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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10580691 - 06/27/09 07:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

A true shaman would just do their thing without any need for recognition.




Did you read "the book to being a true shaman"?  :whatever:




Well hey, medical doctors are renowned for being capable of healing and solving health problems for all sorts of people, and its not like they need to self-identify as a doctor. Its a title they never use themselves and grudgingly accept that usage by others.

I mean, you know how it is, you're walking down the street, and the community can always tell the true doctors from the false ones. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: fireworks_god]
    #10580694 - 06/27/09 07:49 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

And if some of those people have the latest magazines on torture, then they must be dentists. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10580702 - 06/27/09 07:56 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

A true shaman would just do their thing without any need for recognition.




Did you read "the book to being a true shaman"?  :whatever:




Unlike some people, I don't need to read a book in order to be sure about something.

For some unknown reason I have learned to think for myself.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: zen buddy]
    #10580707 - 06/27/09 07:58 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for another post that doesn't relate in any way to the discussion, you in for a prize? :trophy: :cuteshit:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10580718 - 06/27/09 08:04 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

... and your hypocritical post forgets that I was only answering your question.:shrug:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: zen buddy]
    #10580852 - 06/27/09 08:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

No, you were avoiding answering my question by saying that you don't need books in order to be sure of something, and that you learned to think for yourself, a statement which is isn't only flawed and stupid in itself, but even more so when you consider that you were attempting to avoid explaining HOW you reached a certain conclusion.
Personally, I could never say that I don't need books in order to know something, and it would be completely stupid of me to think that, only because I read books, I can't have personal opinions or think for myself. In fact, gathering all kinds of knowledge, data, and differing opinions is what raises my level of consciousness and what makes me step out of the pathetic crap called self-importance, where I would foolishly think that I don't need books and information in order to know stuff. Actually, I think that one must think very low of themselves in order to believe that reading a book would jeopardize their ability to think for themselves.

Just to make sure you won't be confused anymore, it was my initial question that was ridiculing your statement, and it had the intention of asking you how the fuck did you reach such an idiotic conclusion, and based on what?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10581243 - 06/27/09 11:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
No, you were avoiding answering my question by saying that you don't need books in order to be sure of something, and that you learned to think for yourself, a statement which is isn't only flawed and stupid in itself, but even more so when you consider that you were attempting to avoid explaining HOW you reached a certain conclusion.
Personally, I could never say that I don't need books in order to know something, and it would be completely stupid of me to think that, only because I read books, I can't have personal opinions or think for myself. In fact, gathering all kinds of knowledge, data, and differing opinions is what raises my level of consciousness and what makes me step out of the pathetic crap called self-importance, where I would foolishly think that I don't need books and information in order to know stuff. Actually, I think that one must think very low of themselves in order to believe that reading a book would jeopardize their ability to think for themselves.

Just to make sure you won't be confused anymore, it was my initial question that was ridiculing your statement, and it had the intention of asking you how the fuck did you reach such an idiotic conclusion, and based on what?




Would you care to explain how you came up with this idiotic conclusion?

Is there some book that you read that can somehow prove that my statement is incorrect? At this point you can either site your reference or admit your hypocrisy.

and even if you could find a book that disagrees with me it would not prove that I am wrong. All information contained in books start inside someone's mind.

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: zen buddy]
    #10582807 - 06/27/09 06:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The word “shaman” comes from a Siberian language, Tungus, in which it refers to a particular kind of spiritual practitioner. Alice Beck Kehoe has argued that “shaman” should properly be used only to refer to Tungus spiritual practitioners and the practitioners of culturally related peoples. Her arguments are convincing, but anthropologists and popular writers alike have followed Mircea Eliade’s work for so long that the idea of shaman as a cross-cultural category is unlikely to go away anytime soon. But what, then, does “shaman” refer to? Lessa and Vogt define a shaman as “a ceremonial practitioner whose powers come from direct contact with the supernatural, by divine stroke, rather than from inheritance or memorized ritual,” as opposed to a priest, who uses codified and standardized ritual (301). They also say that shamans “are essentially mediums, for they are the mouthpieces of spirit beings” (301-302).


--------------------

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10582842 - 06/27/09 06:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

WOW.

I can copy and paste too.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: Rose]
    #10582881 - 06/27/09 07:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

and spam :naughty:


--------------------

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10583086 - 06/27/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Neener Neener Neener!

:smile:

I wrote all that by my very own self.

Copy and Paste can bite me.

Slightly more on topic...

What ever happened to siting our sources?

If you can copy and paste text, can't you copy and paste a title and/or link too?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: Rose]
    #10584985 - 06/28/09 04:59 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

because i don't take this thread as a research paper or a scientific argument. i thought i'd bring together ideas from various sources to portray the overall image of shamanic initiation/illness.


--------------------

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10585515 - 06/28/09 09:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zen buddy said:
Would you care to explain how you came up with this idiotic conclusion?

Is there some book that you read that can somehow prove that my statement is incorrect? At this point you can either site your reference or admit your hypocrisy.





Could it be that being so overly-emotional has completely clouded your reasoning and understanding, because only you know what the fuck you're talking about in here? :wow:
Why exactly would I need to quote a book that disagrees with your statement, or, if not, admit my "hypocrisy"?
You have made a statement which IMO is completely ridiculous, and I called you on it, several times, with no success because each time you managed to avoid answering how does your statement makes sense. You're the one that make a claim you're supposed to back it up. :shrug:

Quote:

and even if you could find a book that disagrees with me it would not prove that I am wrong. All information contained in books start inside someone's mind.




Again: I am not trying to prove that your statement is wrong, I am asking you to explain how it is valid. Namely, why should one wait for others to call him shaman, and not proclaim himself as being one? Moreover, on what do you base your understanding of a "real shaman"?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: fireworks_god]
    #10585573 - 06/28/09 09:46 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

A true shaman would just do their thing without any need for recognition.




Did you read "the book to being a true shaman"?  :whatever:




Well hey, medical doctors are renowned for being capable of healing and solving health problems for all sorts of people, and its not like they need to self-identify as a doctor. Its a title they never use themselves and grudgingly accept that usage by others.

I mean, you know how it is, you're walking down the street, and the community can always tell the true doctors from the false ones. :wink:




Are you actually trying to compare doctors of Western medicine to shamans? Well, since you brought it up...

In order for a human being to become a doctor they have to first be recognized by their peers in the medical community. You cannot just decide to become a doctor and then all of a sudden claim to be a doctor, you have to earn this title.

The next point that I would like to make is also very important. There are thousands of doctors in the world who have taken the necessary courses, read the necessary books and passed the appropriate exams, yet they fail completely in the real world. There are many horrible doctors in the world who lack any bedside manner and sometimes have no idea what they are doing besides how to fill out the prescription form. Just becoming a doctor is no real achievement in itself, as becoming a good doctor is something very rare. How good of a doctor you are is determined by your patients and by your peers in the medical community and not by yourself.

As there is no official school or degree for a shaman, the only people that we can accept as deserving this title are the ones who have the approval of their community. A true shaman does not need recognition in order to do what they do. It is very possible for someone to fulfill the role without wearing the title.

When an individual announces to a room that he or she is a shaman there's a good chance that they are doing this for their own selfish, personal gain. If the individual is truly a shaman this fact would become obvious so there would be no need for a shaman to announce what he or she is to the room. A shaman plays an important role as a spiritual healer and because there is no degree that someone can present as evidence, it is very true in this case that actions speak louder than words. In fact, when someone claims to be a shaman before it is obvious they make it more likely that they will never be accepted as a shaman.

and yes, these are my own personal thoughts on the subject.

The credibility is in the fact that it makes sense.

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10585602 - 06/28/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

zen buddy said:
Would you care to explain how you came up with this idiotic conclusion?

Is there some book that you read that can somehow prove that my statement is incorrect? At this point you can either site your reference or admit your hypocrisy.





Could it be that being so overly-emotional has completely clouded your reasoning and understanding, because only you know what the fuck you're talking about in here? :wow:
Why exactly would I need to quote a book that disagrees with your statement, or, if not, admit my "hypocrisy"?
You have made a statement which IMO is completely ridiculous, and I called you on it, several times, with no success because each time you managed to avoid answering how does your statement makes sense. You're the one that make a claim you're supposed to back it up. :shrug:

Quote:

and even if you could find a book that disagrees with me it would not prove that I am wrong. All information contained in books start inside someone's mind.




Again: I am not trying to prove that your statement is wrong, I am asking you to explain how it is valid. Namely, why should one wait for others to call him shaman, and not proclaim himself as being one? Moreover, on what do you base your understanding of a "real shaman"?




You do this often and many others have called you out with no success so I see no reason why I would have any better luck but I'll give it a try anyways.

If you are going to suggest that what I say is idiotic then why don't you take the time to either explain or prove how what I say is incorrect? How can you disagree with someone without knowing why you disagree? Are you the Queen mother of the shroomery who never has to explain herself? If you cannot take the time to explain why you disagree then there is nothing to back your claim that what I say is idiotic. Either prove your point or shut up.

Your posts are famous for twisting others words to mean something completely different than what they had intended. Not only is it obvious that you completely misunderstand more than half the time but all you're really looking to do is start a fight.

Argue the point and avoid the insults or try to admit that your contributions to this forum are more of a disruption than anything else.

You claim that my statement is idiotic, why don't you back it up? ...  otherwise you are being hypocritical. You asked me to back up my claim but you're not willing to do the same.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: zen buddy]
    #10585616 - 06/28/09 10:05 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So, let's review: I am looking for starting fights, when you're the one that says:

"Are you the Queen mother of the shroomery who never has to explain herself?"

"Either prove your point or shut up."

"Argue the point and avoid the insults or try to admit that your contributions to this forum are more of a disruption than anything else."


How stupid is that? :lol:
Also, how hard is it to explain your point already, along with some consistent evidence that shamans do actually exist.
I am not going to take to consideration your menopausal woman comments, and I will consider that you just can't bring any insight into the matter, if next time you will avoid answering my initial question.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisiblezen buddy
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10585631 - 06/28/09 10:12 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
So, let's review: I am looking for starting fights, when you're the one that says:

"Are you the Queen mother of the shroomery who never has to explain herself?"

"Either prove your point or shut up."

"Argue the point and avoid the insults or try to admit that your contributions to this forum are more of a disruption than anything else."


How stupid is that? :lol:
Also, how hard is it to explain your point already, along with some consistent evidence that shamans do actually exist.
I am not going to take to consideration your menopausal woman comments, and I will consider that you just can't bring any insight into the matter, if next time you will avoid answering my initial question.




I have already explained my point and you are once again avoiding the point while failing to make your own point.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: zen buddy]
    #10586272 - 06/28/09 01:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

As there is no official school or degree for a shaman, the only people that we can accept as deserving this title are the ones who have the approval of their community. A true shaman does not need recognition in order to do what they do. It is very possible for someone to fulfill the role without wearing the title.




How can you be sure of what a shaman needs or doesn't? Doesn't it strike you as odd to make such strong appreciations?
I do agree that it is very possible for someone to fulfill a role without wearing the title, but this in no way means that, if one is assuming and self-proclaiming a role, they aren't actually in that role, and that it is all a facade.
What is a real shaman? It is a question that I kept asking you and you refused to answer, saying that I am being a hypocrite, when in fact, by answering this question, you could have explained your POV and why you think a "real" shaman would never speak of themselves as being a shaman.
What makes you think that a shaman wouldn't need recognition? Don't you think it's a logical fallacy to automatically consider someone malevolent and an impostor, simply because they need the appreciation of those around them? How does the first lead to the latter? :strokebeard:

Quote:

When an individual announces to a room that he or she is a shaman there's a good chance that they are doing this for their own selfish, personal gain.




Since when does self-fulfillment come in contradiction with satisfying the needs of others?

Quote:

If the individual is truly a shaman this fact would become obvious so there would be no need for a shaman to announce what he or she is to the room.




In which way, specifically, would this become an obvious fact?

Quote:

A shaman plays an important role as a spiritual healer and because there is no degree that someone can present as evidence, it is very true in this case that actions speak louder than words.




Of course, but this doesn't mean that words are of no value, nor does it mean that, by saying those words, you're becoming a fake shaman. :lol:

Quote:

In fact, when someone claims to be a shaman before it is obvious they make it more likely that they will never be accepted as a shaman.




Can you prove the verity of this assertion?

I could go on to debating whether or not shamans actually exist, but I won't do that as I can see how this rather vague term can have meaning in the actual reality, especially in one's consciousness and psyche. I can see how the archetypal initiation rite can apply to one's life when for example experiencing a personal crisis accompanied by personal transformation and growth, and I can think about a handful of situations and stages when, identifying themselves with the wounded healer, one can really need the appreciation of their family or community.
The fact that you see this thing though negative lenses doesn't mean that the situation itself is bad, deceitful, or that the people who claim they're shamans are impostors.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10586279 - 06/28/09 01:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

goddamn MM, that's just cold and mean.


--------------------

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Invisibledeimya
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread ***UFO encounters as initiation*** [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10586480 - 06/28/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Selfless, self-assured, silently and smirkingly humble mother-fuckers, shamans, around some parts of the shroomery, are perceived as sacredly more awesome than pirates and ninjas combined. Yes, you read me right, COMBINED !

AND DON'T YOU DARE THINK OTHERWISE YOU FILTHY HERETIC

That is all.

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