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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #4921585 - 11/11/05 09:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I think that the neo-shaman finds mainstream spiritual approaches just as valid in his/her toolbox as any other practice.

For example I like to use Rational Emotive therapy techniques on myself. I believe in Christ or Buddha consciousness and consider myself a Taoist by nature. All this combined with a psychedelic (tool) practice for healing and reprogramming my culturally conditioned bio-computer. And any other thing that works no matter where I find it.

Core shamanism?

I have found personally that the study of any skill that can be applied broadly has core principles. It's not in a technique. It's in a living principle that the power for healthy living is found. There is a core. IMO and to my satisfaction, through my explorations, so far, we are all one, all manifestation is from one source. That is a principle that I base my practice on.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/11/05 09:43 AM)

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Neo-shamanism *DELETED* [Re: a_h_w]
    #4922030 - 11/11/05 12:23 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4922078 - 11/11/05 12:36 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well it's just a name and has no power or meaning other than what one gives it.

Doesn't really matter to me what it is called actually. But shamanism is the term that comes along and we can use the word to talk to others that share similar interests.

So if someone wants to call it shamanism or neo-shamanism or bullshit it doesn't really matter now does it. What does seem to matter is the experience one is having, doing whatever they are doing, while calling it whatever they call it.

I see a awful lot of arguments about what something or other is called. But to the one having experience that means something to them, they soon learn not to care too much about what someone labels something.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4924028 - 11/11/05 09:09 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

There is no neo-shamanism. The cornerstone of shamanism in cultures all around the world is that one has a set of tools and techniques that one uses to find ones own spiritual path to healing and happiness. There is a basic animist philosophy underlying it all. So, your definition of neo-shamanism is nothing more than shamanism. One does not need to bang a drum or shake a rattle to practice. These toys are mostly used for drama, though there are cultures that can use drums to create a trance state. When watching National Geographic one never sees the counseling that the shaman gives before or after the ceremony...one sees only the drama. Shamanism is merely a spiriitual path to healing the self and others based in self discovery.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4925399 - 11/12/05 10:25 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

word


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4925708 - 11/12/05 12:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

On the "Ayahuasca Forum" we have posted to there are several knowledgeable people, but there are also posers and snobs. Most of the people there who claim to have had a "traditional" introduction to shamanism most likely were corresponding with someone over the internet or dealing with posers with money likely involved. The derision towards core shamanism and "neo-shamanism" there is based in ignorance and self importance. One discovers the path through through experiencing unhappiness and personal reflection...not by banging a drum.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4925846 - 11/12/05 01:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

word

My path work has never been stronger or better. But to an outsider without an inner knowledge, my path, what I do, might seem like mere drug addiction or misuse. Each person follows a tortured path of their own evolution, with all it's corresponding ups and downs. I figured out for myself that everyone is on a spiritual path of one sort or another. My guess at ultimate path or truth is just as likely to be wrong as the next guy. So for each one of us we can choose and not be wrong. We can choose to lead ourselves or follow others or both or anything, and we can call it anything or nothing. If it's true, as I believe, we are all manifesting from the source, then we are all magicians and shamans, weather we know it consciously or not.

This constant battle over words and systems and who's for real and who isn't is besides the point. And once you see you can see that, and you begin to share your experience from your heart in a more humble and courageous way, and you realize that you are just a man, and no more important or unimportant than anything else in this world of wonders.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4925872 - 11/12/05 01:53 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"what I do, might seem like mere drug addiction or misuse"

Entheogens are mostly medically harmless and non-addictive. I can see no negative side to their use unless they are used to do harm in some way.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4925889 - 11/12/05 01:57 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Right, but tell that to the police and the priests. The point is that over at a place like the Ayahuasca forums I will have to defend my practice because it doesn't agree with someone elses strange belief system. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4925991 - 11/12/05 02:29 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"Right, but tell that to the police and the priests."

We could move to New Mexico.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4926005 - 11/12/05 02:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

My shamanic brothers and I have been discussing buying a home together with our families.  :thumbup:

Interesting thing is when I left Seattle I was headed to New Mexico to try my luck when I got waylaid here. Now it's 17 years later.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4926047 - 11/12/05 02:50 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I would have thought they would have made the things legal in the northwest quicker than in the southwest. It is a cool situation to keep an eye on. It could be used a precedent in other states someday. The only way it would become legal in Kentucky is if you could get some of the preachers using it...maybe hand some out in church.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4926894 - 11/12/05 08:21 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

"There is no neo-shamanism. "

while its true that neo-shamanism is still shamanism, that doesnt make the term meaningless. Neo-shamanism is just "new" shamanism... shamanism practiced by a new generation who are "winging it" and experimenting with brand new techniques as opposed to being instructed in the oral tradition of a tribe...

so i see it


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4928305 - 11/13/05 08:13 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I just tend to view neo-shamanism as just "shamanism". The term "neo" tend to confuse some people into believing it means "invalid".


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4928313 - 11/13/05 08:18 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I like the term Neo-shamanism. It defines my path better that just shamanism because not much of my practice is like traditional shamanism. But it doesn't really matter. I like Castanedas term Warriors path. Or Man of Knowledge is good to. You might even come up with a better one for yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4928336 - 11/13/05 08:32 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well the view that you subscribe to is in keeping with a shamanic lifestyle...so why rename something that was already named. I think the Siberians chose an excellent word to describe their beliefs and practice. A shaman may practice what you call "traditional", but all people in primitive cultures are responsible for their own spiritual growth. Ideas like the accumulation of personal power and guidance through dreams and visions is common to all of shamanic cultures, and practiced by the members of the culture. The shaman just lends a guiding hand. So, your practice is not dissimilar to this way.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4928346 - 11/13/05 08:39 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I take your point. I am comfortable with the term. I use it freely amoung my friends here at home. But we are all on the same page. Our paths have a different look but the principles and foundation are the same.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4928350 - 11/13/05 08:42 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

This does not mean that I call myself a shaman. I do not want to be the "Grand Poobah" of anything.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4928370 - 11/13/05 08:56 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Well why not? Is your definition of shaman synonymous with "grand Poobah"? Mine is not. I would call you a shaman or a practitioner of shamanism without putting you on a pedestal. You are still just a man like me. But we share an outlook and path defined by the term shamanism. We can use the term to communicate with each other.

Or, I in my personal work am my own shaman. I don't need to label myself that if others might not understand. Maybe that's what you mean.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4928380 - 11/13/05 09:03 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

No...but other people think so. I would rather just call myself Grand Poobah....maybe I will. I have a title now!


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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