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OfflineTorey
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn?
    #3831388 - 02/25/05 03:18 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I am looking for constructive thoughts/criticism regarding an idea i have recently taken an interest in.

My goal is to attempt the preparation of birdseed for grain to grain transfer via pasteurization and H2O2 treatment (as opposed to less quantity via pressure cooker sterilization).

Pasteurization will allow the use of a very large pot, and the garbage bag provides a large quantity of grain to be incubated and spawned to bulk subtrate.

0.5mm garbage bag of birdseed pasteurized and treated with H2O2, G2G transfer follows, incubation, and transfer to bulk substrate (pasteurized buffalo dung/straw).

Inspirational source:

"Growing Mushrooms the Easy Way Home Mushroom Cultivation with Hydrogen Peroxide Volume I" by R. Rush Wayne, Ph.D.

Quote:

Traditionally, sawdust cultures have been grown in special plastic bags with microporous filter patches, to allow gas
exchange without letting contaminants gain entry. With peroxide in your fruiting substrate, however, you should be able to
use ordinary trash bags (at a savings of $.50-$.80 per bag) to grow your mushrooms. Evidently the process used to produce
trash bags pasteurizes them to the point that they do not harbor significant live-organism contamination. If you do use
plastic trash bags, I recommend using the kind that are made from high density plastic, 0.5 mil thickness or less. These bags
are thin enough that oxygen can diffuse through them, so that the cultures can be grown to maturity with the bags sealed
closed by twist ties. Also, the thicker, softer bags are apparently made from PVC, which can leave estrogenic residues in
the mushroom cultures, and certain of these softer bags are impregnated with fungicides.




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Offlineliveby
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Torey]
    #3831415 - 02/25/05 03:24 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

h202 is a precaution not a sterilizer


--------------------

http://www.bruceeisner.com/ -Creating a Sensible Culture


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: liveby]
    #3832523 - 02/25/05 12:55 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

It can only work to keep things sterile such as WOOD. Notice that only wood is talked about through his guide (minus some recent updates on it working with straw or something a little but no where near as well as wood).

If you add h202 to grain it will break down the peroxide quickly. You could only use that tek with wood and wood lovers (like outdoor azures or cyans, not cubies) and those are quite difficult to grow for someone very experienced in this field.


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineTorey
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3838716 - 02/26/05 09:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

How much H2O2 would be adequate to supplement to a pint jar of (dominantly w.millet) birdseed, post pressure-cooking?


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Torey]
    #3839036 - 02/26/05 11:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if you don't pc birdseed it gets contaminated with mold or etc so easily... at least for myself.

Just put some birdseed in water and let it soak for a few days, you will see bacteria or mold growing in the bag within 2-3 days and it smells horrid......(breathing spores yummy!)


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


Edited by Fluxburn (02/26/05 11:19 PM)


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OfflineTorey
consciousparadox

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 82
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Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3839372 - 02/27/05 12:27 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

A friend plans to add peroxide to post-pressure-cooked birdseed to prepare for G2GT. 20mL H2O2 : 454g grain will be attempted.

Will a 0.5mm garbage bag withstand pressure cooking temperatures? (115C)

To contribute further to this thread:

Quote:

Therefore the general rule is: all culture materials and containers must be
pasteurized before adding peroxide or peroxide-containing medium to them; culture materials that contain raw, unprocessed
organic matter must be pressure-sterilized to destroy the peroxide-decomposing enzymes. And a corollary: any water used
without pressure-sterilization in peroxide-treated medium should be clear and free of obvious particles, since any bits of
organic or even inorganic material introduced with the water could harbor live contamination and/or peroxide-decomposing
enzymes that would not be destroyed by pasteurization.



Quote:

Since peroxide becomes active as a bleach above 60oC, it will decompose
readily when in contact with complex organic materials at this temperature and above. So wait until your medium has
cooled -- if not to room temperature, then at least to a temperature that is comfortable to the touch--before adding peroxide.



Quote:

Here's how I make soft white wheat spawn:
1) I weigh out 7 oz of grain into a 26 oz jar.
2) I then add an excess of hot tap water and a tiny amount of baking soda to offset the acidity of my tap water.
3) Next, I steep the grain at near-boiling temperatures for an hour or two to swell the kernels, draining off the excess water
when the grain has about doubled in volume.
4) Finally, I sterilize the jar of grain in a pressure cooker for an hour. The exact length of time you use will depend on your
grain and pressure cooker.
5) When the jar has cooled, I add 10 mls 3% hydrogen peroxide (or 20 mls peroxide for every 16 oz grain initially added),
then shake well to coat the grain.
(If you make your spawn by
adding a measured amount of water, remember to subtract the volume of peroxide from the water you add, to achieve the
correct moisture content).



Quote:

Peroxide will
provide little or no benefit with substrates that still have a great deal of biological activity, such as compost, or pasteurized
straw, or fresh wood chips that have been treated with boiling water.




--------------------
peace and love!


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Torey]
    #3839435 - 02/27/05 12:43 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Torey said:Will a 0.5mm garbage bag withstand pressure cooking temperatures? (115C)




NOPE


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Offlinechocbruce
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Registered: 11/30/04
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: agar]
    #3839455 - 02/27/05 12:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

what percentage H2o2 Will that be??

Normal stuff from a store is 10%

35% is available online if you poke around. 35% may stop the grains from becoming too wet.


--------------------
I look for answers and present ideas, but in no way shape or form endorse, or partake in, growing, or manufacture of substances, or plants, or any specie that is illegal in your neck of the woods. I do however, tear the tags off of my mattresses. Be warned.


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Offlinepenlight438094
1 spliff 16.1g +1 man alone =Blitzed!
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Registered: 10/01/04
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: agar]
    #3839456 - 02/27/05 12:48 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

you know that is the first Ive seen 5 empty shrooms, funny


--------------------
Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0



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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: penlight438094]
    #3839571 - 02/27/05 01:22 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Pen you're such an asshole, if i was gay or a girl i'd so hug you, you're fucking great :thumbup: , seriously, i really wish that these noobs would just read...a tiny bit would help...and yea...huh...-5.....

Dude....endospores need to be germinated...soak 24h's, simmer til they burst a bit and pc at 15psi for an hour and 15 mintues.....and putting h202 in your medium....

-Gnostic


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3839595 - 02/27/05 01:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Never use H202 for any type of cloning, sterilization, or anything else that involves mycelical growth. It only slows things down . It's completely useless for mycological growth. It should only be used for sanitation purposes. Besides, H202 has no damaging effect on Trich.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3839601 - 02/27/05 01:27 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

O my apoligies, finger 11 has visited you I see. that sucks, but i'm not giving you any shroomies, not till you like....read...Gl though

-Gnostic


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3839610 - 02/27/05 01:31 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hum, yah the endospores or whatever are way better if you simmer them first. First it kills the endospores, second it expands the seed to a level that will remain constant after that point.


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3839625 - 02/27/05 01:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hey hot, salt's best for tric.

-Gnostic


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3839635 - 02/27/05 01:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Good luck.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Hotnuts]
    #3839676 - 02/27/05 01:50 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Wow we got h202 completly usless for mycelial growth (wrong, great antiseptic for liquid cultures or agar) and simmering to germinate endospores (instead of soaking). We also got hydrogen peroxide being noramlly sold at 10% in stores (instead of 3%). Would anyone else like to add some mixinformation to the thread? Its getting good now...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (02/27/05 05:12 PM)


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3839701 - 02/27/05 02:01 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Great for agar only IMHO. In his ? he asks about using it for grain sterilization. Not going to work.


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OfflineTorey
consciousparadox

Registered: 11/11/02
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Hotnuts]
    #3839791 - 02/27/05 02:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I request only constructive replies and/or criticism. Please, do not waste your time displaying an eruption of attitudes.

3% h2o2 is available here. H2O2 will be supplemented at the previously stated volume post pressure cooking, as a secondary precaution while exposing the jars to filtered air.

24 hour soaked grain? who ever implied that i would do anything but.

I will not add to this thread until attempts have been made.


--------------------
peace and love!


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: Torey]
    #3839801 - 02/27/05 02:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, then why don't you go back and read what the MODS say, lemme quote this, brb

Edit: Everything that you have asked can be anwsered w/o posting, Have fun, i'm done with this thread, so should everyone else...
:bitch: :bye: :ban: :strokebeard: :shroomer: :muppet:
O and by the way, Here's ANOTHER Quote....your to be exact

"I am looking for constructive thoughts/criticism regarding an idea i have recently taken an interest in."
BYE


Please read the Shroomery Cultivation FAQ before asking questions in this forum...many of the answers are already in the Shroomery Cultivation FAQ.

In addition to this the Shroomery Grow Section offers probably more information than you will ever need.

You can also access the FAQ by a javascript cascading menu.

If you need help with some mushroom and mycological terms, check The Shroomery Mushroom Glossary and The Shroomery Mycology Glossary.

We also have a Mushroom Cultivation Chat on our IRC server.

If you still can't find your answer there please post your question to be answered by one of the many nice members of the Community.

Please only ask "GROWING" questions in the Mushroom Cultivation forum.
If you post a question that is off topic (not growing related)...it will be moved to the proper forum it belongs in...or the post will be closed.

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Here are some usefull short cuts to cultivation and hunting sections at the shroomery.

I think they speak for themselves:
www.shroomery.org/start
www.shroomery.org/grow
www.shroomery.org/find
www.shroomery.org/basic
www.shroomery.org/advanced
www.shroomery.org/agar
www.shroomery.org/casing
www.shroomery.org/bulk
www.shroomery.org/pftek
www.shroomery.org/incubators
www.shroomery.org/gourmet
www.shroomery.org/faq
www.shroomery.org/glossary
www.shroomery.org/glossary2


Edited by IGnosticAbhorI (02/27/05 02:45 AM)


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Garbage bag, Birdseed, & H2O2 = bulk spawn? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3839877 - 02/27/05 03:08 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Please don't waste a lot of hard work by adding H202 to your work post pc'ing. It will only ruin it. Please trust me on this. I've been through al the H202 bull and it just doesn't work. Go for it if you want, but it will not work.


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