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native american indians
    #505541 -

are any shroomerites native american ? if so, what tribe ?

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #506428 -

nah... but one of my buddies is...


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Down to Gehenna or up to the Throne... He walks the fastest who walks alone...

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #506520 -

Does it count that my great-grandmotther was Iriquois?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: native american indians [Re: Swami]
    #506849 -

Im half cherokee, 1/4 choctaw, 1/4 blackfoot. My great great grandpa was full blood Irish, thats the only IMPURITY as I call it.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #507127 -

I think i have a native american that lives in the woods by my house.

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #508590 -

I guestimate that im about 35% Cree Indian. Have enough
indian blood in me to get full indian status.. I used to be
ashamed to be an Indian.. but I realize that it's a blessing
and that the Indian way of life was actually very highly
evolved..

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Re: native american indians [Re: StrangeDays]
    #508594 -

Too bad the diseases that wiped out most of your population didn't finish the job. Oh well, I guess it just up to good ol'Darwin to finish off the rest of you ugly people.


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Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #508635 -

I was in a Hopi tribe in a previous lifetime, if that counts..

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Re: native american indians [Re: ]
    #508655 -

If anyone knows what the indian population was in about 1500 and what it is now I'de be interested in it for sake of comparison. Thanks.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: native american indians *DELETED* [Re: drunkgoat]
    #508721 -

Post deleted by psy_trek

Reason for deletion: Delete


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Re: native american indians [Re: psy_trek]
    #508919 -

IF the chinese hadn't invented gun powder, it would have been invented sooner or later.


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Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: native american indians [Re: drunkgoat]
    #508995 -

RAIL_GUN - I do know that the cherokee tribe at its hight was the largest indiginous tribe of people in the world.
DRUNKGOAT - we should be wiped out? I wish you were in person, I would kick the living hell out of you, then you could tell everyone you got your ass kicked by a red-man. You fucking pric. I wish with all my heart that I meet you some day.
If it wasn't for the damned white people with there guns, we would have wiped them out. Our culture was alot like the eastern cultures, less woried about technology, more with family and spirituality. Actually regardless of if they had guns or not, the white people would not have ever conquered us if we hadnt showed them kindness in the first place. If we would have just killed them at first sight, they would have never coloniezed this land. Maybe eventually they would have, but it would have been severly slowed down, because they would have had no word that we were even here at first, and then they would be scared of the demon natives. God damnit I hate white people.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509014 -

Dude, don't say that. I can comprehend where you're coming from, but that attitude isn't good for anybody. Negative thoughts reak negative effects on all. LOVE ALL people.

Drunkgoat, you fuck.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509175 -

Ya Druid, I hear where you're coming from loud and clear, but I don't hate "white people", just the white people who did it. (and the white people who continue these types of things.)
One of the reasons that the native people are so much better than the white man is because of the fact that they showed them respect and kindness and didn't try to wipe them out. If the natives would have tried and failed, they wouldn't get the respect that they do... Well, from some people anyhow... This is small consolation, I know. I look at it like a Jesus Christ situation. He got shafted, but the way he handled it made all the difference... sort of. Is this making any sense?


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Re: native american indians [Re: Ulysees]
    #509284 -

Yeah i got your gist


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ulysees]
    #509376 -

Ulysees, the 'native Americans' tried many times to wipe out the white man. They would ambush conastoga wagons that were heading west. In fact some ancestors of mine heading west were victims of apache raids.

You're seriously misinformed about the indians. They were just as savage if not more savage than any invading whites. Hostile indian raids had to be fought off on a daily basis. Indians would rape, scalp, and then loot their victims. They especially liked to steal guns, horses (which were not native to north America), and alcohol(which they called fire water).

Take care


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509419 -

No Rail_Gun, your the one who is misinformed. The east coast Indians just smiled and took a long shaft in the ass. Yes you are right some of the plains and souteastern Indians did fight back some, but by the time the whites reached that are they were already ruted in so to speak. And they only did that because they knew the white people, by that time, could not be trusted to even keep a simple promise. So yes the apache and the "yellow hand"(in english the souix) did fight back as best they could, and cuddos to them. If I had one wish, it would be to back in time and provide the souix with oozies.
Ulysees, I do get what your saying, and I do take pride in the fact that we were more evloved and just wanted to eist in peace, hell we even offered to share our ancestral land with the newcomers. But Im just saying, I wouldnt have been so welcoming, my ancestors were the cheifs of the "kalanu" tribe or the war cheifs basically, I would have tried my damndest to kill them all, and suffered the consequences later. Im too hotheaded for peace, especially when all that was happening. My people were the ones on the trail of tears, Ill be damned if they would take my people and drive them like cattle.
Goddmnit I hate talking about shit like this, I get so upset.



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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509424 -

Yep, indians aren't are goody goody as they want to be made out to be. They should feel priviledged to have ANY land left. They are a conquered people. Most civilizations destroy their enemies in war, not give them land and rights. Whites conquering the indians isn't as bad as any other civilization that took over others. Just because it's more recent makes it more wrong? STFU.


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crinkle crinkle

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509426 -

Rail_Gun - we were more savage, you ignorant honkey. What the hell did you people do to us? We were only defending ourselfs, you didnt rape, you didnt steal, you think it wasnt by design that they introduced us to alcohol. We stole guns to make the playing feild even. And by the way horses were originally native to the continent, they just went extinct. So no YOU are the misinformed one.
And NO Indians EVER called it fire water, the damned ignorant whites called it that because it made us so violant. Havent you noticed when Indians get drunk thy're very rpone to violance, I can tell you they are by personal experience.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509529 -

I am part cherokee(sp?). =)


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Evolution of Time.

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509544 -

>Indians would rape, scalp and then loot their victims...

Which, if nothing else, atleast proves they were fast learners...

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Re: native american indians [Re: Pynchon]
    #509548 -

HELL YEAH Pynchon!!!!!


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509578 -

"you think it wasn't by design that they introduced us to alcohol."

Hmm..so lets analyze this, you are saying that because Alcohol was made available to Indians, that it was somehow part of a great scheme by the white man to destroy the Indians right? you are a joker, your feeble bow and arrows are no match for white engineered guns and armor. Just because your pathetic Indian race did not have the cranial capacity to develop and create new technologies, by law of Darwin, they deserved to die.

"we stole guns to make the playing field even"

War is war. Strong conquer weak. Is it the white mans fault that the total Indian population spawned from about 10 Indians that came to north America? Please do not say anything about white inbreeding because all Indians are FAR more inbred than any white person (excluding persons of the state of Alabama). Your rampant inbreeding caused a stigma in the Indian gene pool, common traits such as: laziness, ugliness, and even low IQ were subsequently passed through many generations of inbred Indians. Your genes came from a small portion of the total human gene pool, and if you compare the human gene pool to an actual swimming pool, the Indian gene pool would be the shallow end where little kids piss a lot. Indians couldn't compete, and we once again go back to Darwin, since your race offered nothing to support the advancement of humanity, you deserved to be killed off and crammed into reserves. You should be happy that the white man even let you keep any of his proudly conquered land. You ingrate full bastard.

"And by the way horses were originally native to the continent, they just went extinct."

Well who's fault is it that the horses in North America were brought to extinction? Certainly not the white mans. What's all this bullshit you Indians talk about being close with nature and shit, you killed off all the horses, yeah that's really respecting nature.

Indians are good for nothing in today's society, actually I shouldn't say that, it sounds too negative, Indians are good for: causing trouble, as lab rats to test experimental drugs on, as lab rats to test new bio and chemical weapons on, as scientific Guinea pigs for radiation experiments. Hmm I can't think of anything else Indians are good for.

In short, it would have been better if the white mans diseases killed all you stinky, ugly, very un-intelligent, small cranial capacity, lazy, unproductive, wastes of bio matter.


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Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Edited by drunkgoat (01/03/02 11:13 PM)

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509594 -

damn, some people are showin their true colors. it's pretty sad. i hope that all the millions of dollars that the reservation casinos bring in will someday buy back the vast expanse of prime sacred land that was swindled from the indian nations. they respect the earth. they belong to the earth. we think the earth belongs to us. something just aint right.

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #509609 -

i swear to god, i want to kill all the fucking indians left. They have the audacity to take over the land we (white man) rightfully conquerd from them and expect us to give it back to them because they claim that they are "ancient indian buriel grounds" bullshit. if anything dig up the bones, stick em in garbage bags and throw them in an incinerator then hand the indians the bill for that operation then open a wal-mart on top off the place.


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Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: native american indians [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #509612 -

COZMKSTRCHLD, the indians never owned any land before the white men gave them land. The indian societies never had any private land ownership. They had a communistic communal view of land ownership. They thought the land belonged to everyone. In reality their land ownership philosophy caused no one to own land. This is why the whites never stole the 'indians land'. Because they never owned the land it wasnen't stolen from them. The whites just sort of appropriated the land that no one had previously claimed for themselves.

Take care


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509619 -

the indians were just asking to be fucked up the ass, and the white man kindly obliged.


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Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: native american indians [Re: drunkgoat]
    #509651 -

If there is any justice, I will meet you two someday. And then may whatever god you choose to believe in be paying attention that day, you had better hope to blue hell he is anyway.

Interesting side note, they estimate by the year 2009, most major Indian sovereign nations will be self sufficient. And unless you guys decide to rape and pillage like your ancestors, we shall see who outlast who.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509693 -

They didn't need land "ownership". There was -- and still is -- plenty for everyone. The concept of ownership has little meaning if no one has ever tried to steal anything from you, as was the case for the first 40,000 or so years of American indian existence. To try and reduce this to a property dispute is an expert attempt at missing the point, particularly after dragging out the old (and irrelevant) "indians weren't no angels" rubbish.

Incidentally, you might want to read some of drunkgoats posts in this thread...because, like it or not, you two appear to be on the same side...

Sleep well.

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Re: native american indians [Re: Pynchon]
    #509704 -

I along with any rational human being cannot see any resemblence(sp?), and I take a heavy offence to that statement.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: Pynchon]
    #509714 -

I'de like to point out that I in no way condone Drunkgoats cruel and hateful statements. I don't agree with his view of indians as anything less than human. I'm not on his 'side' or anyone elses 'side'.

I think the ponts I made are valid. After all I learned it in high school history class. It's recorded history, not my opinion. And indians weren't angels, they were uncivilized stone age people. We made better use of the land then they would have anyways. We have roads and houses. They had dirt paths and mud huts. I think the indians in America are much better off now then they would otherwise be if the white man haden't been around north america. It's called quality of life...


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509729 -

ArchDruid --

I'm not sure which statement of mine you take heavy offence to. Sorry anyway, I guess...

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509735 -

Rail_Gun --

I probably shouldn't have judged your points by the company they keep. Your argument is still flawed tho', because by your reasoning if a hypothetical society existed in which homicide was unknown (along with laws prohibiting it), and somebody from "outside" came in and killed someone, no crime would have been committed. This line of reasoning becomes even more ridiculous if the afore-mentioned "outsider" happens to come from somewhere with very clear laws against murder. IMHO, occupation of land for tens of thousands of years constitutes ownership.

I'd like to get into that "quality of life" bit too, but I'm about to head out...no prizes for guessing what it is I want to say, tho'...;)

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Re: native american indians [Re: Pynchon]
    #509753 -

Rail_Gun - your right and Im sorry for my statments, you were stating opinion not bigotism. Although I still very much disagree with your statements. But hey thats the point in conversation though huh.
but seriously "uncivilized", by whos standards, most concider the Indian nations MORE civilized by most standards. No murder, no crimes, no greed, no hording of resources, no pilaging of the earth, no wealth, actually they lack alot of the properties that we see as "evil" in todays society.
"better use of the land", again by whos standards. It was fine for us, and it was not your land to make better use out of. We did no permenant damage to the earth, we didnt plunder resources for delusions of wealth and power, we didnt cut down trees to "clear out" for our places of dwelling, the earth was the same by and large from the time we came here from asia to the time when you people came except for natural phenomina(sp?).
"better off""quality of life", jesus who are you people to judge. Your god damn missionaries spreading deseases were the most catastrophic thing to happen to indengenous people. Were better off, I hope you ask forgiveness for that statement before you meet your maker, I truely do. As for the quality of life, thats a joke. The society that replaced my peoples uses more than 80% of the worlds resources and contributes almost nill. We supported ourselfs, fed our people, and took care of the land. Are we doing the same today? 90% of the american population holds 1% of the wealth. In my culture there were no rich and poor, what we had we shared for the good of all. Most americans are below the poverty level, children are starving, people are killing other people, people are commiting ever sinful act imagineable, these things did not exist in this land before the whites came. Better off, better quality of life? For who, definetly not me, nor most of the other people in this country except for about the top 5%, and Im not one of them, neither are most of my people.
Pynchon - I took offence to you comparing me to that bigot asshole DrunkGoat. What the hell else would have upset me?


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509781 -

I didn't read everything that has been said here, I trailed off when it all fell into a bitching match. I just wanted to clarify some things...

"Indians" is a very broad statement. What you don't realize is that there were many different tribes (well, yes you probably all realize that) and each tribe had different practices. I'm not an expert on this anymore, I knew a lot more at one time, and a friend of mine knows pretty much all you can learn about it without a University prof at your disposal. (He kept me informed.)
While some tribes did have very savage practices, such as torturing and wreaking general havoc, that was definately not the case with all tribes. The majority was in fact your regular Thanksgiving story... No tribe attempted genocide without provocation, and I'm sure that few of them attempted it with plenty of provocation. On the other hand, the white man attempted genocide after great hospitality. You want to talk about savage? It was perfectly acceptable for a white man to skin two indians. One to make a pair of leggings for himself, and the other to make a pair for his wife, or commander. Look at some of the massacres, Wounded Knee being the only one that I can name right now. When the natives started a new practice, a new dance and ceremony, the white man freaked out and began slaughtering every native he came across. Do you know what this dance was? It was a dance of peace and acceptance, even of the white man who had already taken their homes, put them on the early reserves, and begun annhialating the buffalo. The natives had to be given food from the white man just to live, because there was no way they could feed themselves anymore. When the natives were supplied with rotten meat one day, some of them protested. This resulted in massacre. Children weren't good enough to be shot, they were stomped to death by boot heels to save ammo. This is fact. This is your heritage. Look it up, it's well documented in National Geographic... at least in Canada. (Where we learned some of this in Elementary school, and found the rest in the library. In fact I have some good books on just these issues, one of them made by National Geographic.)
Some of these events may have run together, and I apologize for that, but I'm not an encycolpedia... this is the best I can remember to put down in words.

Some of you obviously got your educations from John Wayne movies... cause you certainly haven't been educated on the American Indians.


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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509802 -

Arch Druid, it's true that our civilization isn't really better than the indians stone age civilazation. Better is a truely subjective word. And subjective things are by their nature somewhat intangible so I won't argue the point.

If the indians had no murders or crime, I'de agree that they were a more socially advanced civilazation. But I find it a bit of a stretch to say there was no murder or crime because human nature is to some extent criminal and murderous. I'm aware of assinations in the 'cherokee nation' which occured for political reasons. I'm sure there was more crime than that though, every civilization has had crime and has had to deal with it. Afterall the first recorded laws are ancient, the code of Hammarabbi... And I'm sure that there were laws which predate that by a long shot.

Now I'de say that I think I would prefer to live in todays society than in the pre-columbian American society. I think my quality of life is greater now than it would have been then. Now I have indoor plumbing, electricity, a fine education including literacy, technologically advanced health care and medicine, a low infant mortality rate, a computer I'm writing this on, comfortable and adaquate clothing, a nice home, rubber soled shoes, and countless other things which I take for granted and you probably do as well. Certainly you may argue that if I was a pre-columbian native american I would be just as content as I am now and you may be right. But I surely wouldn't be as comfortable and likely neither would you.

BTW, you mentioned that indians lacked greed. Indians had their own forms of currency pre-dating white demons stepping foot on north america. Wampum were beads used as currency... The pre-columbian american indian tribes also had frequent wars with one another. Pre-columbian north america was by no means a utopian society. But neither is ours. Nor is any other.

Our current civilazation is more technologically advanced and we have our problems. Indian societys had theirs as well. I think I'de prefer my modern problems to the indians problem of surviving the elements and nature on a daily basis.

Take care


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509892 -

Don't give in to hate like those other idiots if not you will become like them.
I feel for your people and admiere there culture and philosopy.
White people where like them at one point but there lost there way, they separated them self from nature they lost tuch with God.
But now the earth is dying for our miss use of her and all will pay the price.
I belive that there is an earth conciousness growing from all races now and a longing to go back to the earth.
But I fell it may be to late, especialy the way things are going.


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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #509953 -

Am far too wrecked to be sensible, but:

ArchDruid: at no point did I compare you to drunkgoat. The post that I suspect you are whining about was directed at Rail_Gun. A possible tip-off might have been that the post was addressed to him/her.

Edited by Pynchon (01/04/02 10:36 AM)

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #509985 -

>I think I'd prefer my problems to the indians problems of surviving the elements and nature on a daily basis...

The average working day for a hunter-gatherer has been established as being a little over five hours per day (don't ask me for references until tomorrow...late tomorrow). How long do you work just to earn money you can exchange for food?

...erm, you don't occupy land for 40,000 years if your just "surviving"...

To say that you would prefer to live in "todays society" (what's that, exactly?) has little bearing on whether or not ameri-indians feel the same way. Whoever it was in this thread that used the phrase "showing your true colours"...I would put it to you that, in your case, you're displaying a paler shade of white, perhaps? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that American Indians are over-represented in higher infant mortality rates, higher rates of alcoholism, ditto rates of imprisonment (ie, higher rates of getting caught), obesity, preventable illness blah blah blah commie pinko this, commie pinko that...

BTW, why shouldn't the indigenous population take advantage of the "white man's" "advances" -- your examples being "plumbing, electricity, a fine educatation including literacy (it's good to be fluent in a language you would never have encountered were it not for war, I guess? Just out of curiosity, do you speak German?) technologically advanced health care and medicine (what's the going rate for that shit, anyway?), a low infant mortality rate (ho ho ho), a computer I'm writing this on (implying technology should be denied to the poor? Pontificate on...), comfortable and adequate clothing, a nice home (almost by definition, no society has ever lacked these last two), rubber-soled shoes (whoopeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)"....what were the countless other things?

Could probably offer a better argument during sobriety...let me know if I need one...............................................................

Edited by Pynchon (01/04/02 10:19 AM)

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Re: native american indians [Re: Pynchon]
    #510096 -

the greedy fucks that wiped out the native american are the same ones who are killing this earth. period.


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any colour you like....

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Re: native american indians [Re: rhiggatwat]
    #510553 -

my grandma says im 1/16...i have no clue about who when and where though


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.

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Re: native american indians [Re: tak]
    #510921 -

ohh so thats why you look so ugly.


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Give a man a match and he will be warm for an hour. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: native american indians [Re: drunkgoat]
    #510997 -

Yes, the inner identication is becoming apparent it seems........
I am S-to-O, but apparently.....
to each his own, or however that goes.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.

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Re: native american indians [Re: KeepAskingTime]
    #513438 -

I like where this conversation is going now that drunkgoat has not been able to make a statement as of late. Pynchoen and Rail_Gun, I apologise to both of you I was just understandable becoming defencive.
As for things I take for granted in todays society, well your right and wrong. Yes there are things which are alright "endulgenses(sp?)" but I would do happily without them. About the only thing I woud miss is an ample supply of paper and writing utencils. I live much today like I would have then, except I live in a house (sparcely furnished) and have a toilet. other than that not much has changed. And once I finish my education, I plan onliving like they did. With some paper and pencils ofcoarce, hey I cant give it ALL up.
I can understand all you opinions(except drunk goats), I dont hate white people, I dont hate anyone. I just become defencive. I figure, shit happens, its in the past, nothing we can do about it now. I know of the ancient europian cultures as well, they were beautiful and earth based just as much as the native americans, I believe there spirit was poisened some how. Many if not the good majority are begining to go back to the old ways, and it makes me glad, but I too fear it is too late. But any step in the right direction, whether to late or not should be a welcome one, perhaps the cultures of today can ask forgiveness from our mother before we destroy eachother and cleanse an old stain of blood. I certainly hope so anyway. PLUR
I forgive you drunkgoat.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #513471 -

The story of the Nativa Americans is so very very similar to our Australian Aboriginal culture. I've been studying Australian Aboriginality all year, and have come to understand that although Aboriginies were certainly defensive (understandably) about people taking over their land and after their initial shock about seeing white people for the first time (believing they were originally ghosts or spirits), they tried many times to stop the flow of Europeans.

This however was often countered by ten fold retaliation from the whites, and due to things such as disease and genocide, blacks lost their land (and thus their religion, because their religion was based on the land) and as a consequence lost interest in life.
Many became fringe dwellers on the newly formed white society and became dependant on alcohol and tobacco and other novel drugs that Europeans brought.

Certainly the notion of the "noble savage" was correct to some extent, but not to the extreme that it was a perfect society. There was still problems, but it was handled in a unique way that relied on the hierachy in the societal system. White people destroyed this hierachy, which destroyed the method of control over dicipline of the young. Some tribes had disturbing practices, such as documented records of forced anal sex as a rite of passage, children forced to eat their brothers or sisters (I am not joking) and other things. This did not happen often, but still did happen.

Anyway, I am not too sure if this is exactly the same as the Native American situation, but there are aspects from both cultures that can be taken and used together. Alot of Aboriginies have adopted Christianity, placing their ontology in a transcendental state where it cannot be destroyed like their land was.

Later.

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Re: native american indians [Re: wintertime]
    #513479 -

I love the aboriginal culture, Im studying it in my free time right now. I think it was worse for them for a few reasons. 1- There was never a whole lot of them to begin with, because of harsh conditions. 2-Australia was a prison colony, atleast the whites that came here were more often than not somewhat christian in practice.
I plan on going on a walk about some day, I think it would be great. Did you know aboriginal people only had to spend an hour a day looking for enough food for the whole day. Thats so fucking cool, the rest of the day to paint, play music or just lounge. Much respect to them.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."

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Re: native american indians [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #513581 -

pynchon- paler shade of white??? i'm just a deadhead who cares. i'm proud of my family, but ashamed of many characteristics of the white race. railgun-- casino profits are going to create for the indian nations. money talks and they're getting filthy rich . what will be done? i have no idea.but, it will be good. drunkgoat--- IF you even partake of the shroom, you haven't learned a damn thing. you hate too much to be a fngsumngs.

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Re: native american indians [Re: ArchDruid]
    #513590 -

my grampa grew up on the pine ridge rez in south dakota. they called him 'little moon face.' sometimes he says he is 1/16th indian but i have never known if he was just joking or not.

i'm a peaceful person and mankind's history of war and cruelty carried out by any and all races in any and all parts of the earth breaks my heart. it sure would be nice if we could look back on a history of white man coming to america and forging peaceful relations with indians. but humans are weak, ignorant, greedy, and stupid. the vast majority of european immigrants were simply poor opressed folks looking for a better place to live. they didn't come over here to kill indians, they came over here to get away from poverty and political injustice in europe. but the greedy and the power-hungry are seldom stopped by the innocent and peaceful until it is far too late--a lamentable fact of human existance.

so a few dirty white bastards mounted a campaign against the indians and a few indians were just as cruel and inhumane to a lot of innocent white settlers. i don't think the european's technological superiority or the indian's spiritual superiority really have a damn thing to do with who was right and who was wrong. there were surely evil and ignorance, as well as good and peaceful intentions, on both sides. history played itself out and here we are, in modern america, 200 years later, and nothing we can say or do can change what happened.

i have often pondered these issues, as i still live in south dakota, and there is a large indian population here. many problems still plague our relations with the indians, and i can't begin to guess how we will solve them. of one thing i am certain: we will never solve our problems debating which race or culture is responsible, or right, or wrong, or good or evil. we are one race--we are the human race--and we share this earth, we share these problems, and we share one future.

the only choice we have to make now is, will we continue to foster hate and ignorance, or will we work together for a better future for ourselves and our children?


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Re: native american indians [Re: drunkgoat]
    #513795 -

Hi everybody, my name is Fred and have been lurking here for awhile and this is my first and possibly last post. Drunkgoat, I would specifically like to address some of the inherent misconceptions in your obviously hateful and racist version of social darwinism (which has nothing to do with Darwin's ideas I am afraid), but instead I find myself so attracted to your rough masculine attitude that I cannot concentrate enough to come up with a reasoned response.
I find myself imagining nibbling on your ear and rubbing both your bald heads at the same time since I am ambidextrous ; )
We could dress up in pseudo military costumes and play a CD with war noises on while we run around my penthouse trying to engage each other in "combat" if you know what I mean. Oh, its probably never going to happen and my fantasy will not come true. Just like many of your fanasies will not either (thank God or whoever). We have so much in common. Why don't you take out all that aggression on me? I have a whip and some chains if you like that kind of thing.
By the way I am white and so you won't find me ugly!!!!!!

Fred

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Re: native american indians [Re: capslock]
    #513934 -

That better not be your last post, Frederick...you have class.

COZMKSTRCHLD -- I was addressing Rail_Gun with the "paler shade of white" remark -- yeah, it was stupid. I was rotten drunk when I wrote it, tho'...I am also a paleface, for what it's worth.

I should probably say something about the indigenous population here in NZ, the Maori. They put up a hell of a fight when the pakeha arrived, and it's quite possible some of my earliest ancestors were served up as a late-afternoon snack. Their "aggression" did little to stave off the inevitable, however...tho' it should be noted that *some* of the atrocities visited upon the Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals were conspicuous by their absence here. The Maori even managed to get themselves a Treaty granting them soveriegnty...a fact which has been ignored -- sorry, "debated" -- into obscurity, much to the fury of the Maori. Despite what is often said, there is still a great deal of racial tension in NZ...arguably because, whereas in, say, Australia, where the country is big enough for the Aboriginals to live in their own settlements (ie, seperately), in NZ, the Maori genuinely believe they have a shot at returning "New Zealand" to "Aoteroa" (it would be very interesting to see what they would do with the whites should this ever occur). Many are very politically aware/active (in stark contrast to the political apathy of most NZ'ers), fiercely proud and, at times, totally unreasonable (making claims under the Treaty for control of the electromagnetic spectrum, for example).

No race is perfect. But where wrong has clearly been done (and in all likelihood, continues to be done), restitution is only fair.

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