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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I am a shaman, magician The sun is purple 3D dimensions I am for mental extensions.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7594242 - 11/04/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whether it is possible to be a Shaman or not, the definition is determined by the actions and abilities, not by the cultural acknowledgement and application of said actions and abilities.
yup. Hey, wasn't Jesus a Shaman?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/04/07 11:47 AM)
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Did Jesus live in Siberia?
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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So it is said. What you think he was doing for all those "missing" years dude?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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I heard he hanging out chewing peyote with the Native Americans in the southwest.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I heard he was with Markos doing drops of liquid Acid and lounging around the pool. You know he likes to hang out with the sinners.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/04/07 02:47 PM)
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7594873 - 11/04/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think our disagreement is essentially definitional. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Shamanism [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7594876 - 11/04/07 02:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That means we win.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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In your dreams!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Shamanism [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7594884 - 11/04/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There too. It's all dreaming darlin.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Shamanism [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7594885 - 11/04/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: I think our disagreement is essentially definitional. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.
That's fine, but remember--"my" definition is the one in the dictionary! 
AND demanding that everyone adhere to a standard principle is not very anarchistic of you.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7594906 - 11/04/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's right and I hope she don't forget.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7594923 - 11/04/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well mmmyyyy definition comes from my anthropology professor, so there. 
That's a low blow lady. When I'm king of the revolution everyone will subscribe to the correct (my) worldview and we'll all live in a paradise on earth with no bosses, politicians or wars. I won't need to coerce anyone because they will be won to my perspective through my flawless logic and incredible charisma.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Shamanism [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7594944 - 11/04/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
my flawless logic and incredible charisma
Bring it on.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7594976 - 11/04/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7595827 - 11/04/07 06:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Honey, it's already been brought.;)
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OMniversal
A Blaze in the Northern Sky


Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 218
Loc: The Synaptic Cleft
Last seen: 8 years, 27 days
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Re: Shamanism [Re: Veritas]
#7597463 - 11/05/07 06:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Something that is painfully irritating to me is how many people think they can just become a shaman by deciding that they are one, or by paying for a class that guides them through some "initiation" process. The definition of a shaman is a person who is culturally recognized as being able to leave thier body, journey to the culture's spirit land, interact with spirits and return to thier body with knowledge. You cannot just decide to be a shaman and be one. If your culture does not have a shamanic tradition, you will never be one. You are of course free to experiment with your consciousness in whatever way you please, but it is terribly disrespectful to the shamanic cultures to ape thier traditions and pretend you can intitiate yourself into something you don't understand.
There is also the fact that the process of becoming a shaman (in cultures that have this pattern) is extremely difficult and often life threatening. I sincerely doubt that any of the weekend courses white folks take come even close to what is involved in the tradition.
Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Your definition is not correct. It is a popularized, generalized definition of the term, a different use of the word entirely. My definition and views on the matter come from, and are broadly accepted in, the field of anthropology. Yeah, there can be a lot to criticize about anthropology. I won't pretend it's flawless, but this is where I'm coming from. A priest is a different kind of thing entirely. There may be some parallels and crossovers, but priest and shaman are essentially different social roles.
Anthropology, if I am not mistaken, studies the way things have been done in human cultures. This does not mean that what is studied can never be done differently, or that the definitions of the past are the only valid ones. "My" definition comes from the dictionary, and reflects the etymology of the term. As anthropology views everything through the lens of cultural embeddedness, it is to be expected that this field would define a Shaman as being culturally-determined.
Again, I say that these imposed limitations are elitist and inaccurate. Whether it is possible to be a Shaman or not, the definition is determined by the actions and abilities, not by the cultural acknowledgement and application of said actions and abilities.
I'm going to go with my usual all-encompassing/integral-like way of understanding and say that in my opinion, I think its both culturally determined and also based on inner abilities and actions. I see shamanism and shamans in essence as the primordial psychologist/psychotherapist, an innerspace explorer and healer. These common patterns of social role and inner mentality/being/consciousness has been expressed differently and changed throughout cultures and history.
Don't get me wrong, I think its silly when someone calls themselves a shaman as well after just reading some books or attending a workshop, but the actual role or archetype of what the shaman embodies, I think is somewhat expressed, but fragmented across the modern fields of medicine, psychology, ecology, etc.
Don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but just the way I look at it.
-------------------- "We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I "When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about." -Einstein
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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well the all important thing as i said is
A. they heal people and taking on that role via rituals and what have you.(this covers the whole preist hoodness and such) B. they have a following a clan,tribe,cult,ect
to put things in the most basic easy to understand way.
Edited by thedudenj (11/05/07 02:28 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Shamanism [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7598882 - 11/05/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Honey, it's already been brought.;)
We didn't notice.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Shamanism [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7599337 - 11/05/07 05:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Something that is painfully irritating to me is how many people think they can just become a shaman by deciding that they are one, or by paying for a class that guides them through some "initiation" process.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7345595#Post7345595
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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