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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #25332037 - 07/17/18 05:01 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I got my sterile swabs from Amazon- two per package- a huge supply very cheap.


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25332376 - 07/17/18 08:20 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Two days after spawning. These pans seem pretty aggressive. Coming through the casing really
quick.



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Offlinemullugh
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
    #25332646 - 07/17/18 10:41 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asura said:
Two days after spawning. These pans seem pretty aggressive. Coming through the casing really
quick.





Lovely rack and very cool avatar image thing. I like the cut of your jib


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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
    #25332959 - 07/18/18 03:54 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Is that a really big martha/greenhouse, or just open air fruited?


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ManifoldPrime]
    #25333091 - 07/18/18 06:45 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ManifoldPrime said:
Is that a really big martha/greenhouse, or just open air fruited?




Open air and constant FAE. It's in a small walk in shower that's never been used.
It's an experiment of sorts. There is a glass door with a small opening at the top that I used
to pipe in fog for humidity.


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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
    #25333831 - 07/18/18 02:54 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Very nice! Do you monitor RH ? Whats it normally like if its being fogged?


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: ManifoldPrime]
    #25334033 - 07/18/18 04:46 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I use a willhi controller to drive a bucket fogger. Right now it's between 94-98 humidity.


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Offlinehazelnut
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Asura]
    #25334656 - 07/18/18 10:40 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

These 3 WBS jars were inoculated 10 days ago with pan cyan aussie liquid culture, using the Blenderless liquid inoculate Tek. The agar culture was a bit older than I'd hoped by the time I used it. The plate had been 100% colonized for around 7 days before I used it (I couldn't smell much of a mushroom smell from the emptied Pasty Plate after the inoculation – worried that it may have dried/died in places). I think this why the mycelium didn't grow out of all of the grains.

How do these look? The mycelium looks quite whispy and faint in places.

One jar is less colonized than the other 2 (maybe because I poured less LI in).

Should I shake all the jars and allow to re-colonize? (in order to even out the colonization across all 3 jars)

Also, the agar culture had started to show little white dots on the surface. Unfortunately it's hard to show this through the pasty plate lid. I think this is knotting, or at least not a bad sign, I hope..?



Edited by hazelnut (07/18/18 10:44 PM)


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: hazelnut]
    #25335803 - 07/19/18 04:38 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

As far as contams in the jars, there are a few areas that look suspect but that might just be hollow areas between the grains- as long as there are no colors other than the white mycelia and the grains. If you do see colors in even just one of the jars- i'd throw them ALL out if they came from the same liquid inoculate.

I like to shake the jars when they are about 30% colonized. The first two jars-look close to 100% from the pic are more than ready to be shook. The third jar looks like its the optimum time to shake now- so shake that one as well.
Another option is to just skip shaking the first two jars  only shake the third,that'll speed up the 3rd jar relative to the first two- but I prefer the first option.
IMO-its not optimal that the third jar is so far behind the first two, but ok if you need to spawn them all together. Better to spawn the third separately. Normally I like to let the mycelia consolidate ~5days after it looks like its at 100% but if you want to spawn them all together, spawn them all as soon as the third reaches 100%.

When you spawn them make sure to give them a sniff- they shouldn't smell anything other than sweet almondy, grainy or no smell.

Aussies produce wispy mycelia- so no worries there.


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InvisibleNewbie8998

Registered: 06/22/18
Posts: 138
Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25336213 - 07/19/18 09:15 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

This is a great thread def following in order to help my first pan cyan grow!!


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Offlinehazelnut
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Newbie8998]
    #25336997 - 07/20/18 12:20 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks so much mary!

I shook all the jars. I was trying to get away without shaking at all (I'm on a short time frame), but I think it's better this way. Also a fast/slow recovery could be an indication as to whether any contams are present.

I don't think there's any strange coloration. There's some small chunks of squished yellow pieces, but I think that's just pieces of agar from the LI.

:mushroom2:


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OfflineDr. Psilocybin
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #25337385 - 07/20/18 04:57 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the warm welcome pacman!


Here’s just a quick update on current growth of my pan cyan Jamaican...

The below pic is a first transfer plate (p1) from the germination plate, all three P1 plates are grown to the edges now:

Does anyone know what causes the mycelium to grow with that concentric ring shockwave-type pattern? I don’t recall seeing that growth pattern when doing cubes on agar. Just curious here...

I’ve noticed from these plates that the myc grows either a little bit flatter and thinner, or a little bit poofier/thicker (I think I read Mary mention this in one of her pan cyan journals); so far I’ve been selecting the most poofy and vigorous growth to transfer.

Here is one of the P2 plates:


Here is one of the P3 plates, the most current ones (looks like I need to transfer them tonight):



Here is a bonus pic of a germination plate that I fucked up, it’s the only plate out of 14 that is blatantly contamd, all other plates seems to have only beautiful white myc of the same type. I’m not experienced enough yet to tell if contams are present based off of myc growth patterns. Yummy, delicious green spores:


This was actually the germination plate that I felt most confident about my sterile technique post inoculation :lolz0rz:

That contam area seems to have the shockwave type growth pattern as well. Not sure if that is just a pure mold colony, or if the mold was intertwined with the mushroom myc, it’s hard to tell. I think the myc in that area was slightly off color compared to the surrounding healthy white pan cyan myc.


Edited by Dr. Psilocybin (07/20/18 05:29 PM)


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Dr. Psilocybin]
    #25337468 - 07/20/18 05:41 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Different grow patterns- reflect different phenotypes. Try to take the flatter as well as the more cottony to fruiting.

Weird growth patterns of multispore Jams- my take is not really light cycles as much as a maturation process of the mycelia as different forms interact and compete for dominance. Eventually that settles down as you select for the growth form that you want.

Quote:

mary fairchild said:
Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Damn, very impressive grows! I've tried germinating my pan cyans a few times and only got very thin, wispy growth which I thought was common in pans. Yours is so thick.




This mycelia can get pretty thick & cottony or more fibrous-depending on the trait you select for on agar:
 




Plenty of Pan cyans produce a more wispy form. This particular strain that was first collected in Jamaica- has been circulating the shroom growing community for a while- just happens to produce a more cottony form.
The longer a particular strain has been circulating, the more inbred it gets- we may be inadvertantly selecting for a form that likes to overlay.

Evidence i have seen looks like these different phenotypes (growth forms) that are seen within the Pan. cyan species have no bearing on how well they fruit.


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Invisibleeldearmano
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25337522 - 07/20/18 06:16 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

this is from a spore print just kinda smeared around..  i can't tell what's going on though.


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OfflineDr. Psilocybin
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: mary fairchild]
    #25338005 - 07/20/18 10:03 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

This is your thread that piqued my interest in gravitating towards the thicker growth
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24820407

Quote:

mary fairchild said:
Conclude
Two agar selections from the same print grown under the same conditions-the flatter phenotype produced some moderate overlay before it put out primordia; the thicker selection did not overlay at all- it went straight to making shrooms. The flatter form on agar behaved consistently with the results i've had in the past.






Yes, I agree it would be wise to take all phenotypes to fruiting to increase chances of success, and for science. Like you say these jams overall seem cottony so the difference can be difficult to tell. I was just aiming for what looked like the healthiest, whitest, most vigorous growth, as my current goal is to just minimize chances of contams and maximize chances of fruits :mushroom2:.

Quote:

mary fairchild said:
we may be inadvertantly selecting for a form that likes to overlay.





Do we know if overlay is purely genetic? Perhaps it could be environmental, or a combination of both. Since the early pages of this thread, it seems like nobody really knows, unless I missed something. If it is genetic, would it be possible to eliminate that trait over time through selective shroom breeding?


Edited by Dr. Psilocybin (07/20/18 10:12 PM)


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Offlineacidninja
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Dr. Psilocybin]
    #25338594 - 07/21/18 08:22 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. Psilocybin said:
This is your thread that piqued my interest in gravitating towards the thicker growth
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24820407

Quote:

mary fairchild said:
Conclude
Two agar selections from the same print grown under the same conditions-the flatter phenotype produced some moderate overlay before it put out primordia; the thicker selection did not overlay at all- it went straight to making shrooms. The flatter form on agar behaved consistently with the results i've had in the past.






Yes, I agree it would be wise to take all phenotypes to fruiting to increase chances of success, and for science. Like you say these jams overall seem cottony so the difference can be difficult to tell. I was just aiming for what looked like the healthiest, whitest, most vigorous growth, as my current goal is to just minimize chances of contams and maximize chances of fruits :mushroom2:.

Quote:

mary fairchild said:
we may be inadvertantly selecting for a form that likes to overlay.





Do we know if overlay is purely genetic? Perhaps it could be environmental, or a combination of both. Since the early pages of this thread, it seems like nobody really knows, unless I missed something. If it is genetic, would it be possible to eliminate that trait over time through selective shroom breeding?




From what Ive seen and gained I'd say its purely genetics that cause growth traits, ie overlay; swim made a post on another mush cult site testing pan jams in 2 trays side by side, exact same spawn/spawn-sub ratio, same chamber, one with a pasteurised peat/verm casing and the other without. They performed evenly, colonised at same rate, he cased the one tray after it fully coled and left the other going, the uncased tray pinned in clusters whilst  the peat in other tray provided the moisture and structure for a better pinset but it did the same thing, pinned in clusters, and swim only counted a dozen or so more in the cased tray after harvest :shrug:

Ps: Also thinking about doing cpoo/verm in an unbodified tub, I'm wondering since its unbod'd if its worth casing or not, since Im just flipping the lids on all my tubs now, bored of ruining them with holes and poly etc, but would it = too much fae? Im still using the trusty bin liner tho I can never get my subs too stay in the shape of the tub, but they fucking love the fresh air so . . . :shrug::shrug::shrug:


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Invisiblemary fairchild
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: acidninja]
    #25338652 - 07/21/18 08:57 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Environmental conditions are not causing overlay because I have fruited two different selections side by side in a greenhouse (the same conditions), one overlaid and the other one didn't.

It seems like people are having more overlay problems with Jams than before. I think its still possible to avoid overlay but you have to be lucky or grow multiple agar selections. Two people that I sent Jam prints to have had overlay problems. Better to get your Jam prints/syringes from someone else.

Maybe this particular variety of Pan. cyan. that I suppose was originally collected in Jamaica has been circulating around the shroom community so long that its range of alleles (different forms of the same gene) have become too narrow, another term for this is an increase in homozygosity. Easier to work with Pan cyans that are less inbred (newer to cultivation) than to try to select for a particular trait.

If I lived in an area where wild Pans grew- i’d probably be collecting lots of Pan prints.


Edited by mary fairchild (07/30/18 04:54 PM)


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Offlinewhitehawk
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #25339742 - 07/21/18 09:26 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

this is amazing


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OfflineFishLevelMidnight
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: whitehawk]
    #25339748 - 07/21/18 09:32 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Any chance pans will fruit in 70 F?


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Official Copelandia/Panaeolus Thread [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25340574 - 07/22/18 12:53 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Overlay is a bitch!

Have a few pins here that made it past, but mary, I'm inclined to believe you and give up on
these particular jams. I think it's time to move on to the Aussie's.

This entire tray was covered in overlay 2 days after fruiting. I scraped the
overlay off with a fork and recased it. What you are seeing in the pic, is the overlay coming
back again, full force, two days later.



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