Question: Why did Shamanism Fail to protect a certain tribe from being conquered by another tribe?
I have thought out every aspect of this argument and completely acknowledge the question at hand. I have spent at least 3 hours contemplating my argument before placing it. This is not an emotional response. But a clearly thought out response.
Swami,
What kind of shamanism are you referring to? Curanderismo, Brujeria, African Voodo, Jewish Cabalism, Buddhist Tantricism, Shinto, Siberian/Inuit shamanism or just the ability to divine the future and know where ones enemy is? Or are you referring to the Europeans conquering the Amerindians? Your fallacy in this form of thinking is that you don?t understand your own question. Please, excuse my bluntness. I mean the Universal You not YOU. The question is so broad and misunderstood that no one has given you an answer. Well, I?ll try my best.
Here is the gist of what you are hypothesizing: Because one culture/race conquered another, and the conquered culture/race believed in shamans and those shamans failed to protect the conquered, shamanism is fraudulent. If this is referring to the Amerindian Cultures and its assimilation/annihilation by the European Cultures then this is my answer.
One, the conquering race, Europeans, did believe in shamanism/witchcraft. They believed it so much they stopped at nothing until they wiped it out as much as they could. Control cannot be had with free thinkers like shamans. They are not as easily persuaded to follow like sheep. Only a good sheep follows the Shepard. How could a good sheep make its own path? That must clearly be a bad sheep. Thinking done in the head of a Catholic of old. For fear of heretics is the driving force of the Catholic Priests or Prophets, they are the same.
Two, the Indian races were being conquered already by one another whilst building City-States Empires. For you to cognize the conquering of one over another and shamanism not being a part of the process is a fallacy in itself. I assure you shamanism was utilized to the fullest by the conquering and the conquered in these City-State-Empire Assimilation Conquests of the Americas. These City States used Shamanism to conquer neighboring tribes whose shamans were not as powerful as the city state shamans. When conquering the neighboring tribes they used different ?non-lethal? ways to bring back as many new slaves/citizens as possible.
Three, the Catholic Church knew about witchcraft and how to counteract the forces of such crafts. Here's an example of shamanism in the catholic service. When the priest waves around the burning incense or ashes that is for cleansing the church's ceremonial area, that is a form of shamanism or witchcraft, whichever you choose to call it. Why do you think the Catholics were so afraid of the Witches? Because the witches knew the truth and what the Catholics were spewing out to keep control and taxes flowing in is not the truth. I assure you there was more to the Bible than the King James Version. The Alter or Ceremonial Table is another form of shamanism. Catholics use an Alter so do shamans, huh, go figure. The Catholics knew how to counteract witchcraft, i.e. the blocking of seeing where your enemy is or the Blocking of the evil eye. This can be done by wearing a white ribbon on the left wrist. Look at Madonna next time you see her. She always has her protection on for the evil eye since she is in the spotlight. Out of the entire Native Populous less than one percent were shamans. Just like college graduates in the world today, they made up a small minority of the total population. Therefore only a few people in the world were/are shamans, whether they were Indian, European, black, red, yellow, blue, green or whatever had shamans in their nations and either utilized them for the good of the whole or denounced them as devils or frauds or praised them as Prophets suggests to me that shamanism has played a major role in shaping humanities social fabrics.
The ?Technologies? you mention like black powder were invented by shamans for shamanistic purposes, i.e. driving away evil spirits. With the knowledge of Roman tactics, witchcraft, black powder and diseases, Europeans were able to subdue the Amerindians City States with minimal numbers. To stay in power they had to commit religious warfare on the natives to keep the control and use misinformation to make them ignorant to the truths they were forgetting.
Lets start with the beginning. Shamanism is almost as old as man. Just because one can utilize ?supernatural? forces doesn?t mean they will use them in an ethical and beneficial manner. Look up the definitions of a Curandero, (healer) and a Brujo (sorcerer). The former uses power for healing the latter for hurting. For you to think that the American Indians were the only shamans is a major fallacy in its own right. The Catholic Church was as wicked a witch as there ever was. The wicked witch of the east. LOL. You see, you are not considering an issue. The Catholics had witches and wizards or ones that could ?see?, divine the future, and call upon the counsel of spirits or ?saints? of their own, as does the CIA today. The Catholic ?witches? knew as much as the ?native? shamans did, and more, i.e. gunpowder. We will get to that one here in a minute. They had been battling with European witchcraft for centuries and centuries. Before the Catholics, it was the Roman Shamans or soothsayers battling with the whole ?known? world for the one thing that man is always hungry for, POWER>. For you to suggest that because the Europeans conquered this land and stole it from the Indians means that shamanism is fraudulent is just not fair to the rest of the shamans in the world. LOLOLO. Man, Do you not think that it is remotely possible that European Shamans were battling with Native shamans for this land as well? It?s also probable that the European Shamans had more ?experience? in totally conquering a nation. They learned from the best, ROME>. As does the US>or as I like to call it ROME III. Rome the third. Or the Third Reich>Empire. That's what it all boils down to, POWER AND CONTROL. Who ever has the most powerful shamans/Evil rules the world. That is the foreshadowing to the CIA>
Let?s go back to ancient China. Black powder was invented to drive evil spirits/forces/entities out of the village every New Year as a way of cleansing the village of the evil that was dragged into it by everyday life. Would you not agree then that the invention of black powder is a form of shamanism? Then European Alchemist/wizards took the black powder and turned it into gunpowder via shamanism or through communion with spirits/forces/entities. In the ~700?s the city of Byzantium was being invaded by the Muslims. An Assyrian engineer came up with what is know as Greek Fire. It was a medieval flamethrower that would keep an invading navy at bay. And that's just what it did. The Greek Fire totally annihilated the Muslim Ships in the harbor. I?ll bet the house that the Assyrian Engineer utilized Syrian Rue as a Helper spirit in figuring out how to keep the Turks at bay. To this day they cannot replicate Greek Fire? With what the known ingredients were, they still don?t understand how it ignited upon contact with water. Truly, witchcraft or Alchemy? Some may call it Technology. But it?s not technology when someone receives the answers through spiritual contact rather than trial error and the scientific method, that?s shamanism. And through shamanism the same results or answers can be known as through modern technology. How far apart are they? One states a scientific method the other states the existence of ?supernatural? forces. They both exist simultaneously, IMHO>
Ancient American City State Empires, i.e. Aztec, Mayan, and Incan, were based and built with fear, witchcraft and power-lust just like the Roman, and Roman Catholic Empires were built. They were all built with the blood and bones of conquered surrounding peoples. Had the American City States had a few more centuries to develop and finish assimilating the surrounding peoples to Rome?s standards of civilization they might not have been so easy to conquer. They were conquered each one by some of the most cunning and unscrupulous men there ever where. The utilization of the neighboring tribes against the City States was one of the key factors of their success. You have to remember that the total conquistador numbers where in the thousands whilst the populous of the Americas were in the millions. They did not single handily conquer the Americas. They did it with Native Help. Just like in North America when the English had their Native Allies and the French had theirs and they managed to kill one another until some tribes vanished before the country gained its freedom from England.
The diseases and black powder were the other main factors. The diseases could not be dealt with by just administering a plant. Most were viruses and antibiotics will not cure a virus. No, the people that are here today who, like myself, are descendents of those ?conquered? peoples are the descendents of the few that were not killed by the diseases. The few that miraculously did not die were saved by shamanism. Other wise the diseases would have wiped us ALL out. And they did not thanks to shamanism Not a medicinal plant but true healing. I say that is enough right there to show that somehow the diseases didn?t kill all of us. Apparently, some of us survived or I wouldn?t be here.
Upon assimilation and total utilization of every known aspect of how to gain and keep power, these American City States had Brujos or evil shamans that used Datura for power. The City-State shamans were more powerful shamans than the ones that lived in the villages of the conquered neighboring tribes. Except for a few exceptions. The Caribs of Panama/ Costa Rica /Colombia were never conquered until Modern Times. Due to their ferocious reputations as headhunters and voodoo witch doctors that could shrink a head. Also, some tribes escaped even knowing about the Spanish invasion or white people until the twentieth century, secluded in the depths of the vast and almost never ending Amazon. I would say that those tribes of Amazonians that were "discovered" in the 1970's had Shamans who were very powerful and knowledgeable enough to disappear into the Amazon when the proverbial Shiite hit the fan.
When the first Conquistadors started to try to take over these city states they realized they needed local help, they had to use the help of the other tribes that the City states were assimilating into their own. Those neighboring tribes lost thousands or warriors trying to free themselves from one tyrant in place of another. Both the American City State and Rome had the same goals. Conquer and Control all that they could. Then After ?using? the neighboring tribes the Conquistadors pulled a classic power maneuver. Screw your partner over so you can have it all.
The way the Catholics conquered the peoples was through shamanism. Religious war. The Catholics first make it a crime punishable by damnation to practice your native Religion because it is devil worship. Do you think that the Catholic Church and its government didn?t know about witchcraft? I assure you they knew allot more than they let on about witchcraft, shamanism and how to counter act the forces of witchcraft or shamanism. Hell, they had been trying to get rid of ?heretics? since their beginning. If one is trying to ?see? where their enemy is, a ?block? can be placed to stop that person from ?seeing? their enemy if their enemy knows how to ?block? them from ?seeing? and is more powerful. YOU SEE> Just because one is a shaman doesn?t mean that they are the most powerful shaman. Just like athletes some are stronger than others.
The Catholics knew how to counteract the ?witchcraft? of the American City states. They knew how to counteract the witchcraft of the Old World and now they understand the witchcraft of the New World, isn't that right, NEO.lOL. I assure you that there are passages in the bible that are as powerful an incantation as the Mayan book of the dead. The Lords Prayer is a powerful protection incantation. If you don?t believe me say it the next time you are confronted with evil. So it all boils down to the conqueror having more ?power, knowledge, or shamanism? than the conquered. Not whether or not shamanism works because it did and does still today. It worked when it was used to conquer this land and it will be used to defend it as well.
What my final conclusion states is this.
The three main factors contributing to such an enormous and overwhelming conquering by the Europeans are Black Powder, Disease and a Knowledge of Witchcraft. The black powder is a form of shamanism or alchemy or witchcraft disguised as technology. Then when utilized as a weapon that witchcraft goes from being a useful tool in exorcizing evil to creating evil. Do you see the relationships. The black powder is a neutral power/force it knows no prejudice. When used for good it helps the village when used for evil it harms the village, yet when used for defense it saves the village. Just like the shamans powers when used for evil they harm when used for good they heal and protect. Those powers are as neutral as the black powder and ball they know no prejudice. The European conquistadors had in their possession the foreknowledge to counteract some but not all the powers that the native shamans possessed.
The diseases were mostly Viral infections which can't be treated with plants or antibiotics. They had to be "removed" and that takes a very powerful shaman. Not all Shamans can do everything. Some have certain skills in this and others in that. One is a healer the other a hurter. The diseases didn't kill all of us. Miraculously some of us survived. Or I wouldn't be here typing. Those of us were saved by shamanism. How could some of us survive from an invasion of diseases we had no immunities for. A miracle? No shamans.
The catholics knew about witchcraft/shamanism and also knew how to counteract those forces. Therefore, battles occured in this reality and other realities. Through, religous warfare the Catholic "shamans" defeated the city state shamans. Witchcraft when used for power is almost an undefeatable opponent. Unless you know how to counteract those powers, you will not survive.
These factors along with an adamant desire to control, are the reasons why the Amerindians lost this land to the Europeans. However, Not all was lost. Some native shamans were so powerful that they took their people into remote lands not to be discovered until centuries later, or not at all. I believe that the most powerful shamans lead their people through portals into another world that is in the same space as this world but is phased out of time slightly. Right now they are walking through us and we through them. I "saw" one the other day. And she looked fine, not like some conquered "fool" swami would like us to believe. But like a proud and noble woman, of Choctaw Blood.
The answer to your question is that shamanism did not fail. The Amerindians form of shamanism was not as powerful as European witchcraft when it came to Conquering Lands. The European Witches were more powerful Shamans when it came to POWERLUST>
OFF the subject but still pertains to the post:
CIA> When 9/11 went down and they showed us the Bin Laden Videos. He stated that one of their "holy" men (shamans) had a prophetic vision in a dream of fire and the two buildings going down two years before it happened. He told the man to keep quiet and not speak or think of it again as not to alert any one to their plans. Why. For Fear that his "holy" man would not be powerful enough to keep the knowledge inside his head and it would be extracted by US "shamans" hired by the CIA. I know it sounds crazy, take it any way you want. This is the way I see it going down. The US uses psychics/shamans/whatever you want to call them for intelligence purposes. And their enemies do too. The spy world is nothing compared to the battles that go on in other levels of this reality. I know. Sounds crazy, but so did going to the moon in the 20's. And so did sailing around the world without falling of the edge in the 1400's.
Medicinebag
Edited by medicinebag (11/16/03 06:52 PM)
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