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Offlinejim_dewit
A pound of whichweighs...

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 33
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #832192 - 08/21/02 07:53 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Stop saying logic.... There isnt a shred of logic in any of your rantings.

Ive seen this type of communication all to often. Both parties might as well be talking to walls. Zahid believes something. Any time someone condradicts his belief, he delves deeper into his faith for answeres.

So just stop trying to convert each other, it only polarizes your opinions.


And that story sucked... Stop trying to paint athiests as unwise arrogant egomaniacs.


Oh and heres an amusing habit of insecure religious types... In one rant theyll bash science, and in an other theyll claim it supports there faith. Har har, make up your mind.


Edited by jim_dewit (08/21/02 08:09 AM)


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #833604 - 08/21/02 04:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

1) If there was no reward and/or punishment in the 'afterlife,' what in your belief system would you still find compelling to follow and why?

I would find it compelling to give alms to the poor. The moral structure of Islam is a perfected one that has great benefits on one's psychology in the world. One of the pillars Islam, Zakat is a requirement to pay 2.5% of your yearly earning to the poor and needy. There is a great feeling in doing such a thing.

2) What benefits from your system's moral code and teachings can be realized in this life?

Restraining from such actions as drinking alcohol, gambling, masturbation, sex outside of marriage. These aspects of life can sometimes lead someone into a cycle that causes depression, harm to self, or harm to others.

3) Four men passed through their lives. The first man did good because his religion promised him eternal damnation if he did wrong. The second man did good because his religion promised him everlasting happiness. The third man promised to do good if elected to political office, once elected he used his position to force others to pay for his good works which he performed in order to stay in office. The fourth man did good because he felt that it was good. Which of these four is really the good one?

The second one. I healthy psychology, true peace, and righteousness is one of the many benefits of a desire for Paradise.

4) I say that if your morals and actions are contingent on a belief in an after life, you have not learned the lessons of human existence and your moral code is based on simple selfishness and cowering obedience without thought of the implications of your actions on your fellow human beings. How would you respond in your own words?

That's a generalization. Surely without religion there would be more evil in the world, consdiering how many people follow Abrahamic faiths, if those faiths did not exist, surely there would be evil among some of them. There would also be very righteous people among them, just as there are righteous people among the nonbelievers. We the believers, hear and obey. Most humans are compassionate to other humans. There are evil ones of course, who rape, murder, and rob, but their moral beliefs are based nothing on Greed, envy, lust, etc. You could say they listen to their inner animal desires.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #834002 - 08/21/02 06:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Restraining from such actions as drinking alcohol, gambling, masturbation, sex outside of marriage. These aspects of life can sometimes lead someone into a cycle that causes depression...
I can see how restraints against drinking alcohol, masturbation and sex outside of marriage could lead to depression. I can also see how this would compel one to dream of eternal paradise so he could cut loose in the afterlife.

The second one. I healthy psychology, true peace, and righteousness is one of the many benefits of a desire for Paradise.
Sounds like selfish motivation to me.

Surely without religion there would be more evil in the world...
You're not a student of world history are you?

Most humans are compassionate to other humans.
That's right, even non-believers.

There are evil ones of course, who rape, murder, and rob, but their moral beliefs are based nothing on Greed, envy, lust, etc. You could say they listen to their inner animal desires.
That's right again, and I don't think you could find any evidence that believers as a group engage in these behaviors any less than non-believers. As a matter of fact, I think there was a certain group of believers called the 'Taliban' who engaged in these acts repeatedly under color of religious authority.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #834011 - 08/21/02 06:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Restraining from such actions as drinking alcohol, gambling, masturbation, sex outside of marriage.

alright sorry you lost me on this line. So now I can't masturbate anymore. FUCK THAT!!!! Might as well tell me to stop breathing. And why is alcohol forbidden but illegal psychotropic substances are ok????? This makes no sense whatsoever, which I assume is why you said it. You have yet to say anything that makes sense.

And your answer to the #3 question was OBVIOUSLY a farce. Any person with the brain power of a ripe cabbage can see that the 1st and 2nd men are selfish pricks. The 3rd one is George W Bush (heheh).

There are evil ones of course, who rape, murder, and rob, but their moral beliefs are based nothing on Greed,
Wouldn't an overwhelming desire to perform certain deeds in order to acheive everlasting happiness be Greed??? If you aren't doing it to help other people just your own afterlife it is selfish greed. Simple as that.

If you truly believe that the person who performs good in order to go to everlasting happiness is a better person than a man who performs good for the sake of good then you are even worse off than I thought. I hope you free your mind from its prison and begin to think for yourself before you lose the ability to do so.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #834340 - 08/21/02 08:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"Surely without religion there would be more evil in the world...."

911

Sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: ]
    #835510 - 08/22/02 10:13 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

g i b b e r i s h


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Offlinemirror_saw
journeyman
Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 59
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #835522 - 08/22/02 10:21 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

why is alcohol forbidden but illegal psychotropic substances are ok????? This makes no sense whatsoever

Are you saying that alcohol ISN'T more harmful than mushrooms?


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: mirror_saw]
    #835567 - 08/22/02 10:58 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Absolutely not! I know how horrible alcohol is for the brain and body. I am merely stating that if you are going to allow your religion to outlaw alcohol, why would you do other drugs like shrooms, weed, coke, etc. Does his book not mention any of those or are they all right to take. And I know they grow lots of poppies over in that part of the world so that must mean that heroin is harmless also.

Now remember, I have nothing against ANY drugs. Drugs are good and wholesome, from crack to mj to LSD to huffing gas, as they make the world a better place usually (for the user). But to single out alcohol while allowing other drugs is ridiculous. Yes some drugs are more dangerous than others.

In responding to him I wasn't bringing the danger level into existence. I mentioned it because all drugs change how you mind works and interprates data. although more dangerous, alcohol doesn't alter you mind as much as a lot of other drugs, including our loving, sacred mushroom. Please please don't ever assume I am putting down a drug. I love drugs.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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InvisibleUFOz8MyGoat
The Governator Sayz Go Chagaz
Male

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 1,924
Loc: USA
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #835696 - 08/22/02 12:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

dude you got an extra pamplet?


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OfflineDanimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #837003 - 08/22/02 10:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

When a person is a fetus, an angel asks Allah If it should breath in a blessed soul or an accursed one into the fetus. God then decides if the new fetus will become a servent of God or a rebel of God based on what He knows of the future. You still have absolute free will, but Allah knows what your future is, that is all.

So....you have free will to follow the path already chosen by Allah when you were a freedom. Doesn't the term "free will" imply that the future hasn't been set in stone and that you have the ability to choose your own path??? So when a baby has yet to be born, Allah travels into the future, sees how your life will end up, decides if you're worthy of serving him, but grants you free will to change the path that has already happened in the future??? With this type of "logic" I can see how believers could easily justify any action, no matter how absurd it appears to the common infidel.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #837210 - 08/23/02 01:50 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

alright sorry you lost me on this line. So now I can't masturbate anymore. FUCK THAT!!!!

We can't have you spraying in public like an out-of-control AK-47 (insert porno-like slow-mo and strobe lights), someone could get seriously hurt or at least have a substantial dry-cleaning bill.

And that is why the Koran forbids it!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Swami]
    #837320 - 08/23/02 05:01 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

if i am spraying something in public, better semen than bullets. Unless you are a muslim or an irish catholic. LOL


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Danimal]
    #838151 - 08/23/02 12:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So....you have free will to follow the path already chosen by Allah when you were a freedom. Doesn't the term "free will" imply that the future hasn't been set in stone and that you have the ability to choose your own path??? So when a baby has yet to be born, Allah travels into the future, sees how your life will end up, decides if you're worthy of serving him, but grants you free will to change the path that has already happened in the future??? With this type of "logic" I can see how believers could easily justify any action, no matter how absurd it appears to the common infidel.

You do have free will. You can do whatever you want to do in this world. The earth was created for humans. The future has obviously not occured in the physical world, which God sustains. Since God is All Knowing and outside the realm of time and space, He has complete knowledge of the future. When a person is born into this world, He knows if they will choose evil over good, or good over evil. If a person dies disbelieving the Messengers, that is what they chose with their free will. They made the choice to reject God. They conjure foolish thoughts about God and faith. When the angel brings a soul to the fetus, God knows the outcome of that person, and so the angel is commanded to either breath in a soul that will obey Allah and one day abide in Paradise, or a soul who rejects Allah and will one day abide in Hell. God does not love the disbelievers. He has prepared for those who reject faith in God the Hell Fire, where disbelievers will remain for the rest of their existence. Those who believe the revelation was true but did not obey the commands and did evil in the world, will stay in Hell for a sentence determined by God. When the sentence is complete, an angel locates the the once evil believer who was purified and brings him to Heaven where he remains forever as a reward for whatever good deeds he did in the world. There is one exception though, with suicide. Even if a believer commits suicide, Hell is their abide forever.


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Offlinepostalboy
I'm not myfucking khaki's!
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 228
Loc: My tiny corner of the pad...
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838248 - 08/23/02 01:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAAH BLLAAHH BLAH

does he remind anyone else of the teacher from Charlie Brown? Constant talking, but it never makes any sense.


--------------------
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." F and L in L.V.


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: postalboy]
    #838256 - 08/23/02 01:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHBLAH BLAAH BLLAAHH BLAH

does he remind anyone else of the teacher from Charlie Brown? Constant talking, but it never makes any sense.


If only you knew.


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838552 - 08/23/02 05:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

If only you knew.




Yes, If only i was pompous enough to really believe that i have the truth and can distribute it to unenlightened peons as my divine mercy dictates.

...then i would be as loopy as you.


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OfflineDanimal
journeyman
Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 76
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838630 - 08/23/02 05:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid-
If what you preach and have said in response to previous posts is Al Haq, aka the Truth, then Islam isn't my bag(but wait a second, Allah already decided whether I'm a good boy or not, arg, free will kicking in). Though when I'm burning in Hell, I'm sure I'll have an eternity to reflect on how I didn't believe THE TRUTH(aka, what you percieve as the truth in an unbending mindset). Till then, I'm gonna enjoy my life as is because it sure is grand.

Toodles


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Danimal]
    #838832 - 08/23/02 07:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid-
If what you preach and have said in response to previous posts is Al Haq, aka the Truth, then Islam isn't my bag(but wait a second, Allah already decided whether I'm a good boy or not, arg, free will kicking in). Though when I'm burning in Hell, I'm sure I'll have an eternity to reflect on how I didn't believe THE TRUTH(aka, what you percieve as the truth in an unbending mindset). Till then, I'm gonna enjoy my life as is because it sure is grand.


So, you are going to choose the reward of this life over the reward of the hereafter? You'll experience trauma the first few seconds after your death because you will still be conscious. The rest I don't have to explain. Don't you have any desire at all for Paradise? At least try to embrace the Merciful aspect of God. Anyone can surrender and enter Paradise. All you need to do is fear God, and obey Him in this life, which will only last anywhere from 25 years to 95 compared to the aspect of eternity in the hereafter, and anything you ever desired is yours.


--------------------


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #838978 - 08/23/02 08:17 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Good gravy! I come back from a sabbatical, there it is that preaching of Allah again. I must chuckle at your determination and misguidedness. It's that particular self-righteous tone of yours that leaves me wondering about how truly enlightened you are. I just shake my head in disbelief, that all commense sense has gone out of the door. o.O

YOur rigidness is your refusal, at every angle, to truly listen to anyone of us, yet you expect us to. You may have good intentions but, once again, your tone is smug.

The response to your wisdom is fitting of chin music ~ one swoop uppercut to your jaw ~ because you don't realize your crusade is a big slap of injustice in everyone's face whom (sic) are not Muslim.

That's all I'm going to say. Writing this is a waste of brain power.


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Anonymous

Re: Al Haq (The Truth) [Re: Zahid]
    #839875 - 08/24/02 07:29 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Zahid, have you tried other psycho-active substances (besides shrooms) to help with your understanding of Allah? I have a few I would like to recommend which will probably serve you better than what you are dosing with presently:

Promazine - Other names for this drug include Sparine, Liranol, Prazine, Primazine, Protactyl, Prozine-50, Savamine, and Talofen.

Triflurpromazine - also called Vesprin.

Chlorpromazine - Other names for this drug include Thorazine, Ampliactil, Artomin, Aspersinal, Chlomazine, Chloractil, Chlorazin, Chlorprom, Chlorpromanyl, Clonazine, Contomin, Dormazine, Dozine, Esmino, Ethibernal, Fenactil, Hibernal, Intensol, Klorazin, Largactil, Matcine, Megaphen, Novochlorpromazine, Ormazine, Plegomazine, Promachlor, Promacid, Promactil, Promapar, Promaz, Protran, Prozin, Romazine, Sonazine, Taroctyl, Thaorazine, Thor-Prom, Winsumin, and Wintermin.

Chlorprothixene - also called Taractan.

Thioridazine - Other names for this drug include Melleril, Aldazine, Calmaril, Dizine, Mallorol, Meallaril-S, Meleretten, Meleril, Mellaril, Mellaril-S, Melleretten, Melleril, Mellerettes, Mepiozin, Novoridazine, Ridazin, Sonapex, Thnin, Thiomed, Thioril, and Winteril.

Mesoridazine - also called Serentil.

Droperidol - also called Inapsine.

Acetophenazine - also called Tindal.

Loxapine - Other names for this drug include Loxitane and Loxapax.

Molindone - Other names for this drug include Moban and Lindone.

Perphenazine - Other names for this drug include Trilafon, Avomit, Decentan, Etrafon, Fentazin, Perphenan, Triavil, Trilafan, Triomin, and Triptafen
(Etrafon, Triavil, and Tiptafen also contain the anti-anxiety drug Amitriptyline.)

Prochlorperazine - Other names for this drug include Compazine, Buccastem, Compa-Z, Cotrazine, Cotranzine, Nautisol, Nibromin, Normalmin, Novamin, Novomit, Paotomin, Stell, Stemetil, Steremal, Tementil, and Vertigon.

Thiothixene - also called Navane.

Trifluoperazine - Other names for this drug include Stelazine, Calmazine, Clinazine, Domilium, Eskazine, Espazine, Flupazine, Jatroneural, Modalina, Nerolet, Novoflurazine, Pentazine, Psyrazine, Sedizine, Solazine, Suprazine, Terfluzin, Terfluzine, Triflurin, and Tripazine.

Fluphenazine - Other names for this drug include Prolixin, Anatensol, Dapotum, Flunazine, Funazine, Lyogen, Moditen, Motipress, Motival, Omca, Pacinol, Permitil, Sediten, Selecten, and Siqualone. (Motipress and Motival also contain the anti-anxiety drug Nortriptyline.)

Halperidol - Other names for this drug include Haldol, Brotopon, Depidol, Dozic, Duroperidol, Einalon, Eukystol, Halidol, Halojust, Halomed, Halopidol, Halosten, Haricon, Linton, Mixidol, Novoperidol, Pacedol, Peluces, Pericate, Perida, Peridol, Peridor, Selzyme, Serenance, and Serenase.

Pimozide - also called Orap.

Flupenthixol - also called Fluanxol.

Methotrimeprazine - also called Nozinan.

Pipotiazine - also called Pipotril.

Clozaril - also called Clozapine.

Risperdal - also called Risperidone.

Zyprexa - Other names for this drug include Lanzac and Olanzapine.

Seroquel - also called Quetiapine.

Serlect - also called Sertindole.

Ziprasidone.

Iloperidone.


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