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Swami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house

Re: truth?

[Re: Sclorch]
#631058 - 05/14/02 10:25 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

Agreed. Incomprehensible gibberish cloaked as philosophy is still incomprehensible gibberish.

Come on people. Attempting to sound profound is not the same as being profound. Why not share what you personally have discovered so far instead of trying to impress?

--------------------

The proof is in the pudding.

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: Sclorch]
#631092 - 05/14/02 11:25 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

nar.. ugg boots..

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: Swami]
#631096 - 05/14/02 11:40 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

Incomprehensible gibberish? Trying to impress? haha, you've read it all wrong there.. and I am trying to share with you what I have discovered.. it's the fact that people might aswell stop searching for, or claiming knowledge of the absolute truth because if physical evidence can't convince someone of it, what can? gist of the incoherant rambling is this: like everything, the absolute truth is constantly changing (and thats the truth haha) .. Come on people, screw your heads on..

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Nomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#631103 - 05/14/02 11:57 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

I choose the truth that suits my purpose, not that which the universe tricks me into believing.

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: Nomad]
#631120 - 05/15/02 12:44 AM (23 years, 8 months ago)

nice 1

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Sclorch
Clyster

Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness

Re: truth?

[Re: Nomad]
#631243 - 05/15/02 04:35 AM (23 years, 8 months ago)

*squish squash*
"Hey Joe Bob! Toss me that thar muck rake."
*squish squash*
"Nothin' like squashing aroun' in the pig pen on a nice spring day. Ahh..."

--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: Swami]
#632057 - 05/15/02 04:27 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

So, Swami.. If someone or something showed you physical evidence of the absolute truth, would you believe it to be the absolute truth?

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#632170 - 05/15/02 05:43 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#632190 - 05/15/02 06:07 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

I know I'm not Swami, but what is the absolute truth? Is this what you earlier referred to as "the answer to why we are here, why the universe exists, blah blah, etc..."

What kind of evidence do you have in mind? You stated, "the supporting evidence is top notch, being 100% correct according to frank shanks." and "The so called evidence is the 100% correct evidence of what the truth is.." Who is Frank Shanks, and what is his standard for 'top notch evidence'?

I prefer grain based substrates, they don't stink up the kitchen.

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vivid
Stranger

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 1,888
Loc: Berkeley, California

Re: truth?

[Re: ]
#632192 - 05/15/02 06:08 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

if anyone thought had physical evidence of the "truth" i would surely laugh my fucking ass of at them.

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: ]
#632218 - 05/15/02 06:30 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

What kind of evidence do you have in mind? You stated, "the supporting evidence is top notch, being 100% correct according to frank shanks." and "The so called evidence is the 100% correct evidence of what the truth is.." Who is Frank Shanks, and what is his standard for 'top notch evidence'?

Frank shanks is someone I just made up to indicate a person or thing showing you the 100% absolute truthful evidence of why (insert question about universe here).. For instance.. if frank shanks showed you physical evidence as to why the universe exists and why we exist and all that and claimed that it is the 100% truth(which it happened to be).. would you believe it to be the absolute truth to those answers?

Examples of evidence could be frank shanks taking you in his space ship to the center of the universe and showing you and alien pressing buttons and pulling leavers because the universe is actually a (computer?)game this alien made up and hes playing it.. and the alien tells you you're just part of the computer game hes playing and proves it to you.. do you believe it to be the absolute truth? ..and yes I just made that up..

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: vivid]
#632228 - 05/15/02 06:37 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

That's a picture of Earth

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: ]
#632240 - 05/15/02 06:47 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

Earth is pretty sweet.. but how is that picture the absolute truth?.. why not post a picture of the sun? or the moon? or the whole universe for that matter..

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#632247 - 05/15/02 06:55 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

Its not the absolute truth. Its a piece of it. Absolute truth is subjective from our perspective.

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#632250 - 05/15/02 06:57 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

How about this? Its the Andromeda galaxy.

I think its pretty

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deep_umbra
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109

Re: truth?

[Re: ]
#632275 - 05/15/02 07:26 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Its not the absolute truth. Its a piece of it. Absolute truth is subjective from our perspective.

Yeah, my big toe is a piece of it aswell.. did you know that? the pictures aren't really relevant.. or should I post an image of my big toe?

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#632306 - 05/15/02 08:14 PM (23 years, 8 months ago)

Go for it

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hongomon
old hand

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 21 years, 9 months

Re: truth?

[Re: ]
#632406 - 05/16/02 12:32 AM (23 years, 8 months ago)

That galaxy is absolutely pretty.

Searching for some personal ideals of truth is an important part of my life. However, I do agree with you, Deep Umbra, that claiming to know some deep truth, or trying to convey it to another (heat transfer?) is pointless.

hongomon

Edited by hongomon (05/16/02 12:36 AM)

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Anonymous

Re: truth?

[Re: hongomon]
#632489 - 05/16/02 03:08 AM (23 years, 8 months ago)

That's not even the galaxy we live in. It's far far away.

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Nomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month

Re: truth?

[Re: deep_umbra]
#632558 - 05/16/02 04:27 AM (23 years, 8 months ago)

I like this thread.

Examples of evidence could be frank shanks taking you in his space ship to the center of the universe and showing you and alien pressing buttons and pulling leavers because the universe is actually a (computer?)game this alien made up and hes playing it.. and the alien tells you you're just part of the computer game hes playing and proves it to you.. do you believe it to be the absolute truth?

Well.. if something like this would happen to, say, Shroomism, he would probably just say he knew that already, and continue with whatever he was doing before Frank Shanks came along. On the other hand, if this happened to, say, Swami (damn, I love that you have these stereotypical beings here at the Shroomery

), he would probably declare himself mentally insane. The point is that the only absolute objective undeniable truth involved is: "Frank Shanks showed me aliens that played a computer game." Anything else, including things like "Aliens exist" or "The universe is a computer game" would be an interpretation, and as such, not necessarily true or false. I would argue that experience is the only truth (i.e. the truth is within you), and that distinctions like "true" or "false" don't make sense when we are dealing with an interpretation. When stated as a model, however, an interpretation could be "good" or "bad", depending if it makes predictions that become true (that is, can be experienced).

For example... (cross-referencing threads again)

When I first experienced ego-loss, I decided that the assumption that my outer layers of skin are where "Me" ends and "The Universe" begins, is a very, very arbitrary one. When Swami made the same experience, he was willing to attest to himself, basically, something equal to braindeath ("complete neuronal disruption" was the exact term). Now, no criticism there. Swami is absolutely entitled to his theory. But I argue that the only truth involved is: "There is a state of ego-loss." Everything else is interpretation, and, as such, cannot be true or false. A good interpretation of ego-loss, however, would be one that shows an easy way to experience ego-loss for everybody. Neither of us can do that. So there.

Yet I think that a lot of pain could be spared if we would just stop arguing which is the true model of the universe. Maybe - just maybe - we could, then, enjoy other people's ideas as genuine human attempts to make sense of a universe that doesn't make sense. Swami's ideas about ego-loss, for example, gave me a good laugh.

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