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Offlineakyouser_oner
unclefuckerextrordinaire

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 546
Loc: standing in the shadows a...
Last seen: 20 years, 7 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1091427 - 11/27/02 03:14 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

yes, the government killed him because he pissed them off. but jesus knew most of his life that this was to be the end result of his teaching, and that we would eventually be killed... he therefore chose to follow that path and chose to die for our sins


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-akyouser.oner
<(((((((((((((((@~~~

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1091447 - 11/27/02 03:20 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I'll die for my OWN sins, thank you very much. :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: akyouser_oner]
    #1091519 - 11/27/02 03:55 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Which of course, explains why he asked when dying, why God forsake him.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1091716 - 11/27/02 05:36 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Do you also make up false direction for lost travellers when you don't know the answer to their questions?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1091736 - 11/27/02 05:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Spiritual understanding of Biblical narrative undergirds the surface features. If Jesus became the 'Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world,' according to Jewish midrash, then Jesus had to die in a sacrificial manner as the unblemished sacrificial victim. There is theological [theo - logical] meaning in every aspect of scriptural narrative, whether the narrative is historically accurate [unlikely] or not.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Swami]
    #1091764 - 11/27/02 05:53 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?..." This quotation attributed to Y'shua - "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?..." (KJV) is the first line of the 22nd Psalm. So, Y'shua was in prayer, and the expression of His experience of utter abandonment to His mortal nature was completely 'on the mark,' with this choice of words. Transcendental prayer in the midst of existential anguish.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1091786 - 11/27/02 06:04 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Why would I give travellers false directions? I tell them "hey sorry man I don't know"

Just because somebody thinks they're dying for everybody's sins, whatever that means, doesn't make it fact.

If i think your eyes are red, does that make your eyes actually red?


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1092082 - 11/27/02 07:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

The point is: If you don't understand the question - don't give an answer. You gave an answer, but you clearly do not understand the question [re: the meaning of the death of Jesus according to the tenets of Christianity].


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1092101 - 11/27/02 07:53 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

"according to the tenets of Christianity"

I don't see that anywhere in the original post.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 928
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1092125 - 11/27/02 08:03 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

hi markos
could you tell me a little more about the deeper implications of this moment when christ's faith broke - 'my god, why hast thou forsaken me?'
are we all taken to such a point on a personal level, in a macro/microcosmic sense?
is this what is sometimes termed 'the long, dark night of the soul'?
thanks

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: mr crisper]
    #1092131 - 11/27/02 08:05 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe the moral of the story is don't fall for God or you will die a horrible death and wonder why God didn't save you, then when it really counts god will say "hehe dude you brought this on yourself"


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1092216 - 11/27/02 08:31 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I always wondered, if he was the son of god and he knew he was going to heaven, tehn suffereing and dying for us isnt really that big a deal.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1092552 - 11/27/02 10:31 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Put whatever spin you want on the quote. It sounds NO DIFFERENT than what any of us in terror for his mortal life might utter.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineGoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK

Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Swami]
    #1095340 - 11/29/02 01:15 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

"Which of course, explains why he asked when dying, why God forsake him."

Wow, great point. Sounds like he WASN'T expecting to die.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
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Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Strumpling]
    #1097433 - 11/29/02 11:37 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

but it is a fact that he existed... any historian will tell you... just the debate is is he a nut or a messiah?


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Offline3eyedgod
trippinkid

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 684
Loc: Far away and very near
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1097466 - 11/29/02 11:52 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

I do not beleive in Christianity but the bible makes for interesting reading. The only difference between Jesus and your modern day cult leader that i can see is that Jesus created a cult/religion that eventually came to dominate the globe. Also I remember some verse or another from Matthew in the new testament you might find interesting. The story(a parable told by Jesus) goes like this a farmer(god) plants his crops(good people) one day and at night an enemy(devil) plants weeds(bad people) in the field. When the crops and weeds sprout the farmer is going to pick them out but god tells him to leave them because it would be too hard to seperate the weeds from the crops and some crops may be harmed. He said when the time for the harvest comes the crops will be picked(by the angels) and put in the barn(heaven) and the weeds shall be picked and thrown in the fire(hell). **everything in parenthesis is an explanation of the parable as offered by a book i read on the new testament** According to that verse you really have no choice of wether your good or bad. No choice in wether or not your going to heaven or hell.


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1097738 - 11/30/02 02:14 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

but it is a fact that he existed...

Not necessarily. Some believe him to be a conglomerate figure composed of bit and pieces of real men and myth. A recent tome of some 500 or 600 pages makes a very strong case against his existence. Wish I had the title handy... (check Amazon.com - was written by a female author with strong academic credentials)


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Swami]
    #1097786 - 11/30/02 02:35 AM (21 years, 3 months ago)

The coolest idea I heard was that the entire bible was composed as a story or a play :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Swami]
    #1098367 - 11/30/02 12:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Of course it sounds no different. That's the point. Jesus had to die, as prophesied. The Qu'ran contradicted this account, insisting that a prophet of God could not die a shameful death, so He either A) didn't have a physical body (which is the heresy of docetism), or B) someone was substituted for Jesus. Jesus was "fully human," and, as Christian theology made othodox doctrine, "fully Divine," which is the portion of the formula which is known by faith. Assuming the man existed, the first portion is not debatable, except by certain Gnostics and other Docetists.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: If Jesus suffered for our sins... [Re: Swami]
    #1098456 - 11/30/02 01:24 PM (21 years, 3 months ago)

Wish I had the title handy... (check Amazon.com - was written by a female author with strong academic credentials)
Not trying to put words in your mouth here Swami, but i "think" this might be the book to which you are referring:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm


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"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"


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