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OfflineZahid
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Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Al Haq (The Truth)
    #828060 - 08/19/02 01:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I hope this helps you understand that reason and logic behind faith in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. A friend of mine at a Muslim forum authored it.

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Muslim, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Of course! "

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

The professor grins knowingly and considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and

you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them, Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you

could ...in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't.

[No answer.]


"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Muslim who died of cancer even

though he prayed to God to heal him. How is this God good? Hmmm?

Can you answer that one?"

[No answer]


The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?"

He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student

time to relax.


In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones.

Let's start again, young fella." "Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.

"From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man turns to the smirking,
student audience.

"I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen."

He turns back to the Muslim. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?

[No answer]


"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?

All the terrible things - do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them? "

[No answer]


The professor suddenly shouts at his student.

"WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!

"The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Muslim's face.

In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He, son?"

[No answer]


The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.

Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom

like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues,

"How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?"

The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world.

"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all

the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all

over the world, isn't it, young man?"

[No answer]


"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?"

Pause.

"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers,

"Is God good?"

[No answer]


"Do you believe in God, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks.

"Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses

you use to identify and observe the world around you.

"You have never seen God, Have you? "

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your God?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God or smelt your

God...infact, do you have any sensory perception of your God

whatsoever?"

[No answer]


"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling.

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable

protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to

that, son? Where is your God now?"

[The student doesn't answer]

"Sit down, please."

The Muslim sits...Defeated.



Another Muslim raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Muslim in the vanguard!

Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The Muslim looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are

making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

The second Muslim continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more

heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat

but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees

below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to

go colder than -458 - - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to

describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can

measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the

opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."


Silence.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness?
What are you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir.

Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something.

You can have low light, normal light, bright light,

flashing light but if you have no light constantly you have

nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it?

That's the meaning we use to define the word.

In reality, Darkness isn't.

If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it.

Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"


Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him.

This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling

us what your point is, young man?"


"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed

to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!""

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"

The class is all ears.


"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control.

Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.


"You are working on the premise of duality," the Muslim explains.

"That for example there is life and then there's death;

a good God and a bad God.

You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure.

Sir, science cannot even explain a thought.

It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen,

much less fully understood them.


To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist

as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it."


The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a

neighbor who has been reading it.

"Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts,

professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality.

Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice.

Is there such a thing as evil?"

The Muslim pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color.

He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.


The Muslim continues.

"If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is,

then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil.

What is that work, God is accomplishing?

Islam tells us it is to see if each one of us will choose good over evil."


The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view

this matter as having anything to do with any choice;

as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other

theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."


"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world

is probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Muslim replies.

"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week!

Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,

yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"


The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his

student a silent, stony stare.


"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution

at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor,

are you not teaching your opinion, sir?

Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"


"I will overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion.

Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.


"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin.

"Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena.

Science too is a premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.

The Muslim remains standing until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,

may I give you an example of what I mean?"


The professor wisely keeps silent. The Muslim looks around the room.


"Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen air, Oxygen,

molecules, atoms, the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out in laughter.

The Muslim points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain...

felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?"

No one appears to have done so. The Muslim shakes his head sadly.

"It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the

professor's brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of

empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science,

I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."



Al Haq (The Truth)

In regards to Sclorch?s post last night, which I read before going to bed, I am going to attempt to explain why we believe, and what happens after we embrace Allah.

I'd really like to know what a believer experiences. If it would change my views, then aren't you doing yourself a disservice by witholding this information?

While none of the physical senses we are given in the world can detect God, there is an inner nature within all humans that incline certain people to seek refuge in Allah. According to Islam, Allah guides only whom He wills into the truth, while the others are considered unworthy of being guided for obvious reasons. From my personal experience, I did not experience God until this past year when I embraced Islam. I was raised a Christian in the United Church as a child, but I never considered myself Christian because I didn?t believe in it, and I came to hate it for awhile in my early teens when I was very anti-religion. While it?s difficult to explain in words what believers experience, it can be described as true peace, uncomparable to any other state of mind that exists. I approached God by embracing His mercy for one thing. In other words, believers experience the truth. They see the truth with their inner nature, it's indescribable.

Why did I convert to Islam? I was interested in the religion, and on a mushroom trip it was almost as if Allah had decided to guide me into the truth immediately. I describe it literally as a revelation, or a miracle from Allah that guides those who listen to their inner nature. Now, what I experienced on mushrooms occurred about seven times since, the revelation exactly the same, all were on high dose non-game trips, and the presence of God existed throughout these perils, external from me. There is also prayer. When a believer remembers Allah, the more the better, the more at peace he will be. Have you ever seen a Christian cry with joy? Or on CNN, during the last Hajj, an old woman was shown praying, crying softly. These people are experiencing Allah.

When someone believes in Allah and His Messengers, God allows them to see the truth with their souls. This is a miracle experienced by every believer, and this is why people of deen are preachy, steadfast in belief and prayer. The faith is not blind, and because of this, a very very large portion of the globe are either Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. The two main faiths that Allah has established as guidance for mankind are Christianity and Islam. Both of these religions are clashing for a specific reason that only Allah knows. Everything in the world today is structured in by Allah so that it is either very easy for a soul to surrender to Allah, or very difficult if they are decieved by shaytaan.


Don't tell me about the AFTERLIFE. I want to know why believing (in Islam) is so necessary in THIS LIFE. How does it change my life for the better? I mean, do I start to feel much happier than I feel now (BTW, I'm pretty happy right now)?

Sclorch, if you were to open your heart to Allah, you would feel more than happy. Like I said before, it is a feeling of true peace that can?t be compared to any other feeling. Why is Islam so necessary? Besides the aspect of the afterlife, the lifestyle of surrendering to Allah is extremely beneficial in the world. Allah guides believers with ease throughout life, with small tests on the road, but never the hardship the disbelievers go through in life (this is how the kufr only benefit the believers by rejecting Allah). You would never look back if you experienced what believers experience. You don?t just blindly believe, but with belief comes the revealed truth. You see everything for what it is. This is very hard to actually describe in words.

infidelGOD wrote:
hehe, now you know how it feels.

Maybe. I can tolerate a Christian telling me I'm going to hell. I understand profoundly they are experiencing Allah, and that is why they remain Christians.

Traveller wrote:
ok then! ALLAH the all merciful forgives all AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE, yes? thus those who BELIEVE in allah and go on to slaughter as many people as they can before committing suicide will be forgiven and go to paradise, while those who try to live good lives and do not believe will burn in the fires of hell?

The 9/11 hijackers are surely doomed to Jahannum. Yes, they did believe, but they all committed suicide, so therefore Paradise is forbidden to them. They also killed other Muslims, along with other women, children, and non-combatants. If you kill unjustly in Islam, the family members of the victim must forgive you first before Allah forgives you for the murder. While murdering carries a heavy punishment in the next life, the act does not forbid Paradise to someone. Mind you, it carries a very long sentence in Hell.

Islam is very hard, if not impossible to contradict. Unlike Christianity where science often conflicts with the scripture, science is supported within Islam.

A good web site where you can compare science and Islam is http://www.it-is-truth.org


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OfflineFlusH
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828085 - 08/19/02 01:23 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

-----
A friend of mine at a Muslim forum authored it.
-----

I hate to burst your bubble but unless your friend authored it before computers existed because that sorry has been going around for the past 45 years and instead of "Muslim" I have seen "Christianity" , "Mormon", etc... That is just a template story to use against athiests. I am curious why you feel the need to force your view's on everybody so hard? Why cant you just accept the fact that there are lots of religions out there and everybody is entitled to believe what they want?


--------------------


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828091 - 08/19/02 01:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution

at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor,

are you not teaching your opinion, sir?"

Er. Darwin did observe a form of evolution didn't he...?


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: FlusH]
    #828094 - 08/19/02 01:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I hate to burst your bubble but unless your friend authored it before computers existed because that sorry has been going around for the past 45 years and instead of "Muslim" I have seen "Christianity" , "Mormon", etc... That is just a template story to use against athiests. I am curious why you feel the need to force your view's on everybody so hard? Why cant you just accept the fact that there are lots of religions out there and everybody is entitled to believe what they want?

I only assumed he authored it. He didn't take credit for it, but posted it at the Ummah here: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7022. Great story though. I have a few more.

Sclorch and another shroomerite asked me why we believe what we believe, that's why I made this topic.

Er. Darwin did observe a form of evolution didn't he...?

Darwin had a theory, that was all.


--------------------


Edited by Zahid (08/19/02 01:31 PM)


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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 59
Last seen: 19 years, 26 days
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828119 - 08/19/02 01:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I liked the post (whether it's original or not)

I think that for the most part people object not to your belief in God or even that your a Muslim, but rather to your assertion that only certain religions are genuine and all others are delusion.

I would think that the only evidence you have for this being true is the teachings of your own religion.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: mirror_saw]
    #828173 - 08/19/02 02:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think that for the most part people object not to your belief in God or even that your a Muslim, but rather to your assertion that only certain religions are genuine and all others are delusion.

actually I don't object to any of the above. I object to him because he is ALWAYS RIGHT. no matter what he is ALWAYS RIGHT.

In other words, believers experience the truth.

When someone believes in Allah and His Messengers, God allows them to see the truth with their souls. This is a miracle experienced by every believer,

Sclorch, if you were to open your heart to Allah, you would feel more than happy.

Islam is very hard, if not impossible to contradict

all these statements are not worded as "opinion" They are hard facts as reported by god/ allah/ muhammed/ Buddha's navel lint/ etc.

This is why I object to his posts. Not because he is right or wrong, or that he is a recently converted muslim, but because he is reporting his opinion's as FACTS. everyone else is WRONG!!!!! Praise allah





--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828180 - 08/19/02 02:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

I can tolerate a Christian telling me I'm going to hell. I understand profoundly they are experiencing Allah, and that is why they remain Christians.


This is the very point I was edging towards. Obviously you can accept the fact that there is some sort of higher power, and that sometimes this higher power is expressed differently then you chose to express it. What I still don't understand though is why you insist that your way of exprssing the devine is the 'right' way. And by that I'm referring to your use of terms like kufr, and what have you. The way you've been talking it almost seems like one must believe in 'Allah' and praise his name on high in order to be saved. What does it matter if someone says Allah, or God, or any other name for that matter? They're all just titles used to represent the same entity as far as I'm concerned. People like me aren't religious, not because we aren't spiritual, but because we refuse to get caught up in the whole categoralizationism of religions. So now I ask you this - if someone is a truely spiritual being and is continually striving to make this world a better place for all in it, but never once subjects himself to labeling the devine spiritual pressence that guides his life's actions, does that mean he is condemnd to an eternal life in Hell? Cause the way you're talking, it seems to me like you'd think he would be, simply because he doesn't acknowledge 'Allah' as his savior.


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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OfflineFlusH
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828188 - 08/19/02 02:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I did not mean to sound snapy, even though I totaly sounded like but I am really interested in your level of commitment to your religion. I would love to elaborate on this a bit but super is ready, I will be back in about 2 hours to continue Talk to ya l8tr


--------------------


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Al Haq (part of The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828237 - 08/19/02 02:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid, I wanted only YOUR words (that argument is piss-poor anyways? that?s what we call a Straw Man argument), so next time leave the quotes OUT.
------------------------------

I?ve heard your words. You are incredibly rigid in your beliefs and, as such, not truly open to my points. I?d rather not attempt to argue this rigidity out of you, because if that?s your thing? then that?s just fine. It?s when 95% of your posts force this rigid doctrine down the rest of us posters? throats. I understand that it is a fundamental tenet of your personal belief system to encourage us ?kufr? or ?sinners? or whatever to take the ?true path?.

Why is Islam so necessary? Besides the aspect of the afterlife, the lifestyle of surrendering to Allah is extremely beneficial in the world. Allah guides believers with ease throughout life, with small tests on the road, but never the hardship the disbelievers go through in life (this is how the kufr only benefit the believers by rejecting Allah).

Is it so hard to understand that some of us ?disbelievers? appreciate the hardships in life?
I am not a pleasure-seeking being? I realize that the good comes with the bad. It?s a balance that I?ve realized and have grown accustomed to. I wouldn?t want an easy life that didn?t challenge me but with small tests. BTW, your use of non-specific wording is a common dodging tactic? what non-specific wording, you say? ?Ease? and ?hardship? are quite vague. They seem to say everything? but they really say nothing (horoscopes come to mind).

You would never look back if you experienced what believers experience. You don?t just blindly believe, but with belief comes the revealed truth. You see everything for what it is. This is very hard to actually describe in words.

Another dodge? I asked a question, I get the equivalent of ?you have to experience it in order to understand it?. So, if I never experience it? is that MY fault? I don?t think so. I was a firm believer in Christianity for most of my life. I had NEVER had a religious experience that came close to the spiritual assault on my brain imparted by philosophy and entheogen use. I have no use for bliss. Bliss allows the mind to quit searching (the main reason why I refuse to take MDMA). I?d rather be humbled by hardship any day.

You (and every other religious person) only heard part of Allah?s message? Allah told me that s/he was in the heart of all people with an open mind. Allah told me that heaven is the peace felt when one grabs life by the horns and calms the ego bull with the hope found in uncertainty. Allah told me all this and I listened. The truth is not hidden as many would lead us to believe? no, the truth is that the only knowable absolute is uncertainty itself.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: FlusH]
    #828245 - 08/19/02 02:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

1) from what you've said it sounds like Allah is a personal thing..and that he must be revealed to you...perhaps during a mushroom trip, as in your case. so, how are you supposed to convert people over the internet?

2) your story and everything you said were rather unconvincing. even if i accept your feeble argument that there is a god why should i accept that "Allah" is god and that i shouldn't eat pig meat?

3) don't you realize that all religions are cultural constructs built upon the basic human desire for transcendence. no religion is right, but all religions are reaching for the same thing. we are animals with conscious minds. we are stuck on the razor's edge between animal and god, and we are always reaching higher...grasping for the heavens.

4) religion is for dopes. pursue your spirituality on a solo basis and share what you "learn". stop trying to force your crummy dogma on others. it's boring and trite.


Edited by vaporbrains (08/19/02 02:54 PM)


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OfflineFlusH
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #828256 - 08/19/02 02:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Vaporbrains, are you replying to me or Zahid?


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: FlusH]
    #828260 - 08/19/02 02:58 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid i believe. OR all muslim proseltyzers.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #828301 - 08/19/02 03:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

This is the very point I was edging towards. Obviously you can accept the fact that there is some sort of higher power, and that sometimes this higher power is expressed differently then you chose to express it. What I still don't understand though is why you insist that your way of exprssing the devine is the 'right' way. And by that I'm referring to your use of terms like kufr, and what have you. The way you've been talking it almost seems like one must believe in 'Allah' and praise his name on high in order to be saved. What does it matter if someone says Allah, or God, or any other name for that matter? They're all just titles used to represent the same entity as far as I'm concerned. People like me aren't religious, not because we aren't spiritual, but because we refuse to get caught up in the whole categoralizationism of religions. So now I ask you this - if someone is a truely spiritual being and is continually striving to make this world a better place for all in it, but never once subjects himself to labeling the devine spiritual pressence that guides his life's actions, does that mean he is condemnd to an eternal life in Hell? Cause the way you're talking, it seems to me like you'd think he would be, simply because he doesn't acknowledge 'Allah' as his savior.

Because I believe the Qur'an is the infallible word of Allah (Call him God, Yahweh, Dios, there are many languages on earth and thus many ways to spell God. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God), I believe what is written in it. God has mentioned in the Qur'an constantly what defines belief in God, and what defines hypocrisy. When you say you believe in God, or that God is in us all, while you reject Allah's Messengers, that is defined as hypocrisy. You need to repent your sins to get into Paradise. You can't repent in Buddhism, nor can you repent in Hinduism, Paganism, or other forms of nature based mysticism. While some of these practices use the word God, it is a munafiq belief. If you want to believe God exists as some flowing energy in all living things, go right ahead. But this is not belief in God. The desire of shaytaan is deception. The deception could be anything from believing Hinduism is real to believing you can get away with murder. The desire of shaytaan is to make you doubt the existence of Allah by any means. The disbelievers are cursed because they never repent. With belief comes the ability to repent. Don't ever think you're smarter than shaytaan, he has decieved minds like Sigmund Freud, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, and Tenzin Gyatso.

Please don't ask me why there is a hell, or why Allah punishes disbelievers in it forever. He just does, and He is never unjust in what He does. He created humans with free will. They can pick either good or evil in life. If they recieve no warning of the hereafter, they are ignorant and Paradise is theirs. Today it's different. Nearly the entire world is aware of either Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or all three.

The disbelievers will likely disbelieve until their grave, sad to say. When a person is a fetus, an angel asks Allah If it should breath in a blessed soul or an accursed one into the fetus. God then decides if the new fetus will become a servent of God or a rebel of God based on what He knows of the future. You still have absolute free will, but Allah knows what your future is, that is all. I'm only hoping some of my posts might strike a note with someone.

I do know how preaching sounds to an unbeliever, but they don't see the truth. They won't believe until it's too late.

Why do I talk from perspective that I'm right you're wrong? Because that is reality. When I decided that Islam was true, Allah showed me what the truth is through an indescribable miracle that every believer experiences.


--------------------


Edited by Zahid (08/19/02 03:19 PM)


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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828331 - 08/19/02 03:35 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Too...much...reading....



Can't....go...on...any...longer.......gguuuhhhH!!!

*flops dead*



-that was my brain talking.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828342 - 08/19/02 03:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Why do I talk from perspective that I'm right you're wrong? Because that is reality. When I decided that Islam was true, Allah showed me what the truth is through an indescribable miracle that every believer experiences

Oh My Fucking Unholy Shit On an Ham and Mustard Sammich. I cannot believe I just read that. wow, anyway...

The desire of shaytaan is deception. The deception could be anything from believing Hinduism is real to believing you can get away with murder. The desire of shaytaan is to make you doubt the existence of Allah by any means.

Maybe the desire of shaytaan is to make you believe in allah when shaytaan knows for a fact that muhommad was a schizophrenic...

Imagine for an instant, if shaytaan or My Lord and Master as us satanists call him (LOL) What If Satan has written all these religious books to corrupt feeble minds and make them stop thinking for themselves. Maybe the word of god is the mushroom, or the waterfall, or the insects buzzing and chirping. Maybe these books don't hold the answers you seek but only hold the exact wrong answer to the question. I have used this arguement before and have never been given a satisfactory answer. Remember shataan is the master of lies and deception. If he doesn't want you to see you won't see. And before you reply just ask yourself.

What if?



--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
Not here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/01
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828348 - 08/19/02 03:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I'm convinced. Sign me up for this Islam shit.


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #828358 - 08/19/02 03:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

it's ok that you didn't reply to me Zahid. my post was just like all of your posts...propaganda...you can't reply to propaganda except by generating your own propaganda. gibberish mills grind on forever. fools falling into the abyss of time. the clown is laughing. the homeless buddha is smiling. annihilation.


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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

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Re: Al Haq (part of The Truth) [Re: Sclorch]
    #828395 - 08/19/02 04:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

=the truth is that the only knowable absolute is uncertainty itself.=



Agreed.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
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Re: Al Haq (part of The Truth) [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #828455 - 08/19/02 04:43 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

the truth is that the only knowable absolute is uncertainty itself

I think perhaps Descartes could add one more certainty to the list.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Al Haq (part of The Truth) [Re: mirror_saw]
    #828468 - 08/19/02 04:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think perhaps Descartes could add one more certainty to the list.

I think I know what you mean, therefore I am pretty sure you're cool.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineInsomniac
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828521 - 08/19/02 05:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Ok I perused that site you mentioned and I happened to come across this statement:

Besides, Allah comes to our aid through the many Messengers and Revelations He has sent down to humanity.

Then I noticed something in one of your posts and it got me thinking:

If they recieve no warning of the hereafter, they are ignorant and Paradise is theirs.

How is sending messengers and revelations aiding us if salvation was already ours beforehand? If everybody was just allowed to stay ignorant then we'd all be in paradise. I don't see Allah's great plan here, sry


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828802 - 08/19/02 07:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

How can the room grow cold? There isn't any such a thing!

Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science,
I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."

Apprently this misguided student has no concept of scientific extraoplation which is considered valid and has stood the test of time.

Every single human cadaver that has had it's head autopsied has beeen shown to have a brain. The professor is a human, ergo...

Not to mention CAT scans, MRIs, EEGs, etc. Your Muz is apparently quite ignorant of modern brain-measuring tools.

I want Professor Schlorch, not some spineless teacher that folds upon hearing poorly-formed arguments!




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #828809 - 08/19/02 07:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #828818 - 08/19/02 07:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In case you haven't noticed Swami, Zahid evades giving direct answers to the likes of Sclorch. It is easier for him to cut and paste in his posts and his thought processes, which are filled with mythical beings in mythical situations.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #828838 - 08/19/02 07:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

One time a was riding a unicorn (or was it a unicycle?) and the mysterious voice of Allah Fatwah spoke to me and said, "Teach the stupid infidels so that they may not perish in udder darkness" (Hey, how's a cow get in this stream of conscienceness). Then I mounted my steed (or was it my goat) and took off on my mission of mercy (to teach the infidels or kill them, I can't remember which).



Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #828843 - 08/19/02 07:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

What the... LOL!


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #829116 - 08/19/02 09:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I suppose nothing is definate iether- it's all a matter of preception. This can get really messy, next phase is stating definations of good and evil, religion and science, etc.

I don't know how exactly a computer works, but I know it works because I'm typing and it shows up on my monator. I don't know if there are really other planets in this solar system, because I've never seen them. I don't really know that any history described in all the history books even occured- because I haven't witnessed it happen. How do I know If you people really exist? I really have no scientific proof that even I exist- Maybe my life is one big dream.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
Registered: 08/16/02
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Re: Al Haq (part of The Truth) [Re: Sclorch]
    #830218 - 08/20/02 12:26 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think I know what you mean



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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #830497 - 08/20/02 02:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I know unicorns exist - I rode one in the 60s!


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #830510 - 08/20/02 03:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid, that is a weak argument for the existence of God. And your post doesn't explain why we should "submit" to Islam.
Isn't submitting to God enough? Why complicate the process with so many rules and meaningless rituals of religion?

If you are promoting Islam (that is your purpose isn't it?) then do just that. Don't promote Islam by bashing Christianity, Judaism, Science and everything else that disagrees with your worldview. Don't tell me how I'm gonna burn in hell. Tell me what is so great about Islam.



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OfflineZahid
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #830889 - 08/20/02 06:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Evolving:

In case you haven't noticed Swami, Zahid evades giving direct answers to the likes of Sclorch. It is easier for him to cut and paste in his posts and his thought processes, which are filled with mythical beings in mythical situations.

The story I copied and pasted in my post was supposed to give some insight why we believe, but there is no real reason why believers truly believe. Allah guides whom He wills into the truth. I can't give Swami, or you the answer you're looking for. I can only agrue logic and experience, that is what I am limited to because God does not allow Himself to be proven or disproven. By logic, if God did not exist I would never experience what I have experienced. You may see it from a different perspective: "Zahid believes in Paradise, that must be what he is experiencing" but it falls short of the truth what I have experienced. I desire the reward of the hereafter, not the reward of the world.

infidelGOD:

Zahid, that is a weak argument for the existence of God. And your post doesn't explain why we should "submit" to Islam.

As believers, we look for proof of the existence of God in the world around us. Every aspect of existence tells a believer God exists, without a doubt. Unbelievers don't look at the world around them for proof of non existence in the manner believers look at the world. Instead of listening to revelation from God, they listen to those who don't believe. Be it Sigmund Freud (Whom I like to think of as an expert at kufr psychology), Charles Darwin, or your shroomer buddy.

Isn't submitting to God enough? Why complicate the process with so many rules and meaningless rituals of religion?

Why is it complicated to obey God? Allah hates evil. He forbids it to those who believe. The more righteous you are, the more rewards you will get. Meaningless rituals? If you're referring to Muslims praying five times a day, we do this to remember Allah. The more we remember God, the more at peace we feel. Look at the verse in my title.

If you are promoting Islam (that is your purpose isn't it?) then do just that. Don't promote Islam by bashing Christianity, Judaism, Science and everything else that disagrees with your worldview. Don't tell me how I'm gonna burn in hell. Tell me what is so great about Islam.

I do not bashing Christianity, or Judaism. I have great respect for Christians and Jews because they worship the same God I do, only they follow the teachings of an older messenger. My father is a Christian, along with a few friends of mine. What is so great Islam? Prayer (rememberance of God) is an amazing feeling. If you accept Islam, you also get to visit Mecca for the Hajj. You are always at a feeling of peace, if Islam is accepted. Muslims are very close to eachother, referring to one another as brother and sister, greeting one another with the word Salaams, which means peace. As a Muslim you get to wear stylish hats called kufis, wear Pakistani clothing (if you choose), learn the Arabic language throughout your life, and if duty calls, you might get the chance to get martyred in Allah's cause fighting oppressors (in a proper manner of course)..and I'm not talking about Osama's version of jihad, but Muhammad's. As a Muslim you can have up to four wives, given you treat them all equally. These are spme of the worldly benefits of accepting Islam. Above all, experiencing God is what makes it so great.


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #830913 - 08/20/02 06:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

God does not allow Himself to be proven or disproven.

Then it could all be self-delusion.

If I had to pick between A and B, and A could not be proven or disproven, then I would choose B or neither; certainly not A.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #830929 - 08/20/02 07:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Then it could all be self-delusion.

If I had to pick between A and B, and A could not be proven or disproven, then I would choose B or neither; certainly not A.


That sort of contradicts itself. If you picked B (disbelief in God), that is the belief He does not exist (and in your eyes, disproven).

Logically, I would pick what couldn't be proven or disproven.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831095 - 08/20/02 08:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Logically, I would pick what couldn't be proven or disproven.
You have not exhibited the slightest inkling of a grasp of logic.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #831115 - 08/20/02 08:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

utter gibberish.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831245 - 08/20/02 08:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid, I want to be convinced.

I and others have asked you questions regarding your 'spirituality' but we seldom (if ever) get a straight answer. You obviously believe that Islam is the best, most true belief system yet devised, yet you refuse to reply with direct answers to specific queries regarding your faith. Are you capable of giving direct answers in your own words, without quoting from the Quran or anyone else? I will try one more time. If I cannot get direct responses I will assume that Islam is a belief system best left to be practiced by those who have no regard for innocent human life or the betterment of the human condition. Please give a straight response to each of the following points?

1) If there was no reward and/or punishment in the 'afterlife,' what in your belief system would you still find compelling to follow and why?

2) What benefits from your system's moral code and teachings can be realized in this life?

3) Four men passed through their lives. The first man did good because his religion promised him eternal damnation if he did wrong. The second man did good because his religion promised him everlasting happiness. The third man promised to do good if elected to political office, once elected he used his position to force others to pay for his good works which he performed in order to stay in office. The fourth man did good because he felt that it was good. Which of these four is really the good one?

4) I say that if your morals and actions are contingent on a belief in an after life, you have not learned the lessons of human existence and your moral code is based on simple selfishness and cowering obedience without thought of the implications of your actions on your fellow human beings. How would you respond in your own words?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831394 - 08/20/02 10:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid-
ANSWER EVOLVING.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831447 - 08/20/02 10:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

As a Muslim you can have up to four wives

Say no more. Where do I sign up?



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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831486 - 08/20/02 10:37 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think point B is necessarily NOT believing in God.


It is NOT KNOWING whether there is a God or not.


That's why he's saying Point B. Because he can't prove the existence of God or not, he choses to remain in his own uncertainty.







--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Sclorch]
    #831646 - 08/20/02 11:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I second that...I'm interrested in hearing this too.


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Offlinejim_dewit
A pound of whichweighs...

Registered: 06/26/02
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #832192 - 08/21/02 07:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Stop saying logic.... There isnt a shred of logic in any of your rantings.

Ive seen this type of communication all to often. Both parties might as well be talking to walls. Zahid believes something. Any time someone condradicts his belief, he delves deeper into his faith for answeres.

So just stop trying to convert each other, it only polarizes your opinions.


And that story sucked... Stop trying to paint athiests as unwise arrogant egomaniacs.


Oh and heres an amusing habit of insecure religious types... In one rant theyll bash science, and in an other theyll claim it supports there faith. Har har, make up your mind.


Edited by jim_dewit (08/21/02 08:09 AM)


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #833604 - 08/21/02 04:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

1) If there was no reward and/or punishment in the 'afterlife,' what in your belief system would you still find compelling to follow and why?

I would find it compelling to give alms to the poor. The moral structure of Islam is a perfected one that has great benefits on one's psychology in the world. One of the pillars Islam, Zakat is a requirement to pay 2.5% of your yearly earning to the poor and needy. There is a great feeling in doing such a thing.

2) What benefits from your system's moral code and teachings can be realized in this life?

Restraining from such actions as drinking alcohol, gambling, masturbation, sex outside of marriage. These aspects of life can sometimes lead someone into a cycle that causes depression, harm to self, or harm to others.

3) Four men passed through their lives. The first man did good because his religion promised him eternal damnation if he did wrong. The second man did good because his religion promised him everlasting happiness. The third man promised to do good if elected to political office, once elected he used his position to force others to pay for his good works which he performed in order to stay in office. The fourth man did good because he felt that it was good. Which of these four is really the good one?

The second one. I healthy psychology, true peace, and righteousness is one of the many benefits of a desire for Paradise.

4) I say that if your morals and actions are contingent on a belief in an after life, you have not learned the lessons of human existence and your moral code is based on simple selfishness and cowering obedience without thought of the implications of your actions on your fellow human beings. How would you respond in your own words?

That's a generalization. Surely without religion there would be more evil in the world, consdiering how many people follow Abrahamic faiths, if those faiths did not exist, surely there would be evil among some of them. There would also be very righteous people among them, just as there are righteous people among the nonbelievers. We the believers, hear and obey. Most humans are compassionate to other humans. There are evil ones of course, who rape, murder, and rob, but their moral beliefs are based nothing on Greed, envy, lust, etc. You could say they listen to their inner animal desires.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #834002 - 08/21/02 06:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Restraining from such actions as drinking alcohol, gambling, masturbation, sex outside of marriage. These aspects of life can sometimes lead someone into a cycle that causes depression...
I can see how restraints against drinking alcohol, masturbation and sex outside of marriage could lead to depression. I can also see how this would compel one to dream of eternal paradise so he could cut loose in the afterlife.

The second one. I healthy psychology, true peace, and righteousness is one of the many benefits of a desire for Paradise.
Sounds like selfish motivation to me.

Surely without religion there would be more evil in the world...
You're not a student of world history are you?

Most humans are compassionate to other humans.
That's right, even non-believers.

There are evil ones of course, who rape, murder, and rob, but their moral beliefs are based nothing on Greed, envy, lust, etc. You could say they listen to their inner animal desires.
That's right again, and I don't think you could find any evidence that believers as a group engage in these behaviors any less than non-believers. As a matter of fact, I think there was a certain group of believers called the 'Taliban' who engaged in these acts repeatedly under color of religious authority.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #834011 - 08/21/02 06:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Restraining from such actions as drinking alcohol, gambling, masturbation, sex outside of marriage.

alright sorry you lost me on this line. So now I can't masturbate anymore. FUCK THAT!!!! Might as well tell me to stop breathing. And why is alcohol forbidden but illegal psychotropic substances are ok????? This makes no sense whatsoever, which I assume is why you said it. You have yet to say anything that makes sense.

And your answer to the #3 question was OBVIOUSLY a farce. Any person with the brain power of a ripe cabbage can see that the 1st and 2nd men are selfish pricks. The 3rd one is George W Bush (heheh).

There are evil ones of course, who rape, murder, and rob, but their moral beliefs are based nothing on Greed,
Wouldn't an overwhelming desire to perform certain deeds in order to acheive everlasting happiness be Greed??? If you aren't doing it to help other people just your own afterlife it is selfish greed. Simple as that.

If you truly believe that the person who performs good in order to go to everlasting happiness is a better person than a man who performs good for the sake of good then you are even worse off than I thought. I hope you free your mind from its prison and begin to think for yourself before you lose the ability to do so.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #834340 - 08/21/02 08:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"Surely without religion there would be more evil in the world...."

911

Sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #835510 - 08/22/02 10:13 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

g i b b e r i s h


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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 59
Last seen: 19 years, 26 days
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #835522 - 08/22/02 10:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

why is alcohol forbidden but illegal psychotropic substances are ok????? This makes no sense whatsoever

Are you saying that alcohol ISN'T more harmful than mushrooms?


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: mirror_saw]
    #835567 - 08/22/02 10:58 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Absolutely not! I know how horrible alcohol is for the brain and body. I am merely stating that if you are going to allow your religion to outlaw alcohol, why would you do other drugs like shrooms, weed, coke, etc. Does his book not mention any of those or are they all right to take. And I know they grow lots of poppies over in that part of the world so that must mean that heroin is harmless also.

Now remember, I have nothing against ANY drugs. Drugs are good and wholesome, from crack to mj to LSD to huffing gas, as they make the world a better place usually (for the user). But to single out alcohol while allowing other drugs is ridiculous. Yes some drugs are more dangerous than others.

In responding to him I wasn't bringing the danger level into existence. I mentioned it because all drugs change how you mind works and interprates data. although more dangerous, alcohol doesn't alter you mind as much as a lot of other drugs, including our loving, sacred mushroom. Please please don't ever assume I am putting down a drug. I love drugs.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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InvisibleUFOz8MyGoat
The Governator Sayz Go Chagaz
Male

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1,924
Loc: USA
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #835696 - 08/22/02 12:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

dude you got an extra pamplet?


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OfflineDanimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #837003 - 08/22/02 10:15 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

When a person is a fetus, an angel asks Allah If it should breath in a blessed soul or an accursed one into the fetus. God then decides if the new fetus will become a servent of God or a rebel of God based on what He knows of the future. You still have absolute free will, but Allah knows what your future is, that is all.

So....you have free will to follow the path already chosen by Allah when you were a freedom. Doesn't the term "free will" imply that the future hasn't been set in stone and that you have the ability to choose your own path??? So when a baby has yet to be born, Allah travels into the future, sees how your life will end up, decides if you're worthy of serving him, but grants you free will to change the path that has already happened in the future??? With this type of "logic" I can see how believers could easily justify any action, no matter how absurd it appears to the common infidel.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #837210 - 08/23/02 01:50 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

alright sorry you lost me on this line. So now I can't masturbate anymore. FUCK THAT!!!!

We can't have you spraying in public like an out-of-control AK-47 (insert porno-like slow-mo and strobe lights), someone could get seriously hurt or at least have a substantial dry-cleaning bill.

And that is why the Koran forbids it!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
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Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #837320 - 08/23/02 05:01 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

if i am spraying something in public, better semen than bullets. Unless you are a muslim or an irish catholic. LOL


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Danimal]
    #838151 - 08/23/02 12:41 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

So....you have free will to follow the path already chosen by Allah when you were a freedom. Doesn't the term "free will" imply that the future hasn't been set in stone and that you have the ability to choose your own path??? So when a baby has yet to be born, Allah travels into the future, sees how your life will end up, decides if you're worthy of serving him, but grants you free will to change the path that has already happened in the future??? With this type of "logic" I can see how believers could easily justify any action, no matter how absurd it appears to the common infidel.

You do have free will. You can do whatever you want to do in this world. The earth was created for humans. The future has obviously not occured in the physical world, which God sustains. Since God is All Knowing and outside the realm of time and space, He has complete knowledge of the future. When a person is born into this world, He knows if they will choose evil over good, or good over evil. If a person dies disbelieving the Messengers, that is what they chose with their free will. They made the choice to reject God. They conjure foolish thoughts about God and faith. When the angel brings a soul to the fetus, God knows the outcome of that person, and so the angel is commanded to either breath in a soul that will obey Allah and one day abide in Paradise, or a soul who rejects Allah and will one day abide in Hell. God does not love the disbelievers. He has prepared for those who reject faith in God the Hell Fire, where disbelievers will remain for the rest of their existence. Those who believe the revelation was true but did not obey the commands and did evil in the world, will stay in Hell for a sentence determined by God. When the sentence is complete, an angel locates the the once evil believer who was purified and brings him to Heaven where he remains forever as a reward for whatever good deeds he did in the world. There is one exception though, with suicide. Even if a believer commits suicide, Hell is their abide forever.


--------------------


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838248 - 08/23/02 01:52 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAAH BLLAAHH BLAH

does he remind anyone else of the teacher from Charlie Brown? Constant talking, but it never makes any sense.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #838256 - 08/23/02 01:57 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAAH BLLAAHH BLAH

does he remind anyone else of the teacher from Charlie Brown? Constant talking, but it never makes any sense.


If only you knew.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838552 - 08/23/02 05:01 PM (19 years, 29 days ago)

In reply to:

If only you knew.




Yes, If only i was pompous enough to really believe that i have the truth and can distribute it to unenlightened peons as my divine mercy dictates.

...then i would be as loopy as you.


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OfflineDanimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838630 - 08/23/02 05:48 PM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Zahid-
If what you preach and have said in response to previous posts is Al Haq, aka the Truth, then Islam isn't my bag(but wait a second, Allah already decided whether I'm a good boy or not, arg, free will kicking in). Though when I'm burning in Hell, I'm sure I'll have an eternity to reflect on how I didn't believe THE TRUTH(aka, what you percieve as the truth in an unbending mindset). Till then, I'm gonna enjoy my life as is because it sure is grand.

Toodles


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
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Posts: 4,779
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Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Danimal]
    #838832 - 08/23/02 07:11 PM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Zahid-
If what you preach and have said in response to previous posts is Al Haq, aka the Truth, then Islam isn't my bag(but wait a second, Allah already decided whether I'm a good boy or not, arg, free will kicking in). Though when I'm burning in Hell, I'm sure I'll have an eternity to reflect on how I didn't believe THE TRUTH(aka, what you percieve as the truth in an unbending mindset). Till then, I'm gonna enjoy my life as is because it sure is grand.


So, you are going to choose the reward of this life over the reward of the hereafter? You'll experience trauma the first few seconds after your death because you will still be conscious. The rest I don't have to explain. Don't you have any desire at all for Paradise? At least try to embrace the Merciful aspect of God. Anyone can surrender and enter Paradise. All you need to do is fear God, and obey Him in this life, which will only last anywhere from 25 years to 95 compared to the aspect of eternity in the hereafter, and anything you ever desired is yours.


--------------------


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838978 - 08/23/02 08:17 PM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Good gravy! I come back from a sabbatical, there it is that preaching of Allah again. I must chuckle at your determination and misguidedness. It's that particular self-righteous tone of yours that leaves me wondering about how truly enlightened you are. I just shake my head in disbelief, that all commense sense has gone out of the door. o.O

YOur rigidness is your refusal, at every angle, to truly listen to anyone of us, yet you expect us to. You may have good intentions but, once again, your tone is smug.

The response to your wisdom is fitting of chin music ~ one swoop uppercut to your jaw ~ because you don't realize your crusade is a big slap of injustice in everyone's face whom (sic) are not Muslim.

That's all I'm going to say. Writing this is a waste of brain power.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #839875 - 08/24/02 07:29 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Zahid, have you tried other psycho-active substances (besides shrooms) to help with your understanding of Allah? I have a few I would like to recommend which will probably serve you better than what you are dosing with presently:

Promazine - Other names for this drug include Sparine, Liranol, Prazine, Primazine, Protactyl, Prozine-50, Savamine, and Talofen.

Triflurpromazine - also called Vesprin.

Chlorpromazine - Other names for this drug include Thorazine, Ampliactil, Artomin, Aspersinal, Chlomazine, Chloractil, Chlorazin, Chlorprom, Chlorpromanyl, Clonazine, Contomin, Dormazine, Dozine, Esmino, Ethibernal, Fenactil, Hibernal, Intensol, Klorazin, Largactil, Matcine, Megaphen, Novochlorpromazine, Ormazine, Plegomazine, Promachlor, Promacid, Promactil, Promapar, Promaz, Protran, Prozin, Romazine, Sonazine, Taroctyl, Thaorazine, Thor-Prom, Winsumin, and Wintermin.

Chlorprothixene - also called Taractan.

Thioridazine - Other names for this drug include Melleril, Aldazine, Calmaril, Dizine, Mallorol, Meallaril-S, Meleretten, Meleril, Mellaril, Mellaril-S, Melleretten, Melleril, Mellerettes, Mepiozin, Novoridazine, Ridazin, Sonapex, Thnin, Thiomed, Thioril, and Winteril.

Mesoridazine - also called Serentil.

Droperidol - also called Inapsine.

Acetophenazine - also called Tindal.

Loxapine - Other names for this drug include Loxitane and Loxapax.

Molindone - Other names for this drug include Moban and Lindone.

Perphenazine - Other names for this drug include Trilafon, Avomit, Decentan, Etrafon, Fentazin, Perphenan, Triavil, Trilafan, Triomin, and Triptafen
(Etrafon, Triavil, and Tiptafen also contain the anti-anxiety drug Amitriptyline.)

Prochlorperazine - Other names for this drug include Compazine, Buccastem, Compa-Z, Cotrazine, Cotranzine, Nautisol, Nibromin, Normalmin, Novamin, Novomit, Paotomin, Stell, Stemetil, Steremal, Tementil, and Vertigon.

Thiothixene - also called Navane.

Trifluoperazine - Other names for this drug include Stelazine, Calmazine, Clinazine, Domilium, Eskazine, Espazine, Flupazine, Jatroneural, Modalina, Nerolet, Novoflurazine, Pentazine, Psyrazine, Sedizine, Solazine, Suprazine, Terfluzin, Terfluzine, Triflurin, and Tripazine.

Fluphenazine - Other names for this drug include Prolixin, Anatensol, Dapotum, Flunazine, Funazine, Lyogen, Moditen, Motipress, Motival, Omca, Pacinol, Permitil, Sediten, Selecten, and Siqualone. (Motipress and Motival also contain the anti-anxiety drug Nortriptyline.)

Halperidol - Other names for this drug include Haldol, Brotopon, Depidol, Dozic, Duroperidol, Einalon, Eukystol, Halidol, Halojust, Halomed, Halopidol, Halosten, Haricon, Linton, Mixidol, Novoperidol, Pacedol, Peluces, Pericate, Perida, Peridol, Peridor, Selzyme, Serenance, and Serenase.

Pimozide - also called Orap.

Flupenthixol - also called Fluanxol.

Methotrimeprazine - also called Nozinan.

Pipotiazine - also called Pipotril.

Clozaril - also called Clozapine.

Risperdal - also called Risperidone.

Zyprexa - Other names for this drug include Lanzac and Olanzapine.

Seroquel - also called Quetiapine.

Serlect - also called Sertindole.

Ziprasidone.

Iloperidone.


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OfflineDanimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #840853 - 08/24/02 05:17 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

So, you are going to choose the reward of this life over the reward of the hereafter? You'll experience trauma the first few seconds after your death because you will still be conscious. The rest I don't have to explain. Don't you have any desire at all for Paradise? At least try to embrace the Merciful aspect of God. Anyone can surrender and enter Paradise. All you need to do is fear God, and obey Him in this life, which will only last anywhere from 25 years to 95 compared to the aspect of eternity in the hereafter, and anything you ever desired is yours.

I'm getting the feeling I'm running around in circles but it's an amusing jog to say the least. To state the seemingly obvious, NO ONE, and I repeat no one, who is alive can ever know what the afterlife holds. It may sound like an arrogant statement, but pales in comparison to your 110% certainty of what the afterlife holds. Your statement about fearing god and obeying him sounds eerily like the life of a slave, a life I'm grateful I don't have to live.

*cues "I'm a slaaaaave for you" from britney spears*


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