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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Re: God Exists  [Re: Sclorch]
#582695 - 03/18/02 07:14 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sclorch, Sclorch, Sclorch, are you trying to usurp my position as head troublemaker?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 SoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 86
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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 Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582698 - 03/18/02 07:20 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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>>The circumstances of life are 100% perfect how an All Knowing God would >>test you, to see if you?ll believe or not
If God was "All knowing" would he need a "test" to see if people believe or not, or would he already know.
>>God?s greatest creation, humankind.
What makes you think we are the "greatest creation". Remember, humanity had a hell of a hard time accepting that their earth wasn't the center of the solar system and for that matter the universe. Is there a pattern here?
Peace
"We are by no means living in a society that condones innovation and advances on the mass scale, except where its convenient for those individuals and interests that are already in power."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: God Exists [Re: SoulTech]
#582706 - 03/18/02 07:28 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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If God was "All knowing" would he need a "test" to see if people believe or not, or would he already know.
Please do not use logic or reason (two God-created gifts to mankind) in a religious discussion.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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cHeMiCaLoRaNgE
journeyman
Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 51
Loc: Saskatoon, SK., Canada
Last seen: 21 years, 8 months
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 Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582759 - 03/18/02 08:50 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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we all know god exsists, just stop analyzing and chill out. I just left a phaze in my life where i tried to analyze every thing that came along ( objects, people, god, spirituality etc. ) when i already knew the answers, stop looking for what you already know exsists, this is how you will grow. that is not to say that i will not try to expand my knowledge of myself, my beliefs and the universe, i just wont fret about it anymore. if you stop expanding your knowledge, hence you will stop growth in these areas.
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<+> wOrLd PhIlOsOpHy CaN OnLy bE UnDeRsToOd ThRoUgH aStRaL aWaKeNiNg<+>
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Zahid
Stranger
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Re: God Exists [Re: Swami]
#582762 - 03/18/02 08:58 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Swami, you refuse to believe because a) religion doesn't fit "your agenda", and b) you disagree with organized religion. The Abrahamic faiths are obvious clues of the hereafter. They take place not only centuries apart, but thousands of years. Judaism and Christianity originated in what is now modern day Israel. Islam originated in what is now Saudi Arabia, with Palestine being the second holy land of al-Islam. The Abrahamic faiths are prophecies from the Lord. You're looking for anything to feed your disbelief, even if it means blocking out reason by completely ignoring everything I wrote in the topic post.
Question: If God is All Knowing, why would he have a test if he knows our future?
Answer: God gave man the freedome of choice. We do whatever we want on this earth, basically. God created it for us as part of the illusion. We can either live moral lives dedicated to the Lord, or we can dwell the world and derive earthly pleasures from it. Either way we go in life, God will know our future because he knows the Past, Present, and Future all at once.
Swami, are you going to die in disbelief? Dying in this physical/illusion world rejecting the revelations of the Abrahamic faiths? If you want to take the risk, it's your soul.
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Edited by Zahid (03/18/02 09:04 PM)
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Droz
Love of Life
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582793 - 03/18/02 09:37 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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The Abrahamic faiths are obvious clues of the hereafter.
The Abrahamic faiths are prophecies from the Lord.
Crap.
You have let yourself be brainwashed from some old book writing by just another person. Why do we need to believe or have faith in this god crap to live our lives well. There is no right and wrong way. Enough said.
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Evolution of Time.
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Zahid
Stranger
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Re: God Exists [Re: Droz]
#582799 - 03/18/02 09:43 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your opinion is your demise when you're comparing it to the three ancient religions that call to worship the one God. The messages of Allaah. You'll see though. Everyone does.
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Droz
Love of Life
Registered: 10/15/00
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Floorida
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582802 - 03/18/02 09:52 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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You have been brainwashed by one of these so called ancient religions. Completely.
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Evolution of Time.
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holyworrier
Stranger
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Loc: near NYC
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582835 - 03/18/02 10:44 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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In reply to:
- Try to think of every aspect of today?s world: the human race on planet earth. What humans are, how we are, our self-awareness, and our ability to do either right or wrong. The circumstances of life are 100% perfect how an All Knowing God would test you, to see if you?ll believe or not. If (non-existing) technology recorded the creation of earth and mankind, and displayed throughout history for man to view, there would be less of a test to submit to the Creator. If God directly spoke to mankind, there would be less of a test. In fact, for a long time there would be no test: everyone would know there is a God that simply longs for your love and praise for He created you.
If God it all-knowing, why does he employ tests to see who loves him? This is absurd.
Why would God create human life knowing that a large percentage his creation would fail His test and be consigned to eternal torment? This is a horribly sadistic concept.
Why would God, having created humankind, demand their praise? Do you want praise from your lessers, or from your betters? Classic egomania.
This whole "God(s)" thing, as it arose with early Homo Sapiens, or perhaps before, has been coopted for use as a control mechanism for the power hungry, and remains so deployed today.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582886 - 03/18/02 11:44 PM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Swami, you refuse to believe because a) religion doesn't fit "your agenda", and b) you disagree with organized religion.
b) + c) where you stated in your original post that there is no proof whatsoever. That is a pretty strong reason to not believe in something. Would you buy a longevity serum without proof? Maybe, but I certainly would not.
Judaism and Christianity originated in what is now modern day Israel. Islam originated in what is now Saudi Arabia, with Palestine being the second holy land of al-Islam.
As I said they are somewhat in agreement because they originate from the same cultural roots.
Question: If God is All Knowing, why would he have a test if he knows our future?
Answer: God gave man the freedome of choice.
How many people raised in one religion are "free" to change? Enculturation is a powerful force. Did you know that abused children are way more likely to abuse their own children? That doesn't sound like free choice.
So according to Zahid, I was created in a certain environment, with a certain religious upbringing, and an inborn curiosity and questioning mind that won't allow me to accept ancient myths. God knew this ahead of time and will punish me for the way and the circumstances in which he created me. Sounds pretty cruel to me.
mi, are you going to die in disbelief? Dying in this physical/illusion world rejecting the revelations of the Abrahamic faiths? If you want to take the risk, it's your soul.
So all I have to do is believe? I can kill my brothers, commit adultery and steal from work, but if I pray at night then everything is cool?
Did you know that there is NO DIFFERENCE in the rates of divorce, suicide, child abuse, alcoholism, etc. etc between atheists and religious people? (See Swami's second quote!)
MORE importantly, no atheist has ever killed in the name of God, unlike your blood-thirsty Abrahamic brethren.
Then we come to Swami's all-important rule of internal consistency. Are the Abrahamic religions internally consistent? Not even close. I could write 100 pages on that.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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SoulTech
Automated
Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 86
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582957 - 03/19/02 01:22 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think god can be fully represented in any idea or anything for that matter. I also don't really want to discredit anyones opinions on the matter because I don't feel there is a wrong answer. Who's to say that my ideas are any better than the next man's or vice versa.
I think of it as any means we have to conceptualize god are based on the properties of our existance (how can it be otherwise), which severly limit us if you think about it. How can you conceptualize something unconceptualizable. For example: Someone says, "God's intentions are to have a test so he can judge who believes and who doesn't believe in him." I think, "Thats personifying god to think like we as humans think which to me is silly." Does god think? Does god have intentions? Does god judge? These are all principles of our existance. To give an example of god in our terms of existance, I'll use the example Zahid used with the universe being a balloon and god being on the other side of the balloon. If the balloon was filled with water and we existed as tiny molecules of water in this balloon then water is all we have known and all we could possibly know (without taking into account the sides of the balloon being of a different material). If god was on the other side of the balloon we would only conceptualize him in our terms of water because there is no other way we could know any different. Another example might be a person who is born blind trying to describe colors in terms of their visual properties. Think of these primitive models in an infinitely larger and infinitely more complex scale applied to our existance.
I have a feeling im not getting my idea across too well but I'm not sure how else to explain it (damn our medium of communication). Maybe this metaphore will help a little: If you could only move in one of six directions at any given time (up, down, left, right, forward, backward) god would be the seventh direction.
Im apologizing in advance if this does not make any sense whatsoever. I might just be venting a little bit. I was in a sad/urgent mood tonight and writing this post made me feel a little better. This is just my opinion and you can take it as you like.
And btw my opinions on the matter change very frequently.
Peace
"We are by no means living in a society that condones innovation and advances on the mass scale, except where its convinient for those individuals and interests that are already in power."
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In(di)go
People of the sun.
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582973 - 03/19/02 01:38 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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In reply to:
God gave man the freedome of choice. We do whatever we want on this earth, basically. God created it for us as part of the illusion. We can either live moral lives dedicated to the Lord, or we can dwell the world and derive earthly pleasures from it
yeah... i believe in free choice... but its not really a FREE choice if you believe that when you choose to live the earthly pleasures you know youll burn in the lake of fire FOREVER, is it?
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sir tripsalot
Administrator
Registered: 07/09/99
Posts: 6,487
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#582986 - 03/19/02 02:05 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hmmm what about those who aren't even there to take the test? like some African tribes who are still amazed by mirrors living in the middle of nowhere.
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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.
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raytrace
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
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Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
#583087 - 03/19/02 06:15 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah, maybe that's what i'm gonna do with my children too... i will prepare a test for them and if they fail i will torture them for ever... out of love...
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damilio
Stranger
Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
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Re: God Exists [Re: Droz]
#583089 - 03/19/02 06:17 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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We ARE god.
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Something without hart in it, cannot touch a hart.
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NextGenHippie
enthusiast
Registered: 03/30/01
Posts: 311
Loc: MD, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: God Exists [Re: damilio]
#583103 - 03/19/02 06:38 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Once again, someone says exactly what I was going to, now I don't have to.
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[pot]Think left and think right[pot]
[pot]and think low and think high[pot]
[pot]Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try[pot]
-Dr. Seuss
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Fliquid
Back from being gone.
Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 6,953
Loc: omotive
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Indeed god is  
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 My latest music! 
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: God Exists [Re: Fliquid]
#583149 - 03/19/02 08:22 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is this the part where we all flic our Bic lighters and do the wave in unison while singing"We are the World"?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Fliquid
Back from being gone.
Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 6,953
Loc: omotive
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Re: God Exists [Re: Swami]
#583155 - 03/19/02 08:37 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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No. Funny, bunny.
We are the universe, we are god, we are what we think we are.
So this would mean, i think i am rich so i am. NOT!
People and things excist from energie, energie attracts and pushes away. It also influences energie from other people. So, if you think you are rich, but other people don't think so. You will not be rich.
We all influence each other. Thats why monks who live in far away places have more peace of mind. They are not influenced by outside forces.
This is my short description of why I believe we are god.
And if you don't LIKE IT!!!
Tell me your version ;-)
P.s.
I really believe in this.
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My latest music!
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: God Exists [Re: Swami]
#583230 - 03/19/02 10:30 AM (21 years, 8 months ago) |
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chik chik 
"Ahem... We are the wor..."
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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