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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: Icelander]
    #11635745 -

So you agree that just because one does not have 'total' knowledge, one should always nonetheless trust ones mind to be competent to judge, relate and act in accordance with the facts of reality?

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11636003 -

Absolutely. What else can I logically do.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: Icelander]
    #11636326 -

Good, well then, we both agree that philosophy has to do with REALITY and how to live in reality to the maximum benefit to ourselves?

Anything outside of that is not philosophy and is just 'fun imaginings' and rightfully should reside in the M&P forum?!

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11636515 -

RationalEgo said:
deCypher said:
Which axioms are those?  You can't get anywhere from a tautology.


Go back and find them, they are on the previous page.


Jesus Christ, besides tautologies I don't see any axioms you've listed, and it seems like quite a few other posters here don't see 'em either.  How hard is it to copy/paste if you've actually stated some non-tautological axioms?  And if you're talking about the Objectivist axioms then there are several different formulations of these... it wouldn't hurt to explicitly state those things you believe to be self-evidently true that are not analytic truths, especially because those things are the whole point of this thread.  :facepalm:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: deCypher]
    #11636543 -

The whole point of this thread was not to simply lay down axioms but to demonstrate the error of Post-Modern, ivory tower Obscurantism.

Here are the axioms and a thorough explanation of them:

"Existence exists—and the act of grasping that statement implies two corollary axioms: that something exists which one perceives and that one exists possessing consciousness, consciousness being the faculty of perceiving that which exists.

If nothing exists, there can be no consciousness: a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms. A consciousness conscious of nothing but itself is a contradiction in terms: before it could identify itself as consciousness, it had to be conscious of something. If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness.

Whatever the degree of your knowledge, these two—existence and consciousness—are axioms you cannot escape, these two are the irreducible primaries implied in any action you undertake, in any part of your knowledge and in its sum, from the first ray of light you perceive at the start of your life to the widest erudition you might acquire at its end. Whether you know the shape of a pebble or the structure of a solar system, the axioms remain the same: that it exists and that you know it.

To exist is to be something, as distinguished from the nothing of nonexistence, it is to be an entity of a specific nature made of specific attributes. Centuries ago, the man who was—no matter what his errors —the greatest of your philosophers, has stated the formula defining the concept of existence and the rule of all knowledge: A is A. A thing is itself. You have never grasped the meaning of his statement. I am here to complete it: Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification." - AR

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11636636 -

Interesting.  I agree for the most part with that paragraph but I do have a minor quibble:

RationalEgo said:
If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness.


Exist in what sense?  Anything that I am perceiving exists in that it is an existing sensation; I can still be perfectly conscious even if my entire sensory field is an hallucination.  Moreover, it is impossible to to determine with absolute certainty whether what we perceive exists objectively.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Verifiable Truth and Proof Vs Post-Modern Nonsense [Re: RationalEgo]
    #11636722 -

RationalEgo said:
Good, well then, we both agree that philosophy has to do with REALITY and how to live in reality to the maximum benefit to ourselves?

Anything outside of that is not philosophy and is just 'fun imaginings' and rightfully should reside in the M&P forum?!



:lol: Want me to say it one more time, just so you can make sure I'm not going to pull the ol switcheroo?

Yes I agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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