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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1201660 - 01/08/03 05:45 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

If Jesus or Buddha or Mohammed (substitute your favorite God-Messenger) each taught thousands and of that group, two people truly got "it", and those people taught many more and of those, two people got "it", it would only take about 31 generations (2^31) or 775 years (31*25) to enlighten the world.

This is illogical thinking.

You forgot to factor in many things to this equation- one of the biggest would be war.

This parable by some guy I think has relevance to your way of thinking, Swami.-

"It is as if a man was posioned by an arrow and his friends called in a surgeon, but the man would say: I will not have this arrow pulled out until I know who the man is, whether he is a noble, a prince, a citizen, or a servant: or whether he is tall, short, or of medium height. Verily, such a man would die, here the surgeon could addequately learn all this after he has helped the man."


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



Edited by Murex (01/08/03 05:54 PM)


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1201678 - 01/08/03 05:50 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

we are no further along now than any time in the past.




thats because we are not going anywhere, we are perfect now.
religions and beliefs are basically mental theme parks.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: mr crisper]
    #1201792 - 01/08/03 06:22 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

mr crisper writes:

thats because we are not going anywhere, we are perfect now.

That's the best answer in the entire thread. As a matter of fact, it's downright brilliant. Maybe rather than use the word "perfect", it would be more accurate to substitute "as good as we are going to get", but the basic principle mr crisper expressed is the one that best fits the available evidence, and contradicts nothing we can observe.

In actual fact, when it comes to religion and philosophy, there really is "nothing new under the sun". All the basic options have been around long enough that in the parts of the world where free flow of ideas is the norm, people have made their choices. Chances are that when the rest of the world's populace is eventually exposed to these "new" ideas, roughly the same proportion of them will opt for "Plan A", "Plan B", "Plan D3", as the rest of us already have.

Kudos to mr crisper for cutting through the crap!

pinky


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Offlineundecided
newbie
Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 31
Last seen: 19 years, 14 days
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: mr crisper]
    #1201810 - 01/08/03 06:32 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Simply, Jesus and Buddha were way-showers. They shown humanity the door. But it is OUR choice to walk through or not.

So if we choose not to walk through, then all of the Jesus's and Buddhas in the world cant change that.

Also, like I said, the "two" people who get it would probably end up murdered if they are too social in expressing and demonstrating the "secret truths". An example is the Cathars. The Inquisition went into full swing because they got big enough for the Roman Church to notice them.

Now if the Cathars consisted of "two" practitioners who basically meditated and understood "the secret truths" and maybe expressed them only to their students, then maybe the Inquisition wouldnt have happened.

So therefore, the world is probably a better place because "the secret truths" are kept safely in monastaries.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1201901 - 01/08/03 07:12 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked...

Then we would have no need for arguing semantics


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OfflineFatNug
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Registered: 11/21/01
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: mr crisper]
    #1201932 - 01/08/03 07:25 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

we are perfect now. 




You're kidding right?    :crazy: 


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================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1201944 - 01/08/03 07:29 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Christianity and Islam teach how to be saved from Hell. Buddhism teaches how to find inner peace. It's about changing yourself, not necessarily changing the world.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: silversoul7]
    #1201954 - 01/08/03 07:31 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Yep.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1202372 - 01/08/03 11:47 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked...

What do you mean by "worked"? I don't think religion can guarantee success. I think if religion can manage to show you the way, then it has "worked".... the rest is up to you.

The reason the whole world isn't enlightened isn't because religion didn't work. It worked just fine. The bible says that Christians are to be the "salt of the Earth". Doesn't this imply that the "enlightened" will always be in the minority? Religion never promised enlightenment to the masses. The masses cling to religion because they don't believe in themselves and they desperately need something to believe in.




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Anonymous

Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1202586 - 01/09/03 02:21 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Your premise contains a subtle yet deadly and incorrect presupposition. I'll leave it to the members to figure out what it was.

In other words, your postulate was framed wrong.


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Anonymous

Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Adamist]
    #1202601 - 01/09/03 02:25 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

The taboo against loving your fellow human is very great in a world where a compassionate person is looked upon with suspicion and disgust.




Very impressive Adamist. Your statement was entered in the Quotable Quotes from Shroomerites thread found here.


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: undecided]
    #1203475 - 01/09/03 08:50 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Evolving's signature applies here, I think:
"You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think."


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Adamist]
    #1203676 - 01/09/03 10:06 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

The World

before prayer, scripture and Master's teachings: war, murder, selfishness

after prayer, scripture and Master's teachings: war, murder, selfishness

BIG difference!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineNSKiller
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Registered: 11/19/02
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: ]
    #1203722 - 01/09/03 10:25 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Poster: Mr_Mushrooms
Subject: Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... 


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The taboo against loving your fellow human is very great in a world where a compassionate person is looked upon with suspicion and disgust.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Very impressive Adamist. Your statement was entered in the Quotable Quotes from Shroomerites thread found here. 





I was going to write something on his statement before I read this post, now I'll just say I totally agree.... I was gonna quote that, because how so very true it is.....  :frown:  and on the note of religion, I myself don't consider myself a very religious person, yet i sit around all the time and think about "religion" 


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"I think its time to hit the sack, then i'll probably just go to bed" ~ NSKiller


Edited by NSKiller (01/09/03 11:47 AM)


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InvisiblethePatient
Criminal Bodhisattva
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Registered: 07/07/02
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Swami]
    #1203961 - 01/09/03 12:28 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

I ain't buying your arguments. After ALL the teachers and ALL the scriptures and ALL the mind-manifesting drug trips and ALL the meditation and the 100 billion man-hours spent in church, synagogue, and temple; we are no further along now than any time in the past.




No further along? It might be my foolishness, or my naievity, or my compassion for my fellow man...but for you to say that we are no further along than at any time in the past is just nonsense. The step we've taken might be a small one, but its one step closer than before.

Quote:

Am I the only one who thinks it just might be a waste of time? 



Is time that is spent for a good cause really wasted? I suppose the answer to your question is the answer to most question: It's all on your perspective, baby :wink: 


--------------------
T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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Invisiblemr crisper
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: FatNug]
    #1204122 - 01/09/03 01:32 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Quote:

we are perfect now. 




You're kidding right?    :crazy: 




no.
everything is exactly as it should be, everything happens when the time is right.
 


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Registered: 11/24/01
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Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: thePatient]
    #1204137 - 01/09/03 01:38 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Compassion for your fellow man? WTF? Are you in some kind of cult or something?  :shocked: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: Adamist]
    #1204233 - 01/09/03 02:29 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Swami also forgot to factor in himself..lmao.
Goes along with every other skeptic who builds their life around disbelief.


Edited by dustin (01/09/03 02:30 PM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: thePatient]
    #1204306 - 01/09/03 03:05 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

...but for you to say that we are no further along than at any time in the past is just nonsense.
Thank you for declaring my viewpoint as nonsense.

The step we've taken might be a small one, but its one step closer than before.
3000 years ago: nonstop war in the Middle East.

Today: nonstop war in the Middle East.

Please point out my nonsense and what small step that we have taken and what we are closer to. Clarify man!



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Religion and/or Spiritual Techniques Really Worked... [Re: thePatient]
    #1204309 - 01/09/03 03:07 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Is time that is spent for a good cause really wasted?

Your question is a trick one. The raw answer is "No." Yet, there is no evidence that praying and worship is a good cause.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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