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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568282 - 10/27/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: harass us mercilessly
Funny, I get that a lot around here, and it's not primarily from religious people.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7568331 - 10/27/07 11:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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So voluntarily entering a DEBATE forum wherein one is going to be CHALLENGED is the same as someone knocking on your door to convert you, giving you a pamphlet on the street telling you are going to burn in hell and passing laws against mushroom use and abortion and...
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DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 days
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568654 - 10/28/07 02:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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For full article http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pope-admits-crimes-of-christian-colonisation/2007/05/24/1179601579676.html
"CONFRONTED with continued anger in Latin America, Pope Benedict has acknowledged that the Christian colonisation of Indian populations was not as rosy as he portrayed in a speech this month in Brazil.
The Pope did not apologise, as some indigenous and Latin American leaders have demanded. However, he did say it was impossible to ignore the dark "shadows" and "unjustified crimes" that accompanied the evangelisation of the New World by Catholic priests in the 15th and 16th centuries.
"It is not possible to forget the sufferings and injustices inflicted by the colonisers on the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled upon," the Pope said in his weekly public audience in St Peter's Square on Wednesday. "Certainly, the memory of a glorious past cannot ignore the shadows that accompanied the work of evangelising the Latin American continent."
Still, he said, recognizing the sins should not detract from the good achieved by the missionaries: "Mentioning this must not prevent us from acknowledging with gratitude the marvelous work accomplished by the divine grace among these people."
They basically committed Nazi style atrocities, they refuse to apologise and think that some good came out of what they did. And yet, people think its perfectly acceptable to join organizations such as this.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568734 - 10/28/07 03:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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You crack me up, Swami.
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Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: DimensionX]
#7569002 - 10/28/07 07:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
DimensionX said: For full article http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pope-admits-crimes-of-christian-colonisation/2007/05/24/1179601579676.html
"CONFRONTED with continued anger in Latin America, Pope Benedict has acknowledged that the Christian colonisation of Indian populations was not as rosy as he portrayed in a speech this month in Brazil.
The Pope did not apologise, as some indigenous and Latin American leaders have demanded. However, he did say it was impossible to ignore the dark "shadows" and "unjustified crimes" that accompanied the evangelisation of the New World by Catholic priests in the 15th and 16th centuries.
"It is not possible to forget the sufferings and injustices inflicted by the colonisers on the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled upon," the Pope said in his weekly public audience in St Peter's Square on Wednesday. "Certainly, the memory of a glorious past cannot ignore the shadows that accompanied the work of evangelising the Latin American continent."
Still, he said, recognizing the sins should not detract from the good achieved by the missionaries: "Mentioning this must not prevent us from acknowledging with gratitude the marvelous work accomplished by the divine grace among these people."
They basically committed Nazi style atrocities, they refuse to apologise and think that some good came out of what they did. And yet, people think its perfectly acceptable to join organizations such as this.
And that's a point where a religion stops being such, and becomes a political organisation. Unfortunately a lot of people cannot seem to accept that *gasp* organisations such as christianity, judaism and islam use their sway to affect political decisions in their favour, to the detriment of people not of that religion.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7569135 - 10/28/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why is it difficult to answer my question?
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7569161 - 10/28/07 08:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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God = Idol worship
Religions = A myth that offers answers to the biggest question; the meaning of life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Ego Death]
#7569204 - 10/28/07 09:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7569495 - 10/28/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Why is it difficult to answer my question?
Because you haven't asked one(other than this one of course).
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7569834 - 10/28/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
So voluntarily entering a DEBATE forum wherein one is going to be CHALLENGED is the same as someone knocking on your door to convert you, giving you a pamphlet on the street telling you are going to burn in hell and passing laws against mushroom use and abortion and...
He left off the question mark.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569845 - 10/28/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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He also didn't address what I actually said.
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Acinaxuz
In SomnisVeritas.


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 231
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7569851 - 10/28/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
Quote:
Acinaxuz said: As an example, Christianity you are told what to believe, you are told how to behave. Is Islam really so different in those terms?
-Zuxa
Not really, just one has symbolic cannibalism, and the other does away with the pretense of taking entheogens altogether.
Aye, that statement was more in reference to the control factor, not insinuating anything other than.
The tradition of cannibalism goes back ages as a death right of the family (to ingest the flesh of their loved one), a religious right of priests and elders for ceremonies, and treatment for illness. There have been documented accounts, from various cultures and religions of people ingesting blood, flesh and even pieces of mummies to cure ailments, and this went on well into the 1700s. In some Native tribes it was believed that to eat the flesh of your enemy was a means of obtaining their strengths in battle.
What better cure or means of gaining spiritual strength than to ingest that of a healer or profit? By ingesting the flesh and the blood of Christ, you are now holy and aided in curing your sins and righting your wrongs, able to see your path. Christ is within you now takes on a very literal meaning. The use of alcohol as opposed to the use of water could have just to give it an individualized, "special" connotation. You're more likely to drink water daily, than wine.
The last supper where Jesus is said to have delivered the speech of 'eat this bread for it is my body' and 'drink this wine for it is my blood' IMO is mindful of the cannibalism tradition. You wouldn't want Jesus' body devoured before he was set to rise again! Instead, by blessing the bread and wine, he thus preserved himself and the tradition of gaining cures, strength, and enlightenment through the ingestion of another's essence, simultaneously. Maybe this wasn't the purpose of doing so, but it's an interesting thought none-the-less.
I could see this being a means of easing transition from a Cannibalistic belief system to Christianity as well. My reservation was torn apart by missionaries, people were enslaved, forced out of their language, ceremonies, beliefs, everything. The missionaries however needed these people to believe. After all, they were rescuing "savages". There is record that they began drawing upon religious similarity to gain the trust and therefore the faith of the "savages", to ease transition. And because it was thought that anyone not of the same, I'll use the term Culture, were cannibals I surely see how this could have come to pass.
The obsession of cannibalism by the generalized historical (namely European) population interests me. Explorers over time made profits from reporting their discoveries of new peoples. In some cases, most of the information, regarding new cultures, published was completely false. Other cases, the act of ceremonial cannibalism was misconstrued and taken entirely out of context.
Interesting examples of explorer recorded Cannibalism would be places like Vanuatu. Easter Island is a more mainstream reference or the Aztecs. I find it interesting that while the reasons behind the cannibalism are all different, many are all fairly similarly recorded in the context of exaggeration and misunderstanding. (exempt are the Aztecs who attempted to assist in the recording of their culture... though, I find the resources extremely interesting and still think it's worth the ponder)
I'm not sure that symbolic cannibalism took the place of entheogens, as the use of entheogens were present and used differently in some of the same cultures that you find European and self-recorded cannibalism. I find it much more likely that they did so to limit the ingestion of human flesh while retaining the spiritual and medical benefits of chowing down on a hunk of human and to ease in transition. Not to mention preservation of Jesus' cadaver itself!
As a side note, is there a fair comparison you think between the cannibalism of brains and zombies? Because cannibalism existed in terms of dining on brains, zombies coming to reclaim what's theirs? I've never looked into it, but, I'm sure there's a deep-seated belief buried in there somewhere.
Quote:
And that's a point where a religion stops being such, and becomes a political organisation. Unfortunately a lot of people cannot seem to accept that *gasp* organisations such as christianity, judaism and islam use their sway to affect political decisions in their favour, to the detriment of people not of that religion.
I agree, and it makes me 
-Zuxa
-------------------- :~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:{ * }:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~: All posts are made with only the intent to entertain myself and should ONLY be read with the understanding that they are FICTICIOUS. I do not warrant information I provide for use in illegal activity of any kind nor do I condone it for any reason. Furthermore, I am not, I have never, nor will I in the future, take ANY part in illegal activites.
Edited by Acinaxuz (10/28/07 02:51 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7569865 - 10/28/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your original statement seemed to compare the harassment you claim to receive on this site from non-Christians with the harassment perpetuated by Christians in the social and legal systems.
Of course, you have made this claim before & have not yet produced any actual instances in which you have been harassed for your beliefs on this site, so this may be why you declined to respond to his question.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569879 - 10/28/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm willing to harass anyone here. I believe in service.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Icelander]
#7569882 - 10/28/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's very noble of you. God would approve.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569887 - 10/28/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe I'll win a noble peace prize.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569909 - 10/28/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Your original statement seemed to compare the harassment you claim to receive on this site from non-Christians with the harassment perpetuated by Christians in the social and legal systems.
I made no such comparison. I addressed the quoted piece of text and that was it. Any inferences about me equivocating the two are entirely in the imagination of those reading my post.
Quote:
Of course, you have made this claim before & have not yet produced any actual instances in which you have been harassed for your beliefs on this site, so this may be why you declined to respond to his question.
He made a thread in this forum about something I had said in MR&P with no intention of opening it up for debate. When I refused to participate in his thread, I he baited me into it by name. When I told him I would not be playing his games, he continued harassing me until I got involved in the thread(shame on me for falling for one of his tricks). And once again, I did not decline to respond to a question here, because none was asked. He merely twisted my words as he tends to do often.
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