fivepointer said:

Many posters have asserted that salvation can happen without belief of the gospel. There is no scripture that will support this notion, but a great many scriptures clearly state that no one is saved apart from conversion and faith.

I want to clarify something, conversion and faith are NOT causes of salvation, they are evidences of salvation. The cause of salvation is the work of Jesus Christ to justify His people, all those who where given to Him by the Father from before the foundation of the world, He gives every spiritual blessing to them, washes them in His own blood, and presents them without blemish in love. Grace is not based on what a person does, it is despite what a person does. Those who would condition salvation on what someone does are not justified by grace, they are seeking justification through the works of the law, and no flesh is ever justified by works of the law. They are attempting to establish righteousness outside of Jesus Christ, and are ignorant of God's righteousness. This is not a minor detail, this is the foundation of most false gospels that rear their ugly heads in Christendom.

Sin is a breakage of the law, sin can only break a person, expose wickedness, and expose the true nature of a fallen man. All those who are thirsting for righteousness, heavy burdened with sin, who are shown that they are wretched, broke and broken, (the Spirit convicts His people of sin, righteousness and judgement), will be delivered, and drink of the everlasting fountain, and be called to eat without money or price. Salvation is by glorious free grace to completely hell deserving sinners.

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fivepointer said:

Many posters have asserted that salvation can happen without belief of the gospel. There is no scripture that will support this notion, but a great many scriptures clearly state that no one is saved apart from conversion and faith.

There he goes, assuming that everyone on the planet holds and/or must hold "The Bible" and "sacred scripture" in high regard.

The objection was from self-proclaimed "Christians" that salvation can happen without faith.  Therefore it is proper to assume that they have some scriptural backing for such a position, which they do not.  Sure the world does not value scripture, but true Christians always value it to the highest degree.

Why should anyone care about what the Bible says, really?

Because God wrote it, you should care what it says.

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How do you know God wrote it?  Because the Bible says so?  What if you don't care about the Bible?  What if you don't care about GOD?  Why should a human care about God anyway?  Are you supposed to put your absolute trust into a single book "because it says so?" 

Why would you do something a book tells you to do?  Why would you get so obsessed over OBEYING a BOOK just because some of its authors claimed that god wrote it?  What makes them more believable then someone else?  Anyone can claim that GOD speaks to them and then write a story about it.  Why do you trust a book written by human beings when you could simply look for the answers yourself? 

Isn't that a little silly to do something a book tells you to do?  Where's the joy in doing something "because the Bible tells me to do it?"  Isn't it better to look at every situation with fresh eyes, try to draw unbiased conclusions from it?  Instead you wring everything through your Bible filter.  We all have filters, but I rely on my own personal experiences rather then having a book tell me what to do. 

I have never understood the weird fixation Christians have for the Bible.    It's just a book.  It sits on my shelf next to Be Here Now, a book about druids, and the Tao Te Ching.  The teachings inside are not confined by the pages, but can be experienced every day. So what's the big deal about the Bible, anyway?  Why should anyone care about a book?  It claims it was written by God?  Big deal, the author obviously had a huge ego. 

To be honest, I wish I'd written the Bible myself.  Controversey makes for a good story.  I did once have a goal to write the 'second Bible' and have a religion formed around my story, but I thought that idea was a little optimistic. 

And I realized, well, it's already been done, so it's clearly not impossible.

fivepointer said:

No experience of a Christian will ever be contrary to the scriptures.

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Scripture contradicts itself, and thus parts of the faith do as well.

For instance, most Christians I know are against the use of psychedelics, eating mushrooms for instance. They say it is against God's rules.
But in Matthew 15:11, Jesus says, "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."
Some would say I am taking that verse out of context, but Christians do that sort of thing all the time 

Huehuecoyotl said:

I often find your interpretations of Christianity to be quite intellectually palatable. I have been surrounded by fundamentalists too long.

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fivepointer said:

How do you know God wrote it? Because the Bible says so?

Because the Holy Spirit has revealed it to me, and every believer, this is the gift of faith that He gives His people. And the scriptures do assert that God the Holy Spirit did indeed write it, and it is the Word of God.

What if you don't care about the Bible? What if you don't care about GOD?

This is evidence of being unregenerated. If this continues until you die, or until Christ should return, you will face the law without mercy, and righteous judgement will be applied, the result is everlasting punishment under the wrath of God.

Why should a human care about God anyway?

God created all things, the universe, and humans, and things unseen, so I think you should care about God.

Are you supposed to put your absolute trust into a single book "because it says so?

Not the books of men, but you should absolutely trust in a book that was written by the Creator.

To be honest, I wish I'd written the Bible myself. Controversey makes for a good story. I did once have a goal to write the 'second Bible' and have a religion formed around my story, but I thought that idea was a little optimistic.
And I realized, well, it's already been done, so it's clearly not impossible.

One man could not have written it, it took many men about 1500 years to write it, and it has pure message throughout it, because God the Holy Spirit wrote it through these men. Not only that but God preserves it by Divine providence.

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Quote:

One reason why a Christian would not use psychedelics is because they are illegal, and scripture tells Christians not to be disobedient to those who rule over them. (As long as the rule does not force Christians to be disobedient to God.)

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