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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1204794 - 01/09/03 05:13 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

I believe many of these interpretations of one having a divine experience stem from ego death, when you feel that your dying on shrooms and then accept it, many people consider this proof of a GOD for they felt so enlightened and amazed at this the only answer they come up with is a divine experience.

But then again, we are not extremely spiritually advanced, Mushrooms and Psychedelics allow you to peer within the subconscious and discover knowledge, wisdom, and "enlightenment".
We do not know and we cannot argue about what happens after death.
I try and understand it from a semi-logical point of view, where science and spirituality are at one.


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Listen, or your tongue will keep you deaf. :wink:
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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: trippinlizard]
    #1204828 - 01/09/03 05:19 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

things don't just "become" something has to make them

If there were a god, don't you think he'd be thinking the same thing about his own existance???  :tongue: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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Offlinetrippinlizard
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1204988 - 01/09/03 06:05 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

i always thought of god as eternal (my interpertion as "beyond time").  without time nothing can become, it simply is, but yer point is still a mindbender. :smile:
it will probably help to explain my concept of god as spirit, in that everything, reality as we know it, is ethereal and exists only in spirit's mind, spirit being reality itself. yeah, if that makes any sense in words :wink:



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fine. do what you want, but i'm drinking the water.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1205198 - 01/09/03 06:56 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

I believe 'God' is more of a force of nature, not a supereme being. God was created along with everything else.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Murex]
    #1205204 - 01/09/03 06:59 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

I think God IS the force of nature...  :smile: 


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Swami]
    #1205738 - 01/10/03 12:33 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Describing the "truth" is not as important as living the "truth", yet those who claim to have seen apparently remain unchanged.


I agree, and I think those who do live it are simply aware of and comfortable with themselves in this lifetime and don't need to cling to any sort of shallow description. They haven't necessarily "talked with god", but just have taken an honest look at the world around them. And happiness follows.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1205742 - 01/10/03 12:53 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

At the time when I started tripping, whenever I would play music, I had to know that I was connecting with some mystical force of the universe. Like I had to have that magic present or I felt somewhat lost.
I really had to believe I was talking with spirits and whatnot and that it was REAL.

Now I play music because it makes me feel good to create, and I think it inspires others to do something creative that makes them feel good. I don't need any more of a 'connection' than that.

I think that's sort of a way of looking at truth. Maybe it's alot more simple than we assume


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Murex]
    #1205765 - 01/10/03 01:34 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

I believe 'God' is more of a force of nature, not a supereme being. God was created along with everything else.



I like that, kind of like the conscience behind nature, you would think every planet with life has this natural consciousness, which in turn influences the environment to evolve.



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Listen, or your tongue will keep you deaf. :wink:
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Invisiblemr crisper
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Murex]
    #1205845 - 01/10/03 03:19 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

God was created along with everything else.




nice one murex - bingo!
the mind is a wonderful thing.
i i i i i'm just a stepping stone.


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Grav]
    #1205909 - 01/10/03 04:34 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

whenever I would play music, I had to know that I was connecting with some mystical force of the universe. Like I had to have that magic present or I felt somewhat lost.
I really had to believe I was talking with spirits and whatnot and that it was REAL.

I think that's sort of a way of looking at truth. Maybe it's alot more simple than we assume




Music is strange indeed. We know why the body enjoys food and sex (survival of the species), but why does it also enjoy music??? I'm not convinced that the answer is because it connects us with "the spirits", because I'm not so sure any actual "communication" is going on during music. If you believe you are talking with the spirits, what's the message???


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Grav]
    #1206335 - 01/10/03 08:45 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

...
I think that's sort of a way of looking at truth. Maybe it's alot more simple than we assume


And the door cracks open a little more...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1206525 - 01/10/03 10:08 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Truth is simple... Sometimes so simple, I think, that it cannot be expressed in words. :wink: Thus you get infinite variations, infinite metaphors of the same Thing, which could be described as "Life". There, I described it in one word, the concept that everyone is argueing over! We Are Alive.

Care to argue?  :smirk: 


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: ]
    #1206720 - 01/10/03 11:29 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Excellent parable.  Another word document in my files :grin:


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Adamist]
    #1206738 - 01/10/03 11:35 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Truth is simple... Sometimes so simple, I think, that it cannot be expressed in words. :wink: Thus you get infinite variations, infinite metaphors of the same Thing, which could be described as "Life". There, I described it in one word, the concept that everyone is argueing over! We Are Alive.

Care to argue?  :smirk:   




Oh, I'll argue!  :grin:

"So simple it cannot be expressed in words"???  You've got it backwards - the simpler things are, the easier they are to express in words.  Not a valid excuse for a lack of an argument.

"Thus you get infinite variations, infinite metaphors of the same Thing".  I don't think people are seeing the same thing.  I know one person who swears he can talk to God during meditation, and God has told him Christianity is bullshit.  People are seeing  different things, not a variation of the same thing.

"'Life'.  There, I described it one word, the concept that everyone is arguing over!  We Are Alive."  Did I miss something???  I thought this thread was about faith, not life.  I'll agree with you - we are alive.  But faith appears to be a crock.   


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1206795 - 01/10/03 11:48 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

I don't think people are seeing the same thing. I know one person who swears he can talk to God during meditation, and God has told him Christianity is bullshit. People are seeing different things, not a variation of the same thing.



It's not about seeing, it's about feeling. Faith is a feeling. Spirit can only be felt, not seen. Things that can be seen are illusory, that is- what you see all depends on where you are looking from.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1206820 - 01/10/03 11:57 AM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Did I miss something??? I thought this thread was about faith, not life. I'll agree with you - we are alive. But faith appears to be a crock.



Faith is one of man's ways to try and explain Life. Life, in my opinion, cannot be absolutely explained while inside of it. Yes, faith could be looked at as a crock, but so could every system that we have devised to try to explain the unexplainable. They are all valid in their own relative reality, but absolutely, none of them are. (Or all of them are, depending on how you look at it.)


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1206832 - 01/10/03 12:01 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Also, I'll throw this in:

Faith is used where logic will not work. Some people think that the entire universe is logical, but I don't think so. :wink:

Faith is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Some things can not be logically proven and do not leave material evidence, like such things as soul/spirit/god/love....which are actually all the same thing I think. 


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: Adamist]
    #1206860 - 01/10/03 12:12 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Faith is one of man's ways to try and explain Life. Life, in my opinion, cannot be absolutely explained while inside of it. Yes, faith could be looked at as a crock, but so could  every system that we have devised to try to explain the unexplainable. They are all valid in their own relative reality, but absolutely, none of them are. (Or all of them are, depending on how you look at it.) 




I think I agree with everything you just said.  Especially "depending on how you look at it."  Since there are different ways to look at it (e.g., they're all valid, or none of them are valid), how can you know which is the correct way???  :wink: 


--------------------
:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1207158 - 01/10/03 02:44 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Proof that faith is a crock? [Re: ]
    #1207176 - 01/10/03 02:54 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

I haven't heard but one or two people say "better safe than sorry" in here... which would be the equivalent of Pascal's wager.

However, in daily life, I hear it EVERYWHERE.
It really is sad that people call that faith.


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