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Anonymous

Where Shamanism fails.
    #2101103 - 11/13/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

There is a way to live with earth and a way not to live with earth.  We chose the way of earth.

And yet some aspects of Shamanism fail miserably.  One such case is the "ghost dance" of the Sioux.

"In early October of 1890, Kicking Bear, a Minneconjou, visited Sitting Bull at Standing Rock. He told him of the visit he and his brother-in-law, Short Bull, had made to Nevada to visit Wovoka. They told him of the great number of other Indians who were there as well. They referred to Wovoka as the Christ and told of the Ghost Dance that they had learned and the way that the Christ had flown over them on their horseback ride back to the railroad tracks, teaching them Ghost Dance songs. And they told him of the phophecy that, next spring, when the grass was high, the earth would be covered with new soil, burying all the white men.The new soil would be covered with sweet grass, running water and trees; the great herds of buffalo and wild horses would return. All Indians who danced the Ghost Dance would be taken up into the air and suspended there while the new earth was being laid down. Then they would be replaced there, with the ghosts of their ancestors, on the new earth. Only Indians would live there then."

link

Taken up in the air?  :rolleyes:

What were they thinking?

Obviously there are times when Shamanism is a dismal failure.

But does that mean that it is always a failure?

While the vast majority of natives were rubbed out on this continent we are still here.  And many of us follow the old ways.  Will we outlast the whites?  No one can answer that question with any kind of authority.

Mitakuye Oyasin

Epelo

MM 


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Offlinesirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
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Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: ]
    #2101112 - 11/13/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

That sounds more like a motivational speech to me. Although, not very effective. :frown: 


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: ]
    #2101124 - 11/13/03 12:14 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

While the vast majority of natives were rubbed out on this continent we are still here.

And we (the Wasichu) are working on that. :wink: 


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: sirreal]
    #2101137 - 11/13/03 12:18 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

Yes, it culminated in the slaughter of nearly 300 Sioux at Wounded Knee. (the wound that will not heal)


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Anonymous

Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: Swami]
    #2101148 - 11/13/03 12:21 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

:lol:

Kola lecel ecun wo!
Hecanu ki, nitunkasila waniyang u ktelo.


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Anonymous

to all my relations [Re: ]
    #2101547 - 11/13/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

The battle of wounded knee. Is that the one of the battles Black Elk was in?
I dont think shamanism is realy a failur. If it gets people threw some tuff times it did its job. Even todays medicine isnt always successful.
Black elks prophacies came true if I am not mistaken. He was the man who talked about the land being taken over by roads and railways, right? He also talked about a new tribe that will carey on the tradidition. The Rainow Family. people of all colors walking the good path.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: ]
    #2101559 - 11/13/03 02:02 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

Kola lecel ecun wo!
Hecanu ki, nitunkasila waniyang u ktelo.


Tatanka.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinejiva
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Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 141
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Last seen: 11 years, 29 days
Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: Swami]
    #2102273 - 11/13/03 05:19 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

Perhaps you're taking it too literal?


--------------------
i am another you


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Where Shamanism fails. [Re: ]
    #2103268 - 11/13/03 10:02 PM (13 years, 23 days ago)

Thank you Mr. Mushrooms! You brought out exactly what i was thinking!  :laugh: :grin:

:thumbup: 


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What?


Edited by Zero7a1 (11/13/03 10:04 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: to all my relations [Re: ]
    #2106163 - 11/14/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Black Elk was a great wichasha wakon (holy man) that lived during the Messiah Movement that sweep the Plains during the last part of the 19th century.  He wasn't at Wounded Knee though.  Most of the Sioux that were there were murdered.

Swami:  Buffalo?  :lol:

Le Cannupa ki le wakan yelo.

Epelo


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: to all my relations [Re: ]
    #2106366 - 11/14/03 02:52 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Sorry that my Lakota is so limited, but I gotta start somewhere.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineTheDarkSideof_Paco
Seeker

Registered: 11/10/03
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Re: to all my relations [Re: Swami]
    #2106611 - 11/14/03 04:06 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Im hungry


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"In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us."

Thich Nhat Hanh


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: to all my relations [Re: ]
    #2107632 - 11/14/03 10:18 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Tonka truck Yani wang.


--------------------


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: to all my relations [Re: ]
    #2107650 - 11/14/03 10:24 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Is it true that Swami's Native American name can be translated to 'Throws Like A Girl?'


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: to all my relations [Re: Evolving]
    #2107716 - 11/14/03 10:56 PM (13 years, 22 days ago)

Tee hee, you silly!

*drops voice one octave*

I mean, "Heh heh!"


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: to all my relations [Re: Swami]
    #2108191 - 11/15/03 02:35 AM (13 years, 22 days ago)

"Tonka truck Yani wang. "

heh.. wang.

Anyway..
I think a lot of it was just motivated by hope. They were really confronting a horrible situation.. the only way they knew how to live was being destroyed before their eyes, and they could do nothing about it but die. In such a situation any answer, even one that under normal circumstances you might not agree with, becomes more than welcome


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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Anonymous

Re: to all my relations [Re: Swami]
    #2110183 - 11/15/03 11:17 PM (13 years, 21 days ago)

Hey, you guys are ruining a perfectly good thread.  I want everyone to act serious now.

I mean it.

Really.

Ok?

Good

(cheap imitation ala Enter)

:lol: 


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Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting

Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: to all my relations [Re: ]
    #2113143 - 11/16/03 11:15 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Ok,

First off. After you "die" you don't "die". Those that performed the ghost dance are living right next door to some of you and you can't see them>LOLO. There are a multitude of similar realities running along side this "reality". In those other realities We are living our lives. After the Murderers and Rapist performed their unholy acts in the name of Manifest Destiny, those that were "slain" woke up in the "promised lands" that the elders spoke of. They are living in peace and harmony in a "new" land. I can't prove any of this to you. You will have to "see" them and talk with them yourselves.

Medicinebag Choctaw Nation

P.s. The "Failure" you all are looking for didn't happen. What happened is they shamans made sure that their people would go into that next world. The world that only belongs to them. No one can penetrate its membrane with anger or hatred in their hearts. If you try to you will not see this world. THis world can only be penetrated by those that it was created for. What I am saying is that there are planes of existence, far from "death", right next door to you. In these planes of existence The PEOPLE are residing. Hunting, praying, living their lives without intrusion. Because no POWER hungry individual can enter this realm, it will always be a sanctuary.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: to all my relations [Re: Swami]
    #2113170 - 11/16/03 11:20 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Tee hee, you silly!

*drops voice one octave*

I mean, "Heh heh!" 




:lol: 


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________


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Invisiblemedicinebag
Hunting

Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: to all my relations [Re: medicinebag]
    #2113174 - 11/16/03 11:20 PM (13 years, 20 days ago)

Mr. Mushrooms,

You been watching Thunderheart lately? LOL. I like that movie also. When Jimmy says that line it was great. Yes. We can choose to live with earth or not to live with earth. We choose earth. That line summs up my whole argument. They chose earth. They did not choose to fight to annahilate the whites. They fought to defend themselves after being attacked like animals. Some chose to "leave this realm for a new realm". A new home in earth. Not death like Swami suggests in his post concearning the fraudulence of Shamanism. But Life in a new realm. Where one can spend eternity if they wish. Living with earth. This plane of existence is not going to last much longer. When this plane crashes. You will see the other planes of existence and then get to choose which on suits you.

Medicinebag


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