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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mullugh]
    #25423116 -


This image is side by side comparison of PE on left and cyan on right. PE has two days march on cyan, but great progress/growth.


This is a close up of the spawn...nothing really to see after four days...concerns me.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mullugh]
    #25423440 -

Very nice BH! Those are some outstanding grows. Thanks for that info, I'm getting ready to spawn 2 gallons on Panaeolus Bisporus, I'm gonna test out your tip on no more than 30% grains by dry weight.


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:ganja::mushroom::mushroom::flyhigh:
:sporedrop:~~~:peyote::sanpedro:~~~:sporedrop:

:chugbeer:

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Changa Alchemist]
    #25423486 -

The master of Pans is back!
Thanks for the information regarding overlay. I look forward to seeing how a leaner sub. effects overlay- a problem that at least several of us have had recently; I also look forward to learning more from your thoughts on all aspects of Pan culture.


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Documented Grows

We are stardust- billion year old carbon- caught in the devils bargain- Joni Mitchell

Edited by mary fairchild (08/30/18 09:36 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25423927 -

I don't know if I'm a master, but I really do enjoy learning from growing them.  My new thread will try to establish what I've observed about the substrate composition being important for overlay conditions.  Up to this point, it has been a loose observation, but with this next run, I think I can pretty much prove it.  If not, though, I'll post that too.  I just need to finish the experiment before I post.

It should be noted that substrates being too nutritive leading to poor pin sets or pin development is not a new idea by any means.  A good example of this is Stipticus and other wood-lovers.  If you over supplement Stipticus sawdust blocks, for example, you'll get big bunches of pins, but those pins will fail to develop properly and will eventually abort.  And yet stipticus can colonize pure grain fine; it just won't fruit well on it. 

Cubensis is often used as a kind of justification for pan cyans that the richer a substrate, the better, and for cubensis, it is true that there isn't a large penalty for using even pure grain for fruiting as long as you make sure to mix some kind of water-holding element like vermiculite in it or use a good casing that has a high water-holding capacity.  And yet even cubensis does better using manure or compost, neither which are anywhere as nutritive as grain.  So I challenge the idea that the more nutrients you can get away with the better.  It just isn't true, and nutrient levels are very infrequently the limiting factor to grows (I'd argue it is more often substrate water as the substrate colonizes more during the run).

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25423953 -

So 30% spawn by dry weight.. just trying to think of that off the top of my head, does that mean you're using a quart or probably less per Pyrex dish in the picture you shared?


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:ganja::mushroom::mushroom::flyhigh:
:sporedrop:~~~:peyote::sanpedro:~~~:sporedrop:

:chugbeer:

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Changa Alchemist]
    #25423968 -

Yeah I'd love a rough volumetric ratio...
How does 30% dry weight of grains compare to like 1 qt colonized grain vs 4 qt substrate (assuming that 30% is the max so less wouldn't be bad as long as there are enough inoculation points)?


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Trade List




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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25424043 -

Killer info for discussion and evaluation!


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🅂🄸🄶🄼🄰


Helpful Threads
stonesun
Mycolorado’s Tamp Fruit Project
Tampanensis Grow with Mycolorado
bw86's Jalisco Grow

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25424172 -

Informative. Havent found pan cyan fruiting directly on the dung unlike cubes, but instead once the dung disintegrates to the soil for quite sometime they appear.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #25424517 -

WOW I DID IT!
I reached the end of this thread! Only took a few weeks lol

I grew some Pan Cams a while ago. see:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15594776#15594776

Sadly the spore prints are all dead due to storage in a Texas shed for several years.

Pan Cyans MSed to RGS on 8-8-18 and shook 7 days ago.

What do y'all think?


I hope to spawn some to bulk this weekend.

LOVE all the new info & energy here.

Also starting some on hpoo agar to select for clean & growth.
Tx Mary F for the idea

Blue Helix you set the bar I'm now aiming for!

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25424613 -

Blue Helix said:
I don't know if I'm a master...


Will you adopt me?

Seriously, your grows have inspired me for years. Can't believe your back. With your information
on sub nutrition, my next two grows are already planned out.

Just waiting on this Aussie LC?


--------------------
Cultivating Panaeolus cyanescens


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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Changa Alchemist] * 3
    #25425182 -

Way way less than a quart per 13"x9", especially if you mean dry.  Here is my recipe for a normal run:

1) Manure      80  oz
2) WBS          20  oz
3) water        200  oz  (~1.48 gallon)
4) vermiculite  3 liter

The above mix makes roughly 20 pounds for me.  I split the above formula into two very large spawn bags (unless you are lucky enough to have extremely large ones as found on eBay, you'll need more).  Those two spawn bags are just the right size to fill my 21-quart pressure cooker.  I cook for about 4 hours, let cool slowly overnight, and inject 120ml of dense liquid culture per bag, mix well kneading the bad, and set them on a wire shelf separated by at least an inch (no, the 120ml is not a magic number.  It's just the size of my largest syringe).

Those two bags lay six to eight 13"x9" containers at around 1.25" to 1.75" substrate depth when compacted (I think the six at 1.75" is better).  After waiting 24 hours to recover from the lay, I case with 1/4" casing (just covering).  I roughly just use to 50:50 formula, except I also use a pH probe, and I have found that some of the quotes of the 50-50 mix are reporting entirely too much hydrated lime.  If in doubt, just leave it out entirely.

So how much magic can be found in those two bags?  Do the math: at 50% BE (the low water mark for a real success for me), you will get

200 ounces of dry substrate inputs * 50% BE = 100 ounces of fresh wet mushrooms
100oz wet * 10% dry per wet = 10oz dry
10oz dry * 28g/oz = 280g dry
280g * 1 000-sized capsule  = 370 x 750mg 000-sized capsules(each being a pretty strong trip)*

*Now, let's say you get overlay: then figure a 60% hit which is still 150 capsules! 



Here is some more pan cyan grow porn for you:



cambo run:




Here is a side shot of the growing chamber with the heavy furniture wrap plastic pulled up for the shot:



Note that because of the way I hooked up my humidifier, it can both cycle on and off at a fixed interval (6 per day) while it also turns on at a set low humidity until it hits the programmed top humidity.  This is how I connected just the humidity switch (the timer addition requires a very slight rewiring that I can share with anyone who PMs me):



PS - As far as using weights rather than volume, a volume is a less-than-optimal way to manure unless you are sure your manure is pretty consistent.  I only measure vermiculite using volume because the amount of vermiculite isn't very critical  Also, the measurement is for dry manure, not damp and definitely not wet.  If you are having trouble finding a great scale, here is one like the one I have:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRT3EGJ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8

Up to 13 pound stainless steel top scale that is backlit and accurate to 1g for about $22!?  That's an insanely good deal.  If you don't have one, get it even if it's just for growing.

Edited by Blue Helix (09/01/18 02:28 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25425228 -

Brilliant. So you inject LC onto grain and substrate all mixed together....

Can you share about your preferred LC tek?

Thanks for everything.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25425230 -

That is an awesome GH setup. I dream of something like that one day.  Can't be too hard :sunny: Awesome shit. Thanks for sharing the details.

About to case a couple of trays of aussies myself. I go by volume, 1:3 spawn:bulk and use about 1:1 cow manure:CVG for the bulk substrate. Usually add a bunch more verm though as I'm mixing it because cow shit is like mud, so it's quite a low % of manure in the end. Works well though - I'll post some pics when they start growing soon.

I agree 0.75g is a strong dose. I think the shroomery dosage calculator is broken when it comes to pans! It suggest 2g for a level 4 experience. Fuck that! I took 0.75 last weekend, went for a walk in the forest and ended up on my back melting into the ground. Watched myself get peeled like an apple and then the sky poured into my brain :lmafo: incredible shroom.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: space_shrooms]
    #25425263 -

Yeah, I have the same kind of experience with them being wicked strong, aicaca.  I think the dosage calculator needs some serious retweak for pan cyans, something I brought up like 10 years ago - never happened.

One thing about the grows is that I never think anyone should assume that someone out there (me included) has arrived at final best grow of all time.  I have definitely have not, and even more to the point, I still have failures. 

Like this last grow I used too much rice bran I think, and literally today I see pins around the overlay, and a lot of them seem like they might be staled (I'll get some pictures of this).  Stalled pins can be from a substrate too thin (these trays are only 1.25" which is kind of pushing it on the thin side and I'd really recommend a bit closer to 1.75 or even 2"), too much humidity in the chamber (must keep it below 100% for these), too little humidity which can easily dry out the substrate before the pins have even had a chance to develop, and--and this one might surprise you--too much grain content for the water-holding capacity of the substrate.  Pan cyans evolved to fruit on manure, not grain.  Plus they are very petite with shallow substrates that both can dry out easily during fruiting (unlike cubensis which is like a tank in comparison that can draw water from several inches down in the substrate).  While I think they do benefit from grain supplementation to an extent, you shouldn't let your substrate become too far from manure in terms of nutrient levels per water-holding capacity.  For one, manure has a really high water-holding capacity--a lot more than straight WBS--and I think that's one problem with fruiting these directly off straight cased grain.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25425270 -

That info is gold Blue Helix,
That is a very neat setup speally the humidity input.
So the humidifier provides both humidity and Fae in that 6 per day intervals. Planning to rig up a chamber like this if time permits.

Thanks for the share BH!! :bow2:

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #25425283 -

Yes, if you add the timer, the output of the timer is fed back into the Dwyer humidity switch pins.  Like I said you have to wire it a little differently.  Basically, you just switch 10 and 11 then you feed the black (hot or narrow prong) from the timer output into 9 and hook the timer's white (neutral) to 7.  That little change makes the humidifier driven by either the humidity switch being on or the timer being on if the humidity switch is off.  I need to make a new diagram for that change, but that's what I am using.  All of this is super easy stuff (I could show someone it in two minutes), but you should double check everything before you plug it in! 

As for the humidity switch, just look for the humidity switch from Dwyers with the probe and you can use any timer you want.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25425293 -

PS - the humidity $50 switch is Dwyer's HS-111:

https://www.globaltestsupply.com/pdfs/cache/www.globaltestsupply.com/hs-series/manual/hs-series-manual.pdf

The additional $50 THC-P humidity probe is here:

https://www.globaltestsupply.com/product/dwyer-thc-p-humidity-probe-0-3v

You might wonder why you would spend so much on this stuff.  Well, if you are at all serious about growing mushrooms, this switch with the probe are worth their weight in gold.  For example, you know how most humidity meters cannot even manage to keep measuring the humidity for a few years?  Well, this switch and calibratable probe have been working for me for over 15 years and been used dozens of times in some grows where the spores were so thick that they clogged up the fans and burned them out!  The only thing I changed is that I taped a piece of paper towel over the probe air intake holes so the unit didn't clog up with spores.  That's it.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25425396 -

Wow - that is so awesome. Thanks so much for this info. This is really cool.

How do you power the humidity switch and the heating switch? Is it a power supply that is separate?

Also I'm wondering what kind of humidifier you're using? Are you feeding it into those tubes to disperse in the GH?

Finally, what's the deal with the heating switch? I notice there are two things plugged into it, do you heat and cool?

Apologies if these are really nooby questions but I am a massive noob at this kind of thing.

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Blue Helix]
    #25425932 -

Woahh Dwyer's HS-111 for 15 years. It has surely paid for more than it self. Thanks for recommending it BH, Bookmarking this for future reference.

Blue Helix said:
Yes, if you add the timer, the output of the timer is fed back into the Dwyer humidity switch pins.  Like I said you have to wire it a little differently.  Basically, you just switch 10 and 11 then you feed the black (hot or narrow prong) from the timer output into 9 and hook the timer's white (neutral) to 7.  That little change makes the humidifier driven by either the humidity switch being on or the timer being on if the humidity switch is off.  I need to make a new diagram for that change, but that's what I am using.  All of this is super easy stuff (I could show someone it in two minutes), but you should double check everything before you plug it in! 

As for the humidity switch, just look for the humidity switch from Dwyers with the probe and you can use any timer you want.


Since 10 is connected to to 9 when humidity switch is off.
I hope i got my wiring diagram correct with attached timer.


Or this is much rather correct to keep the nuetral connection to the humidifier.


Sorry for the crappy edit using my mobile.

Edited by pacmanbreed (08/31/18 10:54 AM)

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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #25425949 -

Do you prep the wbs first Or just mix all the dry ingredients with water and cook?


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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