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Offlineandrash
The Oceanminder

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
What is the Truth?
    #1232289 - 01/19/03 10:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What is the Truth?
I mean, how do you recognize it?

If the shrooms give you the feeling that you get in touch with the truth, then, is the truth just something chemical that happens in your brain, or the psilocybin really opens your mind to the external, universal Truth?
How do you know if something is true? If it's just something you perceive or feel, how can you really trust your senses or feelings?
Does an external Truth exist, or everything is just in our brain?

This it the ultimate question I started asking me after my last trip... I feel like I can't go on living if I don't have the answer to this...

Any help?

A zen teacher would tell me it's the wrong question... or would answer me with a paradoxical thing... I don't need this... I'd like to have some of your reflection on this topic...

Thank you,

Andrash


--------------------
--- Who am I, where is me, when I' am away from myself? --- F. Battiato


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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1232340 - 01/19/03 10:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Well, the truth is different in everyones mind. Usually it is what seems most meaningful, and I think it is good to set the meaningful events up as a reality map. As long as you don't think of them as too real, it is good and healthy.


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OfflineKenny Bus
The enlightend

Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 321
Loc: ontario
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1232483 - 01/20/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

there is only truth. its just how u interperit it.


--------------------
KB


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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1232485 - 01/20/03 12:12 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

In my case though, I am constantly changing truths. My mind goes from one to the other or rather questions experiences. I am trying to encorporate some routine into my life to stop that and stick to reality maps that aren't scary.


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Offlineandrash
The Oceanminder

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #1232617 - 01/20/03 02:31 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I've found right now that Mr Mushrooms has already posted a question like this... that thread is very long, so it'll take time to read it all...

I'll be back!

Andrash


--------------------
--- Who am I, where is me, when I' am away from myself? --- F. Battiato


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OfflineLucidDreams
Soul
Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1232619 - 01/20/03 02:31 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Experience is Truth. Thus Mind and its many games and obstacles leads you away from the exctasy of felt exerience.
Everything is Part of The Truth, but as I say, felt experience within and from the body, has a certain "touch" of undeniable truth to it.
Maybe not THE truth (all is the truth, there is no truth) but still True enough.

I could go on ranting for ever about this though, but i wont.


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Offlineandrash
The Oceanminder

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: LucidDreams]
    #1232846 - 01/20/03 06:00 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You say experience is truth.
The experience is done through the senses. The senses are often wrong or relative. So how can you trust in your senses?
There is also the misinterpretation of the experience... because your mind is like a filter for it.

Logic sounds true. But is it true or is it only logic?
Logic is a product of mind. It is the product that tells us if something can be referred as true.

I need to study more about this...
It's a lot of time I don't study classical philosophy... since high school...
Maybe I should get my books and find some answers...

Peace,

Andrash





--------------------
--- Who am I, where is me, when I' am away from myself? --- F. Battiato


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1232903 - 01/20/03 06:26 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Stop being silly; what kind of truth are you looking for?

There is no "Final Truth" - was there a certain truth you were looking for? If you don't know what you're looking for, how can you find it?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlineandrash
The Oceanminder

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 86
Loc: Rome, Italy
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1233265 - 01/20/03 08:40 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

My main question is not actually WHAT is the Truth... but How do you know if something is true or not...
I don't want answers like "the truth is that we are all part of god" or "reality is just an illusion of senses", but what I would like to discuss is what is the process of recognition of truth... is it clearer?

Sorry but it's quite hard to speak about such matters in my own language, in English is even more difficult, but I do appreciate the replies from the shroomery, because it's like a group of friend... even if it's little time that I joined the community, everyone of you has been important with his experience of mind exploration through the shrooms.

Anyway... you say there is no final truth. That's your point of view. But how can you be so sure of this?

Andrash



--------------------
--- Who am I, where is me, when I' am away from myself? --- F. Battiato


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Anonymous

Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1233323 - 01/20/03 08:57 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I've found right now that Mr Mushrooms has already posted a question like this... that thread is very long, so it'll take time to read it all...

I'll be back!

Andrash 




Oddly enough I would have suggested the same course of action.  I wonder why? :wink:

Please don't bump the thread when you find it.  I am still formulating my reply to buttonion et al. :smile:

Cheers


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1233348 - 01/20/03 09:04 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

well as for the questions you presented, there is no truth yet.

Truth only exists once PROOF exists :smile:

As for descerning truth from BS concerning topics which have already been proven, finding truth is easy with internet access and some good critical thinking skills :-D

Good luck, my man. With the "Is there a God" type of questions, I feel that whatever you believe is as good as "True" until proven otherwise. Believers tend to take advantage of this, but these issues are truely subjective until there is objective proof either way.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblethe_Landotter
Gnostic Chaoist

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 340
Loc: R'lyeh
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1233529 - 01/20/03 10:00 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

When Pontius Pilate asked the Christ this question,
the Christ replied with silence.

Nuff said.


--------------------
* * * * * * * * * *
Read the Landotter's Mystical Journey Journal


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1233838 - 01/20/03 12:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

With truth, there is no contradiction. Contradiction is a sign that further investigation is in order. For instance, I remember years ago that I read the statement 'it is mathematically impossible for a bumble bee to fly' (this was used as an argument for the existence of god). My thoughts on the matter are that the mathematics/science used to arrive at the conclusion are false, since in fact bumble bees do fly.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (01/20/03 12:06 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: Evolving]
    #1233849 - 01/20/03 12:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

hehe yeah I've read that bumble-bee thing as well :smile:

No matter what scientists say, we see bees flying around all the time..... its only a matter of time before we figure out what those tricky little bastards are doing :wink: heheh


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineLucidDreams
Soul
Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1234211 - 01/20/03 02:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"This is not necessarily the truth, this is what Wittgenstein would have called an exercise in searching for that which is true enough." -Terence Mckenna

This is The Great Timestream Bifurcation

Read and feel
Eat and choose


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OfflineLucidDreams
Soul
Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1234233 - 01/20/03 02:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

All great truths are paradoxes


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 28 days, 3 hours
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1234268 - 01/20/03 02:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What is the Truth?
I mean, how do you recognize it?




You will recognize it when you no longer need to question what Truth is.

Quote:

A zen teacher would tell me it's the wrong question...




It is not wrong to question any more than it is correct. Question until you can find no more questions to ask...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


Edited by Seuss (01/20/03 02:55 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: What is the Truth? [Re: Seuss]
    #1234377 - 01/20/03 03:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Just because I run, doesn't make me a runner.
But since we are the people who are philosophizing (sp?), does that make us the philosophers of our time?


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OfflineToxicManM
Bite me, it's fun!
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,478
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 8 hours, 5 minutes
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1234516 - 01/20/03 05:03 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I just thought I'd pop in with a link to an interesting essay on truth I just read.


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineSnuffelzFurever
Psychonaut

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 734
Loc: Miami, florida
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: What is the Truth? [Re: andrash]
    #1235148 - 01/20/03 10:47 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

why the need for a Truth?

the Truth, is that there is no need for truth. If you bother yourself trying to understand something so complex, you will never make sense out of it. you cannot put it into words, so if you think with words, you cannot comprehend the entirity of truth. it is a feeling, so it can be felt, but to try to understand it, makes understanding it impossible.


--------------------
"I think it's time we stop
Children, What's the sound,
Everybody look what's going down"


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