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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #586326 - 03/22/02 12:11 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

spiritual materialism is dangerous, watch out. You may have grown some levels to be able to see from a higher point of view now, but dont let this new vision blind you up to the point where it stops your growth! Its good to know, its good to belief, there is a lot of strength to be found in that, but be carefull to not let your faith narrow your mind and ultimately close your heart. always be open. always be.


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Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing

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OfflineCrapula
explorer
Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 20
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Fliquid]
    #586704 - 03/22/02 08:04 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Good quote from a book I read "Origins"(scientific, not religous reading) The author asked "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Think about it.....if you can answer this you, you can know everything.

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OfflineAmoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Crapula]
    #586869 - 03/22/02 11:50 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

to be infinitely nothing, that must be the loneliest feeling in the world..


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InvisibleMorgue Juice
journeyman

Registered: 05/06/00
Posts: 41
Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #586952 - 03/23/02 02:19 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Why don't we just say there is a god and there isn't a god, both at the same time and be done with it.

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01 Happy 23rd Shroomiversary!
Posts: 34,218
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 1 day, 15 minutes
Re: God Exists [Re: Morgue Juice]
    #587134 - 03/23/02 07:37 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

You can't prove that there is

You can't prove that there isn't

Just believe what you believe. I for one believe that we are all God.



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineLordPeter
newbie
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 30
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #587209 - 03/23/02 09:56 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid - That was a erm, interesting post.

Islam - I think It's a disgrace to the human race. Isnt it this very same religion that makes people like you believe your God will send you to paradise with 384 virgin wifes for packing yourselves with explosives and blowing up innocent teenagers? Somehow I think someone was having a laugh when they put that in your religion.

You may believe in the Korans teachings, but please dont try and tell us we're going to burn in hell if we dont fall for it too, Id much rather believe in Santa Claus's teachings thank you, and im sure Christians and Jews would not agree that their religions are in any way like yours either.

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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: God Exists [Re: LordPeter]
    #587227 - 03/23/02 10:36 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Lordpeter, do not confuse islam with extremist fundamentalist nutheads. Its like blaming christianity for the actions of the kukluxklan.


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Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing

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Offlineseeker
Curator ofBarbaricRefinery

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 128
Loc: between Here and There
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #587280 - 03/23/02 11:49 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

...fe)=(Death)=(Life)=(Death)=(Li...- the formula for all existence

As long as We continue to believe that We and/or our God(s) stand outside of this
equation We will remain blind. The only sin is ignorace through choice. Everything else is only variations on a theme.

Dose this make sense?


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In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)

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OfflineAmoeba665
strange
Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 275
Loc: a hidden microutopia at t...
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: God Exists [Re: seeker]
    #587333 - 03/23/02 12:58 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

i grok...

i thin that the proof of god's existence is everywhere, in everything.. we are living proof. but if something is self evident and people still choose to not realize that fact, there is nothing you can say or do to prove it to them that hasn't already been tried..


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01 Happy 23rd Shroomiversary!
Posts: 34,218
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 1 day, 15 minutes
Re: God Exists [Re: seeker]
    #587344 - 03/23/02 01:11 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

FUCK DUDE!

I was going to change my name on my one-year anniversary to "The Seeker". FUCK. Now I can't do it.

shit.


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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: God Exists [Re: LordPeter]
    #587568 - 03/23/02 06:52 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

lordpeter... i agree with bbin... believe it or not, there is not one single line in the qu?ran that sais youll go to heaven if you kill for ala... the qu?ran, as far as i?ve read theaches you to love your fellow man, just like yourself... as does almost every religion... too bad an awful lot of the believers tend to overread that line...
catholicism is not better than islam... look at the cruzades, or the inquizition... man that was evil...
so don?t believe everything TV tells you about these guys...


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: God Exists [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #588069 - 03/24/02 11:48 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

MeltingPenguin wrote:

In reply to:

Zahid, do you go to christian rock concerts? isyour favorite band Creed? or are they not underground enough for
you. Hav you ever seen Bible man?

I can't believe how primitve you are! You believe in the Sky god, peeing down at us from atop,...you beleive in
inveted concepts like good and evil, you are an absoulute GEM! sooo cute, your like a monkey!
so you believe in the Devil too? and angels? dones't beleiving in more tha one Deity make you a pagen? Oh, I won't
get too into the paradoxes of your imposed belief sytem
hahahahaahah your fantastic! your rock!




Why would I go to Christian rock concerts? Yes, I've seen the Bible before. I live in the west, like most of you, I attended church briefly when I was young. I'm aware what Christianity is. And yes, Muslims believe in angels, jinns, and a shaytaan (Satan to you). But we believe in them as creations of Allah, and not a partner with Him. You meant to say "you rock!" right?

ArCh_TemPlaR:




God exist because of the *books*. We can go back and erased or rewrite such histories, and we wouldn't be having this conversation,
hypothetically speaking. An existence of GOD means little if you haven't heard of it before. And Your brand of "free choice" morality is quite
creepy. Since there many passed-on cultures that are non-God based religions, your morality doesn't fit the criteria.

And so what if the "three" existed? It has no correlation to the all Eastern systems. Some of the kabbalah systems do have relevancy. If
you're going to assert the "Totality", you should try to explain the similarities with the East. Or else you have no grounding to stand on.


While in the far East Christianity and Judaism is almost unheard of, Islam exists there and is growing rapidly. If you have died never learning about the truth, Allah will have mercy on you and allow you into Paradise. If you've been raised a Buddhist or a Hindu, and never learned of Islam, Allah will be merciful towards you because He is most merciful.


Because Islam is growing so fast, it exists everywhere in the world, from Argentina to China.

Nah.. A child can be trained to do wrong but to see it as normal. PERFECT?!! *LMAO Why don't you STAND in front of a starving Ethiopian
child and say that.. And the next.. And the next and the next...


Of course, but the child will eventually become an adult; learning what right and wrong is naturally.



And what does numbers prove? Zip. No, wait a sec.. A couple of billions, non-Godbased fundamentalists are going into Limbo, hell, or
whatever. I'd say the certain faiths are very ethnic-based. You won't find too many Asians in the abrahamic faiths.

If I were to imaginge it, I'd give them all hell for the stupidity of all abrahamic cultures caused to humanity. I'll still consider them great
teachers with good intentions but unaware of the implications.


Faith isn't ethnic-based at all. You'll find millions of Asian Muslims in the world because Islam is the perfect religion and it prevails all over the world. Since Christianity prevails in europe and in the west, there are not that many Asian Christians, but I'm sure there is a number of them. Islam will continue to grow in the far east, as it already does.

In conclusion, it'sq uite self-righteous and contradicting of your GOD (the ALL Merciful) and you to judge people's disagreements. I suppose
my parents, Amidists, are going the "wide and fast." You said this in front of me, you'll kiss the cement, immediately. NOt because I'm
violent, because your enculterated ignorance and little understanding in the ramifications of your views. I doubt I hit you, but I'll give a
serious lipping on your preaching


It's different when you're in disagreement with the truth. Why do you feel your parents are going the "wide and fast"? Because they are? My own mother is going the "wide and fast", do you think it's any easier because I'm a Muslim? Heh. You would hit a Muslim on the street for preaching? I'm not even going to reply to that. Educate yourself on Islam, ArCh_TemPlaR. You'll find that it doesn't wage war on science but supports it, and that it makes sense. There's a select few on this board who I think would embrace Islam if they knew everything there is to know about it. Lozt Soul is one of them, and maybe even you ArCh, if you would get over your attitude that you're too good for organized religion and open your mind to the possibility that everything Muhammad said regarding the afterlife, God, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, is the truth. Get over yourself, and you'll find Islam is the best thing that could ever happen to you. I did, and I used to take everything Marilyn Manson said to heart. Visit The Truth and you'll see what I'm talking about when I say "Islam is the truth"


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Edited by Zahid (03/24/02 11:54 AM)

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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #588196 - 03/24/02 02:16 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

... this is why for me most 'discussions' on god are quite useless and rather annoying, all these sides taken and rather pointless arguments on irrelevant aspects of what we deem to label 'godhood'. All we can do is tell each other our own versions, but what can we ever achieve by trying to convince (or convict) someone else according to what we ourselves think to be the true nature of god and spirit? I am right, yet i am no righter then you. And of course you are right, yet i choose to stand left of that, doesnt mean that we cannot both be right. Perspectives, relative angles, points of view, subject, mind, do you really think to hold a claim on 'the' thruth? Well then, more power to you brother!
....this and that and blah blah blah, you see?, so, surely now you must understand that so and so and ratata the thruth trampampam and thats why i am more right then you....
yawn


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Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01 Happy 23rd Shroomiversary!
Posts: 34,218
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 1 day, 15 minutes
Re: God Exists [Re: BBin]
    #588233 - 03/24/02 03:06 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe by throwing different opinions out there we can all come to strengthen our own personal thruths. Or maybe we should just remove the S& P forum from this board all together. Then you wouldn't have to see people expressing their own truths so much.


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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


Edited by Learyfan (03/24/02 03:09 PM)

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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: God Exists [Re: Learyfan]
    #588935 - 03/25/02 11:24 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

thank you learyfan for giving an example of what i was talking about. Instead of a nice interaction and exchange of insight you respond to my ego-based post with a mirroring ego-centered reply, turning this discussion into an argument about who is right or wrong, about what someone 'maybe' should or shouldnt do, because of this of that and so and so. All this sarcastic arrogance, does it really help you to express your 'thruth'? Thats really quite sad man.
And so, from a conversation about what we feel about god, we have digressed into this. nice one.. .
...


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Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing

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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 04/30/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: God Exists [Re: BBin]
    #588942 - 03/25/02 11:35 AM (22 years, 1 month ago)

funny, if i post something with substance, something that expresses something of what i feel myself, nobody responds, but if i post a negative remark, something which expresses some of my personal dissatisfaction about the interaction on these forums, then immediatly i get a respond in kind, totally irrelevant, expressing nothing but a programmed respond drenched in sarcastic arrogance serving only to hide ignorance. funny, or 'maybe' its just sad. anybody learn anything new in here today? anything to make it worth your while?


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Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing

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InvisibleIn(di)go
People of the sun.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 8,157
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: God Exists [Re: BBin]
    #589095 - 03/25/02 03:48 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

yup... i learned something


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Edited by Lozt Soul (03/25/02 03:52 PM)

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Offlinemckenna
Stranger
Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 1
Last seen: 22 years, 14 days
Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #589183 - 03/25/02 05:19 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

To me it realy looks like it's time for some new ideas about religion and life. How do you, Zahir, explain the very fact that we humans today have the power to either destroy the planet on wich we live, or create a united, intelligent and sensible world where the important things in life reach everyone. With this almighty God of yours, how do you explain our role in this. You (or your religion) claim that God created the earth for us. But with the progression of technological evolution, it's only a matter of time before we can colonise other parts of the universe. We actually have the power to push our and possibly large portions of the universes destiny in the direction we want just by choosing. This power is also getting greater and greater as the knowledge of the situation we find ourselfs increase.

What I dislike about your ideas, Zahir, is first of all that they are not yours. You have chosen to believe in a beliefsystem created centurys ago. Beliefsystems are based on, you guessed it, beliefs. Trust me when I say this. NO ONE REALLY KNOWS. Second of all, this belief claims to know as much about God as we humans will ever know. This is kind of silly if you think about it. Should we, the first organism on this planet to have religious ideas think that we already have all the knowledge that we ever could have about the Other, or the Unspeakable, or God?

What I think will happen as we develop better and more sophisticated ways to work with the psychedelic experience is that it will show the religions for what they are. As we gain more knowledge about the situation in wich we are embedded, we will see that the religions are on to something for sure. But so is science. So is philosophy. So are all the things wich make us progress in understanding.

We must also be open to the idea that we know very little about what is happening. The religions are crystalised belifesystem with little or no room for new ideas. One of religions rules are that they are right, and therefore you should believe them. As you say: "Accept it, or suffer in the hereafter." So the religion can not be questioned. This rule hinders the progression of understanding, and that isn't very empowering for the individual.

Your picture of the universe is like a monarchy, with a powerful king (God) setting ALL the rules and punishing those who don't follow them. Is this the kind of universe you would create if you had the possibillity to do so? Last time I checked monarchy was thrown out and replaced by democracy. I'm not saying democracy is the best way. I'm just saying it's better than monarchy. It's when you start to question the existing ideas that you can come up with new and hopefully better ideas that are closer to the truth. Likewise, todays religions are probably going to have to be replaced by something better (and truer). Hopefully a new kind of overarching metaphor that unifies us and gives us the power to create the edenlike world that we all would like to live in.

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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: God Exists [Re: mckenna]
    #589433 - 03/25/02 09:22 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

To me it realy looks like it's time for some new ideas about religion and life. How do you, Zahir, explain the very fact that we humans today have the power to either destroy the planet on wich we live, or create a united, intelligent and sensible world where the important things in life reach everyone. With this almighty God of yours, how do you explain our role in this. You (or your religion) claim that God created the earth for us. But with the progression of technological evolution, it's only a matter of time before we can colonise other parts of the universe. We actually have the power to push our and possibly large portions of the universes destiny in the direction we want just by choosing. This power is also getting greater and greater as the knowledge of the situation we find ourselfs increase.

It doesn't matter where a human travels in the universe, he's still in the physical world. There are many things that are not possible because it is in the will of Allah, Most High. This includes things like time travel, and to "push our and possible large portions of the universe destiny in the direction we want", or whatever you were trying to say. God wouldn't allow humans to literally destroy the planet, because it's not in His plan, and Allah is the best of planners.

What I dislike about your ideas, Zahir, is first of all that they are not yours. You have chosen to believe in a beliefsystem created centurys ago. Beliefsystems are based on, you guessed it, beliefs. Trust me when I say this. NO ONE REALLY KNOWS. Second of all, this belief claims to know as much about God as we humans will ever know. This is kind of silly if you think about it. Should we, the first organism on this planet to have religious ideas think that we already have all the knowledge that we ever could have about the Other, or the Unspeakable, or God?

Yes, the belief system Muslims follow is centuries old; but it's authentic. My beliefs are based on the Holy Qur'an, the complete word of God make book. Trust me when I say this: You can spend your time in this life wondering what the afterlife is, what the big picture is, etc. when you have three religions crafted by God's messengers right in front of your eyes. You don't follow them because somewhere in your mind/subconscious you disagree with its teachings. You can become atheist, and die with complete disbelief in a Creator. Or you can submit your will to the will of God and know what awaits you in the next life.

What I think will happen as we develop better and more sophisticated ways to work with the psychedelic experience is that it will show the religions for what they are. As we gain more knowledge about the situation in wich we are embedded, we will see that the religions are on to something for sure. But so is science. So is philosophy. So are all the things wich make us progress in understanding.

Explain a better and more sophisticated way to work with the psychedelic experience. Psychedelics are not like technology. The more intelligent a person is, the more he will get out of a psychedelic session. Example, two intelligent persons using LSD; One person might take LSD and decide there is no God and no afterlife from what he learned during the trip. Another person might take LSD, find God, and begin a journey of self-discovery. Psychedelics won't "show religion for what it is" because the experience of faith is one hard to explain, and most kafirs won't find God if they take psychedelics because they've closed their hearts. The more I trip, the more I believe in Allah.

We must also be open to the idea that we know very little about what is happening. The religions are crystalised belifesystem with little or no room for new ideas. One of religions rules are that they are right, and therefore you should believe them. As you say: "Accept it, or suffer in the hereafter." So the religion can not be questioned. This rule hinders the progression of understanding, and that isn't very empowering for the individual.

When you add new ideas to an already perfect religion of God, you get something like Christianity. Islam has never changed since Muhammad's time, and that is why the religion is so great; it's the final word of God. Adding new ideas to a religion of God is distorting the word of God. There is a reason these faiths say you must believe: they're real. I've gotten into alot of discussions with fellow Muslims about "faith hindering reason". We all agreed that it simply doesn't, and never has, because we know the truth. We experienced the mercy of God, and it is the greatest feeling ever. The kafir though, view faith as anything from a crutch for the weak minded to complete evil. The unbelievers will say anything in opinion, theory, or belief to eachother to comfort one another.

Your picture of the universe is like a monarchy, with a powerful king (God) setting ALL the rules and punishing those who don't follow them. Is this the kind of universe you would create if you had the possibillity to do so? Last time I checked monarchy was thrown out and replaced by democracy. I'm not saying democracy is the best way. I'm just saying it's better than monarchy. It's when you start to question the existing ideas that you can come up with new and hopefully better ideas that are closer to the truth. Likewise, todays religions are probably going to have to be replaced by something better (and truer). Hopefully a new kind of overarching metaphor that unifies us and gives us the power to create the edenlike world that we all would like to live in.

To compare the great test of life to a form of government is absurd. Since I was 13, or 14, I always questioned the meaning of things. I was always a seeker for the ultimate truth. Eventually I reasoned that God existed. The word God itself is a result of the Abrahamic faiths, so I reasoned that one of them was true, if not all of them. Then I reasoned that Islam was the undistorted word of God, and that the teachings of Islam is how the one true God would go about plans. Inshallah.


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Edited by Zahid (03/25/02 09:37 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: God Exists [Re: Zahid]
    #589470 - 03/25/02 10:12 PM (22 years, 1 month ago)

"...when dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."

"...belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort,
or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence. The more
certitude one assumes, the less there is to think about, and a person sure of everything
would never have any need to think about anything and might be considered clinically
dead under current medical standards, where the absence of brain activity is taken
to mean that life has ended. "


-- Robert Anton Wilson

I posted these quotes in another thread, but they seem appropriate here as well.

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