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OfflineArchDruid
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absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the
    #503036 - 12/28/01 04:51 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

All of you who own a bible, get it so you can cross referance all of the findings so as not to doubt. This following is the absolute biblical proof that the papacy is the anti-christ.
Here are the scriptures that identify the coming of the anti-christ.
dan 7:2,3 - four beasts come up.
dan 7:17,23 - beasts are kings and their kingdoms.
dan 7:4 - first like a lion, babylon.
dan 7:5 - second like a bear, medo-persia.
dan 7:6 - third like a leopard, greece.
dan 7:7 - fourth dreadful beast representing rome.
dan 7: - ten horns, are ten kings that would arise.
they were; Alamanni(germany), Visigoths(spain), franks(france), Suevi(portugal), Burgundians(swiss), anglo-saxon(britain), Lombards(italy), Heruli(destroyed 493), Vandals(detroyed 534), Ostrogoths(destroyed 538).
dan 7:8 - the little horn comes up umong them(the anti-christ).

here follow nine identifying marks of the beast.

1. It comes up "among them", somehwere in western europe. (vs. 8)
2. It comes up after 476 ad, because the other ten kingdoms did not come up unitl after that date.(vs.8)
3. It uproots or destroys three other kingdoms(or horns), the Heruli, Vandals and the Ostrogoths.(vs.8)
4. It has a man at his head to speak for it.(vs.8)
5. It is diverse or different from the other kingdoms.(vs.24)
6. It will speak great words of blasphemy(vs.25; rev. 13:5)
A. John 10:31 - a man makes himself god.
B. Mark 2:5 - A man claims to forgive sins.
7. It would wear out and pursecute gods people.(vs.25)
8. It would try to change gods law(vs.25)
9. I would rule for a time, times and dividing of time. Compare rev. 12:14; rev. 12:6 : time = 1 year; times = 2 years; dividing of time = a half a year = 1260 days or prephetic years(num 14:34, ezek 4:6)

compare with beast of revelation 13.
rev 13:5 - it rules the same 1260 years and speaks blasthemy.
rev 13:7 - it pursecutes the saints.
rev 13:1,3 - It is made up of the four beasts of daniel 7.


let us begin to put it togather, I will compare biblical prophesy with historical history of that region abd of the papacy.

1. It came up among the ten tribes, we know this to be a geographical point somewhere in western europe.(dan 7:8)
---the vatican city is among the tribes---
2. It came up after the division of rome((dan 7:8)
---constantine gave his power and authority to the pope---
3. When it came to power it uprooted three of the other tribes.
---the vatican conquered the Heruli, the Vandals and the Ostrogoths---
4. The horn has the eyes of a man, this means two things first that the beast will have a man at its head, and in the bible the eye is a symbol for gods spirit and intelligence- so the man will imitate divinity(rev 5:6, rev 4:6-8, ezek 1:18, dan 7:8,20)
---does it imitate divinity, yes the pope is called the lord god the pope---
5. He will speak against god and his plan(dan 7:8,20)
---many catholic teachings are un-biblical---
6. He will wear out and persecute the saints, it also speaks of gods people.(dan 7:25)
---Did the papacy persecute people, the conservative estimate I can find says 50 million---
7. He will change set times and laws.
---they removed the second commandment to justify their worshipping of statues, and they changed the holy day of rest from sat to sun.
8. He will rule for 1260 days, which is gone into more deeply above, 1260 years(dan 7:25, ezek 4:6- days to years method-)
---in 538 ad the Ostrogoths ended their attack on rome giving the pope room to excersize his new power, from then it is exactly 1260 years until the pope is taken captive and killed by one of napoleons generals. And it says(youll see below) that the beast shall suffer a wound(this one), and not only survive but grow stronger---
9. He will speak blasthemy against god.(rev 13:1,5,6)
---jesus himself was acused of the same because he claimed to be god and forgave sins, so we will use the same to judge the beast. The papacy incourages people to not go directly to god but to their priests for the forgivness of sins.---
10. The whole world will wonder after him.
---almost every christian church worships on sundat and most do not know why---
11. 666 is the number of his name(rev 13:17,18). Letters in roman, hebrew and latin have a numerical value.
---the popes oficial name is; Vicarius Filii Dei;
v=5 i=1 c=100 a=0 r=0 i=1 u=5 s=0
f=0 i=1 l=50 i=1 i=1
d=500 e=0 i=1.
if you add it up it equals 666. check it if you like I did this part of the research myself---
12. the beast had a fatal wounf but survived and grew in strength.(rev 13:3)
---in 1798 the pope was taken captive and killed---
13. the dragon gave the beast its great seat and authority. well who is the dragon? remember that all animals represent a kingdom. rev 12:9 says that the dragon is satan. rev 12 is about a woman giving birth to the king of all nations, and the dragon tries to kill him. So who can fulfill this, well obviously the child is jesus, and what kingdom tried to kill jesus- rome- so the dragon is rome.(rev 13:4). so who did rome give its great seat and authority to, you guessed it.
--- the emporur constantine handed over his power to the pope---

another point - in rev17 it talks of a whore sitting on top the beast. Well we know the beast is the anti-christ so who is the whore. Well we know that god called his chirch the bride of zion. So it appears that a woman represents a church, and what would a whore represent - a corrupt church! Another weird thing is the whore is clothed in purple and scarlet, the official colors of the roman catholic church are purple and scarlet. The pope himself often wears a robe of those same colors.

I hated to write this because I thought it might offend any catholics out there, but it needed to be said. I am not even christian and this is disturbing. Sorry if this offended anyone, catholics(most) are good people, just misslead it seems.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: ArchDruid]
    #503086 - 12/28/01 08:24 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

I like you Christians, Just because you take an interpretation of the bible is true, how can you now anything in the bible is true?
Is a storybook man!
The ancient Jews started the story and of course what they are going to say, "they are the chosen ones" how convenient. (By the way no offence to Jews all peoples have a similar story that they are special somehow, is human nature)
And now people take the book for granted as the only true story of the world, give me a brake!
The Pope is no more phony than any preacher out there or for that matter any one who thinks that they own the truth.
Because of people who think like you do, the world is the way it is, look Jews against Muslims, Muslims against Christians, Christians against Jews and so on.
If you are going to fallow the bible fallow Jesus teachings (LOVE and Compassion)
Not Hate!


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: ArchDruid]
    #503092 - 12/28/01 08:51 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

The Catholic church has been the victim of more misinformation and lies than any other entity. Your interpretation of the scriptures is flawed just as those that claim the church is the 'whore of babylon' is flawed...

From: http://www.ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp?source=/ewtn/experts/conference.htm

Whore of Babylon


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Judging by the criteria of biblical fundamentalism (literal words literally understood) it is certain that there is no mention of the Catholic Church in the book of Revelation as the Whore of Babylon. By contortions of interpretation (not biblical literalism) some groups and individuals equate the Whore in Revelation 17:9 with the Catholic Church since Rome is the famous city of seven hills and the Church's principal See is Rome. This position is untenable, both factually and from the only words of Scripture which tell us of the actual doctrine of the Antichrist, those of the apostle John in his letters.

There would seem to be two choices, either interpret Rev 17:9 absolutely literally or according to some interpretive key that is metaphorical, allegorical or otherwise non-literal.Lets look first at literal interpretation.

"The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits." First of all, no Pope has ever lived or had his "seat" (cathedra or cathedral) on any of the seven hills of Rome. These hills are small hillocks (Capitoline, Palatine, Esquiline, Aventine and three lesser "bumps" in central Rome) where the religion and government of pagan Rome was situated. The Catholic Church's headquarters at the Lateran (the cathedral) and at the Vatican (where the Pope lives) does not coincide with them. At the time that John wrote Revelation the Christians of Rome lived mostly in Trastevere (trans Tiber), a district "across the Tiber" from the City and adjacent to the Vatican hill where St. Peter was crucified and buried. The Vatican is on top of that burial site and is today its own city-state distinct from Rome and Italy.

So, of what was St. John speaking when he wrote Revelation on the island of Patmos around 96 AD? Obviously of the pagan imperial system situated on the Seven Hills. especially the Capitoline (the religious and political center) and the Palatine (the imperial palace). This pagan power persecuted the Church of Rome in Nero's day (64-67 AD), and in the mid-90s under Domitian was persecuting Christians throughout the Roman world. Domitian was considered by the people a re-incarnation of the evil, but well-liked, Nero (the head that lives again). While the antichrist Nero persecuted only the Christians of Rome, Domitian extended that persecution through the empire. Both are thus types of the final persecutor.

Why the cryptic name Babylon? First, the historical Babylon was the pagan power which persecuted the People of God, the Jews, between 610 and 538 BC, destroying the Temple and dispersing the people. The Romans inherited that mantle of infamy when they destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, and more importantly persecuted the new People of God, the Church. Thus, St. Peter, writing from Rome refers to as "Babylon" (1 Pt. 5:13) - a name any Jew or Christian familiar with the Old Testament would know.

How does this relate to the Antichrist? The future Antichrist will be a world-wide power, essentially pagan, which will persecute the Catholic Church (and orthodox Christians in general) everywhere, as the Babylonians persecuted the Jews and 1st century Rome the Church. These are biblical types! The Babylon of John's day, Rome, stands for the kingdom of the future Antichrist and is no more likely to be situated in Italy than Rome needed to be situated in Babylonia (modern Iraq). John was informing his readers of these prophetic types by drawing their attention to the contemporary fulfillment they found in pagan Rome. The Antichrist will come out of the Christian world (Greco-Roman civilization) to be sure (1 John 2:19), but America is as much an inheritor of that civilization as Europe and just as likely to be the source of the Antichrist.

Finally, after distorting the text and history to read what they want into the Bible, and thereby obtaining God's "blessing" on their hatred of the Catholic Church, some "Christians" ignore the only texts of Scripture which tells us about the religious leanings of the Antichrist. The Catholic faith being a religion you would think they would see what it teaches on the only criteria the Bible actually gives about the Antichrist. In St. John's letters (1 John 4, 2 John 1), he tells us that the spirit of the Antichrist denies the Incarnation (the Son of God becoming man) and thereby also the Trinity (the Father and the Spirit, too). This is the spirit of the Antichrist. There is not a single text in 2000 years, including the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, where the Catholic Church, her popes, her bishops, her official teachings, her saints, or her acknowledged ecclesiastical authors, deny the Word-made-flesh or the Blessed Trinity. Instead, all of Christianity owes the preservation of these Truths to the Catholic Church, whose great Councils formulated them and whose saints and popes have defended them to this day, often at the cost of martyrdom.The present pope, John Paul II, has written three great encyclical (circular) letters on the Trinity, one for each Divine Person, and he has without a doubt preached Jesus Christ to more people than any other person in human history. The Catholic Church does not have the spirit of the Antichrist but of God, since no one without the Spirit can say "Jesus is Lord" (1 Cor. 12:3), something the Church and Catholics always have done and continue to do!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answered by Colin B. Donovan, STL

Back to Expert FAQ
_________________________

BTW, I'm a Roman catholic.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #503096 - 12/28/01 09:01 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

And another thing the analysis is also flawed for a variety of other reasons:
In reply to:

2. It came up after the division of rome((dan 7:8)
---constantine gave his power and authority to the pope---



So Constantine founded the catholic church? Lol but that's a historical lie, the church had held several ecclesiastical councils centuries prior to constantine...

All of those things you wrote are vicious LIES about the church and the pope. I hope everyone sees that hog wash for what it is, LIES, BLATENT LIES.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTannis
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: ArchDruid]
    #503129 - 12/28/01 10:30 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Dude...is this like something that is sacred to you because of a different belief system? Or do you know some hypocrites?

Too "head-y" a discussion for me...

Does anyone remember where we parked..........????
...Tannis

"...it's hard to meditate---when you're on ampthamines..."
----------Joe Walsh


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Tannis]
    #503165 - 12/28/01 11:52 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Yeap, normally some catholic will come and make a reply denying all the truth about those facts. I was myself a catholic also untill i was 14, 12 years ago, i must admit looking back, that my perception of my spiritual link was distorted by those same dogmas the church told me to believe. As i managed to understand the world surrounding me, my biggest help was my grand father, he also was a catholic untill he was 48, but he (as he made me see later) concluded after reading the bible and other historical facts that the catholic church began to rot since it became an institution, institutions are rulled by man and man seeks power for him and for the institution, haven't you forget what was made in the inquisition times by the catholics? A long time ago the catholic church (and other institutionalized religions aren't/) isn't a religion but an institution rulled by "its" religion and "its" religion is tought to its believers.
Christ didn't told us to pray and adore images, or made us go confess to the prist. All the catholics comunities are more concerned with the virgin Mary and other saints and its statues comanded by the patriarcal image of the priest than for God and Christ themselfs. Endless and futile prayers, words repeated countlesslly but their minds obsucured by material thoughts, disconnected from above. Catholics lost their sense of meditation, they lost it because thae curch doesn't want us to trully meditate, they want us to meditate on their dogmas and man made teachings. If they trully meditate ( as it is made in wonderful religions like the budist or descriptive and enlightning doctrines like cristian racionalism ), if they only meditate without those institutionalized bounds filling their minds, they would see the magnificent true meanning of the word of Christ and their God, we read the same biblic words over and over but if you only colect Christ words and forget the rest, write them down and read them, forget everything the church told you, understand those words with an open mind, understand its context. Christ was talking to people with limited understanding of the world and the universe, even the vocabulary was limited, and catholics still read the same words writen by that people, we have to give a more spiritual value to His word and them ask the question, why the institution and his values and laws ?

[11] He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables [12] so that, "`they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!' - Mark (4:11-12)

I came across many religions in my life, read many words of wisdom from many mentors, Christ was one of them and perhaps the one that most afected me, and all i can tell you is, he didn't told me to have a religion, he just asked people to believe in is word and His word the way i see it is much more beautiful and powerful than when i was a catholic.

"If you continue in my word . . . you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." Jesus (John 8:31-32 RSV)

Peace,
MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Edited by MAIA (12/28/01 11:57 AM)


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Offlineupupup
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: MAIA]
    #503195 - 12/28/01 12:42 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Ya'll should try being a Jewish Mormon.


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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.


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OfflineTannis
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: MAIA]
    #503212 - 12/28/01 01:01 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

...but I'm not catholic....

What I mean is 1---Are you defending another belief system?

And / Or 2---Do you know some real catholic hypocrites and want to show their full of it?

---Tannis


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Tannis]
    #503249 - 12/28/01 01:57 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

"...but I'm not catholic...."
Sorry Tannis, first pasrt was to you, the rest would be to RAIL GUN.

1---Are you defending another belief system?
No system, spirituality doesn't need to be connected to a religion, i could be a religious person without having a religion.
You see, if you believe a religion you believe what they teach you, monoteistic religions have only one god and all of those religions teach you their god is the "right" god. That makes the word "faith" come into the scene, dig a little bit and you'll question yourself why other people have a diferent faith. The faith itself is a reproduction of those laws and dogmas converted into a colective awareness by that institution. True spiritual awareness has nothing to do with this intitutional "faith" as this institutional "faith" is in favour man-made laws and dogmas, spiritual awareness is a very individual and personal aproach were you find yourself meditating with the being above, there are no saints or images to adore, no bondage to institutionalized ideals, you are the sanctuary,you are the church but you are not God, and He's not a guy with beard sitting on an acient chair looking down saying who's right or wrong, He's the universe, the universal conscienceness, we are only a part of Him.
So, religion is a filter to spiritual awareness, diferent religions, diferent filters. Try to remove the filters and behold the true nature of God. I'm not saying i did it, i'm saying i'm still trying to.

"2---Do you know some real catholic hypocrites and want to show their full of it? "

Many catholics are hypocrites because they refuse to consider they might be wrong and that's several steps before admiting being wrong.
Biblical interpretation can be misleading sometimes, but the fact is that the catholic curch has changed the bible to its own benefit, taking advantage of the "faith" people put in that word thus misleading even more people, and then they say it's the Lord words, that's hypocricy.
BTW, i live in a country where 95% of the population is catholic, some catholics accept some of my words (when in debate), others laugh and say i'm reading other religion bible, others say that it was the way they were raised. I say, question yourselves about the "need" of a religion and the institution it represents.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineJammer
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: upupup]
    #503303 - 12/28/01 02:57 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Well it's nice to see that you have an apropiate pic for this forum!

hehe


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>>Jammer>>


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OfflineArchDruid
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Jammer]
    #504276 - 12/29/01 08:24 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

First the research is not flawed in any way, some of you may think so out of some sort of defence mechanism.
Second, those scriptures were not originally written against the catholic church, they were written many centuries before.
Third, Rail_Gun - no-one said he founded the church you moron, I simple said that he gave up his seat and authority to the pope. And that is a certainty. With the disolution of the roman empire, at the end, constantine gave what little power he had left to the pope.
I do not know whether or not I hold anything in the bible to be true or not, but it certainly demands attention now and then.


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" I have decided to become an example for others, although I have never been one for moderation. I have decided never to eat LSD while asleep, never to refrain while awake, and to never eat less than 10 hits at a time."


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: ArchDruid]
    #504631 - 12/30/01 06:53 AM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Ah, but Arch-Druid, what you've said is flawed. And if using my brain is a defence mechanism then I'm guilty of that... Those scriptures you've quoted are being taken completely out of context. What you've done is put together a lot of scriptures that don't go together to make them mean what you want them to mean. That is what cults do. For example lets say I put together a verse that says "...Judas hanged himself," and and another that says "...go thou and do likewise..." To say that the Bible says Judas hanged himself go thou and do likewise. Those words may be in the Bible but they do not go together and it is a lie to say the Bible says to go hang yourself because thats what Judas did. You're doing the very same thing, taking scripture out of context for your own purposes. You've twisted the meaning of scripture to suit your own hateful anti-catholic purposes


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineKeepAskingTime
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #504755 - 12/30/01 01:25 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

I am Jesus Christ.
Before you point the finger you should know that I'm the man, and if I'm the man, then you're the man, and he's the man as well so you can point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

No offense ment, I'm serious. The second coming of Christ is through our consciousness.


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I'm praying for infinite lapdances in heaven and an infinite supply of cocaine to snort out of Angelina Jolie's ass crack.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #504776 - 12/30/01 02:12 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

"You've twisted the meaning of scripture to suit your own hateful anti-catholic purposes"

...And what tells you the catholic curch haven't done that ?
There is a catholic interpretation of the bible, that doesn't mean it's the true and only interpretation. You say others interpretations are twisted but you never thought the catholic interpretation could be the one being twisted, the word hypocricy is properly used this time.
Now tell me how the catholic church twisted exodus 20:4-5
"4
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"


Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineMAIA
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: upupup]
    #504778 - 12/30/01 02:16 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

?
Explain please.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: MAIA]
    #504783 - 12/30/01 02:30 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

MAIA, you've obviously never been to a catholic church... We do not worship idols. We worship God only. We have statues of Jesus and the saints to remind of them but we do not in any way worship them. We do genuflect or bow to the tabernacle to show respect to Jesus's presence in it (body blood soul and divinity) but it is bowing to Jesus, not an object or idol.

It never ceases to amaze me the misconceptions people have about the catholic faith... Someone once told me that there were convents that had a lot of nuns and one priest living there. He said the nuns were married to the Lord so the priest could take his choice of the nuns and have sex with them any time he wanted. Now I just about burst out laughing but he was serious. Of course I corrected him... The point being, there are a lot of misconceptions about the catholic faith, very few of which are true.

Take care

Edited to correct typos


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (12/30/01 02:33 PM)


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #504808 - 12/30/01 03:09 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

"MAIA, you've obviously never been to a catholic church... We do not worship idols. We worship God only"

Hey dude, do you know my country is catholic since 1138 ? Do you know i live 20 meters away from a 300 years old catholic church ? There was made my baptism, 1st. and 2nd. comunion, you must be kidding, right? Have you ever seen people touching a statue foot untill the rock is wept off of so much touching ? Have you ever eard of hundred of people going to a church in the country to adore a Saint image because someone saw the image cry blood ? Do you know where and who Fatima is and what is adored there? Do you know there's a market of thousands of dollars per year just by selling statues on that place ?
Are you telling me i don't know my own familly? Allmost all of them are catholics, they have a picture of Christ in the wall and a bunch of images to adore and PRAY TO. And guess what ? Virgen Mary's statues have more success than Christ ones, well perhaps its the oposite where you live. Of course there are places where specific believes are put in specific saints, like praying to St. Martin statue before going into the sea and/or it's mandatory to have a statue of him in the boat or else it will sink. Then you say catholics do not adore images, they love them!!!
Where i live this shit happens.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #504815 - 12/30/01 03:16 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

"He said the nuns were married to the Lord so the priest could take his choice of the nuns and have sex with them any time he wanted. Now I just about burst out laughing but he was serious."

Yes, this happened once in Portugal in 1753 in a convent in Lisbon, Mr. Marques de Pombal ruller of the city "rocked" the house and kicked out all of them , they were burned in the fire as the inquisition demanded.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: MAIA]
    #504835 - 12/30/01 03:42 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

MAIA, I'm sorry but you're mistaking veneration for adoration/worship. For instance, we venerate the virgin Mary because she gave us our Lord, she's God's mom. And we pray to her and other saints for them to interceed to the Lord for us because they're closer to God than we are and they're in real good with him.

Now I'll quote from the new Catechism of the Catholic Church: 2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to it's prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacrd images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone: Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their ditinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the imae does not terminate in it as image, but tends towards that whos image it is.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #504841 - 12/30/01 03:52 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Strange how the Catholic religion is the wealthiest (moneywise) entity in the world.


Edited by Anonymous (12/30/01 03:53 PM)


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