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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: thePatient]
    #896531 - 09/21/02 01:33 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

It wasn't me that removed your unprecious mushroom. That sort of thing has no interest to me.


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The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (09/21/02 01:44 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #896535 - 09/21/02 01:35 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Sorry, I forgot that "real" psychics cannot "operate" in the presence of skeptics.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisiblethePatient
Criminal Bodhisattva
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Registered: 07/07/02
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Loc: Indiana
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Swami]
    #896536 - 09/21/02 01:35 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I never accused you. And i dont find it precious at all.


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Swami]
    #896537 - 09/21/02 01:36 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Albino Jesus said:
if no third party can verify such beliefs, how can they be determined truths? they must be dismissed as mere beliefs.

You said you don't believe it [telepathy] in the first place. A test just shows to *affirm* your belief. Wouldn't it be more productive if you took an interest in investigating your belief [doesn't have to be on telepathy]? Try to find out for yourself besides just looking at a test.

Swami said:
I suppose those third-parties that wanted to verify the "cold-fusion" claims were pretty pathetic scientists....


*LOL Not at all. Proactiveness is what I'm referring to in regards to beliefs (ie: about telepathy). Are we going to sit back and be an armchair to our beliefs? What does that imply, both ways, between a skeptic and a believer? Trust and its alignment to spheres of trust.

That's my angle on the invested beliefs.

Edit: oops


Edited by Calen (09/21/02 01:37 AM)


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896569 - 09/21/02 01:52 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

In reply to:

You said you don't believe it [telepathy] in the first place. A test just shows to *affirm* your belief. Wouldn't it be more productive if you took an interest in investigating your belief [doesn't have to be on telepathy]? Try to find out for yourself besides just looking at a test.






this post doesn't even make any sense. if a respectable scientist encountered someone who claimed to be psychic, and gave a shit enough to test them thoroughly and repeatedly, and found no evidence to the contrary, he would most likely then proceed to discover how this phenomenon works. if he found a mechanism, he'd write reports and papers for journals, perhaps even a book. it would be an amazing discovery. when such a scientist does this, and I have the opportunity to review his work, I'll be elated. until then, the psychics can keep begging me to believe them.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896570 - 09/21/02 01:52 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

thanks to stupid forum errors, my last post was made in triplicate


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



Edited by Albino_Jesus (09/21/02 01:56 AM)


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason"
    #896575 - 09/21/02 01:57 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

*LOL Carry on then. You just defined trust.

edit: Not a problem


Edited by Calen (09/21/02 01:58 AM)


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896588 - 09/21/02 02:06 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I can trust reason.
if such scientist didn't give me reason to believe his findings were accurate, I wouldn't trust them.

"X is true because you should just believe me" doesn't fly with me.

"X is true, based on points/observations A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H, which are all clear, coherent, logical, consistent and based on a scientific method which works to eliminate errors" does.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
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Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #896653 - 09/21/02 02:41 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I can trust reason.
if such scientist didn't give me reason to believe his findings were accurate, I wouldn't trust them.


Your example of 'the' scientist is based on a third-party source. That's invested trust based on an implicit honor system external to your own. That's reasonable?

"X is true, based on points/observations A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H, which are all clear, coherent, logical, consistent and based on a scientific method which works to eliminate errors" does.

But you're not there to actually see the process of that great scientist testing the purported psychic medium. You can trust [scientific] reason ~ but can you tell, from reading the prestigious science journal, if that scientist, who's test debunked psychics, is personally 'biased' or not?


Edited by Calen (09/21/02 02:47 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896661 - 09/21/02 02:49 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

More tired old ground, but you are a newbie...

But you're not there to actually see the process of that great scientist testing the purported psychic medium. You can trust [scientific] reason ~ but can you tell, from reading the prestigious science journal, if that scientist, who's test debunked psychics, is personally 'biased' or not?

Why would you possibly assume that ALL scientist are biased against metaphysics?

There is no worldwide conspiracy to suppress psychic powers. If there was any substance, it would be revealed. Read up. Even the best that scientists biased IN FAVOR of psychic powers can come up with is something like 0.001% of an effect which can be explained in many ways. Hardly convincing at all.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (09/21/02 03:07 AM)


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896665 - 09/21/02 02:52 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

In reply to:

But you're not there to actually see the process of that great scientist testing the purported psychic medium. You can trust [scientific] reason ~ but can you tell, from reading the prestigious science journal, if that scientist, who's test debunked psychics, is personally 'biased' or not?




I'm not even fucking talking about "debunking" psychics. I'm talking about finding a mechanism for telepathy. no one has yet, and many have tried.


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Swami]
    #896685 - 09/21/02 03:02 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

More tired old ground, but you are a newbie...

Who? :wink:

Why would you possible assume that ALL scientist are biased against metaphysics?

I never did. I asked a question based on an angle of reasonable doubt vs trust.

There is no worldwide conspiracy to suppress psychic powers. If there was any substance, it would be revealed. Read up. Even the best that scientists biased IN FAVOR of psychic powers can come up with is something like 0.001% of an effect which can be explained in many ways. Hardly convincing at all.


Where did I say it was?  I'm not concern with 'the' scientitsts who are proponents are not.  That is not the focus at all.  I've clarified it some posts ago.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Swami]
    #896687 - 09/21/02 03:04 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

I got this song stuck in my head for some reason...

"Tag Team back again
check and direct and let's begin
Party on party people let me hear some noise
DC's in the house jump jump rejoice
There's a party over here
a party over there
Wave your hands in the air
Shake your deriere
These three words when you're gettin' busy
Whoomp there it is"

(Sorry for straying... proceed with the kabobbing...)


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Sclorch]
    #896698 - 09/21/02 03:12 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

*applauds sclorch for some much needed comic relief*

in the 3rd grade, my negro bus driver played that song every day on the ride home  :cool:


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader



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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #896701 - 09/21/02 03:14 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

"Debunk" does have a negative connotation, but to skeptics, I've seen - it's described as such all the time and use it to back up their 'own beliefs on such subjects based on the uh 'studies'.

Anyways, if I wanted to know if psychics are real, I find out for myself. That's motto. Not even test that say otherwise is going to deter me.

I'm not going to place my trust on somebody's else's 'acceptable' methods of investigation.


BTW - this forum is whacking out it seems

I'm out like a lightbulb


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896704 - 09/21/02 03:16 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

You said you don't believe it [telepathy] in the first place. A test just shows to *affirm* your belief. Wouldn't it be more productive if you took an interest in investigating your belief [doesn't have to be on telepathy]? Try to find out for yourself besides just looking at a test.

Huh? How does one investigate one's belief without testing it? So instead of testing a claimed psychic's ability which would get to the heart of the matter, instead I should scratch my head and ponder, "Hmm, why do I not believe in far-fetched unproven ideas?" Yes, that is VERY productive. All science should operate that way.

How to possibly make this any clearer. Skeptics don't believe because they haven't witnessed it. The way for them to believe is to witness it. I know this is too straight-forward and uncomplicated.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Sclorch]
    #896706 - 09/21/02 03:17 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

WooT! Time for a phatty!


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Swami]
    #896708 - 09/21/02 03:19 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

How to possibly make this any clearer. Skeptics don't believe because they haven't witnessed it. The way for them to believe is to witness it. I know this is too straight-forward and uncomplicated

You lost me here.


:laugh:hehehehehheehhee (I couldn't hold that one in) 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Calen]
    #896711 - 09/21/02 03:20 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

You read my mind. Now I believe!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
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Re: "Sometimes truth defies reason" [Re: Swami]
    #896716 - 09/21/02 03:22 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Whoa.. that post was for Ablino Jesus. I clearly stated who I was responding to.

Sorry for the mixup.

alright.. I"M OUT or else I'll never leave!


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