|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Gods and religion are different and seperate.
#7565920 - 10/27/07 06:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I can't do anything long winded, and I want this point to be concise so it's easy to read.
People, through various means, experience something that is called god. Then seeking to substantiate the experience, join a religion, or if none is found suitable, make their own one up. The morals of that religion are made up by the authours of it, the stories are attempts to explain it.
In older religion, where entheogens are still used, it's an order of magnitude easier to comprehend what the religion is derived from. In more modern religions, such as Christianity, the entheogen use is replaced by symbolic cannibalism, which probably did not start off as symbolic cannibalism (because that's weird no matter who you ask) but rather using alcohol as a substitution for entheogens, which instead of making people think, do nothing, or if lots of wine is being consumed, stupefy them to the point where no matter what's said, it's accepted. In more modern religions, like Islam, even the symbol of entheogenic drug use is done away with altogether, and what was once a religion, is little more than a tool of control.
I don't have a point to this, I don't have conclusions to make. It's an observation I couldn't ignore, thus I'd post it here, curious to know if anyone else has expressed this before.
--------------------
Edited by Visionary Tools (10/27/07 06:38 AM)
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7565950 - 10/27/07 07:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Actually in some circles, the cannibalism still isn't symbolic.
A certain gland in the human brain at a certain point after the body's death is the ULTIMATE entheogen.
"God is an intelligible sphere, who's center is everywhere and circumference is nowhere" - Joe Campbell
"Anyone who tells you God is outside of you is a parasite" - Dan Winter
"Many of the ancient gods are Aliens that still live today, GOD is a process not a person" - Me
|
Acinaxuz
In SomnisVeritas.


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 231
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7565980 - 10/27/07 07:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
In older religion, where entheogens are still used, it's an order of magnitude easier to comprehend what the religion is derived from. In more modern religions, such as Christianity, the entheogen use is replaced by symbolic cannibalism, which probably did not start off as symbolic cannibalism (because that's weird no matter who you ask) but rather using alcohol as a substitution for entheogens, which instead of making people think, do nothing, or if lots of wine is being consumed, stupefy them to the point where no matter what's said, it's accepted. In more modern religions, like Islam, even the symbol of entheogenic drug use is done away with altogether, and what was once a religion, is little more than a tool of control.
I think the context in which we utilized substances changed. Where at one point (as an example peyote or mushrooms) substances were used only in religious contexts or as a tool in spirituality, our society now allows these substances for recreational purposes.
I'm not sure that alcohol took the place of these substances in spirituality or that it caused an over-all lethargic society. I find that alcohol in modern society, before it becomes an addiction, becomes a cycle of depression and thus used as a "crutch" to face the hardships of life. I find the same is true with many addictions and thus a main reason said user allows them to continue. It has become an "easy road"... not exactly the term I'm looking for.
I think it plays a role, but I don't find it to be the only cause.
As an example, Christianity you are told what to believe, you are told how to behave. Is Islam really so different in those terms? I find this is a commonality among the "mainstream" religions, where as religions that are more naturalistic focus on your discovering for yourself the ways of the universe, true cause and effect, and karmic rule. You are given lessons and learn by experience.
Christianity gives us the 10 commandments and told to respect them or burn in hell.
I'm not exactly disputing as much as I am using this as an outlet to work through my own thoughts on the topic. I get where you're coming from, I just think it's a touch more complicated.
-Zuxa
-------------------- :~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:{ * }:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~: All posts are made with only the intent to entertain myself and should ONLY be read with the understanding that they are FICTICIOUS. I do not warrant information I provide for use in illegal activity of any kind nor do I condone it for any reason. Furthermore, I am not, I have never, nor will I in the future, take ANY part in illegal activites.
|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Middleman]
#7566067 - 10/27/07 08:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Middleman said: "Anyone who tells you God is outside of you is a parasite" - Dan Winter
I'd sort of agree with that. I'd be more definate, but I don't like overthinking about this matter, because no good will come of it.
--------------------
|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Acinaxuz]
#7566079 - 10/27/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Acinaxuz said: As an example, Christianity you are told what to believe, you are told how to behave. Is Islam really so different in those terms?
-Zuxa
Not really, just one has symbolic cannibalism, and the other does away with the pretense of taking entheogens altogether.
--------------------
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7566088 - 10/27/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Be careful not to associate all religious experience with entheogens. There are many other(in some cases more powerful) ways of having mystical experiences. Furthermore, don't necessarily assume that mystical experiences are the origin of religion. They certainly can play a major role, and for some like William James they were thought to be primary, but as Emile Durkheim pointed out, religion has traditionally had a role of social cohesion. When Durkheim, a secular Frenchman and one of the major founders of sociology, studied the religion of the Aborigines in Australia, he came to see their gods as symbolic expressions of their own conceptions of society itself. He came to see all religions in a similar light. He also saw the primary role of religion as differentiating between the sacred and the profane.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between these two ideas. On an individual level, mystical experiences can play a powerful role, but since it is difficult to have a society of mystics, these mystical experiences can only play a developmental role for religion to the extent that they create social cohesion.
--------------------
|
fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7566800 - 10/27/07 01:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Some false branches hold to such things as transubstantiation. Obviously this is a doctrine of devils. Don't confuse true Christian doctrine with pseudo christian doctrine.
|
Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: fivepointer]
#7566903 - 10/27/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: fivepointer]
#7567018 - 10/27/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fivepointer said: Some false branches hold to such things as transubstantiation. Obviously this is a doctrine of devils. Don't confuse true Christian doctrine with pseudo christian doctrine.
What is obvious about it?
How does an outside observer determine true from pseudo?
--------------------
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7567032 - 10/27/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Only fivepointer can make such a determination. His judgement is infallible. All hail fivepointer!
--------------------
|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: fivepointer]
#7567033 - 10/27/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fivepointer said: Some false branches hold to such things as transubstantiation. Obviously this is a doctrine of devils. Don't confuse true Christian doctrine with pseudo christian doctrine.
It's all fairy tales to me And badly written at that!
--------------------
|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7567049 - 10/27/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Silversoul said: Be careful not to associate all religious experience with entheogens. There are many other(in some cases more powerful) ways of having mystical experiences. Furthermore, don't necessarily assume that mystical experiences are the origin of religion. They certainly can play a major role, and for some like William James they were thought to be primary, but as Emile Durkheim pointed out, religion has traditionally had a role of social cohesion. When Durkheim, a secular Frenchman and one of the major founders of sociology, studied the religion of the Aborigines in Australia, he came to see their gods as symbolic expressions of their own conceptions of society itself. He came to see all religions in a similar light. He also saw the primary role of religion as differentiating between the sacred and the profane.
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between these two ideas. On an individual level, mystical experiences can play a powerful role, but since it is difficult to have a society of mystics, these mystical experiences can only play a developmental role for religion to the extent that they create social cohesion.
I'll put it this way. The most profound mystical experiences happen to people in altered states of mind. Be it from chanting, fasting, sleep deprivation, or a mushroom, and then writing about it in a certain way is called religion.
But there is also religion where people write about what you can and cannot do (with the empathsis (sorry, I can't spell it: To empathise on) on cannot) who either tack on their morality to the vision, using it's authority to put in their instruction, or it's just teaching of morality, using the power of story telling to convince people that it's right and to accept it because of faith, instead of reason. The latter in this case is about as far removed from what the former is as possible.
Then again, people seem to think one form is more valid than the other. I'm biased to whatever is the least malicious, which is usually the one not being preached and advertised to people all the time.
--------------------
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7567070 - 10/27/07 03:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
What is obvious about it?
How does an outside observer determine true from pseudo?
Why would an outside observer be concerned with such matters?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7567206 - 10/27/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Because both the pseudo and the 'true' (read: another pseudo) doctriners want to control everyone's private life and harass us mercilessly until we swear by a fairy tale. They cannot be happy unless we all feel guilty about being human.
Amen.
--------------------
|
MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7567221 - 10/27/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yes... and since BOTH categories do the same thing, why do we need to learn the "real" from the "fake"?
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7567234 - 10/27/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Because both the pseudo and the 'true' (read: another pseudo) doctriners want to control everyone's private life and harass us mercilessly until we swear by a fairy tale. They cannot be happy unless we all feel guilty about being human.
Sounds like baseless generalization to me.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: fireworks_god]
#7567859 - 10/27/07 08:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Genralization: Yes.
Baseless: No.
Almost all drug and 'morality' laws orginate from fundamental 'thinking'.
As Christians believe that ALL non-Christians (and most other Christian sects other than their own) it is their DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to covert heathens. This ranges from sublte violence to all-out war and 'crusades'.
Humans are fully sexual by about 12 or 13. What can they do about it?
1. Masturbation is wrong.
2. Premarital sex is worng.
3. Abortion is wrong.
4. Contraceptives are immoral.
5. Celibacy for a young person full to the brim with hormones telling him/her to fuck like bunnies creates serious mental/emotional issues resulting in guilt.
Christians want to share (read: impose) this guilt on as many people as possible.
I could go on all day, but I stand by my statement.
--------------------
|
fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7567959 - 10/27/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Scripture does not tell anyone to create political laws restricting personal liberty. These matters are spiritual not political.
Christians are told to proclaim the gospel not forcefully convert anyone. The Holy Spirit does the work in conversion, and no one can command the Spirit to convert anyone, since it comes and goes like the wind and is not bound by human will.
As far as sex goes, it is a wonderful gift of God. However it is to be reserved for the marriage bed. God's way is the best way whether you understand it or not. Do I want to impose this on others? The gospel is not about imposing things, it is about belief of the truth.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: fivepointer]
#7568005 - 10/27/07 09:11 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
since it comes and goes like the wind
CNN NEWS: The fires in California have helped to boost the high pressure system, increasing the chance of Holy Spirit conversions on the west coast. In other news...
Quote:
God's way is the best way
Ancient Jewish law is ancient Jewish man's way, not God's way.
--------------------
|
DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 days
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568209 - 10/27/07 10:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I think mystical experiences come when someone makes a deep connection with something or someone else. As for religions, they are more about creating a single stream of thought amongst there members, giving power to the leaders who usually become a symbol of worship ie. the pope.
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568282 - 10/27/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: harass us mercilessly
Funny, I get that a lot around here, and it's not primarily from religious people.
--------------------
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7568331 - 10/27/07 11:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
So voluntarily entering a DEBATE forum wherein one is going to be CHALLENGED is the same as someone knocking on your door to convert you, giving you a pamphlet on the street telling you are going to burn in hell and passing laws against mushroom use and abortion and...
--------------------
|
DimensionX
King of Birds


Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,486
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 years, 2 days
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568654 - 10/28/07 02:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
For full article http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pope-admits-crimes-of-christian-colonisation/2007/05/24/1179601579676.html
"CONFRONTED with continued anger in Latin America, Pope Benedict has acknowledged that the Christian colonisation of Indian populations was not as rosy as he portrayed in a speech this month in Brazil.
The Pope did not apologise, as some indigenous and Latin American leaders have demanded. However, he did say it was impossible to ignore the dark "shadows" and "unjustified crimes" that accompanied the evangelisation of the New World by Catholic priests in the 15th and 16th centuries.
"It is not possible to forget the sufferings and injustices inflicted by the colonisers on the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled upon," the Pope said in his weekly public audience in St Peter's Square on Wednesday. "Certainly, the memory of a glorious past cannot ignore the shadows that accompanied the work of evangelising the Latin American continent."
Still, he said, recognizing the sins should not detract from the good achieved by the missionaries: "Mentioning this must not prevent us from acknowledging with gratitude the marvelous work accomplished by the divine grace among these people."
They basically committed Nazi style atrocities, they refuse to apologise and think that some good came out of what they did. And yet, people think its perfectly acceptable to join organizations such as this.
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7568734 - 10/28/07 03:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
You crack me up, Swami.
--------------------
|
Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: DimensionX]
#7569002 - 10/28/07 07:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DimensionX said: For full article http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pope-admits-crimes-of-christian-colonisation/2007/05/24/1179601579676.html
"CONFRONTED with continued anger in Latin America, Pope Benedict has acknowledged that the Christian colonisation of Indian populations was not as rosy as he portrayed in a speech this month in Brazil.
The Pope did not apologise, as some indigenous and Latin American leaders have demanded. However, he did say it was impossible to ignore the dark "shadows" and "unjustified crimes" that accompanied the evangelisation of the New World by Catholic priests in the 15th and 16th centuries.
"It is not possible to forget the sufferings and injustices inflicted by the colonisers on the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled upon," the Pope said in his weekly public audience in St Peter's Square on Wednesday. "Certainly, the memory of a glorious past cannot ignore the shadows that accompanied the work of evangelising the Latin American continent."
Still, he said, recognizing the sins should not detract from the good achieved by the missionaries: "Mentioning this must not prevent us from acknowledging with gratitude the marvelous work accomplished by the divine grace among these people."
They basically committed Nazi style atrocities, they refuse to apologise and think that some good came out of what they did. And yet, people think its perfectly acceptable to join organizations such as this.
And that's a point where a religion stops being such, and becomes a political organisation. Unfortunately a lot of people cannot seem to accept that *gasp* organisations such as christianity, judaism and islam use their sway to affect political decisions in their favour, to the detriment of people not of that religion.
--------------------
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7569135 - 10/28/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Why is it difficult to answer my question?
--------------------
|
Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7569161 - 10/28/07 08:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
God = Idol worship
Religions = A myth that offers answers to the biggest question; the meaning of life
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Ego Death]
#7569204 - 10/28/07 09:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7569495 - 10/28/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Why is it difficult to answer my question?
Because you haven't asked one(other than this one of course).
--------------------
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7569834 - 10/28/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
So voluntarily entering a DEBATE forum wherein one is going to be CHALLENGED is the same as someone knocking on your door to convert you, giving you a pamphlet on the street telling you are going to burn in hell and passing laws against mushroom use and abortion and...
He left off the question mark.
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569845 - 10/28/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
He also didn't address what I actually said.
--------------------
|
Acinaxuz
In SomnisVeritas.


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 231
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and separate. [Re: Visionary Tools]
#7569851 - 10/28/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
Quote:
Acinaxuz said: As an example, Christianity you are told what to believe, you are told how to behave. Is Islam really so different in those terms?
-Zuxa
Not really, just one has symbolic cannibalism, and the other does away with the pretense of taking entheogens altogether.
Aye, that statement was more in reference to the control factor, not insinuating anything other than.
The tradition of cannibalism goes back ages as a death right of the family (to ingest the flesh of their loved one), a religious right of priests and elders for ceremonies, and treatment for illness. There have been documented accounts, from various cultures and religions of people ingesting blood, flesh and even pieces of mummies to cure ailments, and this went on well into the 1700s. In some Native tribes it was believed that to eat the flesh of your enemy was a means of obtaining their strengths in battle.
What better cure or means of gaining spiritual strength than to ingest that of a healer or profit? By ingesting the flesh and the blood of Christ, you are now holy and aided in curing your sins and righting your wrongs, able to see your path. Christ is within you now takes on a very literal meaning. The use of alcohol as opposed to the use of water could have just to give it an individualized, "special" connotation. You're more likely to drink water daily, than wine.
The last supper where Jesus is said to have delivered the speech of 'eat this bread for it is my body' and 'drink this wine for it is my blood' IMO is mindful of the cannibalism tradition. You wouldn't want Jesus' body devoured before he was set to rise again! Instead, by blessing the bread and wine, he thus preserved himself and the tradition of gaining cures, strength, and enlightenment through the ingestion of another's essence, simultaneously. Maybe this wasn't the purpose of doing so, but it's an interesting thought none-the-less.
I could see this being a means of easing transition from a Cannibalistic belief system to Christianity as well. My reservation was torn apart by missionaries, people were enslaved, forced out of their language, ceremonies, beliefs, everything. The missionaries however needed these people to believe. After all, they were rescuing "savages". There is record that they began drawing upon religious similarity to gain the trust and therefore the faith of the "savages", to ease transition. And because it was thought that anyone not of the same, I'll use the term Culture, were cannibals I surely see how this could have come to pass.
The obsession of cannibalism by the generalized historical (namely European) population interests me. Explorers over time made profits from reporting their discoveries of new peoples. In some cases, most of the information, regarding new cultures, published was completely false. Other cases, the act of ceremonial cannibalism was misconstrued and taken entirely out of context.
Interesting examples of explorer recorded Cannibalism would be places like Vanuatu. Easter Island is a more mainstream reference or the Aztecs. I find it interesting that while the reasons behind the cannibalism are all different, many are all fairly similarly recorded in the context of exaggeration and misunderstanding. (exempt are the Aztecs who attempted to assist in the recording of their culture... though, I find the resources extremely interesting and still think it's worth the ponder)
I'm not sure that symbolic cannibalism took the place of entheogens, as the use of entheogens were present and used differently in some of the same cultures that you find European and self-recorded cannibalism. I find it much more likely that they did so to limit the ingestion of human flesh while retaining the spiritual and medical benefits of chowing down on a hunk of human and to ease in transition. Not to mention preservation of Jesus' cadaver itself!
As a side note, is there a fair comparison you think between the cannibalism of brains and zombies? Because cannibalism existed in terms of dining on brains, zombies coming to reclaim what's theirs? I've never looked into it, but, I'm sure there's a deep-seated belief buried in there somewhere.
Quote:
And that's a point where a religion stops being such, and becomes a political organisation. Unfortunately a lot of people cannot seem to accept that *gasp* organisations such as christianity, judaism and islam use their sway to affect political decisions in their favour, to the detriment of people not of that religion.
I agree, and it makes me 
-Zuxa
-------------------- :~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:{ * }:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~: All posts are made with only the intent to entertain myself and should ONLY be read with the understanding that they are FICTICIOUS. I do not warrant information I provide for use in illegal activity of any kind nor do I condone it for any reason. Furthermore, I am not, I have never, nor will I in the future, take ANY part in illegal activites.
Edited by Acinaxuz (10/28/07 02:51 PM)
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Silversoul]
#7569865 - 10/28/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Your original statement seemed to compare the harassment you claim to receive on this site from non-Christians with the harassment perpetuated by Christians in the social and legal systems.
Of course, you have made this claim before & have not yet produced any actual instances in which you have been harassed for your beliefs on this site, so this may be why you declined to respond to his question.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569879 - 10/28/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'm willing to harass anyone here. I believe in service.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Icelander]
#7569882 - 10/28/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That's very noble of you. God would approve.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569887 - 10/28/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe I'll win a noble peace prize.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Gods and religion are different and seperate. [Re: Veritas]
#7569909 - 10/28/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Veritas said: Your original statement seemed to compare the harassment you claim to receive on this site from non-Christians with the harassment perpetuated by Christians in the social and legal systems.
I made no such comparison. I addressed the quoted piece of text and that was it. Any inferences about me equivocating the two are entirely in the imagination of those reading my post.
Quote:
Of course, you have made this claim before & have not yet produced any actual instances in which you have been harassed for your beliefs on this site, so this may be why you declined to respond to his question.
He made a thread in this forum about something I had said in MR&P with no intention of opening it up for debate. When I refused to participate in his thread, I he baited me into it by name. When I told him I would not be playing his games, he continued harassing me until I got involved in the thread(shame on me for falling for one of his tricks). And once again, I did not decline to respond to a question here, because none was asked. He merely twisted my words as he tends to do often.
--------------------
|
|