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Depression
    #1044817 -

Depression sucks. I think that sometimes intellectuals treat their depression as an existential crisis, where their depression is somehow special (the dark night of the soul, exc.) while other people are "just depressed". I think that what would be more helpful is to get involved with things, different forms of social activism: if you're young, anti-war movements might be your thing. If you're older, volunteering at a soup kitchen might be your thing. Performance arts: read at a poetry slam, put together a band, write a screen play with your friends and film it, show it on public access... Health - find a buddy to work out with, do your daily yoga stretches, exc... My only point is that there are simple things people do to feel connected with the world and feel enthusiastic about life. So when identifying with Harry Haller while reading Steppenwolf and feeling like a misunderstood genius, remember too that there are healthy, satisfied people making a positive difference in the world. Love and Blessings, CJ


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Depression [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1045076 -

Depression can be quite addictive, and is very fashionable--especially to the "disillusioned" (the most delusional of all). I call it Kurt Cobainism. :wink: (nah, just kidding.)
I have extensive experience with this form of sadomasochism, and I loved every minute of it. Of course, I considered myself nothing like the rest of the self-loathers, as my grief was real. lol
Luckily, before I killed myself -to prove that it was real, perhaps- I snapped out of it. It was pretty hard to deal with that sudden bitch-slap; but when that started getting bad, I realized that I was doing the same thing again. It's all been pretty humorous since then. (Like in that Tragically Hip song, can't remember which one. Laughing: "What were we thinking? We don't have to kill ourselves ... ".)

Well, there was more to it than that--under the circumstances, I think few would deny it was a "legitimate" depression, psychologically, and probably physiologically to an extent. :wink:

Depression is overrated. As Drew Carey said: "Do not pity the whore!" There's a pity whore in everyone. Take the power back. :wink: 


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Edited by Ulysees (11/11/02 10:32 PM)

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Re: Depression [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1045266 -

meh

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Re: Depression [Re: Anonymous]
    #1045712 -

double meh

can't have the sweet w/o the sour


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

fuck a sig



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Re: Depression [Re: Ulysees]
    #1045756 -

I have extensive experience with this form of sadomasochism, and I loved every minute of it. Of course, I considered myself nothing like the rest of the self-loathers, as my grief was real. lol

couldn't have said it better mice-ELF Ulysses! having spent too many beleping years in the stagnant pond of self pity and wallowing, it's funny to look back and realize that i really did enjoy it(albeit it in a very perverse manner)

      It just starts to feel like "home" after a while, it's a rut, but a comfortable one....especially when you can surround yourself with those that feel the same way about themselves and therefore(imo) the world around them......looking back on all those (seemingly at the time) atrophied  years, all i can really do is  :grin: and be Gr8ful those darkest of days are behind me.....

i'm not trying to say that everyday is all sweetness and light in my world, i have things going on in my personal life just like (imo) most other people on this board, the difference is that now i handle difficult times a lot more easily then i once did.... without having to face unpleasant life situations there wouldn't be any(imo) opportunity to grow......without adversity, we would develop  no strength(imo)

i'm glad i had a chance to work through those bleak days unaided by pills prescribed by the psychiatric community(prozac, ritalin etc), although i MORE than made up for it in otherways :wink: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Depression [Re: Ulysees]
    #1046365 -

absolutely.....depression is addictive......I have worked with many patients that just get into a "habit" of being down and usually wanting someone else to rescue them.

I feel for the ones that have horrible fits of depression and want to feel better but can't....I've been there........

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Re: Depression [Re: Tannis]
    #1046440 -

Its a lame cycle

You feel like shit about your life. and everything feels empty and dead around you. Then you get sparks of inspiration and hope and are able to pull yourself up out of the gloom and into the light. You see all the wonderful opportunities surrounding you, and all the happiness you can take a hold of....

Then suddenly, somehow, you don't feel like yourself. You are happy.. or were a second ago? Everything seemed like it was fitting in place.. But this isn't you... it isn't right.. and you quietly retreat back to the comfortable darkness.

repeat every day.

im on paxil.

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Re: Depression [Re: Grav]
    #1046463 -

Without a shadow there is no light.


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:

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Re: Depression [Re: Adamist]
    #1046516 -

of course.
i dont see depression as a state of mind that should be annihilated... i think some of the most beautiful parts of a person lie in there somewhere... as it is part of them.
but it should be worked out, especially when reality is knocking at the door

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Re: Depression [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1046555 -

It's very weird. In my life, i've always found it easier to connect with depressive things. Depressive songs for instance, I always feel depressive or meloncolic type songs to be more "deep". When it come to the happy songs, they are enjoyable but dont have a that deep connection with me; They seem more like "shallow pleasure" or 2-dimensional.

I cannot speak for others, but in my experience happiness is somthing that takes work. Happiness is not something that just happens. it is not the result of good fortune or "just having a good life". It is not something that money can buy or power command. It does not depend on external happenings; you most often can't dictate and control external evets to fit you. Happiness is a condition that must be prepared for, cultivated , and somtimes DEFENDED against privately by each individual.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram

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Re: Depression [Re: David_Scape]
    #1046941 -

I dont think i could have ever been this happy without going through those dark places and eventually facing them

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Re: Depression [Re: David_Scape]
    #1046992 -

I cannot speak for others, but in my experience happiness is somthing that takes work. Happiness is not something that just happens. it is not the result of good fortune or "just having a good life". It is not something that money can buy or power command. It does not depend on external happenings; you most often can't dictate and control external evets to fit you. Happiness is a condition that must be prepared for, cultivated , and somtimes DEFENDED against privately by each individual.

i couldn't have said it better :smile: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Depression [Re: Adamist]
    #1047000 -

Without a shadow there is no light.

That's very true(imo) Adamist, one can not truly appreciate the brightness of the present moment without contrasting it to the dark past  :laugh: 


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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Re: Depression [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1048471 -

Woe...    :frown: :frown: :frown:


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Edited by Shroomism (11/13/02 03:48 AM)

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Re: Depression [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1048615 -

can you truly be enjoying Now if you are referencing the past?


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Depression [Re: GazzBut]
    #1048619 -

can you truly be enjoying Now if you are referencing the past?


Yes :grin: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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depression can be real though... [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1050467 -

sometimes though, depressions's not just a bad mood or cycle....sometimes one is a genuine screw case. sometimes a person's head is just really MESSED up because of not THINGS, but a chemical imbalance. for THOSE people....it is just as debilitating as a broken leg.

the thing is, everybody thinks they are the ones that have the worst case scenario depression, but true chemical depression is pretty rare. most people are just throwing a pity party. :grin: 


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: depression can be real though... *DELETED* [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #1051653 -

Post deleted by tipz

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Re: Depression [Re: Grav]
    #1051718 -

You said it! You don't feel like yourself. Its like someone comes in and starts to live your life for you....or run it into the ground.

It seems though that we like our lows because they make our highs seem even higher by contrast. Many are the mood swings of prophets, priests, and kings..........

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Re: Depression / light bulb changing joke [Re: Tannis]
    #1051749 -

Q -
how many depressives does it take to change a light bulb?
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
A -
"leave the bulb burned out, it's better to cry in the dark"
~
~
~
(sorry, just couldn't resist any more...)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Right on the head! [Re: tipz]
    #1052793 -

Quote:
Depression comes with intelligence.. it's a curse. 



Damn straight mate! :grin:
seriouslly, every time i get depressed, it's because i start thinking....and then start assuming the worst and over analyzing everything.
i have trained myself at those times to say, "don't think!" and i just shut off my upper brain kinda, leaving just the basic cognitive functions i need to survive. then i just amble around until i feel better. to me, that's a hell of a lot better than feeling bad AND having the damn loop/cycle thinking about how horrible and pointless you and everything is.
it was hard to train myself not the think though....and to think some people don't even have to TRY not to think. :wink: 


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Peace and Love to all!

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anxiety causes depression too *DELETED* [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #1053449 -

Post deleted by st0ney

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1054879 -

i don't think it's genes man.

how did you "accidentally" take 50 again?



--------------------
Peace and Love to all!

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1054890 -

I know how you feel dude..
Try paxil or somethin..

Try not to fight the anxiety. Tell yourself, Shit! im fuckin freakin out!

From my experience anxiety comes from an overwhelming feeling that your different from everyone and they're all subliminally accusing you for it... or somethin like that. And your tryin to convince yourself that's not the case when your alone, and then when you go in public it's like a horrible paradigm shift... I think that constant change fucks with you...

Work on it, dude, give it time. You will overcome it.

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Re: anxiety causes depression too *DELETED* [Re: Grav]
    #1054967 -

Post deleted by st0ney

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1055133 -

Social anxiety sucks, I just recently aquired it, I used to be very open and carefare in social situations. But as I got older, I became more introverted and realized I don't have much in common with people. Try this, it helps me. When you are in a social situation don't lament on what people are thinking about you, because, do you think about other people in the same judging way? Probably not, also, conforming in a social situation makes you want to leave and be yourself again. DON'T conform. Say whatever is on your mind, no matter how crazy or weird it is. I do it all the time, and people just think i'm a weird/crazy person. Which is cool with me, because i am, and it makes it easy to relax socially.

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Re: anxiety causes depression too *DELETED* [Re: ]
    #1055286 -

Post deleted by st0ney

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1055823 -

True dat. :smile:

Sounds like I am alot like alot of you people.  I used to be very social.. but I'm on a 4 year long run of being anti social.  My anxiety is getting horrible and  I have a hard time being around people.  I always act awkward and fuck shit up when I feel people are watching me.. which is most of the time.  Maybe I can get some paxil or something.. although my parents have a hard time believing that there son needs medication.

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Re: anxiety causes depression too *DELETED* [Re: ShroomNewb]
    #1055908 -

Post deleted by st0ney

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1057777 -

I'm sorry to hear about your family's predicament. Anxiety is one of those 'existential malaises,' or in layman's terms, one type of response to just being-in-life. Other existential malaises include boredom, guilt, and shame. I happen to experience anxiety more than any of these or other dificulties, but it is not a genetic problem. If anything, it is a 'constitutional' problem. Certain kinds of body-types are more prone to anxiety than others. Usually it is the thin or lanky 'ectomorphic' type that suffers this the most, when the cause is contitutional. There are, of course, other causes.

I am a psychotherapist and a Diplomate in Clinical Hypnotherapy. I would use hypnotherapy to treat a person with a dysfunctional degree of social phobia, if that is what is going on. I recommend looking for a clinical hypnotherapist who does this kind of work, and I wonder why your physician didn't recommend it! Check out www.natboard.com to locate a hypnotherapist in your area. Phone and ask questions and about fees.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1058071 -

valium & many of the other "benzos" are not just muscle relaxants...
the PDR generally classifies them as "anxiolytics" (= dissolvers of anxiety) or "minor tranquilizers"
and almost anything that "takes the edge off" (or is even percieved as doing so) can allow one to cope with the stresses of social situations...
the problem with many of those type drugs (most of them so-called "downers" of one sort or another is that they tend to be addictive, and cause long-lasting changes in brain chemistry, and often tend to slow down mental functions, mess with your memory & personality, among other things... probably OK for short term or occasional use, but as a long term solution, they tend to leave something to be desired...
well, maybe more later, i dunno...
be well...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1058148 -

you know, i have no problem with anxiety at all. i used to, but i got sick of it, and just stopped careing, what happens happens, i figure.
but i do have a major problem with boredom, and guilt. i get bored easily, so i figure i'll go do something good with my time...but then i look at the task i choose and think, "i might fail...i fact, i probably will, why try?" so i never get anything done....then i feel extremely guilty to the point of depression. would you use hypnotherapy for this too?


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Peace and Love to all!

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: whiterastahippie]
    #1058227 -

I would use hypnotherapy because these concerns boil down to what used to be called 'neuroses.' It is healthy to feel guilt if one has done something that one knows is wrong. If one feels a general, free-floating or global sense of guilt, then it's neurotic guilt - most humorously illustrated by Woody Allen in much of his work. Feeling like a total 'sinner,' is one type of guilt trip to go on. Been there [during seminary] done that. "Go, and sin no more," said Jesus. OK. Simple solution. Doesn't require constant agonizing about one's human imperfections, which is neurotic guilt, not real guilt, a mental problem, not a moral problem.

Boredom is an emotional state that results when one refuses to pay attention to, or allow oneself to be stimulated by, a given situation. I do not experience boredom. When there is seemingly nothing, people may sleep to tune out. Lots of adolescent drug abuse comes from boredom. If there is really nothing, 'cause you're in solitary confinement, for example, meditate. That's the given - use it. Meditation is boring, so use boredom as 'a springboard to Eternity,' which is always right Here and Now. I explain boredom to 6th graders, so any adult should get it. It's a form of rebelliousness to the immediacy of existence - the 'thrownness,' the hand one is dealt.

The problem with Existential thought is that Death always looms in the background serving to remind us of the temporal limit of our existence. So this underlies anxiety, and our guilt for not doing what we believe we ought to in the time allotted us. There is the distinct absence of Ontological or Essential thought. Without the possibility of transcendence, of the Transcendental, another existential malaise appears - despair - "the sickness unto death." Religion, while much maligned at this forum, shows several ways to get out of the quagmire of existence by serving others (karma yoga), or by devotion to God (bhakti yoga) or by a lifestyle of quiet contemplation (jnana yoga), or a combination thereof. The Inner [Essential] Man must triumph over the outer [existential] man, which always flounders and drowns in the 'ocean of existence.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: anxiety causes depression too *DELETED* [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1058243 -

Post deleted by st0ney

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1058390 -

Really surprising how well your last post addressed what I've spent hours conversing about with friends lately. I look forward to showing them - thank you! Blessings, CJ


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1058449 -

A) You're not your friend.
B) You're not capable of determining just how suicidal your friend is.
C) The psychologist had an ethical 'duty to warn' your friend's parents, even if he
was 18, since he was living in his parent's house.
D) You're not experiencing clinical depression if you think you like it.
E) Most people, including myself, benefit from mental health counseling. If you
can't make eye contact with a helping professional, and be truthful - that's
a problem you need to work on.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1058552 -

Once Upon a Time, Crosby, Stills and Nash sang, "...to sing the blues, you've got to refuse to...carr-r-r-r-y on-n-n..." And, to "carry on" means, among other possibilities, to pick yourself up, stop wallowing in self-pity, and do what you're supposed to do. If one doesn't know what that is, then ask the appropriate people for assistance. Sheesh!

I've seen that bumper sticker that reads something like, 'God lets those who complain the most, live the longest,' but what's the point of living a long, fear-filled miserable life? It just delays the inevitable. Another neurotic tendency is to create constant petty miseries for oneself in the [unconscious] belief that those minor miseries will prevent something Really bad from happening. This is a vestige of 'magical thinking' from childhood. It is the opposite to that common American childhood experience of the whining child who is told by his father "stop that whining or I'll give you something to really cry about!" 'I'll whine all the time, and God will take pity on me and not give me cancer/TB/emphysema/Lou Gehrig's disease/ etc., etc.'

I worked as an addictions counselor with all kinds of addicts. Some of these [usually] adolescent whiners were, like, "Shit! I broke a shoelace! I can't take this shit - I'm gonna go shoot some dope!" This was our stereotypical joke about junkies and their completely infantile lack of ego-resilience and need for immediate gratification ('I want what I want when I want it').

There is a middle school kid where I work, who comes to school every day and has tried out for the basketball team, even though he gets winded easily. His body is more than 50% run through with cancer; he takes chemotherapy every day; and he knows he's terminally ill. He has a wish from the 'Make a Wish Foundation' coming up - sitting on the bench with Iverson. He doesn't want anyone to know his condition, and he doesn't want any pity. He doesn't need to be neurotic because he has Real suffering going on. He's a mensch and a teacher for me when I bitch and moan about back pains and other kinds of benign bullshit. His presence alone makes me grow up, and shut up, and feel ashamed of my own whining and bellyaching. [And this post was not directed at you personally CJ].


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1060581 -

Just pick up and go! Everything will be alright, how dare you feel bad for yourself; look that boy has cancer! Now don't you feel stupid! HUH!? Yea, stupid, you sit crying over your pain while that poor pitiful soul is dealing with cancer... You should be ashamed of yourself, what right do you have to feel bad? NO one should feel bad, if you do you should fix it now, you lazy bastard.

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Re: anxiety causes depression too *DELETED* [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1060876 -

Post deleted by st0ney

Reason for deletion: .


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1060914 -

Do you want us to feel sorry for you?

No, seriously. What does talking about your depression do? Does it make you feel better posting how bad you feel? I'm not really trying to sound like an ass, I would like a real answer to theze questions.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: st0ney]
    #1060970 -

You're correct that the therapist should have been upfront with your friend from the beginning. I always tell kids that the game rules include 'duty to warn' in the event of suicidal/ homicidal ideation, or if I'm told of physical/sexual abuse. I'm responsible, and I'm not going to be responsible for not intervening, nor am I gonna lose my job, my licenses, get sued or get jail time for not acting ethically and legally.

You're obviously angry, and that prevents you from healthy functioning, which includes caring about others. Back to my first response - hypnotherapy. It works well in many cases of social phobia with attending panic attacks. I gave you the web address for locating practitioners in your area. If you don't want help with this debilitating disorder, then don't get help. In fact, while you're in this frame of mind, consider drilling your own teeth and filling your own cavities; operating on yourself; buying non-prescription eyeglasses off the rack; and even cutting your own hair. Receiving help from people with skills you don't possess makes you feel "bad?" First deal with your presenting problem - anxiety disorder - and then perhaps someone can help you with that self-esteem issue. At your age you best take a little free advice when someone qualified takes the time to offer it to you.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1069673 -

The CSNY post struck me with parental overtones, or perhaps that's because my mother is a psychotherapist on a psychiatric ward at a hospital and shares similar views. Good grief, I agree with the things you're saying, but in turn, I'd offer these Grateful Dead lyrics:

Reach out your hand if your cup be empty
If your cup is full may it be again
Let it be known there is a fountain
That was not made by the hands of men

Shared the full moon last night amongst many friends in a beautiful place in the country. Barefooted, wild-hair, sarong, singing, howling like wolves, dancing, swigging wine, spitting, jumping, running, falling down laughing, climbing trees, playing guitar, making up songs, a couple microdots of LSD (the first in a YEAR & 1/2!), gathering firewood, planning a protest on mining in Dysart Woods... and on and on and on.

How about the Beatles 'A Day in the Life' - I'd love to tuuuuuurnn yooooouu onnnnnn!

Not in opposition to your comments, just that... where i see padma, i'd like to compliment with siddhi: soft, compassionate, flower-power, Goddess.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #1075162 -

C.J. -
Let me suggest a visit to the nearest dive shop. There, you can find a nylon dive belt, and 3 or 4 lead weights to slide onto that belt.

Parental overtones? I'm 49 years old, a Ph.D. psychotherapist with 20 years of experience in mental health and addictions counseling, who is talking to a teenager. Tack 27 years onto your lifespan - 20 of which is involved in work like your mother's or mine - and see if you can remain 22 years old permanently - or want to! I'm youthful where it matters to be youthful, but I'm not a 'puer aeternus.' Neither am I an old 'senex,' but I have acquired a modicum of wisdom which I am attempting to impart, with difficulty, via this medium. When mental demons attack, it does no good to pelt them with flowers. Unconditional positive regard is foundational, but Knowledge is imperative in order for a positive outcome. Psychotherapist is a psychopomp, after the god Hermes-Mercury. A soul-guide and shamen with all the necessary weapons at one's disposal.

Childhood's End happened long ago for me. I live more in a post-Robert Bly mindset. Maturity in the guise of mysteriously enduring youthful appearance. Body building and Yoga shorn of narcissistic cloak - practical health and beauty of a Whitmanesque flavor. Sword of Discriminating Wisdom shears through the attachments to former selves. 30 years of Acid-fueled intensity distilled down in preparation of the inevitable Great Mystery to come. No longer a milk-fed vegan meditator, but a partaker of meat and red wine - the Absolute, a White Light Singularity in my Heart - He Art - sitting, standing, moving, awake or asleep - He Art. Revelry in the outer, long past, I kneel before the Inner Holy of Holies, and attempt to impart the Truth I see, so that it makes others whole. Capiche?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: anxiety causes depression too [Re: ]
    #1075337 -

"Just pick up and go! Everything will be alright, how dare you feel bad for yourself; look that boy has cancer! Now don't you feel stupid! HUH!? Yea, stupid, you sit crying over your pain while that poor pitiful soul is dealing with cancer... You should be ashamed of yourself, what right do you have to feel bad? NO one should feel bad, if you do you should fix it now, you lazy bastard."

I wish it was that easy to change someone who is depressed, but I think it's part of puberty. They don't really have any control, it just kind of happens. Then, in most cases, they get older and grow out of it.

I think you have be both happy and disillusioned. I see a lot of things I don't like about the world. I think most of them will stay the same, never really go away. I'm still happy. I have fun, I've got people I love, and people who love me around. Life is pretty damn good.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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