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InvisibleIcelander
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Neo-shamanism
    #4917138 - 11/10/05 11:26 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

OK, so there, this thing called Neo-Shamanism. They have no history or tradition. They have little or no experience. Yet they seem to be having some success in the traditional goals of shamanism, such as emotional or physical healing. Any one has the potential to become one.

People involved in traditional Shamanism sometimes don't think much of Neo-Shamanism. They think you really can't get the job done in non-traditional ways.

I myself think it's a very good way to get things done. You are doing it for yourself and under your own steam. I think since no one really has a clue what this life is for. Following your own path is quite valid. What do you think?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4917267 - 11/10/05 11:56 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is very interesting. What is the difference between Neo-Shamanism and traditional Shamanism?

I once heard Jim Morrison state that the shaman was one who was pursuing his own fantasies. I like that.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4917398 - 11/10/05 12:33 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

haha...

off topic, but I must mention that I changed my nick on irc an hour ago..
fun reading this now..

just had a funny chat (the confusion of me calling me no-body) ..

ahah! gotta love it! :smile:

"No-one knows!"
-Unknown :P


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: dorkus]
    #4917454 - 11/10/05 12:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

This is a pretty good definition IMO.


Quote:

NeoShamanism is a blending of spiritual and shamanic psychologies, and as such, these principles form its foundation:

We are energetic beings who have free will and choice with respect to our actions.
Our actions and thoughts influence how we lead our lives.

We are born into life as fully loving beings.
We experience some form of primal abandonment early in life and begin doubting our worthiness to be loved.
We fear future abandonment and expend much effort protecting ourselves.
These efforts are largely futile.
We become trapped in a cycle of behaviors that prevents us from being in touch with our true Selves.
The cycle can be broken through awareness then reconnection with our divinity.

Divine reconnection can be initiated either externally, internally, or both. Successful Divine reconnection leads to harmony and fulfillment, heaven on Earth.

NeoShamanism recognizes the understanding that there is no "one" way of doing anything. It is a cliche that there are many paths to enlightenment (reconnecting with our divinity), and it is nonetheless true. It is in this spirit that Neoshamanism blends spiritual and shamanic psychologies together to offer a unique and expanded path of spiritual evolution that while unique is not presented as "the only path."

The benefits of NeoShamanism to the practitioner are many. (By the way, a "practitioner" is anyone who adapts the principles and practices to everyday life-one does not have to formally become a shaman although the avenue is open to anybody!)

Achieving balance and harmony in everyday living
The virtual disappearance of conflict and stress
Happiness
Fulfillment
Physical well-being
A sense of purpose and the means of accomplishing it

NeoShamanism has two goals. The first is to awaken awareness of who a person truly is: the loving Self that is the Divine that is in each one of us. The second goal is to remove the obstacles to reconnecting with that Divinity that is in each of us.

A fuller explanation of how to use NeoShamanism as a "way" or basis for healing is contained in my book, A Tao Of God.





--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBloodNOil
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4917523 - 11/10/05 01:03 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Ice, can you recommend some reading on neo-shamanism?


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It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: BloodNOil]
    #4917589 - 11/10/05 01:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BloodNOil said:
Ice, can you recommend some reading on neo-shamanism?




Unfortunately or fortunately, no I cannot. I was practicing before I ever knew the defination. Any authors I might recommend besides Castaneda and McKenna would make you wonder about me. My shamanic path being personal I took a crooked road getting to the place. But heres a name or three that might just get you thinking.

Quote:

Robert Anton Wilson.

Tim Leary

Stanislav Grof

Jan Fries

E.J. Gold




These guys are or were the real thing IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4918024 - 11/10/05 03:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

For me, the two paths (warrior and shaman) are the most desirable paths of my exiastence (as well). As I stem also more from the traditional way/perspective of shamism, naming the total and whole including of pure nature into existence (being a healer), I also did see 'modern shamans' talk about ufos and extraterrestrials. At first, I did find that quite weird, but now, I am beginning to realize, that once, you found that specific 'way', it does not matter so much, from where it stems from. They all lead to the same and use the same energies and won't 'cut out' or defend each others. Quite fascinating...
Who wrote that quote of yours ?  Are you the auther of 'The Tao of God' ? :laugh: :heart:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4918223 - 11/10/05 03:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Check out the lectures on shamanism. You should find them interesting.
http://futurehi.net/media.html
That quote is from "The Tao of God." :smile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4918325 - 11/10/05 04:19 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

WoW ! :rofl2: :hotidea: It looks so lovely on the first sight... thanks, for that link.. will be interesting for me for sure :smile: :thumbup:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4918902 - 11/10/05 07:08 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

yes neo shamanism is a good path that most on a spiritual path are kind of following, weather they call it that or not...

to me, shamanism is

1. a process of actively gaining power (over our lives, our minds, our selves)
2. the pracitce of dimensional movement, aka. techniques of experiencing various levels or reality

in my daily life i practice neo shamanism mostly through my dreaming, and through practicing the "warriors way"... and mainly just recognizing power when i see it and hunting it down...

i think the seperation of practice from tradition is happening in all the main spiritual paths, not just shamanism...

for example, im also a neo-buddhist, seeking detachment from the ego and clear sight of the nature behing the ten thousand things, practicing meditation and seeking enlightenment, all without any real grounding in buddhist dogma or doctrine.

im also a neo-christian, in that i seek to experience and serve god, while having nothing to do with the bible and the church...

etc etc etc

peace


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineTheQueen
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4919111 - 11/10/05 07:50 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

In regards to knowing what kind of shaman is traditional and what kind is neo-traditional, we can agree that the artist is one who does the required actions of the traditional shaman, because they are expresser's of realities unseen, healing methods, awareness and viable travel towards the novel. Some parts of the traditional shaman are out of date, like the rituals and customs the communities partakes in to show respect to the shaman's many eyes, and how seriously they take their 'seer'. from what i can recall, the shaman is one who one has recovered from their paranoia of reality, thus they share themselves effortlessly and with precise intensity.

The shaman's initiation is started when he travels into the belly of hellish paranoia, greed, lust, fatigue, carelessness, groping, conditional happiness (and where it came from)......Can imagine undergoing that all those hidden feelings of negativity all in one night? You are literally eaten alive, ripped to pieces by hungry landscapes, that go crazier when you cry out in pain at the loneliest points.
The shamans task is to undergo their own abusiveness-- when their agony period is over, to recover from being paranoid about flesh and expressing love are of the up most importance, because if the shaman does not reverse their fears into love, the poison will win and destroy you over time. So to be swift in recovery is sort of the key to this; not hesitating to help your compassion emerge from it's turtle shell- breaking apathy with considerate thoughts of circular universality. Ha Ha Ha it seems hard enough to just survive a day of mediation, let alone knowing the inner workings of Natures Games.

What the shaman is good at is knowing the needs of their people and fulfilling it. they pick up transmissions from sources far off, or up close, and utilize the message in a form of communication- i think 100% of the time, that's what we consider art and artistic talent; this ability to clean your mental place up and invite guests, then propose a collaborative project to these extrastelletory guests- the deal is between your body, your spirit and your mind; and as with any deal, the contract is like a promise. the shaman will SEE what they deem necessary to their collaborative project, and in exchange the vision will be translated through the shaman to be perceived by other powers in the universe.
the Neo-Shaman is a threat to the status Quo, and will be condemned in communities that treat vision as useless hallucinations and nieve.

Nonetheless, thanks for reading this. A great book on this topic, is Terrence Mckenna in The Invisible Landscape. Its a bit steep for the beginner but chop full of more then i spoke about. if your just starting our with this sort of story, i suggest Carlos Castaneda's don Juan's Teachings and Siddhartha Herman Hesse. Really this all comes down to being intuitive, so i suggest Tool: Lateralus as a way to learn how to breath in darkness.


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: TheQueen]
    #4919223 - 11/10/05 08:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Can imagine undergoing that all those hidden feelings of negativity all in one night? You are literally eaten alive, ripped to pieces by hungry landscapes, that go crazier when you cry out in pain at the loneliest points.




Yes.  Ayahuasca under a Shaman.

But I'm no shaman.  :wink:

Great points!


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4919918 - 11/10/05 11:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think that anyone who is taking psychedelics in the modern age and implementing what they learn from their experiences into their everyday life can be considered a shaman, regardless of age, belief, or method.

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
I once heard Jim Morrison state that the shaman was one who was pursuing his own fantasies. I like that.




:thumbup:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4919937 - 11/10/05 11:22 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

^i agree, although traditionally the roll of a shaman was healer/mediator to the spirit world. people like timothy leary stand out as shaman in our culture.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4920314 - 11/11/05 01:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
I think that anyone who is taking psychedelics in the modern age and implementing what they learn from their experiences into their everyday life can be considered a shaman, regardless of age, belief, or method.

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
I once heard Jim Morrison state that the shaman was one who was pursuing his own fantasies. I like that.




:thumbup:




I agree. :tongue: I can just see the traditionalists jumping up and down in fury or dismay. Just maybe though it's because they have become invested in their beliefs and now want to see a return. As middle men they my not want to see their livelihood endangered. Livelihood as in prestige, not just $$.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4921025 - 11/11/05 05:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Check out the lectures on shamanism. You should find them interesting.
http://futurehi.net/media.html






Great link. Thank you.


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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: dorkus]
    #4921093 - 11/11/05 07:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think what separates traditional shamanism and neo-shamanism is that in the former teachings passed directly from one person to another and closed themselves in the meticulously defined tradition of a line.

neo-shamans don't have a line to follow, nor do they learn through direct experience guided by an elder shaman. they collect information from every possible resource, they experiment a wide number and variety of techniques and progressively define a practice of their own.

castaneda's books are quite interesting because in my opinion they convey themselves this transformation that is currently occurring and state very clearly that this happens for the better. ancient shamanism opened the way, no neo-shaman can neglect the inheritance of that knowledge, but we are now moving beyond the obstacles that inhibited ancient shamanism to survive. we are re-working shamanism so as to make it valid and vital again. we are trying our best to save our spirits and the planet itself. we are on the side of life no doubt. ancient shamanism put too much effort in destroying and killing.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: a_h_w]
    #4921111 - 11/11/05 07:35 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

a_h_w said:
I think what separates traditional shamanism and neo-shamanism is that in the former teachings passed directly from one person to another and closed themselves in the meticulously defined tradition of a line.

neo-shamans don't have a line to follow, nor do they learn through direct experience guided by an elder shaman. they collect information from every possible resource, they experiment a wide number and variety of techniques and progressively define a practice of their own.

castaneda's books are quite interesting because in my opinion they convey themselves this transformation that is currently occurring and state very clearly that this happens for the better. ancient shamanism opened the way, no neo-shaman can neglect the inheritance of that knowledge, but we are now moving beyond the obstacles that inhibited ancient shamanism to survive. we are re-working shamanism so as to make it valid and vital again. we are trying our best to save our spirits and the planet itself. we are on the side of life no doubt. ancient shamanism put too much effort in destroying and killing.




Neo-shamanism has a revolting tendency to find the "core" of shamanism and make it a universal truth that can apply to all humans. This is not radical. This is typical. Westerners love making truths that are applicable in all cases. We wear these truths like jewelry.

In this way shamanism, through neo-shamanism, is relegated to an ornament the neo-shaman can wear without actually putting their entire collection of oranments into jeopardy.

Among all of the faults I have found with neo-shamanism and neo-shamans it is this belief that shamanism has a core that is most absurd and megalomaniacal.


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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4921313 - 11/11/05 09:44 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think you need to explain a little bit better your revulsion with finding the core of shamanism. from your post I understand you don't believe shamanism has a core. but if it doesn't have a core than it can't really be defined. we can only call it a bunch of weird practices that would have nothing in common.
if we think there's a reason to group all this ancient traditions and call it shamanism there must be something they all share, so naturally there must be a core.
neo-shamanism however is not really about finding the core of ancient shamanism. you start on shamanism from what you learn wherever you can. be it second hand or third hand eventually all knowledge roots to its source and that naturally has to be the ancient practices. but only partially of course, transmuted and changed by the path that brought that knowledge to you. when you learn about practices of amazonian tribes through terrence mckenna, whatever comes out of that into your own practice already incorporates a blend of ancient and new visions on what shamanism is.
of course a definition of shamanism is always reductive. in my post however I was just expressing what I feel to be the major differences between traditional shamanism and the emergent neo-shamanism. and I don't really blame neo-shamans for incorporating shamanism together with all their other beliefs and cosmic views on existence. after all that's only being human. only an isolated culture could survive without influence from external world views. in the new world everything changed the moment western civilization arrived. nowadays christian symbols and christian values are incorporated in many shamanic practices that survived transforming themselves. is this necessarily bad? not really. the world and humanity are finally becoming one. every knowledge will be available to everyone. everyone will be free to make their own choices and chose their own path. the individual can now access this huge bank of human knowledge and find in it what deeply resonates within him. more than ever he can be truly himself.


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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Neo-shamanism [Re: Icelander]
    #4921514 - 11/11/05 11:12 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Neo-shamanism just sounds like a very broad term people have come up with to try and label any assortment of outside the mainstream spiritual practices. In this way, it seems neo-shamanism truly has no definition, and people are just using it as a term to cling onto to try to label and validate what they are doing. I don't want to be insulting to anyone here, but how am I wrong?


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