupon another person might feel disdain for both (behaviour and problem) yet translating it as disdain for only the object.


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Valar Morghulis

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OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: MadHamish]
    #2402150 - 03/04/04 10:32 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

It is incorrect to develop disdain for an individual because of the behaviour they are exhibiting, especially if the behaviour they are exhibiting has not to do with their essential nature, and entirely to do with the misguided habit of malassociation between object and event. Identifying a person as an object of disdain because they have exhibited malassociation between object and event is by it's nature an identical malassociation.

The malassociation between object and event which has fostered our disdain is identical to the malassociation between object and event which has fostered the behaviour which we find distasteful. We cannot connect the behaviour with the person, because that is committing the same crime we are attempting to criticize.


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2402223 - 03/04/04 10:46 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

i was trying to find a joseph campbell quote where he suggests that christianity is somehow a poison meme (i assume along with the other monotheistic world religions?) but couldn't dig it up, but i did find this:
www.pureliberal.com/ThoughtsOnReligion.html
~
i dunno...
there have indeed been saints and scuondrels to come out the christian matrix, but most folks are just human (check out "mythical kings and iguanas" by dory previn for a peak at one woman's take on being a mix of angel and demon, trapped in flesh...)
~
if "we" have "the whole truth & nothing but the truth" then "they" don't; & if you ain't with us, then you're against us; & if you're against us, you're against god (since "god is on our side"); & if you're against god, then you're with satan; & if you're with satan, you're better off dead (so as not to infect others with your flavor of wrong thinking)..,
and thus: heretic hunts, great bloody schisms, holy crusades, witch burnings, and all other manner of wicked behaviour in the name of righteeousness...
(but remember, christianity inherited its version of god from judaism, as did islam; and each one (of those three) has a history of dedicating apalling atrocities to their all-loving creator...)
~
("human nature, mr. allnut, is what we are put in this world to rise above."
katherine hepburn to humphrey bogart in "the african queen")
~
~
"ahimsa
is the seashell of buddha
ahimsa
is the blood of the lamb"
~
~


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Ped]
    #2402259 - 03/04/04 10:53 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

"Malassociation between object and event....." What the hell does that mean? Is the person the object and his/her behaviour the event?
Since we can have no direct knowledge of any other person's mental state, or even if they have one, and the only means by which we can know them is through their behaviour, how can there be a malassociation (I'm guessing at what THAT means)? You ARE your behaviour to the rest of the world.


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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: ]
    #2402433 - 03/04/04 11:32 AM (19 years, 11 months ago)

WHY CHRISTIANS HATE ME:

I read books other than the bible

I listen to music that isnt necessarily "christian"

I ask questions

I interfere with their brainwashing of small children

I dont support legislation based in their moral bigotry

I point out the logical contradictions in their beliefs

I hold them to their own standards (which they rarely live up to)

I'm willing to consider other points of view besides theirs

I realize that childbirth is a chemical reaction, not a miracle

I dont believe in Hell

I'm not afraid

I dont like being told what to do, or telling others what to do

I dont vote Republican

I understand the politics surrounding the creation of the bible

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OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2402605 - 03/04/04 12:29 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Whoa now! Those are the kind of things you don't want to go around telling everybody.


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"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----

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OfflineAtomisk
all forms areself awareness

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 164
Loc: jungle of love
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2402760 - 03/04/04 01:08 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

arent those a bit of a stereotype? im not a christin, but i know many who dont fit many/any of those descriptions, or comments. I know many annoying christians, but i also know many insightful, intelliegent, inquisitive, loving, and accepting ones, too.
many people around here, myself included, have lowered theselves to christian bashing. we should try not to judge people, period...but if we do, then lets try to do it on a personl basis.


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Atomisk]
    #2402784 - 03/04/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

I'm just talking about personal experience here. These are the reasons that Christians I have dealt with in the past have judged and disliked me. I know that doesnt hold a lot of weight, but considering that MANY others have had the same experiences...

I know that these people are not "real" christians, but they are the majority, at least in my experience.

Other than on this liberal ass bbs, I have yet to meet a christian who could tolerate my prescence for long. Not that i go out of my way to piss them off or anything... just bein myself...

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OfflinePed
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2402786 - 03/04/04 01:14 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

>> Is the person the object and his/her behaviour the event?

Yes.

>> the only means by which we can know them is through their behaviour

Our observations of the behaviourisms of other individuals are subject to our own parameters of perception. Our own standards and our own means of discrimination absolutely pervade every aspect of any object of knowledge, including other persons. Because this is so, any association between the observed behaviour of an individual is merely a reflection of our own mental environment. We register only those traits for which we have notation, and we have notation only for those traits of which we have direct and personal experience. The person and the behaviour cannot be correctly associated.

Even if it were true that we are able to correctly assess others by observing their behaviour, this is still not an appropriate grounds for an aggressive criticism. If it is the first nature of someone to behave in a way that makes us uncomfortable, why should we become upset with them.? It is the first nature of fire to burn. Is it reasonable to become angry with fire when it burns us?


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Ped]
    #2402843 - 03/04/04 01:26 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

Certainly the observation cannot be separated from the observer. Baggage is always there. However, I would not say another's observed behaviour is merely a reflection of our own mental environment. To steal your own analogy, The fire burns regardless of our mood, or even whether we observe it. If we put our hand in it, the flesh will be charred.

I make no claims to correctness of assessment. Just that behaviour is all we have to go by.


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Invisiblemoeshroom
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2403561 - 03/04/04 04:33 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with fiend that a major reason for Christian-bashing is the dominance of Christianity in America. It is a combination of the ex-Christians who resent the faith they feel brainwashed them in their youth (a well-represented group here) and never-Christians who bash the faith simply because it is on top. The latter is just like NY Yankee-bashing and is just a healthy part of human nature.

I like what MNS said about how s/he can have faith even tho s/he disagree with certain parts. MNS's philosophy is more flexible than what is most followers of organized religion believe in. According to MNS, worshipping psychodelic mushrooms can be perfectly acceptable and healthy. It occurs to me that I really don't know much about the organized religions of the world... Are there religions that teach this tolerance as a rule (rather than teaching a general rule that may be interpreted to mean this by a certain sect)? I don't even know whether converting people is a major and inseperable part of Christianity. From experience, it appears that it is and therefore Christians believe their way is the only way. Is this anything more than a generalization?

I think DoctorJ's list is merely a list of stereotypes. I suppose it is just a rhetorical device to emphasize his negative, permanent, and life-long experience with Christians. DoctorJ, I'd like to see you respond to what MNS said. I'd guess you would not consider MNS a "true Christian" because he does not fit into the Christian mental archetype you've formed from a lifelong of judgement by Christians. If you have no problem believing MNS is a real Christian, DoctorJ, than do you believe that MNS hates you?


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
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Re: Why I hate christians [Re: Ped]
    #2403746 - 03/04/04 05:35 PM (19 years, 11 months ago)

"If it is the first nature of someone to behave in a way that makes us uncomfortable, why should we become upset with them.? It is the first nature of fire to burn. Is it reasonable to become angry with fire when it burns us?"

i needed to hear that. thanks ped. sometimes it seems that i just forget important knowledge like that...like it seeps out over time. the old saying is true...

"Learning is like a design in water,
contemplation like a design on the side of the wall,
meditation like a design in stone."


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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