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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
If Jesus suffered for our sins...
    #1089313 - 11/26/02 11:01 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

why does he get to go to heaven?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Phluck]
    #1089393 - 11/26/02 11:50 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

More importantly than wiping out our sins is wiping out our credit card debt...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Swami]
    #1089485 - 11/27/02 12:24 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

More importantly than wiping out our sins is wiping out our credit card debt...

I'd be willing to dub that a miracle.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1089488 - 11/27/02 12:26 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

ahhhhh good old Fight Club inspiration :wink:


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What?

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Phluck]
    #1089491 - 11/27/02 12:26 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

He didn't die for our sins.

He didn't go to heaven.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1089551 - 11/27/02 12:40 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

ahhhhh good old Fight Club inspiration

hehehe


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlineakyouser_oner
unclefuckerextrordinaire

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 546
Loc: standing in the shadows a...
Last seen: 21 years, 12 days
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1090432 - 11/27/02 07:17 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

whether or not he went to heaven we could debate all day, but he DID die for our sins. he believed in his deepest self that he did, and that's all that matters...


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-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~

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Offlineuser_exists
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 501
Last seen: 21 years, 27 days
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1090475 - 11/27/02 08:16 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Jesus didn't die

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: user_exists]
    #1090581 - 11/27/02 09:09 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

...because fictional characters cannot.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Phluck]
    #1090874 - 11/27/02 11:29 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Supposedly Jesus' substitutionary death by crucifixion was enough to act as a propitiation for our 'missing the mark'. This is a doctrine in some sects of the Christian faith. Others think that He actually went to hell as well. That act, according to those that believe it, was not a punishment for Him but for us. Hence, he got to go to heaven after paying the price for our sin which was His death and/or experiencing Hell.

Point of fact, since none of us were there to witness it we have to either rely on some authority for verification (dangerous in my point of view) or find a rational way to think it might be possible ( perhaps the best rational course) or we can dismiss it as a fairy tale for grownups.

Each of us makes a choice at some point.

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: ]
    #1090936 - 11/27/02 11:52 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

well even if we were there to witness his death, that still doesn't have much to do with whether or not he went to heaven or hell, and whether or not heaven and hell even exist.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Anonymous

Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1090945 - 11/27/02 11:58 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, that is true.


However, if I were to have witnessed the scenes in the New Testament including the Ascension I would believe without a doubt.

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OfflineEarth_Droid
Stranger
Registered: 04/19/02
Posts: 5,240
Last seen: 18 years, 18 hours
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Phluck]
    #1090949 - 11/27/02 12:00 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I like to make stories out of the metaphors in the bible for my own enjoyment. Perhaps dying for our sins is symbolic for death and rebirth. Perhaps everyone dies for their own sins, and gets reborn. Thus death and rebirth until they have learn all of lifes lessons, and are ready to end their suffering.

A "sin" is something which is not necessary.
George Gurdjieff

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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1091000 - 11/27/02 12:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

"he DID die for our sins"

How do you come to that concusion??? Every piece of literature I read said that Jesus' death wasn't his own idea - he didn't say "hey guys, you're all sinners so I'm going to have myself nailed to a cross". Instead Jesus's death had more to do with the fact that he insisted that he was the "son of God" and that people should put him above their existing leadership. The leadership didn't really care too much for that kind of talk.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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Offlineakyouser_oner
unclefuckerextrordinaire

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 546
Loc: standing in the shadows a...
Last seen: 21 years, 12 days
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1091033 - 11/27/02 12:37 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

well, it doesn't matter whose idea it was (i'm saying this for the benefit of those who don't believe in the god part of jesus' life). the point was that he willingly died for our sins (in his mind), and regardless of whether or not you believe that he has done that so we can live free from sin, the reason he allowed himself to live the lifestyle that he knew would eventually bring him ruin was to save us from it...


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-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~

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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1091039 - 11/27/02 12:39 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Gotcha.  Fair enough!  :laugh: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1091078 - 11/27/02 12:57 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

As anguish is caused by attachment to wordly things then if was truly a Buddha, he didn't suffer.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePhluck
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1091251 - 11/27/02 02:11 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

You know all those suicide bombers?

They're dying for the good of muslims everywhere, and they aren't even being rounded up nailed to crosses, their doing it themselves. They get to go to heaven too.

I'd suffer a few days of horrible tormenting anguish in hell if it means that I get to spend eternity in peaceful harmonic pleasure.

The assholes on Survivor are doing it too.

"If I make it to the end of this shitty ordeal, I get to spend the rest of my years livin' large."


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Offlineakyouser_oner
unclefuckerextrordinaire

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 546
Loc: standing in the shadows a...
Last seen: 21 years, 12 days
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Phluck]
    #1091382 - 11/27/02 02:59 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

1) i made it a point not to bring god or heaven into my posts
2) i did not condone nor disapprove of jesus' actions. i was merely pointing out facts (under the assumption that jesus did actually exist)


--------------------
-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1091387 - 11/27/02 03:01 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately its not a fact that he died for our sins.

He died because he pissed off the government.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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