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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: vandago]
    #3430787 - 12/01/04 02:10 AM (17 years, 11 days ago)

Well, even though Christians are hypocrites, many of them are well-meaning hypocrites. And no, I'm not talking about the ones that are evil and that do bad things in the name of God. It's just that we have to have patience for people who are well-meaning even if mistaken, right? We're all of us misled or mistaken in some way.

My mom may have been foolish, but her heart is in the right place. She doesn't realize that she actually drives people away with her approach.

But I realized that night that because of what I read on this forum, it's people like her that have caused many of you here to condemn Christians.

I still believe in the bible. Most Christians misinterpret it.

I don't think, though, that Christians should be bashed on this forum. I know that everyone has had a bad experience with a Christian. Hell, my whole family is comprised of the type of Christian that condemn others to hell. I'm going to hell, according to them.

But most of the Christians on this forum don't seem to be the type that condemn people to hell, literally. I think everyone here is pretty much open-minded. I, of course, would like to see less Christian-bashing. I think it's actually gotten better since I joined a little over a year ago.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleJellric
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Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Frog]
    #3430917 - 12/01/04 02:42 AM (17 years, 11 days ago)

I think the real problem is fundamentalists, of all stripes. They construe their religious tomes in such a way as to force rigid, dogmatic beliefs upon other people. It's just that most of us have only encountered the Christian version. This strain is somewhat less virulent than say, the Islamic strain, but no less intrusive.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Jellric]
    #3431831 - 12/01/04 10:12 AM (17 years, 11 days ago)

Christians are the most inspected here because their logic and their thinking abilities are generally faulty on a variety of levels, their minds have become ensared in a very complex trap which gives them the illusion of not being trapped at all, and they require the most effort and help from others to break them free of this.

Obviously some of the ideas of Christianity are great, but there isn't even a point in keeping the label of Christianity because of that - these ideas are everywhere and exist free of structured thought.

There is just too many misunderstandings and misconceptions in the thought processes of the average Christian. They are mostly severely seperated from reality and cannot see the true meaning behind everything. They institutionalized a state of being as a physical, literal religion that has nothing to do with being at all. The only Christians that have Christ within them are either too deluded to understand the nature of that Christ, or they have built a false structure to interact with that Christ, which, as noted earlier, seperates them from reality.

Christianity does not exist, and the teachings that it was originally based upon had intention that Christianity was not to exist, just as George Washington did not want a two-party system.  :rolleyes:

The real, good benefits that have came from Christian have sprung up from the sense of community, fellow humans looking out for each other, and so forth. However, this does not require and in fact should not require religious belief, as far too many negative issues arise from that.

The age of logic, thinking, understanding, and being has arrived. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3432007 - 12/01/04 11:18 AM (17 years, 11 days ago)

Nice post Fireworks  :sun:

I pretty much agree with everyone here, except for one thing that everyone has been agreeing on so far.

Given the overwhelming love that is present here in the Shroomery, I don't think that the words "inspection" and "denouncement" are a good choice of words for how people react to Christian beliefs. What I mean by this is that when Christians get interrogated on their belief system, most Shroomerites that do this are not attempting a "i'm right you're wrong" dialogue. It is actually an attempt to deprogram by getting the person concerned to ask themselves question about the way they perceive reality. Most people that "inspect" and "denounce" are actually just trying to help them see the light, which is themselves.

But Christians usually have their beliefs rooted so deeply in their mind that it is a difficult thing to do, as they will rarely try to understand what they are being asked. Like Fireworks said, "their minds have become ensared in a very complex trap which gives them the illusion of not being trapped at all, and they require the most effort and help from others to break them free of this." The problem is Christianity gives out a very comfortable view of reality, and most Christians wouldn't let anyone doubt the validity of it.
And thus such discussions usually wind with the non-Christian saying stuff like "uggghh, I give up, I tried".

The best way for them to see the light is to ask them questions on their beliefs. You just cannot go around spreading YOUR truth on reality, you have to let people find truth on their own, by making them wonder.
A year ago, I started discussing with a person that went to Chrisitian school as a kid, and had firm beliefs on the validity of life after death, paradise and hell. I was listening to her and asking her questions to try and get a good idea of how she represented reality to herself.We were both really open on discussing things like that. And then one day, as I was stoned, I came up with a question: "Where do you think Paradise is located? On another planet or something?" I asked her that, and she didn't know, she had no idea. And later on, she said that my question kinda did "tilt" in her head (ya know, like a pinball! hehe, that's a french expression, sorry). Basically it kinda got her to wonder about her own beliefs. Today, I realize that I have seen evolution in the way she thinks about reality. She's asking herself questions, about death, consciousness, and no longer does she have a firm belief in anything (except maybe life after death, but now she sees it in a very different way then how she used to it). BTW she's my girlfriend since two months ago!  :laugh:



Basically, what I came here to say is that if the "inspection" and "denouncement" is made with Love, then it can not be considered as inspection and denouncement, it is HELP  :heart: :sun: :stoned:


The age of logic, thinking, understanding, and being has arrived.    :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3432079 - 12/01/04 11:39 AM (17 years, 11 days ago)

"...and they require the most help from others to break them free of this."

"It's called Deprogramming, son, and it's messy work. I remember those Moonies and how tough it was getting them back to normal life. Gave their parents fits! But some of them kids even go to the Church now! Hell, I quit that job, too much work. Being a cop works for me. It's a lot easier bringing in criminals than bringing back lost souls". --Deputy John Law


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: exclusive58]
    #3432119 - 12/01/04 11:55 AM (17 years, 11 days ago)

"BTW she's my girlfriend since two months ago! :smile:"

Congrats!  Your post shows just how satisfying it can be helping others uncover their real beliefs.  :wink:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (12/01/04 11:55 AM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3432227 - 12/01/04 12:27 PM (17 years, 11 days ago)

Tons of great insight in this thread.. especially from Fireworks and Exclusive.

I hope that any Christians reading this honest perspective on Christianity from non-Christians will help them to consider the possibility of viewing life in general more openly and less rigidly.

I think it's especially important to note that we are not trying to strike you down.. we are trying to open your eyes. I know you feel you've already had your eyes opened, but when we accept one state of being, we close our eyes and our mind. You must continuously open your eyes again and again (wider each time) to truly go beyond.

But, as one of my favorite Christian posters would say... "You probably won't listen anyway."


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #3432251 - 12/01/04 12:33 PM (17 years, 11 days ago)

Tons of great insight in this thread.. especially from Fireworks and Exclusive.

I hope that any Christians reading this honest perspective on Christianity from non-Christians will help them to consider the possibility of viewing life in general more openly and less rigidly.

But, as one of my favorite Christian posters would say... "You probably won't listen anyway."


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OfflineMrBump
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: tekramrepus]
    #3432323 - 12/01/04 12:57 PM (17 years, 11 days ago)

Ive had many pontificating strangers tell me im going to hell if i dont beleive in God and Jesus.
they offer a pamphlet to me, i refuse it. and then they go off on a very condesending rant about my heathened lifestyle. they never question the fact that maybe its the 14th time i get the same pamphlet, or im too busy to read it. they feel they can can me a hell bound sinner based on my refusal to grab a piece of paper out of their hand.
THEY are not good christians IMHO.

these incidents and many others like them form a microcosm of faith based actions that lead me to believe many so called "christains" are truly hypocrites.

the christians i know....well, alot of them are very judgemental, bigoted and dont really practice what the Bibly and Jesus teach.

unless your Luthern, believing in God is apperently not enough. you have to prove you love God through your actions. Help the poor and down trodden, love your nieghbor, show compassion and understanding, etc....
i have worked at non-profit agencies and legal offices that deal with helping the poor and the weak, most of my co-workers are not religious, or christian. many are atheists who show more compassion than any church going christian i have met.

many upper-middle class people who call themselves christians find it very easy to donate some out of style coat to a charity with one hand and use the other hand to point the blame at the ghetto-dwellers for being poor, or to chastise girls who get abortions as sluts.
My last Ex gf was exactly like this...a christian hypoctrite.


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3432412 - 12/01/04 01:21 PM (17 years, 11 days ago)

"Consider the possibility of viewing life in general more openly and less rigidly."

Maybe they just need to smoke some herb or drink more. Many of the Christian Coalition were once druggies or alcoholics and that was a big reason for the conversion. "I used to be all messed up on drugs, now I'm all messed up on the lord."

Promoting agnostic theology with a Christian (or any other religious belief) in the hope of conversion usually causes the discussion to deteriorate into an arguement and exasperation.

It's two one way streets! If the Jehovah's Witness at your door believes there is a shred of hope to get you to see their way, they will keep handing you pamphlets and keep coming back. Will they really listen to you? No way! Their mind is moving in one direction, and while you are talking they are already thinking about the next point of their attempted conversion.

They are close minded, rude and arrogant in their approach. And as Frog pointed out, it happens all the time in families or their associates. Inevitably, if someone gets terminally ill some religious family member or friend has to come "to the rescue" and make the last obnoxious stab at conversion before they die.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3432849 - 12/01/04 03:20 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Christians are the most inspected here because their logic and their thinking abilities are generally faulty on a variety of levels, their minds have become ensared in a very complex trap which gives them the illusion of not being trapped at all, and they require the most effort and help from others to break them free of this.




And Christians think that people who don't believe have faulty logic, too.  But Christians don't usually get mad and say nasty things to the non-believers.  Non-believers can say the most vile things about Christians. 

Quote:

There is just too many misunderstandings and misconceptions in the thought processes of the average Christian. They are mostly severely seperated from reality and cannot see the true meaning behind everything. They institutionalized a state of being as a physical, literal religion that has nothing to do with being at all. The only Christians that have Christ within them are either too deluded to understand the nature of that Christ, or they have built a false structure to interact with that Christ, which, as noted earlier, seperates them from reality.




"severely seperated from reality"???  Come on, Fireworks.  That's gross exageration.  People who are severely separated from reality are usually put on psychotropic drugs. 

Quote:

Christianity does not exist, and the teachings that it was originally based upon had intention that Christianity was not to exist, just as George Washington did not want a two-party system.  :rolleyes:




What do you mean that Christianity does not exist and was not supposed to exist?

Quote:

The real, good benefits that have came from Christian have sprung up from the sense of community, fellow humans looking out for each other, and so forth. However, this does not require and in fact should not require religious belief, as far too many negative issues arise from that.




It's not that there's anything wrong with religious beliefs.  What's wrong is that there are always going to be people who do bad things in the name of God or in the name of their religion. 

A good example we have right now are the terrorists.  NOt all muslims are like that, but I could see where people would generalize about them to the rest of the muslim population, just like people here tend to generalize about all Christians.

Quote:

The age of logic, thinking, understanding, and being has arrived. :grin:




Would you say that Einstein was illogical?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Cyber]
    #3434181 - 12/01/04 08:25 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

The majority of the people in this thread are right on target. I really can't think of anything to contribute that hasn't already been said. Good job everyone!


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Registered: 04/24/04
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Cyber]
    #3434324 - 12/01/04 08:53 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Hum..............

Very interesting thread and I see and fully understand many of the points in here. MY respect to all who have posted. :heart:

It is sad that many Christians are way off base and have allowed the world to see them as Money hoarding and false to there own belief's.

But as in many groups of people you will find falseness and deceit.


I would like to say that Christians are Followers of Christ. Nothing more and with careful study of Christ's words you will see that many of the things that Christians do are whacked.

One being the Giving money thing. Yes Jesus and his disciples had a treasurer and had money. But they had no building and never asked anyone for cash. And the cash they did have was used according to each other needs...........Anyway not to get off track


Christians have got most of it wrong these days. It sucks

But if anyone wants to know what it really is to be a Christan then do not look around you. Look to Jesus and his words.

Man is mostly a failure but Jesus will find those who search for him and will fill you with wisdom to know the difference.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3434574 - 12/01/04 09:52 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

I have to give christians thier due though. Living in a christian society, i have to say i live in one of the best, most fair and prosperous societies in the world (in my opinion) and i enjoy it, even though i dislike much of the direction of contemporary christianity and government.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Catalysis]
    #3434776 - 12/01/04 10:28 PM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Yes I agree living with and around real God loving Christians is very unexpectedly pleasant.

It is so sad in the eyes of God how whacked and greedy some Churches can be.

That is why I gave up my ordainment.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3435306 - 12/02/04 12:23 AM (17 years, 10 days ago)

This week, I met a very interesting car salesman who used to be a minister at a pentacostal(sp) church. He was absoloutly disguted with the amount of leadership these people demanded from him.

"They were grown adults who never learned how to think for themselves"

So now he sells cars and is very, very happy. I'd like to talk to him some more.


--------------------


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3435346 - 12/02/04 12:35 AM (17 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

CherryBomb said:
"They were grown adults who never learned how to think for themselves"




They are a dime a dozen arn't they?

Consider how most parents and school systems are rearing child. Children are told what to do, what to think, and how to do it. Then every one bitches why adults can't think for themselves. :crazy2:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3435375 - 12/02/04 12:48 AM (17 years, 10 days ago)

LOL

Ministers and car salesman are the same job

But yes there are many churches that promote complete lack of leadership. They do not teach them the facts of becoming what God wants only what they want............Money

God want all people to be great and much more than they think they can. To be successful in all they do.

When I tossed my robes in it was over money issues. My last time at the pulpit I gave all the donations back to the most needy people in our church that day and freaked out the other leaders of the church.

So bad in fact I was accused of being filled with Satan. WOW I had enough..............

God had directed me that day to do that with the donations. and then he told me to leave the church.

I was suppose to start my own church but I have not and I think God is somewhat disappointed with me.

It was going to be a real christian church where the donations paid the light bill and all the rest took care of the people and there needs.  etc............ Longer story than that.


Anyway many of today's Christians have no clue. But if they would just read the book of Acts and do what it says they would get it right. :thumbup:


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #3435380 - 12/02/04 12:51 AM (17 years, 10 days ago)

So what is the difference between what christianity was then and what it is now?


--------------------


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Why do you think Christians are the most inspected and denounced people in this forum? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3435411 - 12/02/04 01:02 AM (17 years, 10 days ago)

The Book of Acts is a history of the first 80 years of the Christan Church. There are many things but for me the biggest difference is how they handled the money.

The money was donated by people who were directed by God. The Apostles never asked for it they were just happy to get any. And once they had any money it was all keep in a community pot and things were bought according to the needs of the whole or the immediate needs of the one. They lived by the hand of God not by there own desires.

They were spreading the good news that Jesus was the new and only path to the kingdom of Heaven. Nothing more

They were capable of miraculous healings because they were filled with the holy spirit not filled with greed.

One can not perform the works of God when your heart is filled with the works of Men.

And this is why there are not Miracles performed on Oprah. And the ones that are done are never heard about because those people would never call Oprah. God has no need for TV


Anyway the entire concept of what a Christan church is today is 100% different from what Paul the Apostle wrote and what God wants. I have been first hand experienced witness to a couple healings and I can tell you that the people who did theses have Zero desire to tell anyone.

Being a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus.

Goes like this...........When in doubt ask yourself


Would Jesus do it this way?

If not then you have it wrong


I could go on and on but the Book of Acts can be read in one night. Read it


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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