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OfflineMurex
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1207279 - 01/10/03 03:50 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I see.

God really doesn't have to be the ultimate good in my book. There really isn't such thing imo.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1207396 - 01/10/03 04:50 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Hey Swami have you seen those Tibetan monks who can survive in freezing conditions without any clothes on? Or the ones who can control their heartbeat at will? Wouldn't that be considered a "spiritual technique" that really works?


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Adamist]
    #1207446 - 01/10/03 05:13 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Have you seen those Tibetan monks who can survive in freezing conditions without any clothes on? Or the ones who can control their heartbeat at will? Wouldn't that be considered a "spiritual technique" that really works?




Personally, I would consider those to be mental and physical techniques, not spiritual ones.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207503 - 01/10/03 05:33 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I guess the lines kind of blur there, since spirit can't even be scientifically defined. 

But the question is, does that mean it does not exist?  :wink:

And the answer is:
No one knows for sure!

Therefore, argueing about it one way or the other is conjecture. 


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Adamist]
    #1207593 - 01/10/03 06:04 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

I guess the lines kind of blur there, since spirit can't even be scientifically defined. 

But the question is, does that mean it does not exist?  :wink:

And the answer is:
No one knows for sure!

Therefore, argueing about it one way or the other is conjecture.   




I agree with you completely brother.  I guess what I and everyone else are trying to do is see if we CAN come up with a proof one way or another about the spirit/God.  Wouldn't it be cool if someone on these boards did come up with a proof?  The Shroomery would achieve instant international fame, and maybe people everywhere would support the legalization of mushrooms!!!  :cool: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207599 - 01/10/03 06:07 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Man, I am still stuck on whether or not objective proof is even possible...  :tongue: 


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Adamist]
    #1207626 - 01/10/03 06:17 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Man, I am still stuck on whether or not objective proof is even possible...  :tongue: 




I don't think anyone knows, but it's certainly worth a shot!  :wink: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207636 - 01/10/03 06:20 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I mean, I've finally figured out that there IS an objective truth... It exists regardless of whether or not we prove it...

But it's like asking the mouse in the maze to proove what the maze is made out of... See what I'm saying? Is it even possible to know an objective truth when you exist within it?


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OfflineRemy
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1207815 - 01/10/03 07:47 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

As for the topic- I don't believe that religion and the crime rate have any corralation whatsoever.

Exactly. Jesus taught peace and love. America is a predominantly Christian nation; therefore should reflect some more measureable degree of Christlikeness than other nations (it doesn't).




Christ's teachings have been distorted by money, power and politics so much, that it is quite hard to understand the essence of them (or whats left of it). I know few christians who have sat down and read the bible. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are so full of obfuscation, and excess thought, that is quite hard to understand, or capture the essence of them.

Quote:

India is the nation most associated with meditation (or perhaps Tibet) so one would expect if meditation was the answer, India's condition would be superior, it isn't.




Meditation is not a religion. Your stereotyping of the India/Indian's proves very litte, like any stereotyping, and most of your "points" in this thread.

Quote:

And so forth...




What about Japan? Primarily Buddhist (Zen) and Shintoist, almost everyone is either buddhist or both. Almost no murder rate, crime, or drug use. Overcrowding in major cities, but little poverty, general happiness and well-being of the population, long life expectancy, the list goes on. Buddhism focuses on balance, and its teachings are very essential, and without all the loads of bullshit piled on (most buddhist texts can be finished in one sitting). The most highly motivated, and evolved nation, is coincidentally, a Zen Buddhist country. A simple coincidence? I think not.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Remy]
    #1207838 - 01/10/03 08:01 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

What about Japan? Primarily Buddhist (Zen) and Shintoist, almost everyone is either buddhist or both. Almost no murder rate, crime, or drug use. Overcrowding in major cities, but little poverty, general happiness and well-being of the population, long life expectancy, the list goes on. Buddhism focuses on balance, and its teachings are very essential, and without all the loads of bullshit piled on (most buddhist texts can be finished in one sitting). The most highly motivated, and evolved nation, is coincidentally, a Zen Buddhist country. A simple coincidence? I think not.



A little over half a century ago, the same nation was brutallizing people of other nationalities. One example: they experimented with biological weapons by dropping contaminated chocolates among starving Chinese children and then after the disease was in full effect, they walked in wearing protective gear and dissected the victims while they were still alive.

They were fairly civilized with each other, it took a major ass-kicking before they exhibited civility towards other nations and peoples.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineRemy
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Evolving]
    #1207955 - 01/10/03 08:45 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

little over half a century ago, the same nation was brutallizing people of other nationalities. One example: they experimented with biological weapons by dropping contaminated chocolates among starving Chinese children and then after the disease was in full effect, they walked in wearing protective gear and dissected the victims while they were still alive.

They were fairly civilized with each other, it took a major ass-kicking before they exhibited civility towards other nations and peoples.




I took all this into consideration when I made my post. First of all, I am talking about the now. And second of all, I am talking in the now. Overall, I would say Japan as a nation has consistently existed at a more evolved level than the rest of the world. Sure, they've gone through some politcal phases, but as far as a people goes, they have always lived to a higher standard.


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InvisibleOkEyToKeY
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 88
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... *DELETED* [Re: Remy]
    #1208076 - 01/10/03 09:55 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Post deleted by OkEyToKeY

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by OkEyToKeY (01/10/03 09:56 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Remy]
    #1208102 - 01/10/03 10:12 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Meditation is not a religion.
And? Is not the title of this thread "... or Spiritual Techniques"? Does one of us have a reading comprehension problem?

Your stereotyping of the India/Indian's proves very litte, like any stereotyping, and most of your "points" in this thread.
Meditation is not associated with India? *raises eyebrows* Lets consider the meditation teachers or models in the US from the last century:

Yogananda - Indian
Babaji - Indian
Rajneesh - Indian
Chimnoy - Indian
Meher Baba - Indian
Swami Satchindananda - Indian
Swami Maharishi - Indian
BK Iyengar - Indian
Swami Muktananda - Indian
Krishnamurti - Indian
etc.

Geez what was I thinking? And your lucid point is?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Remy]
    #1208113 - 01/10/03 10:18 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

What about Japan?

What about them? They brutally tortured and killed many tens of thousands of American, Chinese, Philipino, Malayasian and other prisoners of war and were on a par with the Nazis in many respects. I guess that is a clear sign of moral maturity and spiritual awakening to you. Please don't tell me that that was 50 years ago and doesn't count as it was after thousands of years of meditation.

They got their ass kicked hard and settled down. Maybe that is what caused their awakening instead of sitting in za-zen.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Evolving]
    #1208119 - 01/10/03 10:21 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

And one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Hap-hap-happy.


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InvisibleAcidic_SlothM
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: ]
    #1208120 - 01/10/03 10:22 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Whee!! *BANG!*


--------------------
-- Accept my heart warming gift of TREE SCRATCHIES!!! I absolve thee!! --

JaP: 30,000 lines of gay, cock, and fag can't be wrong
Ped: only in #shroomery is "smuggle opium in her ass" followed by "i don't want shitty opium" which is followed by " *** Joins: PENISSQUAD"
--
JaP: What would this place be without random sluts?
JaP: Nothing, I tell you.


:heart: :todcasil: :heart:


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Anonymous

Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1208293 - 01/11/03 01:26 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

As for the topic- I don't believe that religion and the crime rate have any corralation whatsoever.

Exactly. Jesus taught peace and love. America is a predominantly Christian nation; therefore should reflect some more measureable degree of Christlikeness than other nations (it doesn't).

India is the nation most associated with meditation (or perhaps Tibet) so one would expect if meditation was the answer, India's condition would be superior, it isn't.

And so forth...




You were given sound evidence and you dismissed it. Since that is the case I can only assume:

1.) You are arguing for argument's sake.
2.) You cannot understand the evidence.
3.) You have a vested interest that precludes you from seeing a different view.

Please continue as you are and you will get what you have got.

Cheerio


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: OkEyToKeY]
    #1208432 - 01/11/03 05:38 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Welcome OkEyToKeY, and great post! :smile: 


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: ]
    #1208439 - 01/11/03 05:46 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

You were given sound evidence and you dismissed it. Since that is the case I can only assume:

1.) You are arguing for argument's sake.
2.) You cannot understand the evidence.
3.) You have a vested interest that precludes you from seeing a different view.


or

4.) You gave evidence that wasn't sound. Funny how you overlook that major possibility.

Please continue as you are and you will get what you have got.
Ah, nothing like a catchy New Age quote.

How about, "Apply ineffectual techniques and you will remain where you are."

Most everyone here has short-term memory loss and forgets that I was once one of the "believers". I was a church-going alter boy with stars in his eyes, then did yoga, meditation, creative visualization and vegetarianism for 12 years as well as many psychedelic adventures. Yes, there were some physical health benefits, but no contact with a higher power nor prayers answered.

So in your mind 12 years of dedication and practice was not enough. Maybe another decade and I would have got it.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRemy
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1208466 - 01/11/03 06:24 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

What about them? They brutally tortured and killed many tens of thousands of American, Chinese, Philipino, Malayasian and other prisoners of war and were on a par with the Nazis in many respects. I guess that is a clear sign of moral maturity and spiritual awakening to you. Please don't tell me that that was 50 years ago and doesn't count as it was after thousands of years of meditation




A small page in their history, and one that was clearly not a cause of the people as a whole, just some sick bloodthirsty generals who worked their way into power. I highly doubt an average citizen of Japan would have done the same, or have even condoned those killings. Was Hitler's will that of all Germans?

And as for the suicide rate, which would you rather have in your country a high murder rate or a high suicide rate? Most of these flaws, and eras of error, are due to the influence of western culture. The suicide rate in Japan is almost exclusive to business men losing large sums of money. Suicide is also a generally accepted form of death in their country, and is not looked down upon like it is here(it dates back to pre-feudal Japan, as a part of Samurai tradition).


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