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Offlinebodhiman777
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058359 - 02/22/08 08:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Proponents of shamanism keep saying what shamans cannot do.

1. They cannot heal disease such as small pox.

2. They cannot come up with technological advances.

3. They cannot divine special knowlegde.

4. They cannot 'see' at a distance nor into the future.

5. A zillion other things they cannot do.

Seems they may fill some emotional need of a tribe and that is about it. Why all the special training if one is merely to be a keeper of the myths?




A shaman is the key and gate keeper of the metaphysical realm and he maintains the communities connection with it. Whether the community chooses to abide by his suggestions or ignore his rantings, it is the communities choice.
You are right though, there is no USE for a shaman, at least nowadays. He mostly stands as a marker, pointing the way to enlightenment, not that enlightenment has much USE in the world today.


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... and so forth


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OfflineCash_99
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8058383 - 02/22/08 08:59 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Shamanism is very, very old. What do you expect?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8058432 - 02/22/08 09:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I know that a shaman can do this.

You do? How?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Posts: 10,685
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Icelander]
    #8058476 - 02/22/08 09:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Because I have begun to have maximum success in doing this using the tools common to the shaman.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Taharka]
    #8058478 - 02/22/08 09:29 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The cultures that have such an office are obviously happy with it.




And our society is seemingly happy with psychic readers and astrologers. So what? I will continue to point out nonsense.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8058484 - 02/22/08 09:31 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Because I have begun to have maximum success in doing this using the tools common to the shaman.




What you just said is a far cry from your original statement. How about master the self and reprogram their whole psychology.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Icelander]
    #8058493 - 02/22/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I have begun to master myself and reprogram my psychology. I see no "far cry". I have experienced it. This is just a statement of fact.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058496 - 02/22/08 09:34 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
What good is fly-fishing?

Your loaded statement is a very poor tactic.

This topic is about shamanism and not sports nor psychiatry. I am not dodging anything.




What good is any activity humans could engage in that goes beyond the bare requisites for survival? This is the point. You've conceded that shamanism is useful for contributing to emotional wellbeing, as well as group solidarity. Those are some beneficial outcomes that seem to suggest the activity is worth participating in.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8058498 - 02/22/08 09:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I have begun to have maximum success




Huh?

I saved a hundred dollars. Guess I have had maximum success on my way to saving a million.

I ran a 7:15 minute mile last week. I have begun to have maximum success on my way to setting a world age group record.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8058503 - 02/22/08 09:36 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Dude you will never reprogram your "whole psychology" no matter what you believe right now. Nor will you ever "master" yourself. Those are benchmarks IMO, not realities.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058510 - 02/22/08 09:38 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I saved a hundred dollars. Guess I have had maximum success on my way to saving a million.

I ran a 7:15 minute mile last week. I have begun to have maximum success on my way to setting a world age group record.




If those are your goals then that is correct. if these are not your goals then your results are not goal oriented. What is your point?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058514 - 02/22/08 09:39 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

I have begun to have maximum success




Huh?

I saved a hundred dollars. Guess I have had maximum success on my way to saving a million.

I ran a 7:15 minute mile last week. I have begun to have maximum success on my way to setting a world age group record.





who here is talking about money and olympics?

the correct answer is: you are. :wink:


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Invisiblebmiles
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Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2,299
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8058519 - 02/22/08 09:41 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
What good is raquetball?




--------------------
Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8058528 - 02/22/08 09:43 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You've conceded that shamanism is useful for contributing to emotional wellbeing, as well as group solidarity. Those are some beneficial outcomes that seem to suggest the activity is worth participating in.





What activity exactly? Other members of the tribe give the shaman power through their belief, not through his practices. Do you see the difference?

It is no different with western priests today. They do not have an 'inside line' to God or spirit.

On another note, have you ever read the allegedly true biography, "Rolling Thunder" by Doug Boyd about a Native American medicine man? If you haven't read it (should be at your local library) and get back to me. He makes many claims about supernatural powers. I do not make stuff up.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058534 - 02/22/08 09:45 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I think Rolling Thunder is a story about some really good pot.:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058538 - 02/22/08 09:46 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
If you haven't read it (should be at your local library) and get back to me. He makes many claims about supernatural powers. I do not make stuff up.




Could you maybe just briefly touch upon what it's about for us so we know what to specifically look for?


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #8058539 - 02/22/08 09:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't trust the academic quality of most books on shamanism these days. A lot of cheesball hippies capitalize on the popularity. Personally, I prefer to get my info from ethnographic studies or direct from indigenous people I know and trust. When you want to discuss an article from a peer reviewed anthropology journal I'll be happy to engage.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: Icelander]
    #8058542 - 02/22/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

My fave anecdote is where RT turns sage smoke into a tornado that scares an army prison into releasing some Indians who deserted during the Viet Nam war (or some such crime - read the book like 25 years ago).


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8058545 - 02/22/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: What good is shamanism? [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #8058551 - 02/22/08 09:52 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

When you want to discuss an article from a peer reviewed anthropology journal I'll be happy to engage.





Post away, NN. You may take the lead.


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