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OfflineInsomniac
Stranger
Registered: 03/17/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828521 - 08/19/02 03:09 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Ok I perused that site you mentioned and I happened to come across this statement:

Besides, Allah comes to our aid through the many Messengers and Revelations He has sent down to humanity.

Then I noticed something in one of your posts and it got me thinking:

If they recieve no warning of the hereafter, they are ignorant and Paradise is theirs.

How is sending messengers and revelations aiding us if salvation was already ours beforehand? If everybody was just allowed to stay ignorant then we'd all be in paradise. I don't see Allah's great plan here, sry


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #828802 - 08/19/02 05:30 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No, sir, there isn't."
The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

How can the room grow cold? There isn't any such a thing!

Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science,
I DECLARE that the professor has no brain."

Apprently this misguided student has no concept of scientific extraoplation which is considered valid and has stood the test of time.

Every single human cadaver that has had it's head autopsied has beeen shown to have a brain. The professor is a human, ergo...

Not to mention CAT scans, MRIs, EEGs, etc. Your Muz is apparently quite ignorant of modern brain-measuring tools.

I want Professor Schlorch, not some spineless teacher that folds upon hearing poorly-formed arguments!




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #828809 - 08/19/02 05:33 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)



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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #828818 - 08/19/02 05:36 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

In case you haven't noticed Swami, Zahid evades giving direct answers to the likes of Sclorch. It is easier for him to cut and paste in his posts and his thought processes, which are filled with mythical beings in mythical situations.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #828838 - 08/19/02 05:45 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

One time a was riding a unicorn (or was it a unicycle?) and the mysterious voice of Allah Fatwah spoke to me and said, "Teach the stupid infidels so that they may not perish in udder darkness" (Hey, how's a cow get in this stream of conscienceness). Then I mounted my steed (or was it my goat) and took off on my mission of mercy (to teach the infidels or kill them, I can't remember which).



Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #828843 - 08/19/02 05:48 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

What the... LOL!


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #829116 - 08/19/02 07:52 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I think it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I suppose nothing is definate iether- it's all a matter of preception. This can get really messy, next phase is stating definations of good and evil, religion and science, etc.

I don't know how exactly a computer works, but I know it works because I'm typing and it shows up on my monator. I don't know if there are really other planets in this solar system, because I've never seen them. I don't really know that any history described in all the history books even occured- because I haven't witnessed it happen. How do I know If you people really exist? I really have no scientific proof that even I exist- Maybe my life is one big dream.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 59
Last seen: 21 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (part of The Truth) [Re: Sclorch]
    #830218 - 08/20/02 10:26 AM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I think I know what you mean



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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #830497 - 08/20/02 12:53 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I know unicorns exist - I rode one in the 60s!


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #830510 - 08/20/02 01:00 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Zahid, that is a weak argument for the existence of God. And your post doesn't explain why we should "submit" to Islam.
Isn't submitting to God enough? Why complicate the process with so many rules and meaningless rituals of religion?

If you are promoting Islam (that is your purpose isn't it?) then do just that. Don't promote Islam by bashing Christianity, Judaism, Science and everything else that disagrees with your worldview. Don't tell me how I'm gonna burn in hell. Tell me what is so great about Islam.



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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #830889 - 08/20/02 04:36 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Evolving:

In case you haven't noticed Swami, Zahid evades giving direct answers to the likes of Sclorch. It is easier for him to cut and paste in his posts and his thought processes, which are filled with mythical beings in mythical situations.

The story I copied and pasted in my post was supposed to give some insight why we believe, but there is no real reason why believers truly believe. Allah guides whom He wills into the truth. I can't give Swami, or you the answer you're looking for. I can only agrue logic and experience, that is what I am limited to because God does not allow Himself to be proven or disproven. By logic, if God did not exist I would never experience what I have experienced. You may see it from a different perspective: "Zahid believes in Paradise, that must be what he is experiencing" but it falls short of the truth what I have experienced. I desire the reward of the hereafter, not the reward of the world.

infidelGOD:

Zahid, that is a weak argument for the existence of God. And your post doesn't explain why we should "submit" to Islam.

As believers, we look for proof of the existence of God in the world around us. Every aspect of existence tells a believer God exists, without a doubt. Unbelievers don't look at the world around them for proof of non existence in the manner believers look at the world. Instead of listening to revelation from God, they listen to those who don't believe. Be it Sigmund Freud (Whom I like to think of as an expert at kufr psychology), Charles Darwin, or your shroomer buddy.

Isn't submitting to God enough? Why complicate the process with so many rules and meaningless rituals of religion?

Why is it complicated to obey God? Allah hates evil. He forbids it to those who believe. The more righteous you are, the more rewards you will get. Meaningless rituals? If you're referring to Muslims praying five times a day, we do this to remember Allah. The more we remember God, the more at peace we feel. Look at the verse in my title.

If you are promoting Islam (that is your purpose isn't it?) then do just that. Don't promote Islam by bashing Christianity, Judaism, Science and everything else that disagrees with your worldview. Don't tell me how I'm gonna burn in hell. Tell me what is so great about Islam.

I do not bashing Christianity, or Judaism. I have great respect for Christians and Jews because they worship the same God I do, only they follow the teachings of an older messenger. My father is a Christian, along with a few friends of mine. What is so great Islam? Prayer (rememberance of God) is an amazing feeling. If you accept Islam, you also get to visit Mecca for the Hajj. You are always at a feeling of peace, if Islam is accepted. Muslims are very close to eachother, referring to one another as brother and sister, greeting one another with the word Salaams, which means peace. As a Muslim you get to wear stylish hats called kufis, wear Pakistani clothing (if you choose), learn the Arabic language throughout your life, and if duty calls, you might get the chance to get martyred in Allah's cause fighting oppressors (in a proper manner of course)..and I'm not talking about Osama's version of jihad, but Muhammad's. As a Muslim you can have up to four wives, given you treat them all equally. These are spme of the worldly benefits of accepting Islam. Above all, experiencing God is what makes it so great.


--------------------


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #830913 - 08/20/02 04:50 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

God does not allow Himself to be proven or disproven.

Then it could all be self-delusion.

If I had to pick between A and B, and A could not be proven or disproven, then I would choose B or neither; certainly not A.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #830929 - 08/20/02 05:05 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Then it could all be self-delusion.

If I had to pick between A and B, and A could not be proven or disproven, then I would choose B or neither; certainly not A.


That sort of contradicts itself. If you picked B (disbelief in God), that is the belief He does not exist (and in your eyes, disproven).

Logically, I would pick what couldn't be proven or disproven.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831095 - 08/20/02 06:03 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Logically, I would pick what couldn't be proven or disproven.
You have not exhibited the slightest inkling of a grasp of logic.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #831115 - 08/20/02 06:09 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

utter gibberish.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831245 - 08/20/02 06:45 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Zahid, I want to be convinced.

I and others have asked you questions regarding your 'spirituality' but we seldom (if ever) get a straight answer. You obviously believe that Islam is the best, most true belief system yet devised, yet you refuse to reply with direct answers to specific queries regarding your faith. Are you capable of giving direct answers in your own words, without quoting from the Quran or anyone else? I will try one more time. If I cannot get direct responses I will assume that Islam is a belief system best left to be practiced by those who have no regard for innocent human life or the betterment of the human condition. Please give a straight response to each of the following points?

1) If there was no reward and/or punishment in the 'afterlife,' what in your belief system would you still find compelling to follow and why?

2) What benefits from your system's moral code and teachings can be realized in this life?

3) Four men passed through their lives. The first man did good because his religion promised him eternal damnation if he did wrong. The second man did good because his religion promised him everlasting happiness. The third man promised to do good if elected to political office, once elected he used his position to force others to pay for his good works which he performed in order to stay in office. The fourth man did good because he felt that it was good. Which of these four is really the good one?

4) I say that if your morals and actions are contingent on a belief in an after life, you have not learned the lessons of human existence and your moral code is based on simple selfishness and cowering obedience without thought of the implications of your actions on your fellow human beings. How would you respond in your own words?


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831394 - 08/20/02 08:01 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

Zahid-
ANSWER EVOLVING.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831447 - 08/20/02 08:25 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

As a Muslim you can have up to four wives

Say no more. Where do I sign up?



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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25,335
Loc: S.A.G.G.Y.B.A.L.L.S.
Last seen: 7 months, 19 days
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #831486 - 08/20/02 08:37 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think point B is necessarily NOT believing in God.


It is NOT KNOWING whether there is a God or not.


That's why he's saying Point B. Because he can't prove the existence of God or not, he choses to remain in his own uncertainty.







--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
mentally illpsychonaught

Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Sclorch]
    #831646 - 08/20/02 09:57 PM (21 years, 6 months ago)

I second that...I'm interrested in hearing this too.


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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